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[ElTorro]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-marriage-referendum-vote-defeat-for-humanity

A senior Vatican official has attacked the legalisation of gay marriage in Ireland. The referendum that overwhelmingly backed marriage equality last weekend was a “defeat for humanity”, he claimed.

“I was deeply saddened by the result,” Cardinal Pietro Parolin, the Vatican’s secretary of state, said at a conference in Rome on Tuesday night. “The church must take account of this reality, but in the sense that it must strengthen its commitment to evangelisation. I think that you cannot just talk of a defeat for Christian principles, but of a defeat for humanity.”

The remarks by the Vatican’s top diplomat, who is seen as second only to the pope in the church’s hierarchy, represent the most damning assessment of the Irish vote by a senior church official to date.

Parolin’s comments are sure to revive the debate about the church’s attitude to gay rights and equality under the papacy of Pope Francis, who once famously said “who am I to judge?” when asked about the existence of a “gay lobby” within the Vatican. That remark spurred hope among progressive Catholics that the church was entering a new era of tolerance and acceptance of gays.

For some, that hope has been dashed by an ongoing controversy involving a French diplomat and practising Catholic named Laurent Stefanini, who is gay. The Vatican has refused to accept Stefanini’s nomination as France’s ambassador to the Holy See because of his sexual orientation, according to media reports in France and Italy.

The Vatican has declined to comment on the matter, but there has been speculation in recent weeks that the pope could make an abrupt change and accept the nomination, after all. The Vatican recently told the Guardian that any news on the appointment would be made available on the Vatican’s bulletin, where such appointments are usually publicised.

On Tuesday night, Parolin said the “dialogue” between the Vatican and France was continuing in regard to the controversial nomination, and that he hoped it would come to a conclusion in a “positive manner”.

My two cents: the catholic church is still the catholic church, and the Pope is still a catholic, which, despite all the positive media the current Pope got in the past, must not be forgotten.

This is currently the official position of the catholic church as formulated in the catholic catechism:

Chastity and homosexuality

Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

gg no re

 

[EdibleKnife]

Insane to me how anyone can look at those hundreds of thousands of smiling, crying faces and see a defeat for humanity

 

[bonesmccoy]

Meanwhile, in Rome:

ROME — A one-day study meeting — open only to a select group of individuals — took place at the Pontifical Gregorian University on Monday with the aim of urging “pastoral innovations” at the upcoming Synod of Bishops on the Family in October.
Around 50 participants, including bishops, theologians and media representatives, took part in the gathering, at the invitation of the presidents of the bishops’ conferences of Germany, Switzerland and France — Cardinal Reinhard Marx, Bishop Markus Büchel and Archbishop Georges Pontier.
One of the key topics discussed at the closed-door meeting was how the Church could better welcome those in stable same-sex unions, and reportedly “no one” opposed such unions being recognized as valid by the Church.

From a (mostly right-wing) American Catholic site.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Hold that L, Vatican.

 

[sixteen-bit]

lol dey mad

 

[FUME5]

Eh, fuck 'em.

 

[Matty77]

The Catholic Church still holds outdated religous notions, while seeming progressive

And in other news water is wet and the sky is blue.

They can make all the statements they want and follow their beliefs as long as it does not translate into legislation against people who hold different beliefs.

 

[Sai-kun]

wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wah wah

 

[Eyeh4wk]

why we still got organized religion?

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

From everything I've read (gay Catholic here) the European and American priests are relatively more open to the idea of opening up the church to gays and lesbians (definitely not Catholic gay marriage but something more middle ground).

However the African bishops are vehemently opposed to gays to the point where they think there could be a giant schism if they were to announce any support. Reportedly this happened after the bishops published a document last year in their synod that opened the door for such acceptance and they capitulated because Africa is the fastest growing area for the Catholic Church atm.

 

[Atraveller]

why we still got organized religion?

They are profitable.

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

well fuck humanity then...

 

[Thequietone]

why we still got organized religion?

I read this in Steve Harvey's voice and spit out my water. Lol

 

[Ahasverus]

Irish say Vatican Top Diplomate is a disgrace to humanity

 

[BocoDragon]

I hope we defeat his insane definition of "humanity".

What an arrogant prick.. Thinking his wierd mega-cult's views has dominion over our world.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Koalas 1, Humanity 0.

 

[gdt]

Probably angrier that the once supremely catholic Ireland doesn't seem to be so anore.

Time to put more work in Africa!

 

[Mangoverboard]

From everything I've read (gay Catholic here) the European and American priests are relatively more open to the idea of opening up the church to gays and lesbians (definitely not Catholic gay marriage but something more middle ground).

However the African bishops are vehemently opposed to gays to the point where they think there could be a giant schism if they were to announce any support. Reportedly this happened after the bishops published a document last year in their synod that opened the door for such acceptance and they capitulated because Africa is the fastest growing area for the Catholic Church atm.

Well its not just the African bishops. Its just that a lot of the leading conservative bishops are quite high ranking and influential. Theres a few particularly in Germany I think that could start causing problems and a prominant bishop in Australia is against this current pope's liberalism. Things could get really heated and nasty in the church over the next few years. Be interesting to watch.

 

[Pitch]

Wonder what the Pope's got to say about it

 

[cj_iwakura]

Wonder what the Pope's got to say about it

Readying the pink slip, I assume. It's only a matter of time before Catholicism moves on from the dark ages. Once the old guard is gone, it can stop being a laughing stock.

 

[ElTorro]

Wonder what the Pope's got to say about it

My guess would be that he is in line with church doctrine when it comes to opposing homosexuality and especially gay marriage, but that he thinks that other issues are more important, and that this fight is not worth alienating more people than they already do. "Who am I to judge" is the the right line to sidestep the issue.

 

[cj_iwakura]

My guess would be that he is in line with church doctrine when it comes to opposing homosexuality and especially gay marriage, but that he thinks that other issues are more important, and that this fight is not worth alienating more people than they already do. "Who am I to judge" is the the right line to sidestep the issue.

The Pope's the most liberal one on the subject we've had yet. I bet if he had his say, he'd come out in open support of it.

 

[CountAntonius]

You lost.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I can't get over that headline.

 

[dankir]

Eh, fuck 'em.

And all those Irish priests that molested young boys... that wasn't a defeat for humanity?

I hate backwards people who think like this. I agree 100% fuck em.

 

[EdibleKnife]

And all those Irish priests that molested young boys... that wasn't a defeat for humanity?

Well to clean their own house first would mean acknowledging they're not as holy an authority as they like to claim to everyone. Irony is that having a hard stance on child abuse would actually be the righteous thing to do.

 

[Yagharek]

And all those Irish priests that molested young boys... that wasn't a defeat for humanity?

I hate backwards people who think like this. I agree 100% fuck em.

Exactly. The church has chosen to defend child abusers rather than human rights.

 

[LaNaranja]

Parolin’s comments are sure to revive the debate about the church’s attitude to gay rights and equality under the papacy of Pope Francis, who once famously said “who am I to judge?” when asked about the existence of a “gay lobby” within the Vatican. That remark spurred hope among progressive Catholics that the church was entering a new era of tolerance and acceptance of gays.

These do in fact exist. This dudes opinions do not reflect the opinions of all Catholics.

 

[ElTorro]

The Pope's the most liberal one on the subject we've had yet. I bet if he had his say, he'd come out in open support of it.

He is still a catholic who believes in the literal fight of a literal Satan against the literal forces of heaven, and that, according to catholic believes, in this fight our souls are at stake if we give in to sin and do not ask for forgiveness. So I am confident that he opposes homosexuality, which is unambiguously categorized as a sin.

Still, every person in the Vatican must realize that they are losing more than they can win if they strongly oppose homosexuality in public, at least in the west. The church is losing members and alienating people, especially the younger ones. You can't save those who won't listen to you because of your despicable believes, so the best strategic move is to avoid sideshows and focus on the core message. I am not expecting active and open support for homosexuality, but I'd guess that they will stop executing anti-gay policy.

 

[Salmonax]

Readying the pink slip, I assume. It's only a matter of time before Catholicism moves on from the dark ages. Once the old guard is gone, it can stop being a laughing stock.

Yep - we can only hope that Catholicism will eventually be dragged kicking and screaming into the not-too-distant past.

 

[Demon Ice]

Dat Vatican salt. Makes the victory for human rights all that much sweeter.

 

[Spaced Harrier]

 

[cj_iwakura]

He is still a catholic who believes in the literal fight of a literal Satan against the literal forces of heaven, and that, according to catholic believes, in this fight our souls are at stake if we give in to sin and do not ask for forgiveness. So I am confident that he opposes homosexuality, which is unambiguously categorized as a sin.

It's a dated belief, and I wouldn't be surprised if it gets cast out from Catholic teachings entirely in the not-too-distant future. There's a lot of stupidity in the Bible that we've tossed into the waste bin, and with good reason.

I won't get too deep into a theology debate, but they're the writings of man, and thus fallible.

 

[davepoobond]

Dat Vatican salt.

At least it's all natural salt and not concentrated artificial salt

 

[ItAintEasyBeinCheesy]

And protecting child rapists is what?

 

[Caronte]

why we still got organized religion?

Because European countries like to pay the church with taxes we are all forced to pay. Isn't that wonderful?

 

[hammysaurusrex]

One has to wonder how tainted the Vatican's view of homosexuality are due to the church's problem with rampant pedophilia and an unconscious motivation to make that an association with all homosexuality in society in order to lay blame on an external source. Perhaps it so powerfully skews their moral compass from being able to assess the obviousness that homosexuality is far less "evil" than pedophilic rape, given they may sincerely be incapable of recognizing them as separate entities.

 

[King Tubby]

And all those Irish priests that molested young boys... that wasn't a defeat for humanity?

I hate backwards people who think like this. I agree 100% fuck em.

Seriously. If a weakening of Catholic values and rise of secularism is a defeat for humanity in their eyes, they're the motherfucking MVPs of the anti-humanity squad.

 

[Easy_D]

Vatican top diplomat is a dick

 

[OrlanisWorks]

And protecting child rapists is what?

Hehe. Preaching the truth, amen.

And a defeat for humanity? If it's wrong, I don't want to be right. Stick it hard, church.

 

[Foffy]

Isn't his dogmatic projections and the base it comes from a defeat for humanity, as people buy into that nonsense? Promoting love and unity while promoting division and conflict..

 

[Trouble]

s/humanity/bigotry/

 

[umop_3pisdn]

Being a sore loser sure is a good look. They should get used to it, their stock continues to lose value.

 

[PlayALLtheGames]

I can understand the disappointment from his point of view. Must be a HUGE kick in the nuts for a country as Catholic as Ireland to go overwhelmingly in support of gay marriage, in a popular vote no less.

There, there, Pietro; have a good cry about it.

 

[Demon Ice]

why we still got organized religion?

Truly the greatest defeat for humanity.

 

[Bladenic]

I love how even the Church's view posted in OP on homosexuality says "they should not be judged" even though they do not condone it. If only people practiced what they preach.

 

[ElTorro]

I love how even the Church's view posted in OP on homosexuality says "they should not be judged" even though they do not condone it. If only people practiced what they preach.

They hate the sin, not the sinner. So they only hate homosexual acts, not homosexual people. That's the standard rhetoric that you hear every time.

 

[Meicyn]

Ezekiel 23:20 "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."

Don't give a fuck what the Vatican thinks when their precious book of morality is pure comedy.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Religion going to religion, but progress will slowly march on.