Support NeoGAF

[Pelta88]

Aug 9 (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday dealt a setback to Epic Games, maker of the popular video game "Fortnite," in its legal battle against Apple (AAPL.O), declining to let a federal judge's injunction take effect that could force the iPhone maker to change payment practices in its lucrative App Store.

Liberal Justice Elena Kagan, acting for the Supreme Court, denied Epic's request to lift a decision by the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that effectively delayed implementing an injunction issued by U.S. District Judge Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers barring certain App Store rules, while Apple pursues a Supreme Court appeal.

The 9th Circuit in April had upheld the injunction but in July put that decision on hold. Kagan handles emergency matters for the Supreme Court arising from a group of states including California.

Click to expand...

US Supreme Court refuses Epic bid to let App Store order take effect in Apple case

The U.S. Supreme Court on Wednesday dealt a setback to Epic Games, maker of the popular video game "Fortnite," in its legal battle against Apple , declining to let a federal judge's injunction take effect that could force the iPhone maker to change payment practices in its lucrative App Store.

www.reuters.com

Huge implications for the "walled garden" approach.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Fortnite should have been like this, 'Fortnite' not "Fortnite"

 

[Brock2621]

Eh, it’s not the only place to play Fortnite, and I suppose Epic is welcome to make their own phone with an App Store and give it away if they don’t like the fees.

 

[Puscifer]

Eh, it’s not the only place to play Fortnite, and I suppose Epic is welcome to make their own phone with an App Store and give it away if they don’t like the fees.

They all come crawling back to steam/etc when they see the cost of infrastructure that'll make any additional profit mute. Bandwidth per gb piss cheap, the cost of maintaining it is not.

 

[diffusionx]

Apple's been beating Epic like a rented mule for years, it's just embarrassing at this point.

 

[DelayTheSun]

Can we please find a way for both of these companies to lose?

 

[DeepEnigma]

If Apple loses, there is a good chance this has ramifications in the console space as well.

Part of me thinks this is Tencent influenced.

 

[ReBurn]

They all come crawling back to steam when they see the cost of infrastructure that basically makes any additional profit mute. Bandwidth per gb piss cheap, the cost of maintaining it IS NOT

I'm a fan of letting third party stores figure this out in the name of options for consumers.

 

[SmokedMeat]

Good ‘ol Timmy Tencent. Loves to preach about open competition, while spending money to prevent competition in the PC marketplace.

 

[ReBurn]

If Apple loses, there is a good chance this has ramifications in the console space as well.

Part of me thinks this is Tencent influenced.

I think you're right. It opens the door to letting people use devices they purchased in ways the company that made them don't want to have them used. It could decimate a console revenue model that depends on these commissions.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I think you're right. It opens the door to letting people use devices they purchased in ways the company that made them don't want to have them used. It could decimate a console revenue model that depends on these commissions.

That would cripple the console industry as we know it. Don't expect such high R&D investments to be made, if so.

 

[Thirty7ven]

If Apple loses, there is a good chance this has ramifications in the console space as well.

Part of me thinks this is Tencent influenced.

Doubt it, doesn’t Epic’s whole case hinge on general purpose definition?

MS joined the case for a reason. Consoles aren’t included.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Doubt it, doesn’t Epic’s whole case hinge on general purpose definition?

MS joined the case for a reason. Consoles aren’t included.

IDK, look at MS's shift.

They are not included in this case, but that's not to say it won't open up a floodgate if said case law is established with "device maker making their own storefront walled garden."

 

[ReBurn]

That would cripple the console industry as we know it. Don't expect such high R&D investments to be made, if so.

Correct. Console platforms probably only generate enough revenue from first party games to pay for the creation of those games. They need that third-party revenue share to pay for all of the infrastructure to make it go.

I think that the issue with Apple is a bit different from consoles, though. Mainly because how the devices are marketed are distributed.

 

[Pelta88]

If Apple loses, there is a good chance this has ramifications in the console space as well.

Part of me thinks this is Tencent influenced.

It's actually Microsoft influenced. They've taken a backseat for now but they want in on apple's walled garden.

They were a key part of the litigation.

 

[DeepEnigma]

It's actually Microsoft influenced. They've taken a backseat for now but they want in on apple's walled garden.

They were a key part of the litigation.

I get that, and if you notice, they seem to be shying away from consoles as well with PR and marketing since the Phil Spencer "woe is me" 11/10 comments.

"No console needed" with their Starfield/Samsung marketing.

They would love their Netflix of Gaming™ service on all devices without walled gardens.

 

[Skifi28]

Going after the hand that feeds you was the wrong move. Say what you want about walled gardens, they still give app developers access to the wallets of their millions of users and paying for the infrastructure to make it all work seamlessly.

 

[Warablo]

I am sure everyone wants the walled gardens to come down unless its you're own walled garden.

 

[Puscifer]

I'm a fan of letting third party stores figure this out in the name of options for consumers.

True, but I have to say as of now Google, Apple and Steam are doing lots of work for these companies they don't have to worry about. And so far haven't done anything to show they're malicious, Valve even reduced fees after a certain dollar amount.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

One more reason to own an iPhone. F*ck Epic!

 

[Pelta88]

I get that, and if you notice, they seem to be shying away from consoles as well with PR and marketing since the Phil Spencer "woe is me" 11/10 comments.

"No console needed" with their Starfield/Samsung marketing.

They would love their Netflix of Gaming™ service on all devices without walled gardens.

I do think the marketing was more a Samsung thing that in was XBOX since Samsung is promoting their service which XBOX is apart of. That said, XBOX revealed how much they despise Apple's walled garden. I think that plays into their bid for Acti when they realised revenue/profit from Apple was a non factor.

I am sure everyone wants the walled gardens to come down unless its you're own walled garden.

Apple said the same thing in court lol. Profit sharing beyond the traditional platform/pub split isn't something they were interested in. They protected their profits at all costs.

One more reason to own an iPhone. F*ck Epic!

What did Epic do?

 

[ReBurn]

True, but I have to say as of now Google, Apple and Steam are doing lots of work for these people they don't have to worry about and so far haven't done anything to show they're malicious, valve even reduced fees after a certain dollar amount.

I don't know about that for Apple. Their approach to the walled garden is much less consumer friendly than Google or Valve. Apple will not only delist apps you paid for and not let you download them again, they will prevent you from running those apps on your device even if they're already installed. Like when Apple made the decision to eliminate 32-bit apps. Even though my 32-bit apps ran just fine Apple killed them for "performance" reasons, which was to make sure that my device met their marketing claims. I should be able to decide if I want to drain my battery with a 32-bit app. But no, I just can't have it any more and I don't get my money back.

 

[Azelover]

Just the mention of "App Store" makes me wanna vomit.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

One more reason to own an iPhone.

 

[violence]

I think Epic got way too much confidence in their lawyers after the utter steamroll of Silicon Knights.

 

[flying_sq]

Weirdly enough, I am down the street from their HQ in North Carolina right now.

 

[LordCBH]

Tim Sweeney crying right now probably.

 

[Horatius]

so they haven't lost their actual case, they just got denied the ability to apply the junction during the course of the appeal instead of after the case is decided? no biggie really, wait for the actual case

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Good ‘ol Timmy Tencent. Loves to preach about open competition, while spending money to prevent competition in the PC marketplace.

He's just a stooge for China. Chairman Pooh has been trying to break the power of American tech companies for years now.

 

[twilo99]

I don’t understand how Apple is getting away with their App Store at this point and their whole platform control in general.

Imagine if Microsoft applied the same strategy to Windows where you can’t have steam and you have to go through the ms store ..

It’s not like iOS doesn’t have a large enough install base compared to windows at this point

 

[Gojiira]

It's actually Microsoft influenced. They've taken a backseat for now but they want in on apple's walled garden.

They were a key part of the litigation.

Typical Microsoft feeling entitled to everything. Competition making money? Gotta fucking get a piece! Or the whole thing.
Honestly Im with Apple on this one, its their proprietary hardware, their proprietary software, their own tech, their own storefront and just like any other form of retail it costs to sell products over it…

 

[Robb]

Can’t say I care much for either company, but the way Epic just started this whole process was the most petty thing I’ve seen. They deserve to get obliterated.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Apple might win this battle in the US, but they are losing the war worldwide.
They will have no choice but to adapt once the EU´s DMA and DSA come into effect!

 

[Negotiator101]

Weirdly enough, I am down the street from their HQ in North Carolina right now.

Go on?

 

[ScHlAuChi]

Good ‘ol Timmy Tencent. Loves to preach about open competition,

It might surprise you, but every game developer out there supports Epic in winning against Apple.
No one cares that you have a hate boner for Tim Sweeney.

while spending money to prevent competition in the PC marketplace.

Not a very smart person, are you?
How is it preventing competition when the games are releasing on the SAME platform?

 

[Goalus]

Typical Microsoft feeling entitled to everything. Competition making money? Gotta fucking get a piece! Or the whole thing.
Honestly Im with Apple on this one, its their proprietary hardware, their proprietary software, their own tech, their own storefront and just like any other form of retail it costs to sell products over it…

Microsoft should establish similar rules on Windows then that all storefronts have to pay 30% of their revenue to MS. It is their platform after all.

 

[thekillergreece]

No one cares about Epic, most if not every developer is avoiding it like a cancer. They get better profits in other platforms, particularly Steam, than the Epic shithole place.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I think there’s a place in the market for the curated garden that is Apple and the free for all that is android.

In reality, Apple represents the smaller market share compared to android.

 

[Kdad]

If Apple loses, there is a good chance this has ramifications in the console space as well.

Part of me thinks this is Tencent influenced.

100% it is...EPIC is Tencent's Trojan Horse in the West.

 

[Kdad]

I don’t understand how Apple is getting away with their App Store at this point and their whole platform control in general.

Imagine if Microsoft applied the same strategy to Windows where you can’t have steam and you have to go through the ms store ..

It’s not like iOS doesn’t have a large enough install base compared to windows at this point

They did try that with Windows RT and S. Just because the fail at execution doesn't mean they don't want to try.

 

[SmokedMeat]

It might surprise you, but every game developer out there supports Epic in winning against Apple.
No one cares that you have a hate boner for Tim Sweeney.


Not a very smart person, are you?
How is it preventing competition when the games are releasing on the SAME platform?

Yeah it’s just me with the hate boner. Not the entire PC gaming community sick of Epic’s bullshit as he’s been trying to buy his way into the market and failing miserably.

No one cares that you have a boner for Tencent and Timmy Epic.

 

[twilo99]

They did try that with Windows RT and S. Just because the fail at execution doesn't mean they don't want to try.

Everyone wants what Apple has, the question is how is Apple allowed to do that and no one else is..

 

[DeepEnigma]

Everyone wants what Apple has, the question is how is Apple allowed to do that and no one else is..

How are Apple the only ones allowed to do it?

 

[Kdad]

Everyone wants what Apple has, the question is how is Apple allowed to do that and no one else is..

Don't all the digital consoles currently do it?

 

[Elder Legend]

I hate Apple, I hate overpriced products and I hope they rot. Fuck em.

 

[twilo99]

Don't all the digital consoles currently do it?

Yes, but Apple has a general purpose operating system that runs on various form factors, which is similar to what Microsoft has with Windows.

Consoles are strictly gaming machines, although the Xbox does have a proper web browser which can mess with that concept a bit, it’s still used strictly for gaming.

Microsoft has to let 3rd party stores piggyback on their Windows install base for free, but Apple is allowed to ban such activity on their operating system for whatever reason..

 

[twilo99]

I hate Apple, I hate overpriced products and I hope they rot. Fuck em.

Hating the player is not good look, it’s the game you could potentially object to.

Apple is an amazing company with phenomenal engineering departments, management, and marketing. It’s the star product of a capitalistic society.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Yes, but Apple has a general purpose operating system that runs on various form factors, which is similar to what Microsoft has with Windows.

Consoles are strictly gaming machines, although the Xbox does have a proper web browser which can mess with that concept a bit, it’s still used strictly for gaming.

Microsoft has to let 3rd party stores piggyback on their Windows install base for free, but Apple is allowed to ban such activity on their operating system for whatever reason..

Apple's OS on their laptops and desktops allows for you to install programs or stores like the PC.

Their phone is no different than when Windows had a phone, or console makers have their consoles. Consoles also have apps to be considered a multimedia device.

Apple isn't even the market leader in cell phones, that is Android.

 

[Pelta88]

I hate Apple, I hate overpriced products and I hope they rot. Fuck em.

Damn

"Hate" is a strong word to use for a product or company.

 

[twilo99]

Apple's OS on their laptops and desktops allows for you to install programs or stores like the PC.

Their phone is no different than when Windows had a phone, or console makers have their consoles. Consoles also have apps to be considered a multimedia device.

Apple isn't even the market leader in cell phones, that is Android.

My question is why are mobile operating systems and desktop ones treated differently? Why can’t steam run their own store for free on iOS just as they can run that same store on Windows..