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[boredJonathan]

Let try this again. Third version of this post.

I'm watching my ex's dog while she goes out and sees some other guy behind my back.

What is wrong with me that I think I should try and become someone else that she dates?

(Granted, she does not know that I know she is seeing someone. And she has told me several times that she just wants to use this time to be on her own and not in a relationship. I know this is a line that she was feeding me now, but since she is dating again my mind won't give up the hope that we can date again.)

Sad I know. What's worse is how I found out about all of this. But that requires too much backstory. I don't know what I expect from you GAF, but unfortunately I can't really bring this up to anyone else that I talk to because both me and her share the same friends.

 

[Socreges]

The back stories are often what makes shit like this interesting.

Anyway, stop being a tool. Does that seem fair? Maybe I don't understand the problem.

 

[Boogie]

Umm, she's your ex. She can see other people. You should move on.

Oh, and you shouldn't be dog-sitting for her while she's dating. That just screams "I'm a loser with no self-respect" to me.

 

[Azih]

Kill the dog.

 

[Pochacco]

F.T.D.U.T.A?
...

I second "moving on".

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

I'm going to be harsh, cause you need someone to snap you back into reality, and I really hate it when a guy gets the shaft from a girl.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING LOOKING AFTER YOUR EX-GIRLFRIEND'S FUCKING DOG!?

Are you giving her goddamned charity or something? Do you do this out of the bottom of your heart cause you like to help the less fortunate? Why are you wasting the precious seconds of your life looking after somebody else's shit so that they can go date someone else? Why aren't YOU out there looking for someone? Someday you're going to die, and you can never get the time you spend taking care of your ex's dog back. You understand me? Why are you letting her jerk you around and making you do favours for her? Are you so spineless? Here's a suggestion, before looking after her dog, why don't you just drive her and meet her date? Shake his hand, get to know him, and then watch him walk off with someone YOU'RE NO LONGER WITH!

Honestly, why do you feel the need to help her at all?

She is not your girlfriend anymore, and if you think that by doing this she'll eventually change her mind because you're such a 'good friend' then you're sadly mistaken. Why don't you try asking your ex/female friend to cancel one of her dates one day and look after YOUR pet one day while you go out with another girl and see how she reacts.

You're an independent person and you don't owe your fucking ex a goddamned thing.

I'm really sorry if I come off as harsh, I don't want kick you while you're down, but I'm speaking from experience because I was in the same position as you 2 years ago, I just couldn't see the reality of the situation, cause I was too stupid and blind.

I'm here to tell you to stop doing favours for her and start doing favours for yourself.

 

[boredJonathan]

I know I know. Partly why I created this was to motivate myself to stop being a tool. As for the back story, if it'll make it interesting I'll post.

I had been dating this girl for 4 and a half years before we broke up under very bad circumstances. It was all one big misunderstanding, of course. I thought she had been seeing other people and was no longer interested in me, and she thought that I didn't care that she had been seeing other people.

I moved out the next day, which of course was her birthday, and move back to Illinois. Things kind of get better, before they get worse.

I see her over the holidays for the first time in 6 months and I snap. Move back down to Texas. The Texas thing has been good for several reasons, all not doing with her. In fact, life outside of her is really not too shabby. However, whenever we would meet and talk, we would dance around the whole thing and I'd get the lines about not wanting to get back together because she was enjoying being by herself. (She had a 3 year relationship before mine, so she really hasn't been outside of a relationship in a long time) SO I tried to be cool with this, and just be her friend, but making sure to try and keep the avenue for getting back together open. So finding out today that she has been seeing someone since the begining of December, possibly earlier has obviously done a number on me.

But instead of just feeling lied to and realizing that I was just being fed a line, which don't get me wrong I do realize, I feel like I should try and express my desire to have us date again. Nothing serious, just move and dinner, going out.. ya know.. date. I'd be cool with her seeing someone else and all that jazz..

It's just stupid, because like I said, I know that what I want to do now is ridiculous and fool hardy. Like you said, I need to stop being a tool. But that's the back story.

 

[Celicar]

Damn that's sad.

 

[boredJonathan]

Ah.. I should explain the dog bit.

The dog was ours. We picked it up when it was just a puppy. Up untill I split, it was our dog. Since then, whenever I'd go over the dog obviously remembers me and of course I still care about the dog. She said she was going to be out all day today and wanted to know if I wanted to pick up the dog to spend some time with it.

I only found out about her going out on a date tonight because I went to pick up the dog. She had only told me she was going to be out all day.

 

[boredJonathan]

Oh and Boogie,

I completely agree. I logically understand that she can see other people. It's more the situation in which I found out, coupled with the fact of how I was being led on by her when we would get together to talk.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

I'd get the lines about not wanting to get back together because she was enjoying being by herself.

Dude, so why are you trying to get back together with her again?

But instead of just feeling lied to and realizing that I was just being fed a line, which don't get me wrong I do realize, I feel like I should try and express my desire to have us date again. Nothing serious, just move and dinner, going out.. ya know.. date. I'd be cool with her seeing someone else and all that jazz..

OK, Red, by your own admission, SHE LIED TO YOU! First, do you want to date someone who would lie to you and make you feel like a tool that's expendable and worth no more than a socket wrench? And why would she want to get back with you? You're taking care of the dog and freeing her up to see other people, because she DOESN'T WANT TO BE WITH YOU. Additionally, you should have some confidence in yourself. Why are you settling with being 'the other guy' instead of 'the guy'? Are you so desperately in love with her still that you'll have her anyway you can?

I'd be cool with her seeing someone else...

Red, do you see your own words here? Why can't you date a woman who's solely committed to you? Obviously she's not so perfect if she's willing to use you and lie to you, so let me ask you this: Is it worth your dignity? Why go into a relationship if you know there's another man? Why risk being the one that she might reject instead of finding a woman who's with ONLY you?

Argh, I'll say it clearly. You're still in love with her. THINK ABOUT WHAT SHE'S DOING TO YOU! If this was happening to a friend of yours, would you tell him to keep doing favours for his ex in the hopes of becoming the second guy in her life?

 

[boredJonathan]

Are you so desperately in love with her still that you'll have her anyway you can?

At this point, yes. Unfortunately. I've had problems with having a spine when it comes to these issues, always. Even when we were together, I was the doating boyfriend attending to her needs and such. Its partly the reason why I affected not being upset about the whole 'me thinking she was seeing someone else when we were going out' thing. I wanted her to be happy. It runs in my family. Exscuses the lot of them, I know, but that's why I am posting this here. It's a helluvalot easier to keep these things going in your head than it is to put them down and look at them.

SO yeah, I do see what I am saying. And of course it's degrading doing what I am. There is an amount of self sacrafice tied up in self pity, mixed with some desire to make up for the fact on how I left. Of course though, this all boils down to the fact that I am not over her. I know I should, this is just one of those steps to get through.

I normally would not post stuff like this here, in fact, as the topic says, this is my first. But considering the way in which I found out about her seeing other guys and the friends issue, I needed to vent and here I am.

I don't mean to frustrate you Kuro, and thank you for being so blunt.

This is more just an excersise in putting these stupid thoughts down someplace where it's harder to make light of them.

 

[Lil' Dice]

Go to her house and ask her for your balls back, because it's apparent she's holding them as collateral.

 

[Azala]

I have to know, was she cheating? I'm a bit unclear on the her seeing people behind your back part. If you were saying she was but you didn't care, and that bothered her, or are you saying she wasn't, but she took the sign that you wouldn't care if she did as a sign you didn't care about her?

As for her dating now, has she said she isn't? Part of being by herself for a while might involve playing the field, a few casual dates here and then. As long as she isn't in a relationship with this guy she's not necessarily being untruthful about what she's doing. Maybe she enjoys meeting people, getting out, and doesn't want being single to mean hanging out with girls only or being alone.

Assuming she wasn't cheating, then I think you should express an interest in dating her as that's what you want. But this time, you really have to have a backbone. Part of showing a girl you care is showing her that you won't bend to her will when it goes against your own. Compromise doesn't have to mean being walked on. Being in love also doesn't mean pretending not to care if she's cheating. A little bit of protectiveness can be flattering and healthy. The nonchalant, she can screw anybody and I'm ok with it cause she's happy thing is both unflattering and kind of sickening.

If she was cheating, then you need to stop. It's not worth your self esteem to go back. Consider the dog sitting as joint custody if you will, but don't do her any favors. Do it on your time, when you want, and take the dog for other occasions as well, not when she's dating.

 

[boredJonathan]

Heh, when I drop the dog off I'll be sure to ask for them back.

Speaking of which, should I try and force her hand on this? Show up when this guy is likely to be there? Not to make a scene, but to kind of call her out on it?

I need to bring the dog back tonight anyways, as I do have somethings that I want to get done tomorrow, but she had told me she would give me a call when she was back in to see if I wanted to bring the dog back over.

I thinking I could just show up a little earlier and force her hand on this. Not make a scene, and come off the better person for it.

 

[MC Safety]

Heh, when I drop the dog off I'll be sure to ask for them back.

Speaking of which, should I try and force her hand on this? Show up when this guy is likely to be there? Not to make a scene, but to kind of call her out on it?

I need to bring the dog back tonight anyways, as I do have somethings that I want to get done tomorrow, but she had told me she would give me a call when she was back in to see if I wanted to bring the dog back over.

I thinking I could just show up a little earlier and force her hand on this. Not make a scene, and come off the better person for it.

Don't force her hand. Don't be a jerk. Just return the dog and move on with your life.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Mr. Mercury .. find a hobby. Start working out, take up carpentry or fix some cars. Do something to better your life, so next time she sees you, she will regret treating you like shit.

But you won't even notice. .. because you have moved on.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Dude, don't make things worse.

She's dating someone else, let her date someone else. She doesn't have to justify anything to you because she's your EX GIRLFRIEND for a reason. It's not like she's cheating on you or anything...cause YOU'RE NOT DATING. Just give the dog back, and get her out of your life. Have some confidence in yourself, find someone else.

 

[boredJonathan]

I have to know, was she cheating? I'm a bit unclear on the her seeing people behind your back part. If you were saying she was but you didn't care, and that bothered her, or are you saying she wasn't, but she took the sign that you wouldn't care if she did as a sign you didn't care about her?

When we were together? No. Not that I am aware of, nor do I honestly think she was. Which is why the whole thing came off weird as one big misunderstanding. So more back story is needed. A few months before the shit hit the fan with our relationship, we had stopped actually communicating to one another. Sure we would talk, but nothing important or serious. We both knew that things were going wrong, but we didn't know what. IN turn, this meant that our physical relationship was suffering as well. Well the day before her birthday, we started to fool around a little and then she just went entirely cold on me. Complete 180 degree turn. So I finally just asked her, "Are you not interested in me anymore?" To which she replied, "No, I'm not." Of course, I'm just the teensiest bit destroyed by that, but I asked next, "Is there someone else that you are interested in?" to which I get no reply. And this is when things really started to go into the land of missed meanings. By her not replying, (and granted I did not give her a ton of time to reply, I kind of thought it was a yes or no question.), I pulled away and over reacted. I basically said that I wished she had said something sooner, as I didn't want to hold her back from being happy if she wasn't with me. ANd yeah, in hindsight, it's was a horrible call on my part. Largely to do with what I mentioned earlier, having no real spine in the majority of the relationship. The unflattering part, I only realized later when the whole misscommuncation thing became clear.

We talked a few days after I had been back, and it all became clear that there was no other guy, that I had over reacted and that the main problem with her not being interested in me was basically from medical reasons. (Perscription dugs, combined with her birth control and killed her sex drive in general, add in the fact that we were not talking to each other and you have the setup for what happened.) Now what I feel I should have done at this point was come back, and try and work things out. But I felt that I had made to drastic a decision and that I couldn't fix it by making another one and coming back. Again.. this was a mistake. We continued to talk on and off again, and for few months it was obvious that we were on the same wave length about the fact that things got screwed up and we would try and work through them. But as time went on, she took on this new attitude that she has had while I'm still stuck trying to get things back.

Which is why I am kind of grateful for finding out about her and this other guy. It's forced me to realize that we can't just go back to trying to work things out. We need a new start for anything to happen. So..

As for her dating now, has she said she isn't? Part of being by herself for a while might involve playing the field, a few casual dates here and then. As long as she isn't in a relationship with this guy she's not necessarily being untruthful about what she's doing. Maybe she enjoys meeting people, getting out, and doesn't want being single to mean hanging out with girls only or being alone.

She has not come out and said she is not. I've also not come right out and asked her if she was dating. I had made my intentions clear on wanting to work things out with her, and I got the response of that she is enjoying this time alone. She has also said that she doesn't want to be in a long term relationship right now, and that she thinks I don't need to be in one either.

So I agreed, more because there was nothing else to do. But after actually having sometime to be living on my own, I do get some of what she is saying. It's entirely different living on your own, than with someone else, let alone your parents. As for her enjoying people and checking out the scene, that is definately the impression that I get. However, there is definately this one guy who is more serious than just your casual dating. Not a relationship, but getting there.

Which is why I am so torn, because as you said, if she is just playing the scene, I would like to be apart of that. Not exsclusive, but at least a part of it to start over if possible and go from there. Since I already know that there is someone else, I can not be pissed if she is seeing someone else. Besides, I don't think I could ask her to be exsclusive with me, when its obvious its not something she wants.

Its the fact that I know she has wanted to say something about her seeing other people to me, but has not, that makes me nervous about even starting down that route.

 

[Matlock]

Let me just put it this way: you might as well be licking that guy's nuts yourself.

 

[boredJonathan]

How do you figure, because I am watching the dog?

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Sigh... :\

Save yourself the time you're going to be spending in therapy...

Just let her go...it'll be very hard to do, but if you don't, I can promise you that the person who's heart will end up in the gutter is yours. Find yourself someone else, there's gotta be other women out there who won't lie to you and use you. You deserve more than what she's giving you.

And it's not the fact that you're looking after the dog, it's the fact that you're FREEING HER UP TO SEE SOMEONE ELSE that's bothering all of us.

 

[J2 Cool]

Wow, that's the worst case I've seen since my own, so I'll try to sympathize... You're knee deep in shit. The dog, mess with whenever you truly think about it, don't do her favors. Otherwise, pretend she's not alive. Worry about your own career, lesiure activities, friends, etc. Don't call her, don't message her, nothing. If she contacts you be yourself but attempt to be on your way with your own crap. There's not gonna be a new beginning until you get the puppy on a leash attitude out your system. If you truly want her to be happy, fine. Accept that, wish her good luck at the end of conversations, but make sure you end conversations. Once your sane again, you have your balls, and you got passions in life that take far greater importance than her, then MAYBE you can start over.

And don't blame drugs for her not being interested. Trust me, it's because you have no opinion, no self respect. You're simply her support. Pretty much a tool, a toy, and people lose interest in those. Sorry for being harsh, but don't get all somber and feel pity for yourself. That's what gets you here in the first place. Pick yourself up and create something of yourself. Please. You'll feel a hundred times better. And don't lie to yourself. Things hurt in relationships, don't hide from that. An opinion can never hurt a relationship and you need to be completely honest with her and yourself. And you'll lie to yourself even as your reading this, saying your not lying to yourself. That's a lie. Be honest. And like I said, create something of yourself, no excuses.

 

[Azih]

Quit cold turkey dude, return the dog, never contact her again. If she contacts you be polite but distant and keep the convo short. Move on.

 

[boredJonathan]

And don't blame drugs for her not being interested. Trust me, it's because you have no opinion, no self respect. You're simply her support. Pretty much a tool, a toy, and people lose interest in those.

I had never in thought to question why she was not interested in me beyond the possibility of her wanting to see someone else, or there being some kind of chemical thing from drugs. While I knew that my physical appearance would effect any kind of interest obviously, I never thought that my attitude of putting her happiness in front would mean she would loose interest in me.

So exscuse for a sec while I process that.. mind officially blown.

EDIT - Also, is there not a bit of irony that the way in which I first reacted, in terms of moving out and initially cutting contact, is the way that I should be acting now?

 

[geogaddi]

Drop it all. Find closure. Trust me, the way you are right now is really unhealthy and self-destructive. It's almost like a painful slow death...*SNAP OUT OF IT* then you'll know how to respond.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Also, is there not a bit of irony that the way in which I first reacted, in terms of moving out and initially cutting contact, is the way that I should be acting now?

YES! By doing so you showed her you were ready to move on. That you're a confident man instead of a wuss who asks 'how high' when she says 'jump'

It doesn't matter how you look, if you act like a desperate, needy, fool, you're gonna get dropped faster than Oprah's pants at an all-you-can-eat buffet.

Just move on, if she calls, let her know you're tired of how she's treating you and just hang up. Don't talk to her, don't contact her, don't console her when she needs it, don't email, don't check her blogs or anything.

You mentioned that you were happy when you were single and away from her. Why do you insist on trying to get back together with her? Do you LIKE being tortured? If you read your own words, notice how it seems like you WANT to hurt yourself...

 

[Tommie Hu$tle]

Quit cold turkey dude, return the dog, never contact her again. If she contacts you be polite but distant and keep the convo short. Move on.

Dude he is too weak to do that. The best case for him is to never talk to her again. I have the feeling that if he never calls her back she won't miss anything.

 

[boredJonathan]

Dude he is too weak to do that.

Hey the dog rocks, can't just leave the dog now can I? ( Ok, ignore the fact that I did already once.)

As for Kuro, it's not that I was happy when I was single and away from her. In fact, it sucked being up in Chicago. Moving back down and being on my own is what has been good for me. By being on my own, I mean living on my own. All of these things with her and with me have been royally fucked no matter where I am.

As for reading into me wanting to be tortured, its complicated. I wasn't kidding when I said I come from a long line of family members who have put them self up on some kind of cross for others. It's not excatly how I was raised per se, but it might be in the blood I guess. However, in this situation there is no one to be saving from pain but myself... Guess I'm just not very good at doing that. And that sound horribly filled with self pitty. It's not how I meant it... I'm just trying to explain here.

 

[Lil' Dice]

Dude, don't make things worse.

She's dating someone else, let her date someone else. She doesn't have to justify anything to you because she's your EX GIRLFRIEND for a reason. It's not like she's cheating on you or anything...cause YOU'RE NOT DATING. Just give the dog back, and get her out of your life. Have some confidence in yourself, find someone else.

That's the best piece of advice in this entire thread.

 

[NLB2]

Did you really need to ask this? I mean, I ask some stupid questions on this message board, but didn't you already know the answer?

 

[boredJonathan]

Did you really need to ask this? I mean, I ask some stupid questions on this message board, but didn't you already know the answer?

Of course. Much like your unfortunately locked first sex story, (damn olimario getting away with his desire to give it to guys in their lower orafice), I knew the answer and the reactions I was going to get. (Save for J2Cool's little revelation.) This was more just to vent, and to see those reactions from other people than me.

You know that cheesy device cartoons used to use where there would be the evil devil and the good angel on the shoulder of someone as they decided what to do? Well its like that.. and it gets old when you keep thinking the same situation over and over and over, and getting the same torn reactions even when you know what makes the most sense.

So I posted here, getting excatly what I expected. Perhaps what I needed, as I honestly do feel a hundred times better about this. I don't know how all of this will play out, but it's nice to know that my logical side was indeed fairly logical about all of this. Now it's just a matter of following through.

It'll happen. No one stays hopelessly love lorn forever, right? Plus, it helps to hear from people who have been in similar situations.

So, thanks GAF. Hopefully this wasn't too boring.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

Took me a long time to realize this shit myself. But if you act like a good guy in this world, you're gonna get taken advantage of. Granted, I don't mean act like an asshole to everyone, just know who you can trust....and the fact she's already lied to you shows you can't trust her and you can do better than her.

But I can see what I'm writing here is just wasted energy, I recommend reading articles from this site if you desperately need to change your mind. Tonnes of stuff already archived and he gives some DAMNED good advice, and hopefully you can see the reality of the situation. And I figure since you're wallowing in self-pity, you got some time on your hands and you're looking for answers...well...

HERE they are...

 

[Azala]

First thing, don't make a scene. Don't try and catch her. Because however you do it, it will only leave you looking like a jerk, or very needy, or worse - both. And if you pull off looking uninterested about it then you're right back to play games with her. It might peak some curiosity on her part, it might work, but most likely it won't and you won't be able to maintain it over time. She probably knows you too well. She is not doing anything wrong. Technically she does not need to tell you if she is dating. Her discomfort about broaching the subject with you is very understandable. It doesn't necessarily reak of lies, but compounded with other behaviors it could be a warning sign.

The situation sounds very unfortunate and I feel your pain. By not communicating you alienated each other emotionally, and the physical aspects didn't help. A lot of people don't desire physical intimacy when emotional intimacy is lacking, especially when SSRI's and depression and other factors (like your doormat status) complicate things. It was a large misunderstanding and yes it might be salvageable, but this is not the way. As several people have stated, myself included, being the doting boyfriend to the extent you were is not only unhealthy it is begging for disrespect. If you have any chance with this girl, it is not by setting yourself up to be walked on more.

EDIT - Also, is there not a bit of irony that the way in which I first reacted, in terms of moving out and initially cutting contact, is the way that I should be acting now?

And no, your first reaction is not how you should be acting now. Your first reaction was wrong. You should have clarified things with her, communicated before jumping to conclusions and saying or doing something you didn't mean or want. You went from acting like you didn't care if she cheated, which sends a bad message ('walk on me' and/or 'you don't mean much to me') to making it worse by casting her aside.

What you need to do now, and I can't guarantee it would work but it would salvage yourself - which is more important at this time, is express an interest. You'll always regret it if you don't. Communicate it however you feel is best. A long, proof read again and again letter perhaps explaining the misunderstanding, your feelings towards her then and now, your realization you've been too soft in the past, your determination to fix this in the future (starting NOW), your understanding that yes it seems to be for the best if the two of you live apart for now, but that you want to work on things with her, gradually if you must (though I'm sure you'd enjoy something faster). If you don't want her to date others then state it. And no I'm not talking about that pathetic 'I want her to be happy' crap. Do you really want her to date? If the answer is no, then say it! And let her know in a *non threatening* way that you will be moving on. If she comes around before it's too late great, if not, then while you'll be heartbroken you won't let it stop you.

It is not her place to tell you that she doesn't think you're ready to date again. It seems awfully hypocritical of her considering, and almost like she wants to keep you in line for the future. Play the field now, keep the fun for herself, while you wait and suffer thinking she's doing what you are. No. Absolutely not. I am a sucker for true love, and such a glutton I myself would remain single simply because I wouldn't want to date, there would be no drive. However, I wouldn't hold myself back if there was any interest in anyone, because she's clearly not.

Besides, I don't think I could ask her to be exsclusive with me, when its obvious its not something she wants.

Yes you can. Have more respect for yourself than this. If you date her while she is dating around you're just screwing yourself over. You won't win her back, you won't be getting what you want, you'll just lose more self respect, she'll lose respect for you, and you'll just be closer to the damage she does to your heart. If you put down your limits, consider what makes YOU happy you can gain respect for yourself, show her (and tell her if you like) that you value yourself and your feelings for her too much to let them be cheapened like this - you might stand a chance of winning her back. You might not, but you can at least walk away knowing you have your self respect, and you have developed a back bone and hopefully developed some skills and restraint that will pay off in the future.

1. She comes running back.
2. She dates a bit and eventually works her way back to you.
3. She becomes involved with someone else and never comes back.

All of those are better than being the second fiddle as another relationship develops right before your eyes. Emotional torture, don't do it!