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Wallstreet: We didn't benefit enough from the bailouts, so we are suing the US Gov

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Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/we-bailed-you-out-and-now-you-want-what/2015/06/05/95ba1be0-0a27-11e5-95fd-d580f1c5d44e_story.html?tid=hpModule_79c38dfc-8691-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394&hpid=z14

Americans were angry when Wall Street’s greedy and risky behavior triggered a global financial crisis in 2008. They were angrier still when the government had to borrow and spend hundreds of billions of dollars to rescue mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, the largest banks and the insurance company AIG. They were outraged when they found out that executives at those enterprises were continuing to receive big salaries and bonuses.

So just imagine how it outrageous it would be if some Wall Street sharpies went to court to argue that they didn’t benefit enough from the bailouts and that taxpayers should pay them tens of billions of dollars more.

In fact, they did. And, according to legal observers, they just might prevail.

“Lawsuits of the Rich and Shameless” is how the comedian Jon Stewart dubbed it.

“An absurdist comedy . . . worthy of the Marx Brothers or Mel Brooks,” wrote John Cassidy, the New Yorker’s economics correspondent.

For taxpayers, it looks to be another example of the old adage that no good deed goes unpunished.

In two separate cases, the government now stands accused of overstepping its authority when it took extraordinary measures to prevent a financial meltdown in the fall of 2008. The Wall Street figures who are suing say their property was seized without compensation, in violation of the Constitution. One case was brought by Maurice “Hank” Greenberg, the legendary former chief executive of AIG who built it into the world’s largest insurer. Filing the other case is a group of hedge funds that bought Fannie and Freddie stock for pennies per share after the companies were put in government conservatorship.

Federal district court judges in Washington and New York initially dismissed both challenges. Their opinions noted, somewhat pointedly, that the Wall Street plaintiffs were not only unharmed but actually came out better off as a result of the government rescues. Yet both groups have now found a more sympathetic hearing a stone’s throw from the front gate of the White House, at a little-known brick courthouse called the U.S. Court of Claims.

There, Greenberg is asking the court to award him and other AIG shareholders at least $23 billion from the Treasury. He says that’s to compensate them for the 80 percent of AIG stock that the Federal Reserve demanded as a condition for its bailout. Judge Thomas Wheeler has repeatedly signaled his agreement with Greenberg. A decision is expected any day.

In the Fannie and Freddie case, the decision is further off, with the trial set to begin in the fall. The hedge funds are challenging the government’s decision to confiscate all of the firms’ annual profits, even if those profits exceed the 10 percent dividend rate that the Treasury had initially demanded. This “profit sweep” effectively prevents the firms from ever returning the government’s $187 billion in capital and freeing themselves from government control.

Earlier this year, Judge Margaret Sweeney refused to dismiss the case and gave lawyers for the hedge funds the right to sift through the memos and e-mails of government officials involved. Within weeks, Fannie and Freddie shares, which had been trading at about $1.50, started trading as high as $3 based on rumors that the documents revealed inconsistencies in government officials’ statements. The hedge funds are asking for the return of as much as $100 billion in profits and an end to the Treasury-imposed profit sweep. In her comments, Sweeney has shown sympathy with their argument that the government can’t hold them indefinitely in a legal limbo in which they have no claims to assets of the company they ostensibly own.

When these cases were filed, many legal observers thought they were a long shot, even frivolous. But from their procedural rulings and comments from the bench, said David Zaring, a professor of legal studies at the Wharton School of Business, both judges have indicated they are at least open to the plaintiffs’ legal theories and willing to hold the government accountable for what it did during the financial crisis.

“I think people’s views have changed,” Carl Tobias, a professor at the University of Richmond Law School, said of the AIG case. Greenberg’s lawyers, he said, “were able to present evidence and persuade the judge that there were some serious issues here. It’s possible the judge could rule in their favor in some way.”

What's the limitations of criminally prosecuting these fucks for fraud and evading taxes?
 

Kevin

Member
I'm no longer surprised by the fact that the corporations have controlled the country for a long time now. This is just another day on the job for these companies.
 

watershed

Banned
The owners of this country are punishing the government they control for daring to, even for a moment, control them.
 

Kevin

Member
Picture of the bank CEOs planning the lawsuit:

maxresdefault.jpg
 

Jonm1010

Banned
Oh get fucked! We saved you and the economy from collapsing and this is what happens?

Frankly this goes to show what happens when you don't take the secondary step of purging and prosecuting the perpetrators of these actions in the first place. Or, at least take more tough reform so they get the message.
 
Well Court of Claims does have an appellate structure. First to federal circuit court then I assume to Supreme. So even in a probable loss here, hopefully they lose at one of the latter two stages.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
All I can hope for is this is the sort of overreach on Wallstreet's part that will make it very hard for either party to stand behind them.

Republicans are going to have a tough time arguing billions in government dollars should go to further compensating the people the tea party hates.

Democrats aren't really going to find any backers.

This isn't the sort of thing that will likely produce media apathy where either party feels the public won't pay attention.

Then again this is the U.S. Government and they have found ways to bend for wall street every other time.
 

charsace

Member
It seems like some of these guys getting killed is the only way they will take a step back. They all think they're untouchable.
 

Enron

Banned
The article doesn't do a very good job of making clear what is actually happening. Wallstreet firms that got bailed out aren't suing the federal government, their investors are.

Hank Greenburg was kicked out of AIG in 2005 but remained a major shareholder. The hedge funds suing over Fannie and Freddie simply bought their stocks after the gov't had placed them in conservatorship. They weren't even involved when things went south in 2008.
 
The article doesn't do a very good job of making clear what is actually happening. Wallstreet firms that got bailed out aren't suing the federal government, their investors are.

Hank Greenburg was kicked out of AIG in 2005 but remained a major shareholder. The hedge funds suing over Fannie and Freddie simply bought their stocks after the gov't had placed them in conservatorship.
So what are these investors arguing? That if these companies were allowed to implode, they would have made more money?
 

Averon

Member
It seems like some of these guys getting killed is the only way they will take a step back. They all think they're untouchable.

An they have every reason to think that.

When was the last time the government REALLY went after Wall Street instead of making settlements for slap-on-the-wrist fines that are couch change compared to what these firms swindled?

Even if hell freezes over and the Justice Department and the SEC really start going after them, Wall Street knows it has Congress in its pocket to serve as interference.
 

AntoneM

Member
So what are these investors arguing? That if these companies were allowed to implode, they would have made more money?

No, I think it's more along the lines of that the federal government should not have been allowed to invest/bail-out these companies in the way it did; a procedural error so to speak.

However, your point has merit since it's hard for me as a layman to figure out how these investors were harmed and how they then have any standing.
 

Enron

Banned
So what are these investors arguing? That if these companies were allowed to implode, they would have made more money?

They are arguing that the federal government, as part of the takeovers, have done something they shouldn't have and/or illegal.

Greenburg is arguing that the law the federal gov used to authorize making loans to AIG contain nothing in them about receiving stock back (the feds received 80% of the stock in AIG) . As a result of that transfer, the shareholders who held the other 20% led by Greenburg argue that they lost 23 billion collectively as a result of the illegal stock transaction. (this is buried further down in the OPs article)

The hedge funds involved with fannie and freddie are arguing that since the gov't takes all of fannie and freddy's profits now, it eliminates any chances of those two firms being able to ever pay off the federal government which is keeping the values of the shares that they hold down (the shares they bought after all the bad shit went down). The Federal Government is arguing that Fannie and Freddy shareholders are entitled to nothing and are essentially shit out of luck.

They are not entitled to a penny of the companies’ profits or any proceeds from the sale of company assets. Not now, not ever.

So as you can see, the ones suing the government are merely investors, not the firms themselves.
 

Ke0

Member
Should of let the system implode.

Wouldn't that have led to an actual depression affecting not only America but every other country?

I don't think anyone would want that. I wouldn't want my country to suffer because a few rich Americans were super greedy and destroyed their entire country for some extra 0s on their cheques.
 

Condom

Member
An they have every reason to think that.

When was the last time the government REALLY went after Wall Street instead of making settlements for slap-on-the-wrist fines that are couch change compared to what these firms swindled?

Even if hell freezes over and the Justice Department and the SEC really start going after them, Wall Street knows it has Congress in its pocket to serve as interference.
Where is Congress when you're a dead man? The CIA/FBI can handle this just fine if they want to.
 

Prototype

Member
Corporations shouldn't have freedom from the government. They just want to get rid of regulations, and it's pretty thinly veiled.
 

Nephtis

Member
You'd think the courts would've laughed them out of there for trying to pull that bullshit.

I'm still hoping they're only allowing them to get this far so they can get shut down at the highest level.

Also, next time? Forget about just bailing them out. Let them drown, the fuckers.
 
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