Only if you ignore the increase in sales tax. Why the doubling of licence fees for ev and hybrids and not gas engine inly vehicles?
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Virginia GOP: Tax hybrids and electric cars to subsidize gas for gas guzzlers.
- Thread starter speculawyer
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greatestjediever
Member
Booo this state!
Personal property tax in this state is already a bitch for cars. That said, I guess the state income tax is a bit less than it was back in California.
I was flabbergasted when I saw my PPT in Virginia for a VW Golf that was several hundred dollars higher than my registration fees for an M3 in California.
Personal property tax in this state is already a bitch for cars. That said, I guess the state income tax is a bit less than it was back in California.
I was flabbergasted when I saw my PPT in Virginia for a VW Golf that was several hundred dollars higher than my registration fees for an M3 in California.
To offset the federal gas tax that hybrids pay less of, and that EVs don't pay at all (this according to the Governor of Va, says the googles)
So you agree that there will be people who don't own a vehicle who will be subsidizing this.
Ignis Fatuus
Banned
The Republican continues to be the most dangerous animal in North America.
I used to say mammal but they appear to have cold reptilian blood in their veins.
I used to say mammal but they appear to have cold reptilian blood in their veins.
LOL, that's the definition of subsidizing.
It's hard to argue that it's a subsidy when registration fees are going up across the board. That sort of language implies someone's getting a pass at the expense of others - not sure you can say that here. Everyone benefits from improved infrastructure. Kind of like paying higher local sales tax to fund education, when you don't have any kids.
What it definitely isn't, though, is the OP's assertion that it was a subsidy for "gas guzzlers" only at the expense of EVs/hybrids and it's not your implied assertion that it was a subsidy for gasoline vehicles in general.
except that EVs don't pay the gasoline taxes that the state and federal government collects to maintain our roadways in the first place. That would now be ending.
Anyways, I suggest you actually read the legislation summary that the OP linked in his post, and read it carefully. There's nothing there to get up in arms about re: hybrids and EVs - they aren't being targeted unfairly. It's more accurate to say that now they'll be paying the share to use the roadways that they previously did not.
New solution: it's silly to tie specific programs to specific revenue sources. All tax revenue should go into one general "pot" and every program that people decide is worth funding should receive its revenue from that single pot. What do we gain from tying infrastructure spending to gas tax revenue? (And, for that matter, why tie school funding to property taxes, or health care funding to cigarette taxes, or...)
One reason they do it is to define limits - helps lessen the chance of overspending in one area to the point of threatening everything else. Can you imagine the budget fights in statehouses if they didn't tie taxation for certain things to certain behaviors/consumption/sales/etc?
I can understand increasing fees on hybrids EVs, that's something that states like WA and OR have done or are planning to do unless I'm mistaken, but to do that while eliminating the state gas tax is flabbergasting.
If that were the case, the level of spending that's considered to be "overspending" could be determined in much more logical ways. The level of spending that goes into a local school system, for example, should be tied to a cost-benefit analysis, not the performance of the housing market.
It's just political. "Look, we eliminated the gas tax! Your price at the pump is lower now thanks to us!" All the while, hoping they don't notice that their sales tax has slightly increased. I can't imagine the public is going to be as happy about it as the governor thinks. Its just pushing taxes around. Eliminate a big one, push it over into 6 others.
Baron Doggystyle von Woof
Member
This is so stupid.
Peak oil can't come soon enough.
Peak oil can't come soon enough.
My Name Is Luke
Member
VA Resident here...when did we actually get public transportation that wasn't city bus lines? I'm from Virginia Beach and I know we were trying to pass legislation on a rail line extension from Norfolk to the oceanfront but I never heard about how that went
GoldenEye 007
Member
In the specific instance of a gas tax, though, usage of the roads does not go down, right? Yeah less gas is used because of efficiency but the roads are seeing the same level of decay and need for repairs. Maybe even more since people can go longer distances on a single tank without thinking about needing to stop for gas as often.
In some ways I can see this. But at the same time they are looking to get rid of the general gas tax altogether, this seems pretty dumb.
Pumpkin King
Member
Well this makes total tense. They gotta collect taxes somehow!
Seriously, messed up stuff.
Seriously, messed up stuff.
Squirrel Killer
Member
I'm a little confused, from the full text of the enacted bill, it appears to:
- raise the sales tax from 4.0% to 4.3%, not 4.8%
- replace a flat $0.175/gal gas tax with a 3.5% sales tax on gas (6% on diesel, except for vehicles under 10,000 lbs GVW,) not eliminate the gas tax (gas tax goes to 5.1% if Congress doesn't let VA tax "remote sellers," Amazon, et. al I assume)
- raise the electric/hybrid fee from $50 to $63, not $100
Is it possible the issues you're complaining about were in an earlier version of the bill and were modified before it was passed into law?
This old news in Virginia - this was the bill that was part of the Transportation "reforms" months ago. The final bill is different from the text here.
The raise on EV and Hybrids was lowered from the initial number and the gas tax remained (I think). However, the sales tax raises for everyone, but raises more for the NOVA and Hampton Roads localities (the worse traffic areas, but also - conveniently - some of the more democratic areas aside from Richmond City proper).
The raise on EV and Hybrids was lowered from the initial number and the gas tax remained (I think). However, the sales tax raises for everyone, but raises more for the NOVA and Hampton Roads localities (the worse traffic areas, but also - conveniently - some of the more democratic areas aside from Richmond City proper).
Fenderputty
Banned
Everyone always shits on Cali and our direct democracy, but I'll take Cali over any state ran by a majority of GOP.
YuriLowell
Member
Gas Tax pays for road maintenance in Virginia. You aren't paying as much tax for using the roads just as much. Its only fair.
speculawyer
Member
That is a great movie and makes some excellent points (the tax-credit for heavy vehicles, the stupidity of destroying functional vehicles, the general good aspects of EVs). But I think it does go a bit over-board. The late 1990s was just not a good time for EVs to launch. It was at a historic nadir of gasoline prices and the batteries were not quite ready. But that said, GM should have continued quietly working on EVs in the background and they would have had something great today.
It is also unfortunate that one of the EVs fans in that movie is Mel Gibson considering he's discredited himself as a rational person.
speculawyer
Member
Did you bother to read the article? They are cutting the gas tax to ZERO so how is it 'fair' to make hybrids and electric cars pay?!?!? Duh.
But you should pay less with a hybrid because you are polluting less. Everyone can also get a hybrid if they think it is 'unfair'. I think it is quite unfair how much pollution I am forced to breathe in.
speculawyer
Member
Federal tax is federal tax, that is not the state's business to address. If they don't like the Federal law then they should talk to their Congressperson and Senator.
If they don't like that hybrids pay less tax then they can buy a hybrid!
Why do you think it is a good idea to reward people to pollute more? Do you not breathe?
You Are Viewtiful
Member
I hate sales tax but it is true that due to decrease in gas usage, (flat) gas taxes are not going to pay for roads. Roads/infrastructure improve the economy so of course you have to pay for them one way or another.
Squirrel Killer
Member
Did you bother to read the full bill as enacted, my post, or teiresias' post?
Of course he didn't. Of course, he's not exactly interested in accuracy anyways, given the content of his first post.
Black Mamba
Member
This isn't even entirely accurate. Some hybrids don't get great mileage and some gas cars do. They're taxing hybrids just because.
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