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WaPo - Miss USA says health care is a privilege, not a right
- Thread starter TangoAlphaLima
- Start date
yanipheonu
Member
This isn't a good argument. The only reason to stick with something like BLM is because certain people feel invested in it. Keeping the naming is not of strong importance and if this had actual marketing and branding it would have been dropped and replaced because the optics turned bad. Feminism is the same way, it doesn't adequately describe what it is, and it's not terribly inclusive so if you wanted to back another term, why not? Sure there's some ulterior motives and whataboutism but aside from the stupid bikeshedding there actually is a good case for rebranding.
Elginer
Member
Umhmm
UnemployedVillain
Member
More like it says a lot about the people who qualify for the contests and that makes you feel slightly uncomfortable when they're "exposed" or "called out"
Feminism only doesn't make sense to people who don't want to understand it. "branding" is a non sequitur, because the issue is not "branding"
TangoAlphaLima
Member
You can argue that there is too much baggage with the labels BLM or feminism, and that's fine, but suggest that ALM or equalism are appropriate substitutes is absurd. Rebranding is one thing. Rebranding to a term that completely removes the focus of the movement is simply preposterous.
We also have that. Quite a lot actually and still nobody would suggest to stop universal healthcare because somebody else would get it too. If you live in Switzerland and work, you will have to pay for healthcare but you will also benefit, even if you are not Swiss.
User Name Here
Member
A Link to the Past
Banned
But that's the thing, feminism is about equality through achievement of women's rights initiatives. I mean, that's the inherent implication, that feminism exists to eliminate unjustifiable discrepancies in society. Equalism implies that we should address all rights equally (including rights that go beyond gender issues), disregarding that not all rights issues are equal.
Gotdatmoney
Member
Lol, no one was saying all lives matter when black people were slaves, or during segregation or when the police were continually beating the shit out of black people for existing. The point of BLM is to highlight the mistreatment of black people by law enforcement. It's to definitively say "no, I am black and my life fucking matters".
If you think changing the name to All Lives Matter would do anything you are dishonest. No one says All Lives Matter with the intention of batting for black americans. Don't be naive.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
I think the purpose is clearly to act like they are judging the contestants on other factors besides their beauty, despite it being called a beauty pageant. Extra publicity from lousy answers is just the cherry on top.
bobbychalkers
Member
This, intelligence isn't linear.
It still is stupid.
Healthcare still is a privilege for her, if you work. But that is not the case, universal means universal. If you are unemployed you still get healthcare, because very often health is the reason why people are unemployed.
Yes, sometimes this means you will have to pay for stupid or lazy people, but that is part of democracy. The quality of democracy is not measured in how well the rich are doing.
I read to watch what she actually said whats the difference?
BrutishMrFish
Member
If BLM were changed to ALM, the focus would shift to benefit white people more than black people, which defeats the whole purpose of the movement. That's what always happens when there's some sort of push to benefit "everyone" - white people get most of the benefits, everyone else gets ignored.
My quantum mechanics professor used to say, "Not rocket science huh? It's actually harder."
SaviourMK2
Member
I didn't think I was being misogynistic. I thought I was being prejudice against stereotypical cookie cutter contestants who are dumb as bricks but it's ok cause they is pretty.
But if you feel I was, I apologize, that wasn't my goal.
She's probably love that. I'd bet that she's a fan.
shawnbuddy
Member
What's her Reddit username?
A Link to the Past
Banned
Oh wow, it didn't even occur to me that Somnid may have been going to bat for AllLivesMatter.
Maybe she doesn't understand the context that question is usually asked in, and is just speaking to the reality of her experience. If healthcare was a right, she wouldn't need a job to have it.
She also made the point that an environment should be cultivated where everyone has the opportunity to get healthcare/jobs, so she does seem to believe that the government should be doing something.
She also made the point that an environment should be cultivated where everyone has the opportunity to get healthcare/jobs, so she does seem to believe that the government should be doing something.
SaviourMK2
Member
After watching it, I guess she was trying to imply that healthcare is a privilege gained through jobs and everyone should have those jobs. But that still sounds shitty considering the toxic political climate with healthcare being under attack.
She's not white enough for Trump
SaviourMK2
Member
crap. Double post.
Yea, I hope she was trying to say she is privileged to have it through her work, and thus she wishes work for everyone... which makes sense in a way.
gutter_trash
Banned
Not only is she a Fuck You Got Mine,
She works in the public sector with the best benefits.
She's a horrible human being
Not in neoliberal societies. It absolutely is measured that way in America.
That's part of the problem.
So then how do you get more people to understand it, or even want to? The term itself is like really easy to misinterpret or gives the illusion it's not about men and men shouldn't care.
I don't claim ALM is better because it has it's own racist baggage but I've never heard "equalism" in such a light. Perhaps it has it's own culture to it I don't understand but as a proposal I think it's fine.
And it has been to the exclusion of other groups. Feminism in the classic sense was not necessarily about minority women and certainly not transgender. It's a bit old fashioned. While I do understand some of the strategic value of granularity keep in mind that when you look at it from an adversarial standpoint you are really fighting white christian hetero cis males. Seems like this tent could be bigger?
Gotdatmoney
Member
Indeed he was.
The problem is not that it's called feminism. The problem is not that it's called Black Lives Matter
The problem is people want to dilute it so they can ignore the problem.
If the branding was the issue someone else woulda rose up and solved these issues hundreds of years ago.
Anyone that pins the failures of society to meet feminist goals on the name feminism can piss off. Dishonesty at it's finest.
I'm more worried that we put Rick Perry in charge of them.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I mean technically in the US it is treated as a privilege. But it needs to be made a right.
astroturfing
Member
i have to admit, if i lived in a society where the poor werent guaranteed affordable healthcare, i would turn to crime in a fucking instant if i needed piles of money to pay for my treatment or a loved one's treatment. i'd find out where the richest folk live and pick a target to rob, or something.
feels fucked up to say that, but i know i have that side in me.. i like to think of myself as a kind and moral person, but i would not be able to accept a horrendous disease or death just because i lacked money. i would do pretty much anything to avoid a preventable catastrophe, including throwing at least some of my morals out the window.
glad i live in a society where everyone is getting taken care of and i get to see it firsthand working in a high tech university hospital. CEOs and junkies get the same treatment. which is how it should be.
feels fucked up to say that, but i know i have that side in me.. i like to think of myself as a kind and moral person, but i would not be able to accept a horrendous disease or death just because i lacked money. i would do pretty much anything to avoid a preventable catastrophe, including throwing at least some of my morals out the window.
glad i live in a society where everyone is getting taken care of and i get to see it firsthand working in a high tech university hospital. CEOs and junkies get the same treatment. which is how it should be.
Storm Chamber
Banned
Lot of sexism ITT
For shame, OT
For shame, OT
Rich entitled person from a wealthy family. What else is new?
25 year old scientist. How many people are at that age who is declared a scientist? From what I gather, most scientists would still be going through the PHD. Not trying to knock her accomplishments, but it seems that she had some major help getting to where she is; and from her views, I am not surprised. Since a lot of people with that attitude has had things handed to them their entire life.
25 year old scientist. How many people are at that age who is declared a scientist? From what I gather, most scientists would still be going through the PHD. Not trying to knock her accomplishments, but it seems that she had some major help getting to where she is; and from her views, I am not surprised. Since a lot of people with that attitude has had things handed to them their entire life.
BrutishMrFish
Member
It's really not fine. Whenever there's a push to benefit "everyone," everyone in that case ends up being white people and almost only white people. That's how it always goes, and that's why egalitarians and "equalists" are almost always full of shit.
I would say that Ben Carson and Miss DC are well versed in their chosen field. One can be a good scientist and still lack basic skills.
We can start by not propagating the idea that Feminism is hard to understand.
"Feminism" isn't palatable to a lot of people not because the supposed ambiguity of the term, it's not palatable because people don't like women.
The Albatross
Member
If she's stating how things are she's correct. Health care, in the US, is a privilege, not a right. It's something you either get subsidized from your employer or subsidized from the government, or paid for out of pocket (or some mix of these three). In the US as things are, nobody has a right to quality or affordable health care. If you live in an isolated part of the United States, even with something like an affordable health insurance law (say, a single payer, 100% coverage law), you still don't have access to good health care.
Now, if she's arguing health care should be a privilege is something altogether different. Without taking anything away from beauty pageants, I've just never played as much importance on them as some Americans do (like our president), and so what someone in a beauty pageant says during a Q/A section isn't something that I really think a lot about.
I'd consider a right vs. a privilege in that a right is something that you have that can only be abridged by government (or someone else) taking it away. You have a right to free speech only because the government (or, say, an angry mob, etc) could take that away from you, but the government doesn't grant you that right -- It's not given to you by the government. I think when we get into this complex language of declaring things that aren't a right as being rights, like, "access to broadband should be a right," I think we're missing the difference between a privilege and a right, but because we've attached this negative connotation to "privilege" we think that means that something being a privilege or somebody being privileged to something is a bad thing.
On the feminism question, I've had feminists explain to me that feminism can be reduced simply to equality of the sexes, and the pursuit of that equality. I've considered myself a feminist insofar as I strive for that as well (though I'm sure I regularly fail at it). Does it mean something else, or at least, if you have to give an elevator-ride answer to a question, is there another explanation that's more accurate today?
Now, if she's arguing health care should be a privilege is something altogether different. Without taking anything away from beauty pageants, I've just never played as much importance on them as some Americans do (like our president), and so what someone in a beauty pageant says during a Q/A section isn't something that I really think a lot about.
I'd consider a right vs. a privilege in that a right is something that you have that can only be abridged by government (or someone else) taking it away. You have a right to free speech only because the government (or, say, an angry mob, etc) could take that away from you, but the government doesn't grant you that right -- It's not given to you by the government. I think when we get into this complex language of declaring things that aren't a right as being rights, like, "access to broadband should be a right," I think we're missing the difference between a privilege and a right, but because we've attached this negative connotation to "privilege" we think that means that something being a privilege or somebody being privileged to something is a bad thing.
On the feminism question, I've had feminists explain to me that feminism can be reduced simply to equality of the sexes, and the pursuit of that equality. I've considered myself a feminist insofar as I strive for that as well (though I'm sure I regularly fail at it). Does it mean something else, or at least, if you have to give an elevator-ride answer to a question, is there another explanation that's more accurate today?
While she might be a 'scientist' at the USNRC, I very seriously doubt she holds an actual scientist title. Those positions require a PhD or years of equivalent training.
Autumn Wind
Member
I highly disagree with her statement although I do have a question.
Do a majority of Americans care about beauty pageants such as Miss USA anymore?
Do a majority of Americans care about beauty pageants such as Miss USA anymore?
Gotdatmoney
Member
No not really. Feminism isn't about fighting people. It's about fighting ideals and disemination of power structures that are driven by patriarchy.
If you are male the current societal structure benefits you period. Whether you are white, black, gay, muslim or whatever. Likewise, the enemy isn't just a straight white christian guy. Not if he is understandig of the concepts of feminism. Not if he pushes forward womens rights.
This isn't about making enemies of people.
The Albatross
Member
I don't think so... in the 80s and early 90s, Miss USA was a pretty major event... I used to watch it on TV with my family and if I remember correctly, it took up a major primetime block on a top network.
Now a days, I will never hear anything about MissUSA unless Miss USA does or says something stupid, or the host does or says something stupid ... like the host a couple years ago giving the title to the wrong person at Miss World or whatever it was. There's been a larger rejection of pageant culture in the US, too, especially in the fallout of the Jean Benet Ramsey death back in the 90s, which shed light on how weird pageants are to most people who had no idea what actually went on in children's pageants.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YmDcCpD1gc
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Let's hope not.
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