VALVE fires DOTA tourney host, Gabe Newell calls the host "an ass" publicly on Reddit
- Thread starter Abilidebob
- Start date
This is just as much of a problem as James himself.
Gabe Newell is not some untouchable diety. The amount that people are willing throw their weight 100% behind him the moment he makes any comment as if he can't be wrong is insane.
James is an ass. I don't think anyone is going to dispute that. But he's also an ass who was trying his hardest to carry a fucking SHITSHOW of a production. He was going out of his way to keep the panel, and by extension the audience watching, entertained while dealing with multi hour delays and horrible production quality.
Also, people complaining about a british person using the word cunt, pretty much a common place equivalent of just saying fuck, get real. It's still probably inappropriate for a stream (if you subscribe to the idea that being professional means never swearing), but it's not a be-all end-all of "unprofessionalism".
Welfare
Member
2GD also recently replied to that thread
Lol what? If Valve, the company paying you, thinks you're an ass, then you are. Community response won't help you one bit.
Wow, that happened during this current event?
he banters alot
Sho_Nuff82
Member
But guys, why won't the sportscasters treat E-sports the same?
He called a player autistic among other things so its not really excusable for such a big tournament or any for that matter that wants to be seen as professional.
Robot Pants
Member
Uh huh so where's Hal- oh I don't even care anymore
The nationality of a person isn't taken under consideration when you're broadcasting to a different audience. If I went on a major broadcast and started my commentary with "Hello you cunts" and then got fired, I would be in the wrong.
LumpOfCole
Member
For the CEO of Valve to come out and say this after a full day of this blowing up as a big story on Social Media to come out and actually call the guy an ass means something extremely shitty must've happened behind the scenes.
Complicated
Banned
Sounds like an ass was hired to be an ass on camera and then the CEO of the company who hired him fired him and called him an ass on reddit. Valve definitely lost badly here on all fronts.
GrantDaNasty
Member
Oh I agree. Dude sounds like a Grade A jerk, but someone will try to contextualize it and make it seem less malicious or whatever.
I'm just trying to rationalize it in my post I guess.
Gabe can say what the fuck he wants, Valve's privately owned
...okay so
Sure you can be professional and funny, but not every personality has to be like that. I don't think he was fired for anything that happened on stream tbh. Valve 100% knew what they were getting when they hired him.
I also find it funny how he is now "just" a caster or a host. It's almost like Quake 4 never happened
Honestly I think it was just a case of Valve telling James several times: "Please keep the language for a family audience" and James accepting the checks and failing to obey
anyway Gabe saying this publicly means he deliberately wanted to end his career. RIP 2gd it was good knowing u
Quake 4 isn't real.
jediyoshi
Member
They didn't. That's a quote that comes with the reddit drama starter kit.
Given the internet, you would also be led to believe there exists 3 Merlinis.
MGHA
Member
Judging from internet algarythems, I've been able to calculate the drama from this situation and multiply it by 3 which equals HL.
Marauder Shields
Member
Also this is just my opinion but I don't think he was very good at hosting. Way too many awkward moments and he makes himself the centre of attention too much, as a host, for my liking.
I think Sheever has done a much better job of facilitating discussion within the panel.
I think Sheever has done a much better job of facilitating discussion within the panel.
Dreams-Visions
Member
1.) There is a spectrum of behavior. You can be a big assholish, tease a bit and be fine. Or you can attack individuals and suggest they are a cancer and greet an international audience as "cunts". Being given the opportunity to be colorful doesn't mean you a free pass to say any-fucking-thing.
2.) Gabe is a regular guy and Valve is privately owned. Quite frankly, he can say what he wants. And you know what's nice about it? It communicates exactly what the issue was without any further confusion on the matter.
I agree, but I respect that some people think he's entertaining so I will acknowledge that. For me he won't be missed at all.
funkystudent
Member
Valve's communication with its fan bases continues to be really "interesting".
I mean, it comes directly from James. I'm not going to assume he just made that up.
But today, just an hour or so ago, Gabe Newell, the man himself, posted this on /dota2/:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/47sc46/update_from_the_shanghai_major/
.
No lie detected.
Still, I'd say it's unprofessional on Newell's part.
Gabe newell is just one of us. ONE OF US
LumpOfCole
Member
Maybe, but after a full day to prepare a response, I would imagine a CEO (even Gabe) would say something more professional such as "James's casting style did not fit Valve's criteria in terms of professionalism for an official stream." For the CEO of any company to call someone an ass (and this isn't even a premature, snap-judgement of reaction - this is after at least 12+ hours of the situation developing) seems to mean that there's something under the surface that hasn't been revealed yet.
Stop making excuses for people that go out of their way to be douche canoes. They really don't need your defense, and you can very easily find something worthwhile to cape for than people like this.
Hey, he is a person at the end of the day. Either we start loving canned PR responses when gaming companies give them, or we let them speak candidly and roll with it. It's wild how when some company gives a PR non response people get upset, but demand more 'professionalism' when someone from a large company decided to shoot straight.
I would be 100% against Gabe calling him an ass if every time I have listened to the guy he didnt manage to uphold that very title.
tootsi666 said:
No they don't. And not every personality is going to keep that job either. And now he has lost it. He can go shop that shit around and see if anyone else is interested.
I would suggest that they told him to tone it down, and he didn't.
The bullshit you feel comfortable saying or doing around your friends is often inappropriate for any kind of professional or workplace setting. This is well-known to anyone who has ever even considered behaving like an adult. Once a company hires you and tells you what is and isn't appropriate in that setting, you don't get to go "I DO WHAT I WANT, IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE IT YOU SHOULDN'T HAVE HIRED ME".
Or actually you do, but in response they get to un-hire you, which seems to be what happened here.
StrategyFan
Member
unless 2gd promised some new level of professionalism, i don't know what valve expected
Wait, what? I think some people in this thread may be uninformed.
James made fun of someone's mentally handicapped brother
Citation needed. I've seen all of the TIs James has hosted and most of the panel during this major. I haven't seen his Dreamleague stuff, but I don't think he's done this. Googling leads to this which is a joke post : https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/47sc46/update_from_the_shanghai_major/d0f9upq
James called another player an autist
People might be going by my post in the Dota 2 OT. This is what the conversation was actually like:
James: I'm not sold on Envy. Who would be sold on Envy? I don't dislike the guy. His drive is that he almost hates the game. Rise or fall its very entertaining to watch him.
Its nice to have people that are stable. No... I don't mean gameplay stable. I mean... y'know?
Cap: Are you saying Envy is an unstable person?
James: I'm saying he's too invested in Dota 2 y'know? Not like that, y'know don't hate the game you work on yourselves y'know. More about an internal investment you know.
http://www.twitch.tv/dotamajor/v/50757535
23 minutes in.
He did say cunt and he has been making fun of other players and the production staff, but the extent of his unprofessionalism has been greatly exaggerated. And yes, I've seen the 2GD in a nutshell video but I'm purely speaking about his presence here.
James made fun of someone's mentally handicapped brother
Citation needed. I've seen all of the TIs James has hosted and most of the panel during this major. I haven't seen his Dreamleague stuff, but I don't think he's done this. Googling leads to this which is a joke post : https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/47sc46/update_from_the_shanghai_major/d0f9upq
James called another player an autist
People might be going by my post in the Dota 2 OT. This is what the conversation was actually like:
James: I'm not sold on Envy. Who would be sold on Envy? I don't dislike the guy. His drive is that he almost hates the game. Rise or fall its very entertaining to watch him.
Its nice to have people that are stable. No... I don't mean gameplay stable. I mean... y'know?
Cap: Are you saying Envy is an unstable person?
James: I'm saying he's too invested in Dota 2 y'know? Not like that, y'know don't hate the game you work on yourselves y'know. More about an internal investment you know.
http://www.twitch.tv/dotamajor/v/50757535
23 minutes in.
He did say cunt and he has been making fun of other players and the production staff, but the extent of his unprofessionalism has been greatly exaggerated. And yes, I've seen the 2GD in a nutshell video but I'm purely speaking about his presence here.
nephilimdj
Member
I find the backlash funny, /r/DotA2/ spend the last 2 years moaning they want Valve to treat it like Riot does and get shit together. Now they do, bam dont fire my fav jerk!.
Glass Shark
Banned
It doesn't take long to find some great clips of James being a total tool.
He can be funny and interesting and professional when he wants to be, but that's rare.
He can be funny and interesting and professional when he wants to be, but that's rare.
they apparently told him to be himself, which probably could've worked, except then, they gave him hours of dead air to fill while production was going spectacularly wrong
a lot of this would probably not have happened if the event ran on time, is what I'm saying
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Gaben is like your boss' boss' boss where he can say that a former employee is ass and have no real consequences.
sssstententen
Member
The way they've handled this entire tournament is absolutely atrocious, whether you ignore the 2GD situation or not.
I don't even blame 2GD in this situation. If they've had bad experiences with him in the past, and only brought him back on as a last chance, they should've either A.) Planned for contingency, or B.) Never done it.
And all of this still doesn't excuse the awful quality control surrounding the tournament iteself. Who knows what would have happened if the casters weren't having to make up for hours of delays and technical issues.
James may have fucked up, it happens, but Valve did too, and honestly, Gabe going on reddit and calling him and ass makes him seem more unprofessional in my opinion.
Didn't know that telling my opinion on the matter is just defending, but ok then. You are correct that Valve has the right to fire him but I don't have to like their decision.
Complicated
Banned
If Valve hadn't put on a train wreck of a show on top of hiring an idiot you might have an argument. Defending their incompetence as they kill the legitimacy of their game helps nobody.
You and I must have been browsing a different subreddit or you misinterpreted what they were saying. Valve's hands-off approach to policing casters was always appreciated, with James, Redeye, ODPixel being beloved figures.
They wanted Valve to treat the production of the majors as well as Riot did, which they have been delivering on. Heck, the TI's have always been the pinnacle of esports production. Its just now that Valve dropped the ball