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VLTTP: Baldur's Gate (and other CRPGs)

sobaka770

Banned
This is the first of what I hope to be a long-running series of entries as I discover the world of CRPGs. I welcome you all to join in and share your experiences. I would appreciate no major spoilers as I play through these games for the first time.
A bit of background: recently after the release of the Divinity: Original Sin 2 I was very much enticed by the prospect of playing a deep and engaging RPG. I’ve played through Dragon Age and Dark Souls series, I’ve beaten KOTOR and Mass Effect, I completed all Witcher games however whenever I tried to get into the really old stuff or tactics-heavy game such as Baldur’s Gate or NWN, the sheer task of learning all the stats, classes and how not to die within 5 minutes was overwhelming.
Well it ended a week ago, after I have decided to play what some consider the best RPGs ever created on PC. Here’s the list of games that I endeavor to tackle in the nearest future (pace may vary):
- Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2
- Pillars of Eternity
- Divinity: Original Sin 1 and 2
- Pillars of Eternity: Deadfire
And if I’m not an old man by the time I’m done with those I’ll have a delicious dessert which is Planescape: Torment. I hope that my impressions as an avid gamer and an RPG fan will be interesting to readers and to people who didn’t play those games.

SPOILERS TO BALDUR’S GATE 1 (ENHANCED EDITION)

CHARACTER CREATION: My goal was to play a dual-wielding character for BG 1 and 2. I made some research before on classes and early game to avoid frustration. I made sure that I get no spoilers past Nashkel. I decided to get a Fighter/Cleric dual class because the idea of self-buffing murder machine appeals to me very much. A lot of strength and charisma was my goal as I aim for a very noble good playthrough. Off to Candlekeep!

ACT1-2:
Dark Souls has nothing on the obtrusiveness and deadliness of this game at the start. I have tried BG 3 times over the past years and never came past Bereghost. Dying is no fun, even with solid gear and what I think are good choices. Instructions are vague and maps are full of unkillable monsters. My mage friend can cast 2 spells before resting and has 4 hp which makes him utterly useless. Is it normal to rest after very damn fight? A wolf gives 65 xp (10 per person) with 3000 xp more to go till my mage will get level 2 and hopefully more spells to cast.

Oh boy…

Let’s face it, BG is an old game and is based on an old D&D ruleset which is mercilessly brutal and frankly tedious at level 1. I guess in real life you get the fun from just rolling the dice at this point, while here I just watch a bunch of idiots swinging swords until someone hits and either my party member or enemy drops dead.

I don’t feel like I’m an idiot or a noob. I get rolls, saving rolls, THACO and negative armor. This game is still damn hard. Dragon Age really smoothed the initial curve where enemies don’t one-shot you all the time. I finished that game on highest difficulty (although admittedly early-game in Dragon Age: Origins is still harder than level 10+).

What am I doing wrong?

After finally getting all my party members in tow from the wilderness and Friendly Arms inn, I decided to carefully follow the road to Bereghost and see if there are some easy quests to do there. I ditched my evil-aligned companions for a Wild Mage I met in town who can also only cast 2 spells.

I like how there’s a large amount of characters to assemble in the game who you meet randomly all over the place. Admittedly, they are not deep charaters, mostly their role is to provide a variety of alignments and classes to choose from, however, considering that the part size is a whopping 6 people, it’s not a big deal. After taking a road to Nashkell (to make Khaleed and Jaheera shut up) I met Minsk and decided to help him with the Gnoll fortress. My characters are still all level 1 with only Imoen close to leveling up. She’s also the best performing character by far with her bow. I relegated my main character to throwing stones as well since he’s weak and dies easily.

Parting Throughts: the option to only animate the actual attack is hidden far away for some reason but really helps with immersion. I initially thought that characters were attacking all the time and missing most of their attacks (which looked stupid and weak), but now they only attack once per round and the hit dice rolls in the combat log give a sense of progress in combat. I aim to clear the Gnoll Fortress soon and hopefully get to level 2!
 
i'm gonna bump the thread just to tell you in for one hell of a ride

i really don't remember the start of BG1 right now, it's been too long

and i surely didn't play it at maximum difficulty
 
This was always an issue with BG1, and one of the primary reasons BG2 has been so much better received. Low level DnD, especially in the old days, just isn't that fun mechanically since you lack so many options and the ones you do have tend to be ineffective or just lack impact. Especially if you play a spellcaster, there is nothing more disempowering than using your one or two spells up and then knowing you'll be worthless in combat for the rest of the session. It's one of the things most of the more modern editions, especially 5th, have spent a lot of time trying to streamline but this is ADnD and the grind is real.

Of course, in real life DnD you dont do nearly as much combat as Baldur's Gate would lead you to believe, so it's heavy focus is what draws these flaws out so heavily. Only being able to cast two spells per day, or only reasonably engage one monster at a time, is a lot more reasonable when you'd only have maybe one major fight per session. Still, its a great game in spite of this and I feel it starts to pick up right around where you are now, when you have an actual team ready to go and aren't relying on just your own weak stats.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
The first few levels of BG1 can be tough, because low level D&D 2E toons are notoriously weak. Especially casters. It's also true that BG1 actually ends before any of the potentially overpowered dual or multi-class builds even hit their stride. For low level mages, honestly just have them plink away with a sling. It's really all they can do for a bit. And yes, resting after just about every fight is pretty standard at low levels.

Don't worry too much about XP gains from mobs, since the lion's share comes from quests. There is absolutely no mob grinding required (or really even encouraged) in the BG games.
 

Nikodemos

Member
Sling, darts, throwing daggers... It's pretty much all you can do at a low level with the mage after you expend those 3-4 memorised spells.
 
My rule for older crpgs is that if they allow grinding I will spend some time doing so until I'm confident I could grind the whole level then I'll just load up cheat engine and give myself xp. There's no reason to sink time into something repetitive unless you enjoy it, and after doing it enough times it becomes trite rather than fun. Obviously though quests should be the primary mode for experience. Grinding is usually for when you are close to a level or the next is something game changing.
 
You are taking on a real challenge with BG1.

Best tip I can probably give you starting out is that disruption spells like sleep make a huge difference in fights. For the Gnoll fortress in particular Sleep can carry you through, as long as the dice gods favor you. You also have command word sleep on the Cleric and later spells like Hold Person.

It's really rough at low levels as you can so easily get one shotted. Early places to gain xp:

The Hobgoblins around the Friendly Arm Inn. One drops a Flamedance ring that a woman in a house just inside the Inn entrance wants.

There is also a ring which doubles the amount of 1st level Wizard spell you can memorize. It's a tiny spec at the foot of a tree along the bottom of the FAI map, right of the entrance. you will need to hold tab to highlight it.

More Hobgoblins on the 2 maps before Naskel.

In Beregost (sp?) at one of the pubs you get threatened by a chap named Marl, If you say the right things (plenty of bar for us all, son sounds like a fine lad taken too soon, let me buy a drink) you get 900xp. You can also buy a book in that pub that a wizard in a house across the street wants for more xp.

In one of the fields on the left of the Naskel map there is a buried piece of armor, you will need to hold tab to highlight it again.

The mines can be a little rough due to the damn Kobold archers. Sleep is your friend once again.


Hope some of that helps. If it becomes to tedious you could jump into BG2 as that feels less unfair starting out, you won't get one shotted by stray dogs.


Edit: Some companions come as a pair and you can't get rid of one without the other. To get around this simply kill the one you don't want before reforming your party.
 

obeast

Member
It's been a while since I played BG1, but my memory is that you want most of your party to start off with ranged weapons, even if you don't plan on having them use them long-term. Give one party member the best armor you have and a shield, and have them tank things while everyone else attacks from range. The game's difficulty doesn't really hit its stride until level 5 or so.

Edit - oh yeah, and sleep. Sleep is a one-stop fight-ender for most low-level encounters in the game.

Also -- and this is blatantly a cheat -- I would recommend editing in boots of speed for every party member (via a save editor). You just move too damn slowly in infinity engine games, and doubling your speed will cut the boring parts of your playtime (moving across maps) significantly. It'll also let you BS enemies with kiting, but as long as you have the discipline to prevent yourself from doing that, it's more of a time-saver than a combat advantage.
 

Ushay

Member
Better late than never. You are in for a great ride, although BG will feel a little dated next to the newer games because of its older rules etc and unforgiving encounters. Much has changed since then.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Enjoy.

Make sure everyone has a ranged weapon. Everyone. When a weapon proficiency point comes up for your mage put it into slings/thrown. Scout ahead if the monsters are giving you trouble. Summons are also extremely powerful in BG1 (uncertain about the remaster).
 

Linkark07

Banned
My mage friend can cast 2 spells before resting and has 4 hp which makes him utterly useless. Is it normal to rest after very damn fight? A wolf gives 65 xp (10 per person) with 3000 xp more to go till my mage will get level 2 and hopefully more spells to cast.

Oh yes, resting is a must if you have a mage in your party. But don't get discouraged, mages are awesome in BG2. I had the blast of my life playing a mage in BG2. The wait was worth it.

All I can say is have patience. BG is a little tedious but after a while it grows on you. My situation was almost the same: I had to restart BG many times because something didn't click on me. But after playing and reading guides, I started to love it.
 
I kind of dig the low-level feel of BG1. I don't thin I've ever played a game where every level counts as much as that one.

Baldur's Gate, the location, is still one of the best realized cities ever in an RPG all of these years later.
 

obeast

Member
I kind of dig the low-level feel of BG1. I don't thin I've ever played a game where every level counts as much as that one.

Baldur's Gate, the location, is still one of the best realized cities ever in an RPG all of these years later.

Yup. Even if you're put off by BG1 at first (and there is a lot about it that hasn't aged particularly well, even in comparison to its direct sequel), I'd recommend playing until you hit the city. That was the point at which I went from "meh, grinding through mediocre quests in the wilderness" to "ooh, this is a good game."
 

Nezacant

Member
Ranged weapons for all characters are a must in BG games. Especially in early levels. Crowd management is important. Inch your way across a level, don't try to fight everything at once. Try to make enemies come to you one at a time like you would in old MMOs.
 

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
Your best friend at early levels is the Sleep spell, it works on damn near everything in BG1 (outside of some stuff like undead) and can trivialize many fights.
 

StereoVsn

Member
I highly recommend adding Shadowrun Dragonfall and HK, Planescape Torment EE and maybe NWN2 Mask of the Betrayer to the list.

The first two have great storytelling, interesting characters and fun combat system. PT is a true classic in every sense and is a must play. NWN2 MotB is good but not as good as the rest, IMO, but a lot of people will disagree.
 

Moongazer

Member
I've been replaying BG1 recently and enjoying it more than I have when I last tried it. On my first attempt I gave up a few hours into the game as I found it too tedious and tried to grind my way through. My advice would be not to grind and to stick to the main quests until chapter 3. Once you hit that point you should start to explore the maps and do the sidequests. Exploring is actually fairly enjoyable as there are always some surprises in many of the maps so exploring them fully is actually worth the effort especially since many of the best loot is usually hidden away or on many of tougher enemies. Stick with it though it gets much better as you progress and level up (albeit slowly) but that is the appeal of the game.
 

Cleve

Member
CC is definitely your best friend, but I never found the need to grind in those games. Experience was best earned from quests, many of which could be done with little combat.
 
I never tried spamming ranged weapons in BG1. Feels like the cowards way out!

You have single digit HP at level 1 my dude, never fight fair!

Early 'grinding' tip: head north of the Friendly Arm Inn. There you'll find some insects who randomly pop out of the ground: use your Cleric 'Command' spell to KO them and then beat them to death. They hit like a truck but have not a lot of health and pretty high AC but most importantly: are worth nearly 1k xp a pop and constantly respawn. I strongly recommend butchering them until you're level 2 across the board, maybe 3 if you want an easier go of it. At least at level 2 you can actually take a few hits. This should be the only time in the trilogy you ever have to 'grind'.

P.S. if you want to be a straight asskicker, roll the new Dwarven Defender kit for fighter. You can only use warhammers and axes but you get a crapton of HP, a great defensive buff and THAC0. You do have to be a dwarf though, but that's okay because their saving throws are great.
 

Brandon F

Well congratulations! You got yourself caught!
Played through BG1 again this summer myself. Some tips:

-Equip your mages with slings ASAP(keep them at range the entire 40+ hours).
-Don’t bother with zone exploration in the first couple chapters. It can be dangerous poking around off the beaten path. Stick to the road and follow your journal to Friendly Arms Inn(grab the team members there) and then Nashkel. By then you will have your full squad of 6, and can do a quick side quest to save Dynaheir for Minsc(to ensure he stays in your team).
-Once you wrap that, your goody-goody squad of noble heroes should be finalized. Plenty of time to start picking at side quests now
-Again make sure the team is equipped well. Loot in IE is different from other RPGs. First half of the game is mostly dealing with cruddy basic stuff you never really replace(get backups!! The Iron shortage means basic weapons crumble so expect your weapons to crumble and need replacing until you get some magic gear). Second half of game will reward you with plenty of good stuff from quests and exploration though.
-Turn on auto-pause rules in settings!! I like pause after-casting(easy to queue up something new after a mage casts a spell). Pause when weapon ineffective(switch to something with diff dmg type), lots to toggle, turn on several and scale back as you get comfy or find some a hindrance.
-Buff spells are often more vital than dmg. Fireball can be fun, but it takes practice to perfectly place them to ensure your party isn’t hit or the enemies move out of zone while casting(you have to guess damage radius too). Much safer and easier to just buff the team or cripple the enemies with passive stuff for stat advantage, especially early on(your frontline then carves them dead). Once you get comfy managing your tanks and fighters to control crowds and keep enemies on them(always fight in doorways or choke points if possible), then have fun with fireballs. Oh and magic missile is always good. Sleep is also stupidly helpful in the early game. Highly recommend both for early game magic slots.

Have a ton more, but will check back later. Also IWD may actually be a better place to start given its encounter design and progression is linear and a better tool for learning to play these games(and deal with foes) than the vast open spaces of BG1. Just a thought...
 
I never tried spamming ranged weapons in BG1. Feels like the cowards way out!

Being a giant coward is part and parcel of playing any sort of spellcaster in DnD. By the end of BG2 the ideal fight for a wizard goes "I immediately remove half the enemies from the fight, incapacitate 1/4th, and I'm totally immune from damage from the remainder." Then you let the simpletons with the swords do the dirty work. To make up for the fact that the ideal fight for a wizard in the first few levels is "maybe distract the Kobold with some shiny lights and pray the guy with the sword keeps him away from me".

Fair fights just ain't their thing.
 
You have single digit HP at level 1 my dude, never fight fair!

Beating sleeping enemies to death with a basic staff isn't exactly fair either I suppose ha.

Grinding Ankegs at lvl 1 doesn't seem safe! I have never tried that.

I used to "cheat" by killing Firebeard Elvenhair twice at the begining of the game. In Candlekeep you can throw rock at him, then run upstairs every time he casts a spell to dodge it. When he runs out of spells you start on him with a sling whilst running around the room keeping furniture between you. Winthrop used to love that show. Then he reappears in Beregost for you to do it again, 2000+ xp each time.
 

Pilgrimzero

Member
My advice: cheat. Use the in game cheats to be able to instant heal your party and instant kill your foes. Give yourself a few levels of xp.

Or use a save editor and give yourself items and xp.

BG1 is HARD cause it’s old school D&D. Get a few levels under you and it gets better. You can grind for hours or just grant yourself the xp and gold.
 

Anno

Member
As someone who went through basically this same thing relatively recently I'm curious where you end up on everything. Keep us updated!
 
Let’s face it, BG is an old game and is based on an old D&D ruleset which is mercilessly brutal and frankly tedious at level 1. I guess in real life you get the fun from just rolling the dice at this point, while here I just watch a bunch of idiots swinging swords until someone hits and either my party member or enemy drops dead.


!

This is why old crpgs like Baldur's Gate are unplayable to me. I feel like I am wasting time. There's no exciting self made narrative to all the misses, like in actual DnD. I just watch really bad animations for 5-6 turns.
 

sobaka770

Banned
Thank you everyone for various advice. I knew going into this that the game is frustratingly hard early on and it doesn’t feel like you’re doing much but lucking out on a roll. However, I do not look to cheat or to change stats etc, not do I look to grind or do specific quests in order to get easy xp. Just like Dark Souls, the first playthrough has to be as blind as possible (I did cheat with DS a bit). Moreover, if Baldur’s Gate 1 is the roughest CRPG, I want to experience it all, good and bad. I assume it only gets better from here on and that gives a nice warm feeling of anticipation. It also allows me to see how the game design evolved. Clearly this game in 1998 was the bomb but in a world of mobile gaming and instant gratification this is a very hardcore proposition. As I stated before, I see how the newer rulesets (KOTOR, DA:O) go for a smoother early-game curve with fast leveling to get you hooked and expand the arsenal of abilities early on.

The only help I allowed myself is some early-game advice: found a ring which doubled the amount of spells on my mage (Godsend) and went to Gnoll Fortress ASAP.

I think I figured out my party for the foreseeable future: I got a paladin tank Ajantis, Minsc (and Boo), me with my sling waiting to unload the two-handed flail wrath later on, Neera the wild mage, Branwen the cleric and finally Imoen with her Shortbow and nascent thievery skills.

Unfortunately not everyone made it alive in my merry group as Khaleed died bravely as we entered Bereghost and met Neera. We only just met the weird girl and within seconds pledged ourselves to protect her from the Red Mages who wanted to abduct her for experiments. Little did we know the danger those lunatics would pose to us. Khaleed held the line till his last breath but succumbed to overwhelming power of the evil mage. The warrior was no match for the evil magics that befell upon him. Confused and disoriented he was stuck in the melee, unable to move and was slain by the mercenaries. His death was avenged however as the mage exploded in tiny bits of meat from what I assume is a critical hit of Jaheeera’s staff. But the damage was already done and we mourned the first non-save-scummed loss of the game. I couldn’t bear to leave the druid by my side, the loss of her partner weighing heavily upon her spirit. So I left her to cheer up at the Nashkell Carnival where the stone-imprisoned cleric was deemed a worthy replacement.

Minsc’s friend from the Gnoll fortress didn’t have such a heroic fate. Straight after her rescue she was decided too weak to join our party. Yet while leaving she lured the dim-witted warrior away with her. I grew attached to the big bald guy with a huge sword (since he doesn’t seem to miss as often and hits like a truck). My neutral good alignment decided that the glory of our deeds with Minsc will outshine the loss of a dusky beauty who was standing ion the way of our happiness. I reinvited both to the party but, alas, as soon as that happened, stripped of her possessions the rescued mage wandered into a group of small goblins and got clubbed to death for her stupidity. Minsc was sad for about a minute, but after her dead body was dumped from my party (and the triumphant return of Neera) all became swell again.

Good news all around: my party is finally level 2-3 and things start to pick up a bit. I no longer die in one hit (it takes 2!), there’s some value to proper party positioning and the fights become more involving overall. Sleep spell is totally overpowered but I don’t feel ashamed using it, considering that the alternative is more fighting/reloading and resting. It’s nice to win 2-3 fights a day just by slaughtering sleeping enemies.

I also started to accumulate enough money to get good armor and helmets and ranged weapons for my party. It feels like we start to hit more often and get hit less often which is nice. The best part was the discovery of magic gloves that set the Dexterity to 18 to the wearer which is totally not OP at all. It’s cool to find an object which totally breaks the game if properly used so early on.

Now with my group assembled and equipped in what I assume is solid early-game gear, I’ll be heading into the mines in the following days to see if the story picks up a bit. So far it’s standard fantasy fare (not that I expect a revelation in this regard), however it’s still interesting and I kind of enjoy the low-key stakes so far. Recent Bioware outings are all about you becoming a savior pretty much within the opening hours, and so far I wasn’t recruited into an ancient society (Spectres, Grey Wardens) or tasked with protecting the world just yet. I really hope that won’t happen in the mines. Onwards!
 
Thank you everyone for various advice. I knew going into this that the game is frustratingly hard early on and it doesn’t feel like you’re doing much but lucking out on a roll. However, I do not look to cheat or to change stats etc, not do I look to grind or do specific quests in order to get easy xp. Just like Dark Souls, the first playthrough has to be as blind as possible (I did cheat with DS a bit). Moreover, if Baldur’s Gate 1 is the roughest CRPG, I want to experience it all, good and bad. I assume it only gets better from here on and that gives a nice warm feeling of anticipation. It also allows me to see how the game design evolved. Clearly this game in 1998 was the bomb but in a world of mobile gaming and instant gratification this is a very hardcore proposition. As I stated before, I see how the newer rulesets (KOTOR, DA:O) go for a smoother early-game curve with fast leveling to get you hooked and expand the arsenal of abilities early on.

The only help I allowed myself is some early-game advice: found a ring which doubled the amount of spells on my mage (Godsend) and went to Gnoll Fortress ASAP.

I think I figured out my party for the foreseeable future: I got a paladin tank Ajantis, Minsc (and Boo), me with my sling waiting to unload the two-handed flail wrath later on, Neera the wild mage, Branwen the cleric and finally Imoen with her Shortbow and nascent thievery skills.

Unfortunately not everyone made it alive in my merry group as Khaleed died bravely as we entered Bereghost and met Neera. We only just met the weird girl and within seconds pledged ourselves to protect her from the Red Mages who wanted to abduct her for experiments. Little did we know the danger those lunatics would pose to us. Khaleed held the line till his last breath but succumbed to overwhelming power of the evil mage. The warrior was no match for the evil magics that befell upon him. Confused and disoriented he was stuck in the melee, unable to move and was slain by the mercenaries. His death was avenged however as the mage exploded in tiny bits of meat from what I assume is a critical hit of Jaheeera’s staff. But the damage was already done and we mourned the first non-save-scummed loss of the game. I couldn’t bear to leave the druid by my side, the loss of her partner weighing heavily upon her spirit. So I left her to cheer up at the Nashkell Carnival where the stone-imprisoned cleric was deemed a worthy replacement.

Minsc’s friend from the Gnoll fortress didn’t have such a heroic fate. Straight after her rescue she was decided too weak to join our party. Yet while leaving she lured the dim-witted warrior away with her. I grew attached to the big bald guy with a huge sword (since he doesn’t seem to miss as often and hits like a truck). My neutral good alignment decided that the glory of our deeds with Minsc will outshine the loss of a dusky beauty who was standing ion the way of our happiness. I reinvited both to the party but, alas, as soon as that happened, stripped of her possessions the rescued mage wandered into a group of small goblins and got clubbed to death for her stupidity. Minsc was sad for about a minute, but after her dead body was dumped from my party (and the triumphant return of Neera) all became swell again.

Good news all around: my party is finally level 2-3 and things start to pick up a bit. I no longer die in one hit (it takes 2!), there’s some value to proper party positioning and the fights become more involving overall. Sleep spell is totally overpowered but I don’t feel ashamed using it, considering that the alternative is more fighting/reloading and resting. It’s nice to win 2-3 fights a day just by slaughtering sleeping enemies.

I also started to accumulate enough money to get good armor and helmets and ranged weapons for my party. It feels like we start to hit more often and get hit less often which is nice. The best part was the discovery of magic gloves that set the Dexterity to 18 to the wearer which is totally not OP at all. It’s cool to find an object which totally breaks the game if properly used so early on.

Now with my group assembled and equipped in what I assume is solid early-game gear, I’ll be heading into the mines in the following days to see if the story picks up a bit. So far it’s standard fantasy fare (not that I expect a revelation in this regard), however it’s still interesting and I kind of enjoy the low-key stakes so far. Recent Bioware outings are all about you becoming a savior pretty much within the opening hours, and so far I wasn’t recruited into an ancient society (Spectres, Grey Wardens) or tasked with protecting the world just yet. I really hope that won’t happen in the mines. Onwards!

Given the companions that BG2 assumes you used in BG1 this entire post is hysterical (in a good way).
 
IIRC, my ideal party had various people who were part of the "couples" companions. There are certain people you meet who will only stay in the party if other people stay in the party (I think that's the deal with Minsc right?).

You can deal with this by dismissing the one of the pair you don't want, while that person is in a room by themselves, and thus never getting to talk to your main char when you dismiss them and in turn never triggering the second member of the "couple companions" to leave. This was useful for ditching Jaheira and whoever Edwin was paired with IIRC.

E: Maybe one of, if not my singe most fond memory of gaming as a child was playing BG1 and 2 on PC. I have never been so enthralled by a game's world. Really hope you enjoy OP. I've never actually tried to go back for fear of ruining what my memory maintains as perfect games...
 

Szadek

Member
As somone how is currently replaying BG2 and is near the end of ToB, it's nice to see again how it all started.
Mage are very weak at the start, but become crazy powerful buy the end.
Also, to be fair, I most use them for Anti-magic, since high levelspellcasters with the improved AI mod are scary as fuck.

Many character from BG1 don't show up in 2 or aren't playable, but there are mods for most of them.
 
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