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US Rejected Aid for Israeli Raid on Iranian Nuclear Site

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Looks like even this was too much for W.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/washington/11iran.html?_r=1&hp=&pagewanted=all

President Bush deflected a secret request by Israel last year for specialized bunker-busting bombs it wanted for an attack on Iran’s main nuclear complex and told the Israelis that he had authorized new covert action intended to sabotage Iran’s suspected effort to develop nuclear weapons, according to senior American and foreign officials.

White House officials never conclusively determined whether Israel had decided to go ahead with the strike before the United States protested, or whether Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel was trying to goad the White House into more decisive action before Mr. Bush left office. But the Bush administration was particularly alarmed by an Israeli request to fly over Iraq to reach Iran’s major nuclear complex at Natanz, where the country’s only known uranium enrichment plant is located.

The White House denied that request outright, American officials said, and the Israelis backed off their plans, at least temporarily.


The interviews also indicate that Mr. Bush was convinced by top administration officials, led by Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates, that any overt attack on Iran would probably prove ineffective, lead to the expulsion of international inspectors and drive Iran’s nuclear effort further out of view. Mr. Bush and his aides also discussed the possibility that an airstrike could ignite a broad Middle East war in which America’s 140,000 troops in Iraq would inevitably become involved.

Instead, Mr. Bush embraced more intensive covert operations actions aimed at Iran, the interviews show, having concluded that the sanctions imposed by the United States and its allies were failing to slow the uranium enrichment efforts. Those covert operations, and the question of whether Israel will settle for something less than a conventional attack on Iran, pose immediate and wrenching decisions for Mr. Obama.

Early in 2008, the Israeli government signaled that it might be preparing to take matters into its own hands. In a series of meetings, Israeli officials asked Washington for a new generation of powerful bunker-busters, far more capable of blowing up a deep underground plant than anything in Israel’s arsenal of conventional weapons. They asked for refueling equipment that would allow their aircraft to reach Iran and return to Israel. And they asked for the right to fly over Iraq.

Mr. Bush deflected the first two requests, pushing the issue off, but “we said ‘hell no’ to the overflights,” one of his top aides said. At the White House and the Pentagon, there was widespread concern that a political uproar in Iraq about the use of its American-controlled airspace could result in the expulsion of American forces from the country.

The Israeli ambassador to the United States, Sallai Meridor, declined several requests over the past four weeks to be interviewed about Israel’s efforts to obtain the weapons from Washington, saying through aides that he was too busy.

Last June, the Israelis conducted an exercise over the Mediterranean Sea that appeared to be a dry run for an attack on the enrichment plant at Natanz. When the exercise was analyzed at the Pentagon, officials concluded that the distances flown almost exactly equaled the distance between Israel and the Iranian nuclear site.

“This really spooked a lot of people,” one White House official said. White House officials discussed the possibility that the Israelis would fly over Iraq without American permission. In that case, would the American military be ordered to shoot them down? If the United States did not interfere to stop an Israeli attack, would the Bush administration be accused of being complicit in it?


Admiral Mullen, traveling to Israel in early July on a previously scheduled trip, questioned Israeli officials about their intentions. His Israeli counterpart, Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi, argued that an aerial attack could set Iran’s program back by two or three years, according to officials familiar with the exchange. The American estimates at the time were far more conservative.

Yet by the time Admiral Mullen made his visit, Israeli officials appear to have concluded that without American help, they were not yet capable of hitting the site effectively enough to strike a decisive blow against the Iranian program.

The United States did give Israel one item on its shopping list: high-powered radar, called the X-Band, to detect any Iranian missile launchings. It was the only element in the Israeli request that could be used solely for defense, not offense.

Mr. Gates’s spokesman, Geoff Morrell, said last week that Mr. Gates — whom Mr. Obama is retaining as defense secretary — believed that “a potential strike on the Iranian facilities is not something that we or anyone else should be pursuing at this time.”

Flying over Iraqi airspace to bomb Iran nuclear sites. Sounds like a plan! :lol
 

Tamanon

Banned
Thank the Lord. I wonder if shooting down this possibility is what convinced Israel to go into Gaza instead as a show of military force before the election.
 
US should just go neutral on Israel and stop supporting them financially
if anyone wants to support them they should do it privately and not via tax payer dollars
 

DECK'ARD

The Amiga Brotherhood
Bush really is GAGGING to be involved with bombing another country isn't he!

Not much time left George!

But Isarel is doing all they can to help you out ...
 
While I hate Bush, it's refreshing to see the US step up and deny Israel one of it's insane military demands, regardless of the selfish motivations.
 

Forsete

Member
Nash said:
Bush really is GAGGING to be involved with bombing another country isn't he!

Not much time left George!

But Isarel is doing all they can to help you out ...

I bet they will be sorry to see him leave. Hopefully Obama will have a more sober relationship with Israel.
 

Ripclawe

Banned
told the Israelis that he had authorized new covert action intended to sabotage Iran’s suspected effort to develop nuclear weapons, according to senior American and foreign officials.

This jives with the Dutch spies having to stop their sabotage efforts of Iran's nuke program. As long as something is being done I am fine with it. If Israel going to attack, it would have to be a one and done.
 

Archer

Member
gutter_trash said:
if anyone wants to support them they should do it privately and not via tax payer dollars

There's plenty of that going on too.

I have to say that I'm around a lot of Persians in my day to day work. I find them to be some of the most distinguished, refined and honorable people I've met. I hope that people don't judge the nation of Iran in the same fashion as their government. They are as far from Arabs as the Japanese, and they want you to know it.

Hopefully this is merely extended posturing.
 
Israel: "Hey, would you mind if we used Iraqi airspace to fly our jetplanes through so we can pulverize a suspected Iranian nuclear site?"

George W Bush: Sorry..
 

phalestine

aka iby.h
Archer said:
There's plenty of that going on too.

I have to say that I'm around a lot of Persians in my day to day work. I find them to be some of the most distinguished, refined and honorable people I've met. I hope that people don't judge the nation of Iran in the same fashion as their government. They are as far from Arabs as the Japanese, and they want you to know it.

Hopefully this is merely extended posturing.

Wat? what does that have to do with anything.
 

grandjedi6

Master of the Google Search
Israel is like a little brother you're babysitting and everytime you turn your back they end up setting the house of fire. Or perhaps a better comparison would be a spoiler daughter :/
 

Rur0ni

Member
grandjedi6 said:
Israel is like a little brother you're babysitting and everytime you turn your back they end up setting the house of fire. Or perhaps a better comparison would be a spoiler daughter :/
592360_8ca5f7f005.jpg
 

neight

Banned
JCX9 said:
Why is America supposed to love Israel so much?
Sympathy from all the anti-semitic persecution of Europe + lots of high class Jews.

Edit: also supporting a democratic state surrounded by autocratic ones.
 

zon

Member
Archer said:
There's plenty of that going on too.

I have to say that I'm around a lot of Persians in my day to day work. I find them to be some of the most distinguished, refined and honorable people I've met. I hope that people don't judge the nation of Iran in the same fashion as their government. They are as far from Arabs as the Japanese, and they want you to know it.

Hopefully this is merely extended posturing.

I have had the same experience basically. But the way I understand it is that the majority of the sensible ones fled Iran when the current goverment took over, so there is a good chunk who are just like their goverment.
 

Shawn

Banned
JCX9 said:
Why is America supposed to love Israel so much?
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
JCX9 said:
Why is America supposed to love Israel so much?

A lot of fundamentalist Christians believe that in order for the "end times"/Revelations stuff to come true, the state of Israel must exist. For these people, they really don't care about the people in Israel, because if I recall part of the end times is for God to judge/kill the Jews.

If you want more details, just flip on the History Channel. They seem to alternate between Revelations and Nostradamus every night. Oh, don't forget UFOs and Hauntings and other nonsense to get people to watch ads.
 

zon

Member
Shawn said:
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.

And here I thought you were being sarcastic, and then you make that dumbshit edit.
 

Weenerz

Banned
Shawn said:
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.

So what you're saying is, if you don't love us, you're an anti-semite?
 

Hootie

Member
Shawn said:
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.

8vvkog.jpg
 

TDG

Banned
Shawn said:
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.
I need to get something off my chest: From reading many of your posts relating to Israel, I've come to the conclusion that you are batshit fucking insane. The way you think about Israel is actually above the level of craziness that many on the Gaming side show for their consoles. You have one advantage over them, which is that you have irrational opinions on matters relating to something that is not a piece of plastic. On the other hand, you believe that entire countries of people should be killed for not liking Israel and that anyone who disagrees hates all Jewish people. You also believe that anyone who doesn't 100% support Israel is immoral and irrational. So you win the insanity battle.

And that's all I have to say about that.
 
Shawn said:
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.

How is it anti-semitic? There is a difference between anti-semitism, anti-zionism, and being against the actions of the Israeli government.
 

Hootie

Member
Jonm1010 said:
Alright this is bothering and is completely off topic, but where the hell is that image from, i know i have seen it before?

I'm pretty sure it's from Chappelle's Show, but I don't know which episode.
 

Hootie

Member
Souldriver said:
Is he the guy who starts threads because he has the uncontrollable urge to kill people?

Yeah he's the 31 year old dude who has never kissed a girl or held a girl's hand before :lol
 

Gallbaro

Banned
JCX9 said:
Why is America supposed to love Israel so much?

Originally it was a state created to be a western friendly state in a very soviet friendly area, with crucial shipping routes and of course oil.


Now it is really because a bunch of fucking people who think Obama is the anti christ cannot wait for the end of the world.

Jews control all media and banking
 
JCX9 said:
Why is America supposed to love Israel so much?

Well, according to a Glenn Greenwald (Salon.com columnist) piece I read a few weeks back, there is a pretty big disconnect on Americans attitude towards Israel (in general, not just as of late) between our top government officials and the regular joe schmoe.

George Washington's warnings and U.S. policy towards Israel -- Glenn Greenwald | Salon.com (more at link)
Tuesday Dec. 30, 2008 05:33 EST
University of Maryland's Program on International Policy Attitudes -- July 1, 2008:
A new WorldPublicOpinion.org poll of 18 countries finds that in 14 of them people mostly say their government should not take sides in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Just three countries favor taking the Palestinian side (Egypt, Iran, and Turkey) and one is divided (India). No country favors taking Israel's side, including the United States, where 71 percent favor taking neither side.

CQ Politics, yesterday:
Congressional leaders on both sides of the aisle rallied to Israel’s cause Monday as it pressed forward with large-scale air attacks against Islamic militants in the Gaza Strip. . . .

“I strongly support Israel’s right to defend its citizens against rocket and mortar attacks from Hamas-controlled Gaza, which have killed and injured Israeli citizens, and to restore security to its residents,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid , D-Nev. . . .

His view was echoed by leaders of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

“Israel has a right, indeed a duty, to defend itself in response to the hundreds of rockets and mortars fired from Gaza over the past week,” Howard L. Berman , D-Calif., chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a statement.

Ileana Ros-Lehtinen of Florida, the ranking Republican on the House committee, also expressed support for the Israeli offensive. . . .

The White House on Monday also took Israel’s side in the fighting, demanding that Hamas halt its rocket fire into Israel and agree to a last ceasefire.
 

LuCkymoON

Banned
Shawn said:
What kind of question is that? Those sound like the words coming from the mouth of an anti-Semite.

Edit:
Eh, f*ck the nuclear sites: the United States and Israel should just go all the way and wipe Iran off the map.
Why do you even still post here?
 

Loki

Count of Concision
JCX9 said:
Why is America supposed to love Israel so much?

AIPAC is the reason why US support of Israel is so strong. It's a sad situation, really.

If you talk to the average American, it's clear that they favor a more even-handed or hands-off approach, not the pro-Israel-at-all-costs stance espoused by our politicians. Personally, I don't care either way about Israel -- I don't know them and I have no dealings with Israelis, just as I don't with the French or Chinese. I'm of the mind, like George Washington was, that nations should not entangle themselves in one another's affairs, lest we be answerable for another nation's actions. I'm an isolationist save for clear instances of aggression (WW2, for example). Here's a snippet from Washington's farewell address:

George Washington said:
"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities."
 
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