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[natjjohn]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hildren/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.ccea3d0372aa

The small shelter along the Texas border to Mexico held 60 beds and a little playground for children. Rooms were equipped with toys, books and crayons. To Colleen Kraft, this shelter looked, in many ways, like a friendly environment for children, a place where they could be happy.

But the first child who caught the prominent pediatrician’s attention during a recent visit was anything but happy. Inside a room dedicated to toddlers was a little girl no older than 2, screaming and pounding her fists on a mat. One woman tried to give her toys and books to calm her down, but even that shelter worker seemed frustrated, Kraft told The Washington Post, because as much as she wanted to console the little girl, she couldn’t touch, hold or pick her up to let her know everything would be all right. That was the rule, Kraft said she was told: They’re not allowed to touch the children.

“The really devastating thing was that we all knew what was going on with this child. We all knew what the problem was,” Kraft said. “She didn’t have her mother, and none of us can fix that.”

One thing immediately became clear to Kraft: Those who work at this shelter, whom she declined to name for privacy reasons, are doing what they could to make sure the children’s needs are met. The children were fed; they had beds, toys, a playground and people who change their diapers. But there are limits to what workers could do. Not only could they not pick up or touch the children; they could not get their parents for them.

“The really basic, foundational needs of having trust in adults as a young child was not being met. That contradicts everything we know that the kids need to build their health,” Kraft said.

Such a situation could have long-term, devastating effects on young children, who are likely to develop what is called toxic stress in their brain once separated from caregivers or parents they trusted. It disrupts a child’s brain development and increases the levels of fight-or-flight hormones in their bodies, Kraft said. This kind of emotional trauma could eventually lead to health problems, such as heart disease and substance abuse disorders.

“While not all of the children we are ripping from their parents will suffer the full consequences of toxic stress, many may,” child psychologist Megan Gunnar of the University of Minnesota told BuzzFeed News.

“The age of the child matters,” Gunnar said. Children under age 10 are of deep concern, she said. “Those under 5 should get us all running around with our hair on fire to get this practice stopped.”

Kraft said the separation from their parents is inflicting serious damage to the children.

“The kids need to come first,” Kraft said. “America is better than this.”

Nearly 4,600 mental-health professionals and 90 organizations have joined a petition urging Trump, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and several elected officials to stop the policy of separating children from their parents.

The petition says:

These children are thrust into detention centers often without an advocate or an attorney and possibly even without the presence of any adult who can speak their language. We want you to imagine for a moment what this might be like for a child: to flee the place you have called your home because it is not safe to say and then embark on a dangerous journey to an unknown destination, only to be ripped apart from your sole sense of security with no understanding of what just happened to you or if you will ever see your family again. And that the only thing you have done to deserve this, is to do what children do: stay close to the adults in their lives for security.

It further says: “To pretend that separated children do not grow up with the shrapnel of this traumatic experience embedded in their minds is to disregard everything we know about child development, the brain, and trauma.”

As of Thursday, 11,432 migrant children are in the custody of the Department of Health and Human Services, up from 9,000 at the beginning of May. These numbers include minors who arrived at the border without a relative and children separated from their parents.

For Kraft, lost in the partisan wrangling and finger pointing was the long-term impact on children.

“As partisan and as divisive as the whole topic of immigration is, we need to start with what’s right,” she said. “Can we start with just keeping parents and children together while we figure out some of the other details?”

I like the last quote. Can workout whether going to grant asylum or not without traumatizing kids.

 

[TrainedRage]

Couldn't this easily go in the other topic you JUST made about the same subject? Or are you gonna spam this to get attention?

 

[natjjohn]

New information. Thought folks would find this useful to see how horrible this is.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Midterms can't come soon enough.

Not being allowed to touch the children makes sense, but in reality it's fucked up.

 

[nemiroff]

Midterms can't come soon enough.

OR,

Responsible parents can't come soon enough

 

[King of Foxes]

I like the last quote. Can workout whether going to grant asylum or not without traumatizing kids.

So the big bad Americans who uphold their laws and borders are traumatizing the kids but the parents who take them illegally over the border, through deserts or by human traffickers are not?

 

[Sàmban]

This forum is such a fucking disaster my god. We have completely lost the ability to talk about anything without people victim-signaling or teamsporting for their political party.

I think we need to hold illegal immigrants accountable for trying to get into this country illegally. But I also think there is a better way than what the current administration is doing.

Every fucking thread on this subject (and in general) is some “whatabout hillary/obama” clusterfuck by the usual suspects completely stripped of nuance where anyone showing up at the border is some hardened rapist criminal, despite the fact that many desperate people are clearly being caught in the crossfire. Despite the numerous stories of ICE deporting law-abiding legal immigrants with misdemeanors which is not supposed to be the case.

Like, we can find a fair and civilized way to enforce our laws. That is NOT what is happening right now.

 

[DESTROYA]

As a parent why put your child in this type of situation to begin with?
The parents know what’s going to happen but they still do it anyway, shouldn’t they be held a little responsible as well?

 

[EviLore]

This forum is such a fucking disaster my god. We have completely lost the ability to talk about anything without people victim-signaling or teamsporting for their political party.

I think we need to hold illegal immigrants accountable for trying to get into this country illegally. But I also think there is a better way than what the current administration is doing.

Every fucking thread on this subject (and in general) is some “whatabout hillary/obama” clusterfuck by the usual suspects completely stripped of nuance where anyone showing up at the border is some hardened rapist criminal, despite the fact that many desperate people are clearly being caught in the crossfire. Despite the numerous stories of ICE deporting law-abiding legal immigrants with misdemeanors which is not supposed to be the case.

Like, we can find a fair and civilized way to enforce our laws. That is NOT what is happening right now.

Self-reflection please, Sàmban. You're going into every thread dragging it into metacommentary and making a scene, @ing me personally to try to get my attention, submitting reports to the mod team. You're describing yourself more than your surroundings right now. This is the mod team's responsibility to handle as necessary in order to keep discussions healthy, civil,, and on-topic.

 

[zumphry]

As a parent why put your child in this type of situation to begin with?
The parents know what’s going to happen but they still do it anyway, shouldn’t they be held a little responsible as well?

Seeking asylum isn’t illegal. Hope this helps!

 

[DESTROYA]

No one said it was but knowing your kids are going to be taken from you as parents you should have some accountability.

 

[zumphry]

lol, anything to keep those boots licked.

They're not exactly posting big-ass signs outside, in Spanish, that say "your children will be taken from you"

 

[luigimario]

No one said it was but knowing your kids are going to be taken from you as parents you should have some accountability.

So you would look for asylum yourself and leave your children at home?

 

[DESTROYA]

So you would look for asylum yourself and leave your children at home?

Maybe?
Have one parent seek asylum while the other ones does the parent thing home or leave the kids with a relative.
It’s what my family did to become American citizens, is it easy? Absolutely not but it’s possible.
Don’t give me that crap that parents don’t know what there getting into,word gets around pretty fast.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Maybe?
Have one parent seek asylum while the other ones does the parent thing home or leave the kids with a relative.
Don’t give me that crap that parents don’t know what there getting into,word gets around pretty fast.

Well now it does because trump escalated the policy into insanity.

And no offense but what qualifications dp you have to give advice on what parents seeking asylum should do? All you can really do is inform people that Trump will fuck them up the ass if they attempt. Armchair woulda coulda shoulda sounds pretty dismissive.

 

[Hotspurr]

These kids don't deserve this. Pretty harsh policy if you ask me.

On the one hand, crime in Mexico and South America is horrendous with all their gangs. Their government's have absolutely failed them. If you ask me who should be punished, it's their government's for not being tough on crime. Now apparently it's America who is responsible for saving these people. Illegal immigration or not, for alot of these people it's the choice between get killed by gangs or get caught at the border. So at least you can understand they are not being frivolous.

On the other hand I am sure there are plenty people who want a better life and don't want to wait in line, so they abuse the definition of asylum to serve their needs. If these are the people who get separated from their kids, they had it coming, and it's on them.

Asylum should be reserved for those who really need it. The US is applying a blanket strategy to everyone and unfortunately there is major collateral damage.

I'll end by saying, to the right wingers here, maybe a bit less heartless and understanding, to the bleeding heart liberals, maybe be a bit less naive and idealistic?

 

[Panda1]

Seeking asylum isn’t illegal. Hope this helps!

Exactly and mexicans have zero need of asylum and any south Americans should seek asylum where they find it I.e Mexico. Unlike any African or Asian real asylum seekers under death who cannot just walk and seek 'asylum' and die.

 

[gohepcat]

So the big bad Americans who uphold their laws and borders are traumatizing the kids but the parents who take them illegally over the border, through deserts or by human traffickers are not?

How many times do you have to be told that the parents are taking them over the border they’re turning themselves in at the border and seeking asylum and then having their children taken away? There are no laws being broken

 

[Hotspurr]

How many times do you have to be told that the parents are taking them over the border they’re turning themselves in at the border and seeking asylum and then having their children taken away? There are no laws being broken

Can you provide a link for this? All I keep finding is that people crossing ilegally that get slapped with this policy, not legitimate asylum seekers that try to register. If someone enters USA without the proper procedure for seeking asylum, it basically.means they give up their opportunity for asylum, no?

 

[Whataborman]

As a parent why put your child in this type of situation to begin with?

This.

Much of the blame for this situation falls on the parents but it seems that has been ignored in order to use the issue as a way to criticize the current administration.

Also, I wonder how these places compare to the average foster home/orphanage/homeless shelter/etc... in the United States? Likely very little difference but that isn't newsworthy

 

[pramod]

I know I will get blasted for saying this but I think the parents are perfectly OK with this. They know the US isn't going to harm their kids and eventually the kids will be released to their relatives or foster care which will be much better than any situation they had in their home country where they faced hunger and violence. Eventually the kids will get citizenship and can bring their parents over. Which might be their ultimate goal after all.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Can you provide a link for this? All I keep finding is that people crossing ilegally that get slapped with this policy, not legitimate asylum seekers that try to register. If someone enters USA without the proper procedure for seeking asylum, it basically.means they give up their opportunity for asylum, no?

https://www.aclu.org/cases/ms-l-v-ice

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/hrf-crossing-the-line-report.pdf

 

[TheShadowLord]

https://www.aclu.org/cases/ms-l-v-ice

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/hrf-crossing-the-line-report.pdf

and it looks they are going to sue the Trump administration. I wonder how that would be played out in the courts/media.

 

[dolabla]

As a parent why put your child in this type of situation to begin with?
The parents know what’s going to happen but they still do it anyway, shouldn’t they be held a little responsible as well?

Right. You would think the responsibility falls back on the parents since they put their families in this position, but nope it's all Trump's fault. Didn't you see that cage pic the from the Trump administration in 2014/15? Man, that got a lot of backlash back then.

These people have to be discouraged from coming here illegally. They don't have any respect for our laws which is why they think they are entitled to just hop our borders. If they want to come here, they need to respect our laws and do it the legal way.

 

[natjjohn]

Right. You would think the responsibility falls back on the parents since they put their families in this position, but nope it's all Trump's fault. Didn't you see that cage pic the from the Trump administration in 2014/15? Man, that got a lot of backlash back then.

These people have to be discouraged from coming here illegally. They don't have any respect for our laws which is why they think they are entitled to just hop our borders. If they want to come here, they need to respect our laws and do it the legal way.

 

[NoLootBoxDev]

I rarely post anything here, but I am amazed how people blame the parents for something the govermnet is doing, and justify it.

For me any country which do something like that is going Nazi. Anyone who supports this is a terrible human being like it or not.

 

[dolabla]

That sucks and all, but again why did the parents think they could just start pouring over our border and we are required to take care of them? There are no guarantees for asylum. They're coming here illegally.

 

[natjjohn]

That sucks and all, but again why did the parents think they could just start pouring over our border and we are required to take care of them? There are no guarantees for asylum. They're coming here illegally.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

 

[Deleted member 12837]

That sucks and all, but again why did the parents think they could just start pouring over our border and we are required to take care of them? There are no guarantees for asylum. They're coming here illegally.

No, the end result isn't guaranteed, but there is an obligation for the US to recognize their claims for asylum and process them, not turn them away immediately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

Also, as part of the same agreement:

The contracting states shall not

• impose penalties on refugees who entered illegally in search of asylum if they present themselves (Article 31)

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

"They don't pay taxes", "They bring in drugs", "They're violent", "They don't speak our language", "They will take our jobs", "They won't follow our laws", "They're a different religion than us"

 

[Sàmban]

Self-reflection please, Sàmban. You're going into every thread dragging it into metacommentary and making a scene, @ing me personally to try to get my attention, submitting reports to the mod team. You're describing yourself more than your surroundings right now. This is the mod team's responsibility to handle as necessary in order to keep discussions healthy, civil,, and on-topic.

Well, I certainly agree with you about the moderation team’s responsibilities, and I can see where pointing this stuff out in many threads can be backseat mod-y. I’ll back off from now on. The hyperpartisanship is getting out of hand though; I really hope it’s something the team is watching for the sake of the forum.

As for the rest, I’m not really sure I understand what you’re trying to say. I’ll admit to some degree that I’ve gotten to the point where I have little tolerance for partisanship. But I don’t see how that qualifies as victim-signaling or whatabouting. As far as reporting people, I can count on one hand the number of people I’ve reported since the birth of newgaf. One of them was a random insult against me and the user got a warning for it; of the other ~4-5, one was posting white supremacist bullshit and I was told the situation had already been addressed (I didn’t know that) and the others were things I felt needed mod attention for being low-effort clickbait inflammatory posts. It seems to me like you’re being a bit dramatic about my actions on this forum (minus the moderation bit which is fair criticism I think) as a reactionary counter to the criticisms I levied in my original post. But that’s just my take.

Either way, I think your comment is something that would have been better as a PM to be honest - that way we avoid this potentially thread-derailing back and forth in public.

That’s all I’ll say about this.

 

[pramod]

I rarely post anything here, but I am amazed how people blame the parents for something the govermnet is doing, and justify it.

For me any country which do something like that is going Nazi. Anyone who supports this is a terrible human being like it or not.

Then maybe they should stop coming here? Who is forcing them to come here?

BTW this has happened under Obama too. Why did no one care back then? Why are people only caring now?

 

[Hotspurr]

https://www.aclu.org/cases/ms-l-v-ice

http://www.humanrightsfirst.org/sites/default/files/hrf-crossing-the-line-report.pdf

I'm not sure you read my post. I asked about whether those who were showing up at the border as 'checking in' were arrested and separated from their family. What you linked me to are a lawsuit.about separation and a document that asylum seekers are being turned away ilegally.

Seems a few things are happening:

1) US may be making it difficult for asylum seekers to enter by agents not believing their stories
2) physical barriers to seek asylum may exist artificially by US officials
3) those who decide to circumvent these physical barriers, and choose to break US law, then face the consequences of being separated from their families

So I will buy that US border is being harsh on asylum seekers. What I won't buy is that they are arbitrarily being detained for just showing up or for applying for asylum. This is a gross misrepresentation. The US not playing fair does not give you the right to break the rules and cross the border illegally. Doing so, while I whole heartedly sympathize with the asylum seekers, does not absolve them of breaking US law (crossing illegaly).

Just read the official DHS statements as well:

1. It is perfectly legal to apply for.asylum at the border
2. Separation from an adult will only.happen if that adult is.criminally prosecuted (this apparently is not new)
3. Criminal prosecution happens ONLY if.you cross without authorization.

Let's get the facts straight before continuing, shall we?

 

[oagboghi2]

"They don't pay taxes", "They bring in drugs", "They're violent", "They don't speak our language", "They will take our jobs", "They won't follow our laws", "They're a different religion than us"

6/7 of those excuses are pretty solid reasons for why you shouldn't be allowed to come here.

"They won't follow our laws"
That's pretty obvious.

 

[zumphry]

Exactly and mexicans have zero need of asylum and any south Americans should seek asylum where they find it I.e Mexico. Unlike any African or Asian real asylum seekers under death who cannot just walk and seek 'asylum' and die.

Lol everyone has the right to seek asylum in neighboring countries. Fuck off wih your stupid ass ‘they don’t have it so bad!’ bullshit. save it.

 

[oagboghi2]

Lol everyone has the right to seek asylum in neighboring countries. Fuck off wih your stupid ass ‘they don’t have it so bad!’ bullshit. save it.

And every nation has a right to deny it.

 

[Deleted member 713885]

Heres a good plan..

You head to the border. Apply for Asylum. Walk back to whatever border town you did so in your own country and wait to find out if your asylum was granted.

What they did..
Walk to the border, got turned away, illegal crossed, then asked for asylum..

And what do we do? Just give them an apartment while they wait? Cut them a weekly welfare check till they find out?

And how are they supposed to do this?
How do they background check THOUSANDS of people a day instantly?!?! and let them in?!

It's like you guys think it's a guy at a booth, he asked your name, why you want into the US and he hits a button and it says "Jaun has no criminal charges! Juan and his families story is true about needing asylum! We have housing and social net ready for them!!"

These people are coming by the THOUSAND! What do we do?!?

 

[Rookje]

According to the National Review:

Every indication is that the migrant flow to the United States is discretionary. It nearly dried up at the beginning of the Trump administration when migrants believed that they had no chance of getting into the United States. Now, it is going in earnest again because the message got out that, despite the rhetoric, the policy at the border hasn’t changed. This strongly suggests that the flow overwhelmingly consists of economic migrants who would prefer to live in the United States, rather than victims of persecution in their home country who have no option but to get out.

In April, the New York Times reported:

Some migrants have admitted they brought their children not only to remove them from danger in such places as Central America and Africa, but because they believed it would cause the authorities to release them from custody sooner.

Others have admitted to posing falsely with children who are not their own, and Border Patrol officials say that such instances of fraud are increasing.

 

[Bryank75]

On the one hand I can think of nothing worse than being separated from your children and unaware of their fate,then I believe this is short term to send strong negative signals to immigrants and act as a deterrent. Tough measures sometimes have to be taken and the ultimate outcome is all you can judge it upon.

 

[KINGMOKU]

There are rules to asylum and everyone knows what they are, certainly those decrying what's happening the most. The vast majority of people who's kids are being taken away do not qualify for asylum and that's not an opinion, that's a fact.

Second, when a parent(s)break the law as a citizen their kids are also taken, not thrown in detention/prison with them. Illegals are not going to get more rights then citizens, and people know this already.

We are a country of laws, and if we ignore them on a Consistant basis we can also look forward to a future of asylum seeking under false pretenses on the Canadian border.

This whole situation is nothing more then a political talking point for the mid-terms and its disgusting. The law is the law and everyone knows it. The whole of congress can get off their ass's and change it but it would seem they want to fight more then talk. The president has already outlined what has to be included along with their own changes.

As I stated in a previous thread on a similar topic, all responsibility has shifted away from the parents who are taking these gambles with their children. Lets not forget who is creating this issue. Its not the republicans, nor the democrats. Its the parents. Its also these other failed states who can never seem to get it together to make life better for their citizens.

What no one also talks about is the ansolute root of the problem here;

Piece of crap countries that can't protect their own citizens, create jobs, or properly govern themselves, so their citizens pour into our country. Perhaps we should be taking a hard look at a real solution to this problem and stop infighting about people who are obviously breaking the law, but also running from hellhole countries.

I am dead serious about looking at going after these countries in economic, and military ways. Enough is enough already. The U.S. hasn't added new states in awhile, perhaps its time to start again.

Im dead serious. If people had the stomach for it, the solution here is obvious.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

I'm not sure you read my post. I asked about whether those who were showing up at the border as 'checking in' were arrested and separated from their family. What you linked me to are a lawsuit.about separation and a document that asylum seekers are being turned away ilegally.

It seems to me that it's more likely that you didn't read the links carefully. The ACLU lawsuit concerns a mother and her daughter who arrived at the border, presented themselves, and requested asylum. Her daughter was taken from her with no explanation, then transported halfway across the country, and they didn't see each other for months.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrant...s/mother-and-child-fled-congo-only-be-cruelly

How does that not exactly describe what I've bolded in your above quote?

 

[camelCase]

This forum is such a fucking disaster my god.

That's cuz you post this in every thread

 

[ickythingz]

So I just want to clarify. Leftists think that doing something illegal in a country should be allowed? This is what happens when you don't respect another country. This is what happens when you break the law. I have no sympathy for these people. If these immigrants are as smart as I keep being told they are then they would never end up here. And yet here they are. This proves several facts leftists choose to ignore. These people have no value and nor do their children.

 

[camelCase]

So I just want to clarify. Leftists think that doing something illegal in a country should be allowed? This is what happens when you don't respect another country. This is what happens when you break the law. I have no sympathy for these people. If these immigrants are as smart as I keep being told they are then they would never end up here. And yet here they are. This proves several facts leftists choose to ignore. These people have no value and nor do their children.

Good point, they flat out shouldn't be here and their parents are at fault. It hurts to say but we aren't a dumping ground for people in bad situations.

 

[Havoc2049]

How many times do you have to be told that the parents are taking them over the border they’re turning themselves in at the border and seeking asylum and then having their children taken away? There are no laws being broken

Actually, the common way to seek asylum is to present your case at a US Consulate in your home country and request asylum. If asylum is granted, then the asylum seekers are given travel documents and are able to travel to the United States legally and present their case for asylum. Just showing up at a port of entry isn't the way to go about it and chances are, you will be turned away. Ports of Entry aren't set up to investigate and adjudicate asylum cases. Many of these people are also showing up with no evidence to back their claims of persecution.

If these people are in Border Patrol custody, then that means they entered the United States without inspection at a designated Port of Entry and in that case, they did violate the law and can be charged with 8 USC 1325, Entry Without Inspection (EWI). EWI is a misdemeanor and they can serve up to 6 months in prison. If they have a prior deportation and are re-entering the country illegally, they can be charged with 8 USC 1326, a felony.

These laws were passed by congress and are nothing new and have been on the books for decades. This administration has decided to strictly enforce these laws. If elected officials to the Congress and Senate don't like these laws, then they need to pass new laws.

No, the end result isn't guaranteed, but there is an obligation for the US to recognize their claims for asylum and process them, not turn them away immediately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_Relating_to_the_Status_of_Refugees

Also, as part of the same agreement:

Asylum Seekers and Refugees are two separate classes.

Past Asylum Seekers have done themselves no favors, as many of them have abused the system when granted entry into the United States and never even show up for their immigration hearing and remain in the United States illegally. It depends on the country of origin and their status, but it can be anywhere from approximately 30% to 90% that never show up to their immigration hearing.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...ion-court-appearances-135-000-will-go-missing

 

[Dunki]

Heres a good plan..

You head to the border. Apply for Asylum. Walk back to whatever border town you did so in your own country and wait to find out if your asylum was granted.

What they did..
Walk to the border, got turned away, illegal crossed, then asked for asylum..

And what do we do? Just give them an apartment while they wait? Cut them a weekly welfare check till they find out?

And how are they supposed to do this?
How do they background check THOUSANDS of people a day instantly?!?! and let them in?!

It's like you guys think it's a guy at a booth, he asked your name, why you want into the US and he hits a button and it says "Jaun has no criminal charges! Juan and his families story is true about needing asylum! We have housing and social net ready for them!!"

These people are coming by the THOUSAND! What do we do?!?

That is honestly where I stand. Yes it does suck for these children but they should blame their parents and no one else. . To note we have these kind of camps here as well. Not like cages but like this

I think what is important to note that these detentions take 24-36 hours. In GErmany you will stay there for 2+ years in the worst case. But not less than 1 year. I think it is acceptable for kids 8+ to stay like this a few hours as long they are not alone. It sucks but how else would you solve this

 

[Hotspurr]

It seems to me that it's more likely that you didn't read the links carefully. The ACLU lawsuit concerns a mother and her daughter who arrived at the border, presented themselves, and requested asylum. Her daughter was taken from her with no explanation, then transported halfway across the country, and they didn't see each other for months.

https://www.aclu.org/blog/immigrant...s/mother-and-child-fled-congo-only-be-cruelly

How does that not exactly describe what I've bolded in your above quote?

Fair, I just didn't realize you'd use an anecdotal story to prove some en masse detention of asylum seekers for wrong reasons. Just so you understand, for nearly every single case where a parent is separated from their child, they have broken the law and entered illegally.

 

[Deleted member 12837]

Fair, I just didn't realize you'd use an anecdotal story to prove some en masse detention of asylum seekers for wrong reasons

I'm not attempting to prove anything like that. You literally asked for evidence that legitimate asylum seekers were being affected by these policies, and that all you could find were examples of people illegally crossing into the US first. I gave you a concrete example with little room for misrepresentation. I could dig up more reports, but I don't really think there's some arbitrary number N of them that would shift your opinion at all.

Just so you understand, for nearly every single case where a parent is separated from their child, they have broken the law and entered illegally.

Neither you nor I have any way of backing up or disproving that assertion, unless you work at a border facility. The press has only recently been given access, and it's still fairly limited. We'll likely have a better picture over the coming months.

 

[Max Legroom]

The administration needs to get their talking points straight on this one. It's hard to claim it's not happening, blame it on the Democrats, and say Trump is finally getting tough on immigrant crime all at once. Gonna have to pick one.