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[norm9]

From http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/education/2017/06/07/uwsp-student-asks-court-force-poetry-professor-give-her/357759001/

Donna Kikkert said she didn't think her poetry professor's reading selection served her needs as a "mainstream" student.

Kikkert, 59, who is pursuing a bachelor's degree at the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point, said she wanted to study the classics. When the professor of her Advanced Creative Writing Poetry course selected works other than those of Robert Frost, Edgar Allan Poe and others of interest to Kikkert, she said she asked faculty to reconsider the assignments to round out the studies.

The selected texts, Kikkert said in court records, focused on "lesbians, illicit sexual relationships, incest and frequent swearing." She asserts her complaints resulted in her earning an F in the course. Unable to persuade the university to raise her mark, Kikkert took Professor Patricia Dyjak to court, asking a judge to order her to assign Kikkert an A for the class.

In addition to an improved grade, Kikkert asked the court, at its discretion, to suspend Dyjak without pay for a year or fire her.

"I think professors need to incorporate having a sensitivity to what students would consider as wanting to learn," she said.

One more quote from the article-

She goes on to claim that her grade was "capricious retaliation" for raising concerns about the course content and about Dyjak's behavior — including an allegation that the professor exposed her breasts while showing the class a back-shoulder tattoo.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned in life: take that, snowflake!

Sue me if old.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

"I think professors need to incorporate having a sensitivity to what students would consider as wanting to learn," she said.

I like to spend thousands of dollars to have my bubble kept firmly in place. Learn new things and broaden my horizons? Fuck that.

What a moron.

 

[Maintenance]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I suck at poetry
But she does too

 

[GoldenEye 007]

I don't follow this. My first thought is that I assume during the add/drop period she would have likely been given a syllabus that outlines the course, schedule, and readings. If she objected to the books selected, she could have dropped the course and found another.

 

[ERotIC]

59 and going back to school to study poetry.


She's destined for great things.

 

[andymcc]

Bet she calls libs snowflakes.

 

[Sutton Dagger]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

 

[Maxinas]

I don't follow this. My first thought is that I assume during the add/drop period she would have likely been given a syllabus that outlines the course, schedule, and readings. If she objected to the books selected, she could have dropped the course and found another.

Thank god you said this. Every college class hands out a syllabus at the beginning of the course.

 

[F0rneus]

She sounds like a colossal imbecile.

 

[Makonero]

Advanced Creative anything is going to skip the classics mostly. I mean, it's about learning how to create modern works after all.

 

[Stinkles]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I suck at poetry
But she does too

(F)

 

[Grakl]

Damn millennials

Oh wait

 

[Stumpokapow]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

That's true in my experience as well.

 

[andymcc]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

i had an advanced poetry workshop class with a 50+ year old woman that actually complained to the prof after hours about one of my poems in particular for it using the F bomb and alluding to abortion.

Think about that.

Also, she wrote a poem about Obama being a muslim.

 

[EmiPrime]

Obligatory "sounds like she needs a safe space" joke.

 

[Lord Frieza]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

When I was in college, I saw a lot of the same. Maybe not those in their 40s, but definitely 50s and above. Seems like every literature or poetry or writing focused class I had with those types of students had those kind of students. It's weird.

 

[cromofo]

59 AND poetry?

That's something you don't hear every day.

 

[AlexFlame116]

Oh she's 59 eh? That explains a bit more.

 

[Lord Frieza]

59 AND poetry?

That's something you don't hear every day.

Odds are she's going for something else, but needed a creative arts credit or something and picked the 'easiest' one.

 

[PillarEN]

I guess this smug asshole was right.

Spoiler

(Simon Sinek who said that millennials got everything they wanted and that they only got into advanced courses cause their parents complained. Which of course is BS)

Edit: Oh wait. She's old. Nevermind then. Sinek stays losing.

 

[Jackpot]

This quote is rather more pertinent to the story:

A Portage County judge dismissed the case; Kikkert said she is mulling an appeal.

 

[Eye for an Eye]

The classics are lower division courses. And the classics aren't filled with sexual and lesbian content??!? I bet she never took those courses about early british lit.

 

[Amikami]

59 and going back to school to study poetry.


She's destined for great things.

Eh let's keep this relevant to the actual issues. Lots of people go back to school in their later years just to do something and achieve something they always wanted to. No need to talk about the potential of one who chooses to go back to school.


With that said, Lady's a total nutjob. When you take a class, you agree to the class, it's content, and what it takes to get an A.

 

[Silent Chief]

That's true in my experience as well.

There's no question that it works best when the professor is old and the student young.
I dread the day when I'll have a doctor younger than me.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

As an English major that took a few poetry classes, I felt the same way. Professor liked the new age shit while I wanted to read stuff like Frost. I wanted to try and write that kind of stuff too.

"rhyme and meter are old fashioned. No one uses them any more."

YEAH WELL YOU ARE STUPID AND A DOODYHEAD SIR

Fucker put his own book of poetry on the reading list. I fucking borrowed a copy and photocopied it. Pretentious twat that he was.

In the end I rolled with it though, wrote the stuff he wanted to hear, and got a good grade in the class. It's maybe one of the most important lessons I learned in college.

When I wrote poems for myself/blog, I play with meter and rhyme because that's what I like.

 

[norm9]

As an English major that took a few poetry classes, I felt the same way. Professor liked the new age shit while I wanted to read and study stuff like Frost.

"rhyme and meter are old fashioned. No one uses them any more."

YEAH WELL YOU ARE STUPID AND A DOODYHEAD SIR

Fucker put his own book of poetry on the reading list. I fucking borrowed a copy and photocopied it. Pretentious twat that he was.

In the end I rolled with it though, wrote the stuff he wanted to hear, and got a good grade in the class. It's maybe one of the most important lessons I learned in college.

But the article says you got an F?

 

[Nere]

59 years old isn't that weird in my history uni we had a lovely old lady who was around 65, after the death of her husband she was bored home alone and decided to study history to pass her time. People shouldn't mock students just because they are old, you never know why they came back to studying.

 

[Emperor_Uriel]

Please... please don't let her be a parent.

 

[PillarEN]

In the end I rolled with it though, wrote the stuff he wanted to hear, and got a good grade in the class. It's maybe one of the most important lessons I learned in college.

Yep yep. Especially if you can gauge the professors political leanings. It's like candy to them if you give them what they want to hear. Especially if they are very adamant about their point of view. Though I much more prefer the professors that like to hear things out and talk things over. Not to change them, but because the ideas then flow much more freely and cool professors know how to handle that instead of getting flustered. In fact they welcome it and like the challenge. But then I couldn't pander to them like a slimy little shit to get the easy grade haha.

 

[sirap]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

If there's one thing I hate about teaching, it's this. I used to do workshops for older 3D artists, teach them new software like Zbrush, Arnold, Substance and they'll always look down on me. I understand why they're hesitant to listen to someone half their age but damn, they signed up for this.

I'm going through the same thing with my writing group too. Most of them are middle age folks/retired expats and they can be extremely difficult in accepting new ideas.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Yep yep. Especially if you can gauge the professors political leanings. It's like candy to them if you give them what they want to hear. Especially if they are very adamant about their point of view. Though I much more prefer the professors that like to hear things out and talk things over. Not to change them, but because the ideas then flow much more freely and cool professors know how to handle that instead of getting flustered. In fact they welcome it and like the challenge. But then I couldn't pander to them like a slimy little shit to get the easy grade haha.

Yup. And it's not like I didn't have fun in the class. I wrote a poem about masturbating in the shower that he really liked because I did it in a way I knew he'd find thought provoking. It wasn't. It was about me jerking off in the shower, but hey, know your audience!

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Roses are red
Violets are blue
I suck at poetry
But she does too

Poe is for Kids
Frost is a hack
Check out this sweet
Tattoo on my back

 

[Fuchsdh]

59 years old isn't that weird in my history uni we had a lovely old lady who was around 65, after the death of her husband she was bored home alone and decided to study history to pass her time. People shouldn't mock students just because they are old, you never know why they came back to studying.

Yeah the old people in my classes were quite nice, got along better with some of them versus my peers.

In studio classes it sucked though, they all had nice tools and studios and we're broke freshman trying to make stuff with cardboard.

 

[JSoup]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

This.
It's especially true of stay at home parents and house wives/husbands who suddenly have time go to school. In my experience, so many years of being king/queen of the home makes for pretty insufferable students.

 

[Malvolio]

59 and going back to school to study poetry.


She's destined for great things.

Really? Out of all the things in the this article you choose to mock, the age of the student and course subject is what riles you up?

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Hickory Dickory Dock
Professor give me an A don't be such a cuck

 

[TAJ]

If there's one thing I hate about teaching, it's this. I used to do workshops for older 3D artists, teach them new software like Zbrush, Arnold, Substance and they'll always look down on me. I understand why they're hesitant to listen to someone half their age but damn, they signed up for this.

I'm going through the same thing with my writing group too. Most of them are middle age folks/retired expats and they can be extremely difficult in accepting new ideas.

Arnold is new? I remember that from the '90s.
It was the renderer for Messiah.

 

[dejay]

 

[iammeiam]

Kind of unrelated to the main case, but this in the article is kind of gross:

Greg Summers, UWSP's provost and vice chancellor for academic affairs, said the university takes academic freedom seriously because it should be a place where people are free to have honest discussions without the threat of repercussions. He said he believes the university's job is to teach people how to think, not what to think.
....
Summers declined to comment on the court case but said he was familiar with the potential for student disagreement, having taught courses on controversial topics. When he taught the history of climate change, for example, Summers said he focused on the cultural phenomenon, the politics and the economics of the issue rather than trying to convince students of any viewpoint.

"I knew that people probably had different views about the current politics of it, but I always made sure to frame things so that there was a chance for everybody to engage that material from whatever view they had," he said. "It didn't make me change how I taught it, necessarily."

I'm not sure teaching climate change history in a way that doesn't assume an acceptance of the fact of climate change is an actual good thing.

 

[watershed]

As an English major that took a few poetry classes, I felt the same way. Professor liked the new age shit while I wanted to read stuff like Frost. I wanted to try and write that kind of stuff too.

"rhyme and meter are old fashioned. No one uses them any more."

YEAH WELL YOU ARE STUPID AND A DOODYHEAD SIR

Fucker put his own book of poetry on the reading list. I fucking borrowed a copy and photocopied it. Pretentious twat that he was.

In the end I rolled with it though, wrote the stuff he wanted to hear, and got a good grade in the class. It's maybe one of the most important lessons I learned in college.

When I wrote poems for myself/blog, I play with meter and rhyme because that's what I like.

You couldn't find a class that taught the classics?

 

[Cocaloch]

Fucker put his own book of poetry on the reading list. I fucking borrowed a copy and photocopied it. Pretentious twat that he was..

Man, you showed him.

Honestly you come off a lot worse here than that professor did.

 

[hobozero]

"I think professors need to incorporate having a sensitivity to what students would consider as wanting to learn,"

I am gonna need a local grammar nazi to give that a once over. That sentence structure is hurting my brain. "what students would consider as wanting to learn" feels like some Yoda-speak bullshit. Could be wrong though; I never went to the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point.

 

[His Majesty]

Hickory Dickory Dock
Professor give me an A don't be such a cuck

doesn't rhyme
2/10

 

[Cocaloch]

"I think professors need to incorporate having a sensitivity to what students would consider as wanting to learn,"

I am gonna need a local grammar nazi to give that a once over. That sentence structure is hurting my brain. "what students would consider as wanting to learn" feels like some Yoda-speak bullshit. Could be wrong though; I never went to the University of Wisconsin-Stevens Point.

I mean it's obviously not standard English, but I think you probably understood what she meant.

 

[s_mirage]

I hate to stereotype but all of the older people (40+) who were in my classes at University were the most arrogant, narcissistic bunch of people I have ever met. They would constantly question the professor, not in the 'I have a something I don't understand way', but more like I'm right because I'm so experienced kind of way.

Yeah, I had the same experience. The only ~50 year old student I recall from my one of my modules kept trying to debate the lecturer on topics that were tangential to the class. He was eventually told to shut up or get out (not the exact words).

 

[Timedog]

The classics are lower division courses. And the classics aren't filled with sexual and lesbian content??!? I bet she never took those courses about early british lit.

She hasn't actually read the classics, she just thinks she knows what they're about kind of, and is suing over her idea of what they might be like.

 

[_Ryo_]

I came to read my book by the river
But the tea I sipped was bitter
Then a bolt pieced through my head
With an arrow coated all in lead
It was a book of fine poetry
Or was it a book of toiletry?
I guess I'll never know.

 

[ForkNetwork]

Professor, gimme a better grade
I swear that my poetrys good!
And its not that I cant obey...
Im just being misunderstood!

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

There is a very high (honestly, prob 100%) chance that the professor's reading list sucked, given the badness of the vast majority of contemporary poetry, but you have ample opportunity to drop classes that aren't meeting your needs. A lawsuit is ridiculous.

 

[Zeyphersan]

Fucking millennials. Wait.