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Vatican to American Nuns: Not Bigoted Enough

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Vatican orders crackdown on American nuns

WASHINGTON — The Vatican has launched a crackdown on the umbrella group that represents most of America’s 55,000 Catholic nuns, saying that the group was not speaking out strongly enough against gay marriage, abortion and women’s ordination.

Rome also chided the Leadership Conference of Women Religious (LCWR) for sponsoring conferences that featured “a prevalence of certain radical feminist themes incompatible with the Catholic faith.”

The Vatican’s disciplinary action against the LCWR was announced on Wednesday (April 18), one day before Pope Benedict XVI marked seven years as pontiff.

In many ways, the Vatican’s actions against the LCWR encapsulated the kind of hard line that many expected Benedict — the Vatican’s former doctrinal czar — to take when he was elected in 2005.

“The current doctrinal and pastoral situation of the LCWR is grave and a matter of serious concern, also given the influence the LCWR exercises on religious congregations in other parts of the world,” said the eight-page statement issued by the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which Benedict led for a quarter century before his election.

The directive, which follows a two-year investigation by Rome, also comes as the Vatican appeared ready to welcome a controversial right-wing splinter group of Catholic traditionalists back into the fold, possibly by giving the group a special status so that they can continue to espouse their old-line rites and beliefs.

The CDF, now led by American Cardinal William Levada, appointed Seattle Archbishop Peter Sartain to lead the process of overhauling LCWR’s governance and reviewing its plans and programs and its relationship with certain groups that the Vatican finds suspect.

One of the groups singled out in the criticism is Network, a social justice lobby created by Catholic sisters 40 years ago that continues to play a leading role in pushing progressive causes on Capitol Hill.

The Vatican announcement said that “while there has been a great deal of work on the part of LCWR promoting issues of social justice in harmony with the church’s social doctrine, it is silent on the right to life from conception to natural death.”

It added that “crucial” issues like “the church’s biblical view of family life and human sexuality, are not part of the LCWR agenda in a way that promotes church teaching. Moreover, occasional public statements by the LCWR that disagree with or challenge positions taken by the bishops, who are the church’s authentic teachers of faith and morals, are not compatible with its purpose.”

Many bishops were angered when LCWR and Network, along with the Catholic Health Association, endorsed President Obama’s health care reform over the bishops’ objections. LCWR and Network recently endorsed Obama’s compromise with the bishop over a mandate to provide insurance coverage for birth control for employees at religious institutions, even as the bishops continue to fight it.

The Vatican said the LCWR defended itself in part by arguing that the group “does not knowingly invite speakers who take a stand against a teaching of the church’when it has been declared as authoritative teaching.’” The LCWR also said that assertions made by speakers at LCWR conferences are not necessarily their own. The Vatican called that response “inadequate” and unsupported by the facts.

While LCWR did not respond to repeated requests for comment, Sister Simone Campbell, Network’s executive director, said she was “stunned” that the Vatican document would single out her group, probably over its support for health care reform.

“It concerns me that political differences in a democratic country would result in such a a censure and investigation,” Campbell said.

Campbell also strongly defended LCWR. “I know LCWR has faithfully-served women religious in the United States and worked hard to support the life of women religious and our service to the people of God.”

Throughout church history, and in particular in the United States, women in religious communities who take vows of poverty, chastity and obedience have directed their work toward charitable and educational ministries — running schools, hospitals, orphanages and a range of social services that have become as much a hallmark of Catholicism as the moral doctrine that the bishops oversee.

Increasingly, however, the hierarchy in Rome and the U.S. is focusing on promoting doctrinal orthodoxy and curbing dissent.

Many women religious (as both sisters in active ministry and cloistered nuns are known) have viewed their ministry as primarily one of service, but some have openly disagreed with church leaders on a number of hot-button issues.

In 2009 the Vatican launched a wide-ranging investigation of all women religious in the U.S., prompted by concern over their commitment to doctrine and tradition as well as the sharp decline in vocations. The number of nuns in America has dropped from 179,954 in 1965 to just 55,000 today.

Some newer, more traditional communities are growing, though they still represent a small minority of the total number of sisters. They are represented by a parallel organization that is considered more Vatican-friendly than the LCWR.

That broader investigation, called a visitation, was seen by critics as a heavy-handed maneuver and prompted widespread resistance among U.S. nuns, which led the Vatican to recalibrate its approach. The final report on that investigation was delivered to the pope in January, and the results are expected to be announced in the coming months.

The LCWR investigation was a separate probe that was begun in 2008 and concluded in 2010. Benedict gave the CDF the go-ahead to take action against the LCWR in January 2011, more than a year ago. There was no explanation for the delay in publicly revealing the crackdown.

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Radical feminist themes, okay then.
 

ItAintEasyBeinCheesy

it's 4th of July in my asshole
whoopi.jpg

Too big.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
You can't expect anything but nonsense from people who believe in and base their life around nonsense.
 

Replicant

Member
Dear Vatican,

This is exactly why I no longer bother coming to mass despite being born Catholic and from time to time still hoping against hope that maybe there is God who actually loves his/her disciples regardless of their sexuality.

But your exclusion of people who don't fit your dogma is just disgusting and since you don't want me unless I change into something that I'm not, then I'll gladly leave.
 

Aylinato

Member
I would rather have 55,000 nuns as my pope then this pope who is terrible and needs to go away in a time machine to before Christianity was formed. (we've had female popes and female leaders long before this male jerk off came to power)
 

Clegg

Member
The Catholic Church has become even more conservative since John Paul II died.

Ratzinger has done absolutely nothing to endear himself to the world.
 
The Catholic Church has become even more conservative since John Paul II died.

Ratzinger has done absolutely nothing to endear himself to the world.

Maybe it's just us Westerners that are salty about the Ratzinger thing.

Since 2005, the Church has seen an global upward trend in:

- Total population
- Priests, Seminarians and Deacons (and ordinations)
- Parishes, Elementary Schools and High Schools

There's interesting data here.

Also, I think it's pretty clear that the numbers in Western Europe and the Americas are changing to reflect a much smaller but more active and counter-cultural Catholic population. The days of the tribal Catholic are probably coming to an end.
 

RiccochetJ

Gold Member
I hope for a backfire where nuns start speaking out about the male priests who are actively molesting choir boys.
 

IrishNinja

Member
The Catholic Church has become even more conservative since John Paul II died.

Ratzinger has done absolutely nothing to endear himself to the world.

wasn't it down to him and the less conservative african choice? really, after the good john paul II, this was an amazing choice: you go from a saint to hitler youth.
 

Dead Man

Member

The Final Report of the Apostolic Visitation of Religious Communities of Women in
the United States (July, 2011) found that the formation programs among several communities
that belong to the LCWR did not have significant doctrinal content but rather were oriented
toward professional formation regarding particular issues of ministerial concern to the
Institute. Other programs reportedly stressed their own charism and history, and/or the
Church’s social teaching or social justice in general, with little attention to basic Catholic
doctrine, such as that contained in the authoritative text of the Catechism of the Catholic
Church. While these formation programs were not directly the object of this doctrinal
Assessment, it may nevertheless be concluded that confusion about the Church’s authentic
doctrine of the faith is reinforced, rather than corrected, by the lack of doctrinal content in the resources provided by the LCWR for Superiors and Formators.

That's a long way to say not much.
 
wasn't it down to him and the less conservative african choice? really, after the good john paul II, this was an amazing choice: you go from a saint to hitler youth.

Yes, the Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

And did you know the current Pope was actually a Nazi commando who blew up a train full of Polish oprhans?

Devo, this review was focused on a leadership group, not on American nuns in general.
 

Pollux

Member
wasn't it down to him and the less conservative african choice? really, after the good john paul II, this was an amazing choice: you go from a saint to hitler youth.

Can we please stop with the Hitler Youth nonsense? He was conscripted into the Hitler Youth at 14 as was required by law for all 14 year old boys after December 1939.
 

IrishNinja

Member
Yes, the Archbishop Desmond Tutu.

And did you know the current Pope was actually a Nazi commando who blew up a train full of Polish oprhans?

whoah, can you cite that? damn.

Can we please stop with the Hitler Youth nonsense? He was conscripted into the Hitler Youth at 14 as was required by law for all 14 year old boys after December 1939.

fair point on the hitler youth thing, but he didn't defect until the tide had clearly turned on the war.
i understand it's pretty easy of me, removed from that history and comfortably behind a computer, to say he should've defected prior and risked death to himself, and possibly his family. i likewise understand that's an unfair thing to reasonably ask of any regular man, but one who is to be held as morally infallible...?
 

Pollux

Member
whoah, can you cite that? damn.

He was being sarcastic.

fair point on the hitler youth thing, but he didn't defect until the tide had clearly turned on the war.
i understand it's pretty easy of me, removed from that history and comfortably behind a computer, to say he should've defected prior and risked death to himself, and possibly his family. i likewise understand that's an unfair thing to reasonably ask of any regular man, but one who is to be held as morally infallible...?

And he didn't defect because by the time the war was over in 1945 he was 18. And as soon as he was able he did leave and went back to his family. There's no point for an 18 year old Seminarian to "defect" to the other side, it makes much more sense for him to go back to his family. Fun fact, the American troops, when they occupied his hometown, made the Ratzinger house their HQ.

What next Latin only mass?
I'm OK with that. Got my 1962 Missal ready to go.
 
whoah, can you cite that? damn.

Tutu is an Anglican bishop.

fair point on the hitler youth thing, but he didn't defect until the tide had clearly turned on the war. i understand it's pretty easy of me, removed from that history and comfortably behind a computer, to say he should've defected prior and risked death to himself, and possibly his family. i likewise understand that's an unfair thing to reasonably ask of any regular man

Are you kidding? His involvement was mandatory; at 'best' he was a conscripted child soldier. From his wiki:

Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.

[snip]

As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household. As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.

So sometime between his 16th and 18th birthdays, he should have risked a summary execution by deserting his anti-aircraft unit. I don't know about you, Irish, but at that age I don't think I would have been conducting any daring midnight escapes into the Bavarian wilderness at the risk of taking a bullet to the head. However, if say the opportunity presented itself, like if my unit disbanded and I was finally able to desert without fear of capture, well, I would have pulled a Ratzinger and taken off for home.

edit: I don't know if anyone here saw this: John Boehner Says Bishops Miss Big Picture In Protesting GOP's Proposed Cuts

HuffPo said:
The bishops had written letters to Capitol Hill, arguing many elements of the Republicans' budget proposal, such as cuts to food stamps, harmed the poor while the wealthy benefitted.

These guys can't make anyone happy.
 
Dear Vatican,

This is exactly why I no longer bother coming to mass despite being born Catholic and from time to time still hoping against hope that maybe there is God who actually loves his/her disciples regardless of their sexuality.

But your exclusion of people who don't fit your dogma is just disgusting and since you don't want me unless I change into something that I'm not, then I'll gladly leave.

So much this. I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school all my life. I'm not trying to be offensive, but a picture or symbol of misogny should be next to the definition of Catholicism in the dictionary. Edit: Eh, that's probably offensive. Apologies.

Nuns taught me to read, write, math, actual fucking science, history, etc. My experience with priests growing up was that they were power obsessive old men who did jack shit and were pampered by nuns. - Edit: That was a stupid thing to say. Apologies. I was even an altar boy way back when.

Guess what? Altar girls are not going to cause the end of days. I've even gone to other non- Catholic churches where mass was said by a woman and the world did not cease to exist nor did any smiting happen.

Also, if exists, more gay men and women will get into the kingdom of heaven than old Pharisee priests that stand behind marble altars and preach non-inclusiveness.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
So much this. I grew up Catholic and went to Catholic school all my life. I'm not trying to be offensive, but a picture or symbol of misogny should be next to the definition of Catholicism in the dictionary.

Nuns taught me to read, write, math, actual fucking science, history, etc. My experience with priests growing up was that they were power obsessive old men who did jack shit and were pampered by nuns. I was even an altar boy way back when.

Guess what? Altar girls are not going to cause the end of days. I've even gone to other non- Catholic churches where mass was said by a woman and the world did not cease to exist nor did any smiting happen.

Also, if exists, more gay men and women will get into the kingdom of heaven than old Pharisee priests that stand behind marble altars and preach non-inclusiveness.

There are altar girls in Catholic churches.

I think the church needs to concentrate its efforts on being simpler and not making judgements on every subject ever known. Such as getting out of the sex and marriage opinion business.
 

Kabouter

Member
Any chance somebody can change Devolution's thread title?
WASHINGTON — The Vatican has launched a crackdown on the umbrella group that represents most of America’s 55,000 Catholic nuns, saying that the group was not speaking out strongly enough against gay marriage, abortion and women’s ordination.
Sounds accurate to me.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
The Catholic Church just isn't as progressive as many people would like to believe. In no way does it represent a moderate form of religion.
 

dabig2

Member
Well, at least the Vatican accepts evolution. That's a step-up from most of the Protestants that litter this country.
 

Aylinato

Member
Well, at least the Vatican accepts evolution. That's a step-up from most of the Protestants that litter this country.

Fun fact. One of my cousins(I'm Irish, lots of cousins) is one of the chief reasons evolution is accepted in the catholic church. Unfortunately he was sent out of the Vatican last year for being too progressive/liberal and the conservatives could not argue with him and sent him into exile(kinda)
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
We can put aside the god question, we can put aside the religion question..... but institutional religion? Absolutely transparent mind control.

I don't like to rag on Catholics because most of them are pretty nice, and I feel that they get enough doom and gloom, even from other Christians. But once and awhile you see a story and it reminds you exactly what's going on here: an elite ruling class of clergy who tell millions of people around the world what to think. Talk about a Machiavellian power scheme.

Luckily many Catholics don't really take the orders that they are supposed to.
 

Pollux

Member
Well, at least the Vatican accepts evolution. That's a step-up from most of the Protestants that litter this country.

The Church is not nearly as anti-science as people seem to think. Fun fact, a Catholic priest came up with the theory of the expanding universe and "Hubble's constant" 2 years before Hubble did.
 

shira

Member
Fun fact. One of my cousins(I'm Irish, lots of cousins) is one of the chief reasons evolution is accepted in the catholic church. Unfortunately he was sent out of the Vatican last year for being too progressive/liberal and the conservatives could not argue with him and sent him into exile(kinda)

Well at least they didn't excommunicate him/her. Is exile like england or something?
 

IrishNinja

Member
For a teenage seminarian to be a Nazi commando....? Very plausible...you're right.

you should read more pulp; ive seen it countless times

So sometime between his 16th and 18th birthdays, he should have risked a summary execution by deserting his anti-aircraft unit. I don't know about you, Irish, but at that age I don't think I would have been conducting any daring midnight escapes into the Bavarian wilderness at the risk of taking a bullet to the head. However, if say the opportunity presented itself, like if my unit disbanded and I was finally able to desert without fear of capture, well, I would have pulled a Ratzinger and taken off for home.

no you're quite right, i don't think either of us would've done it.
but we also would likely make poor candidates for papacy. again, i tend to think the moral barometer should be quite high for said position.

Any chance somebody can change Devolution's thread title?

i agree with this sentiment, the moment it stops being true, thread titles should reflect that.
 
Omfg, can we finally get a Pope that is at least somewhat grounded in reality?

It's always so much fun to see Vatican killing religion.
 

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
Well, at least the Vatican accepts evolution. That's a step-up from most of the Protestants that litter this country.
That is the Vatican's official position, but not every Catholic shares that view. According to one Pew poll, only 58 percent of Catholics (at least in the US) actually agree with the statement that "evolution is the best explanation for the origins of human life on Earth". Some scientists even argue that the interjection of god into the process of evolution is not entirely compatible with the theory of evolution, unguided and purposeless, as it is actually understood; thus the Vatican is not advocating pure science here but their own interpretation of it. But as you can see from the poll it is indeed a step up over protestantism, both mainline and evangelical.
 

Wazzim

Banned
The Catholic Church just isn't as progressive as many people would like to believe. In no way does it represent a moderate form of religion.

Who thinks they are progressive? Surely not educated people.

I personally see no reason why people would follow the Catholic Church after we got the Reformation. They're so obviously full of corrupt egoists, why would you support them?
 
Aaaaaand they just lost another generation of women seeking to be nuns. Can we downsize the Vatican too? Seems too big for a diminishing institution.
 

akira28

Member
The Catholic Church just isn't as progressive as many people would like to believe. In no way does it represent a moderate form of religion.

Power struggles man. There are moderates and conservatives, and right now the conservatives are focusing on Latin America and establishing a power structure to counteract the moderate-progressive changes of the last 30 years. They rule from the top down, and while there may be pockets of religion that are actually in tune with the faithful, it has always been the Church's MO that the Church leads and the faithful follow, not vice versa.
 
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