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Videogames meet Women
- Thread starter etiolate
- Start date
The best example lol : CLICK HERE FOR THE SAKE OF MEN IMAGE
I think it's just as worse as those muscle dude...
I think it's just as worse as those muscle dude...
Roland Hood
Member
VALIS said:
And women were getting their heads lopped off as freely as the men did. There's equality for ya!
Red Scarlet
Member
belgurdo said:
Yeah, but like after trying to give the bracelet to the sorceress, her spiel to Squall made me sick. That's the crap I'm talking about with her throughout the whole game. She was a drama queen from start to end.
Yeah, I didn't even think about RE4 (haven't played it). But if Ashley is all "ahhhh Leon. Help!" (like the part with those 2 crank things) throughout the game, then yeah that's something to be annoyed at, too. She's extremely helpless by the way it sounds.
BUT SHE HAS BALLISTICS!...ok.
and her "hey, you saved me, let's bang!" at the end really doesn't point things in a good direction, either.
Attack You
Member
Ehh, it would've irked me more if Ashley was just the opposite. She's the President's daughter. Probably pampered all to hell and depraved of any real excitement. She was easily the smallest and most fragile thing in the whole game. Her jumping on any of the enemies would've looked ridiculous. Though, I admit I'm with Anyanka on being tired of the "femme fatale" types.
CygnusXI said:I think political correctness should stay the F*ck outta videogames...
...but that's just me...
It's not political correctness that I'm talking about, just better designed characters and trying new genres. Would you want all your movies to have Arnold in them? Rescuing some flavor of the month? I enjoy movies more if they have more realistic characters and I think games could benefit from that. Especially if games want to be considered more mature.
And Ashley is annoying, which is too bad because RE has had some likeable female characters to play as in the past.
I always thought Alis in the original Phantasy Star was exactly what women characters in games needed to be like. You didn't play that game at all and think "Damn, she's hot", or "She kicks a lot of ass...for a girl", no, you thought of her simply as the lead character, who just *happened* to be female. I never questioned that or thought it was weird, it just simply was, and this was in '87! That game was far ahead of it's time I tell you.
Now something like Tomb Raider, it was all about Laura being a woman, you couldn't help but notice it because it was so flaunted. Developers need to make females characters that just "feel" like they belong there, not forced into a role that screams "Hey I'm a woman! Look at me! I can play too!". Perhaps gamers would take the female role in games a bit more seriously if that was the case, and perhaps female gamers in particular would feel a little bit better about their gender's portrayal in games.
Now something like Tomb Raider, it was all about Laura being a woman, you couldn't help but notice it because it was so flaunted. Developers need to make females characters that just "feel" like they belong there, not forced into a role that screams "Hey I'm a woman! Look at me! I can play too!". Perhaps gamers would take the female role in games a bit more seriously if that was the case, and perhaps female gamers in particular would feel a little bit better about their gender's portrayal in games.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Azih said:
It wasn't only that. It was the tee-hee pervert cam scene and other small touches that made it obvious that the game was made for men. Or at least in their view.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
vitaflo said:
There is a place for characters like Alis and a place for female characters that are nothing more than eye candy in games. They don't all need have characters like Alis (although some more wouldn't hurt). I really had no problem with Tomb Raider. It helped the game get noticed. I don't think the series would have been nearly as popular if Lara was more plain and realistic.
Pimpbaa said:
I'm not sure we're thinking about the same realistic and it's not just my taste. Characters with flaws, reasoning or some sort of dynamic are considered better in general. I like imaginative characters and imaginative worlds. It's just that LOTR wouldn't have been as interesting if Frodo was a 6' badass with a gun.
gamergirly
Member
etiolate said:
The video game industry targets males predominantly. There are more females getting involved into programming and areas of computers so the number of us in gaming and electronics is increasing. However, until females make up a significant portion of gaming, then you wont see much of a change in cultural and physical targetting for a while.
Despite what is reported, movies and music and stuff is more appealing to a young woman than a video game in many situations. Also, you just have a large number of girls who dont even know too much about video games to begin with.
Friendlier video games like Mario and Pokemon have more young girls interested in then a game like GTA or Halo. It's more like your boyfriend would be playing it with his friends than you yourself. Theyre easier to pick up and dont have a male trying to appear "heroic" and masculine. You'll often find young girls playing these on their GBAs in elementary schools and some junior highs. Many just drop the habit after they get into High School and guys and try to appear cool.
For older females, rpgs are a huge interest for us. They challenge our intellectural qualities(personalities, puzzle solving), and also recreate our "bonding" feeling that we naturally have(character relationships, longevity). Of all genres, you will find more females playing rpgs than any other. Final Fantasy games, Suikoden, Xenosaga, Golden Sun, etc. PC video game rpgs also provide a great deal of replay value. Puzzle games also represent this to a point.
Video games are going to have to overcome the "cool" factor like going out on movie dates or playing Britney Spears in plastic surgeries to become mainstream to a greater number of female gamers among other things(*SEX*, *CLUBS*, *SPAS*, etc.). Another important reason why gaming has not reached such a high interest in the female community is the fact that the male "ego" has much to do with him playing video games with his friends so much. Bragging over Madden football scores or winning in Halo 2 multiplayer deathmatches are great for kicks. What are us women supposed to do? If we want to brag with an "ego" we'll just tell you how ugly you look, run up a credit card bill to impress the girls with looks, or steal some other girl's man with hoochie skirts.
As for some female characters I might idolize or hate, it's better for me to make a generalization. Why would you want to play a video game character that indicates to you in every space of your mind that your body is not perfect lol.
Samus is more of a "regular" type of female character than a body goddess. These carb busting, double digited breasted, perfect hip shaped, Xena Warrior princesses are more like intelligent virtual reality strippers than real video game characters as far as I'm concerned. They dont represent the real world and how males and females look in REAL life.
You'll be lucky to find someone that actually looks like or represents many of these characters for real, and if you want to idolize a person so much, then why are you playing a videogame to begin with? Go cut the TV on in the other room, and look at real life pictures.
PC Gaijin said:
You know, I'd originally chalk this up to being that the majority of RPGs are made in Japan and the Japan has a pretty homogenous population (though I'm personally rather interested in how black foreign exchange students/tourists are treated there compared to whites). But then I think of the US developed Daikatana and Superfly Jackson and it's just like... ughh. I also wouldn't mind seeing some more black females in games... only one I can think of off the top of my head is Whisper, your rival in Fable.
And yes, I'd definitely like a bit older characters in my RPGs... I chalk young characters up to people in the middle ages up through the 18th century jumping from childhood to adulthood rather rapidly... and since many RPGs are theoretically set around this time, it's OK to have their characters be around this age and still capable enough to save the world (while nowadays people are leaving their houses and going off on their own at a progressively older age). I also chalk it up to when you're younger, you've got a much more active imagination and want to go on adventures, see the world beyond the neighborhood you're relegated to playing in. (When I was a tween, I loved riding my bike around town, exploring trails and woods, searching for new routes)
gamergirly said:
Pretty much every girl I know of that is knowledgable about games and buys them on a fairly regular basis (at least a game a month) like RPGs and simulation type games (Zoo Tycoon, The Sims) and won't try anything outside of these genres. My girlfriend in particular shows no interest to anything not resembling a turn-based RPG or simulation type game (she wouldn't even play Ys 6 or Star Ocean 3 because they were too action oriented), and she is bored shitless when I play a different genre (like when I'm playing Halo or a fighting game).
Pimpbaa said:
Yes, my arguement was for more female figures like Alis. My problem isn't Laura Croft per se, it's that it seems a disproportionate amount of females characters in games are of her ilk. I'd just like some balance. Lyn from Fire Emblem is another good example of a female leader in a game.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
gamergirly said:
Guys don't give a shit if a character in the game is better looking then themselves. Putting an average looking character would turn off a lot of gamers to that game. It would make the character visually boring.
Why should they represent the way males and females look in real life? It's fantasy. If a person is that insecure to be jealous over a video game character, then they have much more serious problems.
Idolizing some celeb or model isn't any more healthy than idolizing a video game character.
gamergirly
Member
Pimpbaa said:
Of course an average looking person would turn off buyers. We play video games to do what we cant do in the real world. I'm just saying that if I bought Tomb Raider(which I do own one of the games in the series), I wouldnt buy it bc a female character looks good, I would buy it bc of the challenge brought about situations and dungeons in the game.
Sometimes it's fun playing different characters that have nothing to do with who you are or what you would be, but there's a such thing as liking the character you play. Reality does factor in to whether you like a character or not. And unfortunately, many female characters are created for a male audience and have nothing to do with how a female would perceive the character.
What girl would play somebody who she thinks is a slut or "pansy" for example? There's a difference between being jealous bc your body doesnt look perfect and not liking a character for what you feel they represent. It might be something that you dont mind, I mean Lara Croft was and is still being created for you but she wasnt created to appeal to us.
True, but there are more people idolizing real life people than video game creations. I'm sure Dr. Phil knows more about helping those with self crazed celebrity look alikes than video game ones. Why I added this.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
gamergirly said:
I agree with you on some points. I said earlier in the thread that it's futile for a male dominated industry to try and makes games or characters more appealing to women. The industry needs perhaps some all female development teams (or at least directed by women) to make games for women. I think that would work out great.
Red Scarlet
Member
djtiesto said:
Fortune from MGS2 comes to mind.
I don't really have too much of a problem with how females are portrayed in games per se(I realize developers are catering to their target audience after all), but I would like the option of playing a female more often. Particularly in action/adventure games.
And I actually started playing videogames because of Lara and Tomb Raider. Sure, her measurements are very exaggerated, but to me, I was just happy to be playing a female lead in an action game, regardless of how she looked. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
And I actually started playing videogames because of Lara and Tomb Raider. Sure, her measurements are very exaggerated, but to me, I was just happy to be playing a female lead in an action game, regardless of how she looked. Beggars can't be choosers, I guess.
Pimpbaa
Slop Inspector
Be-Ah-Hui said:
I would like the choice of playing a female more often as well. Some developers probably think that their target audience doesn't want to play as a girl. I've known some guys who called me a derogatory term for homosexual for playing a female character in a fighting game. I sure as hell hope that mentality doesn't exist in some developers.
tehrik-e-insaaf
Member
What is correct and incorrect portrayal? Essentially it boils down to elitist thinkers who feel their perception of gender/sex is superior to another set of elitist thinkers and wish to gain followers with their ideology.
The big-boobed badass babes syndrome that plagued the PSX era is slowly going away just like the poor defenseless females at the end of every game syndrome that went away. It is healthier for these trends to come and go and let markets adjust then privilege any particular interpretation of gender/sex roles and see all games fall under a banner of political correctness.
Essentially no matter what is done, you are going to have critics. The criticism is based on how certain images and interactions are interpreted by what is purportedly a uniform population that behaves and responds in a singular way irrelevant of local culture, beliefs, and prevailing social norms.
Female gamers exist in all varities. There is just less dedicated "hardcore" following among women then men. The opposite is true in other industries. A good example is male hygiene products. How many men go around saying they purchase X lotion or Y body spray? However if you look at the trends in the industry the male hygiene industry is insanely big and supposed to level out with female hygiene soon.
The economics (i.e. opportunity cost) of wnning a hardcore following might make it difficult for publishers to target females at this point. When the industry matures and the current growth rates slow down, it may make more sense. Then we might see trends come and go alot quicker based on the fickleness of end-customers.
Just my 2 cents.
The big-boobed badass babes syndrome that plagued the PSX era is slowly going away just like the poor defenseless females at the end of every game syndrome that went away. It is healthier for these trends to come and go and let markets adjust then privilege any particular interpretation of gender/sex roles and see all games fall under a banner of political correctness.
Essentially no matter what is done, you are going to have critics. The criticism is based on how certain images and interactions are interpreted by what is purportedly a uniform population that behaves and responds in a singular way irrelevant of local culture, beliefs, and prevailing social norms.
Female gamers exist in all varities. There is just less dedicated "hardcore" following among women then men. The opposite is true in other industries. A good example is male hygiene products. How many men go around saying they purchase X lotion or Y body spray? However if you look at the trends in the industry the male hygiene industry is insanely big and supposed to level out with female hygiene soon.
The economics (i.e. opportunity cost) of wnning a hardcore following might make it difficult for publishers to target females at this point. When the industry matures and the current growth rates slow down, it may make more sense. Then we might see trends come and go alot quicker based on the fickleness of end-customers.
Just my 2 cents.
I'm absolutely fine with the way gaming is right now. Marketers catering to women have already ruined mainstream rap music and even music in general. No, I don't want to hear that same derivative crap of 'hey shawty, you know I love you,' 'shake that ass in the club baby,' etc. etc. a billion times a fucking day. Please don't let this happen with gaming. I'm glad gaming has the 'mainly for guys' image because that usually results in games I like instead of halfway shit that attempts to please both parties but ends up working for neither. Women have their forms of entertainment. Let us have ours.
http://www.play2eye.it/public/screenshots/28012005/925894_20050127_screen002_wat.jpg
This is the type of design, which will increase with the advent of 'female gaming,' that irk the hell out of me.
I really don't mind girls playing games at all, but let us have our thing.
http://www.play2eye.it/public/screenshots/28012005/925894_20050127_screen002_wat.jpg
This is the type of design, which will increase with the advent of 'female gaming,' that irk the hell out of me.
I really don't mind girls playing games at all, but let us have our thing.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Uh oh, i hearby declare gaming the sole domain of man. Women can like it, but you gets to play by us mens rules...
why not , you know, have a character create option in every game and then you can get as attached to your character in whatever way you want!
Yeah, RPGs are very popular amongst women. One of the most popular female characters amongst girls were FF heroines(Rikku and Lulu had the most votes) and self created characters from PC RPGs. Fighting game characters were surprisingly popular as well, especially Street Fighter and Soul Calibur characters. This may just be due to the fact both genres have more playable characters to choose from on average. Single character Adventure games and Action games are still pretty slim on non-stereotyped females. And I don't mind static/stereotyped characters as minor side characters, but stuff like Bloodrayne leaves that genre with laughable choices for girls. Some of the RE games, Clock Tower, BG&E and Silent Hill have had less Maximerific leads. Survival Horror? Also a popular genre for girls. You can say girls don't buy games for whatever reason, but then you start to see a pattern of where there are games with decent female characters and those genres are where girls gravitate. Also, companies don't target their advertising at women at all. Just go to a store and look at all the covert art. Do you think you could find 5 covers in the whole store that would appeal to anyone but a frat boyl? There's still more reasons, but I'm babbling on.
It is interesting that Alis was the first female lead in a console RPG and was a good example to set, but characters since then have been hit and miss.
And yet again, this goes for male portrayals as well. I am sure a good portion of the male population here play as female fighting characters in their games. Some of us just aren't big fellows and identify more with a fast and acrobatic character. I use Talim a lot myself.
It's like the industry wanted to suddenly say it's more mature now and gamers are more mature. That the males who grew up playing videogames are now in their 20s and 30s. Since this is so, games should grow up to meet them, but thats not exactly what happened. It wasn't that companies and marketers said "hey lets approach older gamers", they said "Hey this is this 18-35 male demo and let's treat it as such!"(and I know I dont' have the demo exactly right so bugger off) So, I dont' think we're really gotten games that appeal to older games, just games that have lured in that overpersued demographic.
As for the male ego part, don't act like girls won't mock a guy if she beats him at mario kart. =P
And Zelda Bitch, I was actually hoping to bring out the media folk who post here to comment on the subject.
1. I think having more types of characters in a game can only help. GTA for example recently switched to a black male main character and I think it helped. Not because he was black, but because he was a hell of a lot more interesting than Tommy Vercetti. They actually put some thought into him. Vercetti felt like a bad stereotype, an italian blockhead.
Also, new genres and ideas inspired by female gamers could flop, but they could also provide cool new games to play.
2. That design is not the product of female gamers. At least not western female gamers. I was talking to a friend once and asked her in a teasing way "So what videogame character do you have a crush on?" and she laughed but then realized there wasn't any male character she actually thought was attractive. The only game characters I've heard girls say were cute at all are Solid Snake and mature Link. Those certainly aren't anything like the bishounen stuff flowing out of japan right now.
I don't mind strong female leads in games. They can be interesting. However, designers can get STUPID with it. For example, in the latest Tenchu, where's Rikimaru or ANY male ninjas? That new chick in the game looks ridiculously stupid. You're a female ninja, yet you're only wearing a bright pink gi and panties? On second thought, I don't really know WHO the developers were trying to appeal with that move...
I'm against a flood of pansy ass prettyboys and other gimmicks flooding into games to appeal to females.
I'm against a flood of pansy ass prettyboys and other gimmicks flooding into games to appeal to females.