[Wccftech via Jez Corden] Next-Gen Xbox Rumored to Support Backward Compatibility at Hardware Level
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
True. Also as much as people clown on Jez (and it's easy to do: he's a sperg), he does have links to people like Greenberg and I'd argue Phil, too, in coordinating messaging and putting stuff out when MS wants people to know.
Would put Parris and Destin in that same camp. They're literal MS mouthpieces.
That's interesting, and I guess it would make more sense to limit Steam support to accessing games already purchased, vs. having the storefront itself available. Because fi such were the case, Xbox Store would be crippled and obsolete overnight, not to mention even Game Pass would have trouble in that type of environment.
MS can't really "do" anything about that on Windows and the same goes for things like the ROG Xbox Ally, but they do have that level of control with Xbox OS. That's why I at first thought the whole strategy was going to be continuing with Xbox OS but running whitelisted Windows programs through another hypervisor layer. And, for things like Steam, they'd have the storefront available but behind a Game Pass tier.
Maybe instead it's something like running Xbox OS and still allowing whitelisted Windows apps with a hypervisor layer, but Steam support isn't tied behind a Game Pass tier? Trade off being, it's just to access games you've already purchased elsewhere, not actual access to the Steam store itself. I guess that could work somehow.
I'm still more curious if it's going to be a "genuine" custom APU/hardware design more akin to a console or closer to cribbing whatever off-the-shelf stuff they think can work, incurring the overhead costs in performance. Because that's kind of what they're seemingly doing with the ROG Xbox Ally, even though they've modified Windows to be more efficient with the device type.
And other things too, like if they make the system modular for upgrades, such as officially licensed & compatible GPUs, system RAM (assuming it's not using an APU or not using unified memory) and the such, in addition to typical additional storage options.
Dr.D00p
Member
Maybe Xbox think their studio purchases and software pipeline over the next decade will finally produce enough enticing software to support a 'one last go..' traditional style console.
Fess
Member
Having the full Steam store there would be complete suicide for their own store. But it's already on life support so I guess they could do it anyway.
Steam is really the ultimate Trojan horse. Valve wants to enter the living room, if they can get Microsoft to do it through Xbox then it's bye bye Microsoft Store. And once they have a new audience in the living room, in comes SteamOS devices which runs all those games the new audience just bought.
MrAlwaysRight
Member
Steam will not run on the next traditional Xbox Console if there is one, the Steam integration is for the PC based Handheld.
Negotiator101
Member
I don't think anyone is expecting a massive seller but I'd imagine 25m plus is a more realistic target that they can reach.
35million Gamepass subscribers currently tells us Xbox still has a decent market share and as for exclusives I think it's fair to assume timed console exclusives are still very much on the agenda.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Probably mean as much X360 BC as we have right now, unless they decide to revisit it again.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
From my experience observing consumers, people's minds do not reset along with the introduction of new hardware, 32x, Saturn and Dreamcast are examples of this. I mean the future of xbox is the present of xbox.
xrnzaaas
Member
No bluray drive will be a problem right at the start. There's a ton of Xbox games you can't buy anymore, because they've been delisted / removed from the store. And what about your current physical collection...
One of the reasons why I bought XSX is that I can buy cheap X360 games (among the supported ones) and then download the BC version, not even worrying about the condition of the disc (just needs to boot to be recognized).
One of the reasons why I bought XSX is that I can buy cheap X360 games (among the supported ones) and then download the BC version, not even worrying about the condition of the disc (just needs to boot to be recognized).
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Bry0
Member
That would make more sense.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
There's just no way it doesn't have Steam, Epic etc all in there. Would be DOA. They've been talking about that publicly for a good while now, and just branded the ROG with Xbox. It's going to be a PC with a hardware solution for BC.
I actually bet they will phase out selling anything that isn't Play Anywhere on it so they can stop the licensing headaches piling up. The rest you will have to get from other stores, which is fine.
I actually bet they will phase out selling anything that isn't Play Anywhere on it so they can stop the licensing headaches piling up. The rest you will have to get from other stores, which is fine.
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
I can see MS trying to confuse customers by constantly promoting their storefront while making it hard to get the version on Steam.
I wouldnt put it past them at all to try and make customers think they're buying a copy from STeam, but actually buying from the MS Store.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
That is what they HAD to do at some point. That is the only thing consistent with the "everything is an Xbox" marketing. But since it would anger a lot of existing fans, the question is when to do it.
But you're not. You can purchase the disc player if you want. Having a single sku is better.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
Do it when you enable the other stores through Windows
Explain the long term vision for the whole thing. Hardware solution for BC buys them 7 years but they need to also explain what happens after that with emulation or licensing updates.
Geometric-Crusher
"Nintendo games are like indies, and worth at most $19" 🤡
This new Xbox seems like a... My god, Gears will be released on the Playstation, just like Forza and Cod. In addition to not having exclusivity, the biggest problem is in the sale of games, you know Xbox consumers do not buy games by the millions, like FF16 (selling games is the heart of this business). They recently created the slogan ''this is an Xbox''.
The Xbox brand doesn't need to expose itself by launching new hardware, as this would be potentially harmful. What's going on Phil Spencer?
The Xbox brand doesn't need to expose itself by launching new hardware, as this would be potentially harmful. What's going on Phil Spencer?
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
What I've always wanted is getting the Xbox games off Xbox and into Windows. At that point it is play anywhere. Hardware BC is better than nothing, but it's the same as PS3 launch systems being able to play PS2 games. Not even close to as good as an emulation solution that can work across all Windows devices. A hardware BC option means it will only last another 7 years. An emulation solution means it will last as long as PC is a thing.
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adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yes, I meant more in the sense if the next hypothetical Xbox will cut away all BC and be a glorified PC box only.
Crispy Gamer
Member
Yeah this isn't a mass market machine it's not selling for a loss they'll go balls to the wall with the technology
Team Andromeda
Member
Hope this means the system is a monster and looking to pack a serious punch with shifts in tech, if Xbox feel the need to use Hardware for BC
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
It does seem just stupid enough that MS would try it
Total side note and not directing this at you just a footnote
I am no long bringing info here
I will talk about stuff we know for sure about hardware or even games but can't talk about future plans moving forward and this will be my only comment on it
Sorry all (and no mods did not force this, they have been actually very supportive and very willing to listen over the years here)
This is actually interesting for a number of reasons (if it is true).
Including the physical hardware/SoC/miniaturiaztion of older Xbox hardware on the motherboard of the new system does technically allow backward compatibility with no further work or legalities involved. Depending on what SoC is being included, you are guaranteed at least the level of BC that you get right now should they go ahead and do this.
On the flip side, however, doing this is prohibitively expensive (it's why Sony and Nintendo both stopped doing this), and can prohibit further software enhancements for older games because it is being run on native hardware.
Very interested to see where Microsoft takes this.
Including the physical hardware/SoC/miniaturiaztion of older Xbox hardware on the motherboard of the new system does technically allow backward compatibility with no further work or legalities involved. Depending on what SoC is being included, you are guaranteed at least the level of BC that you get right now should they go ahead and do this.
On the flip side, however, doing this is prohibitively expensive (it's why Sony and Nintendo both stopped doing this), and can prohibit further software enhancements for older games because it is being run on native hardware.
Very interested to see where Microsoft takes this.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
March Climber
Gold Member
Because a hybrid console makes more sense at this point, especially with the initiative set for the portables.
I was sold on the idea of an Xbox hybrid that could play Steam, Epic, and GoG games with a good interface that works on controller.
I am not sold on an Xbox Series X 2. If they do that, the current Series X will be the last Xbox I ever buy.
DeltaPolarBear
Member
No one expects you to leak forever.
However, I do expect you to spill the beans in a few years once it is no longer a commercial concern for anyone due to being out of date. So keep your notes and store them somewhere will you? Or write a book or something.
onnextflix5
Member
Bro If it's hw based emulation it has to be closed platform, look at the switch 2, there is has never been hardware based emulation on an open platform.
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DannyDanger
Member
Isn't this a given with the x86 platforms, and sticking to amd? I imagine Sony's next one will be the same
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
I will someday as I have a folder full of screen shots of messages and texts and I did make notes as I always wanted to be able to look back at what was correct at the time and how wrong things were at times
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
It's okay to do something new. The only requirement for hardware is sell it for a profit, because it isn't likely to be subsidized. They can make a windows surface device, and include unique BC hardware if they want and brand it Xbox. And sell it for a profit since it will be open store. That's my uninformed prediction anyway.
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The way MS and in particular Phil Spencer talk about breaking down walled gardens and the desire for more open platform with multiple stores (a recurring theme about the future of Xbox) and people believe MS will release another closed Xbox device?
And at the same time continue updating Windows to feel more and more like an Xbox when gaming?
Anything is possible but a new closed Xbox (incompatible with PC games) would compete against MSs open Windows11 XboxPC devices in all shapes and forms. IMO There's only one winner.
And at the same time continue updating Windows to feel more and more like an Xbox when gaming?
Anything is possible but a new closed Xbox (incompatible with PC games) would compete against MSs open Windows11 XboxPC devices in all shapes and forms. IMO There's only one winner.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I mean, they are a 3rd party publisher now. No one needs any signs. I'm just being logical.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
I also think a 100% traditional Xbox console on a multiplataform strategie is a very bad option. You need to offer more and something different.
Well, in my opinion, MS's best option is a well-designed hardware/box, with customizations, while Microsoft will offer DevKit and support to developers and studios, as with traditional Xbox consoles. They will offer the most optimized version on the Xbox Store, while the "PC version" will be available on other stores, which will be accommodated in the OS.
Xbox console tradicional users will likely opt for the Xbox Store version, as it will be the best place to play on that console. Meanaly, they have acces to multiple games not on console or Xbox console as a PC user have.
Of course, I don't think in a Windows-console situation, like a current handheld where you can install Linux or SteamOS at your convenience. There is no business or benefit for the ecosystem in that option.
If it has both Xbox Store and Steam on it, I think you are overestimating the appeal Xbox Store will have to those users. Most of them will definitely defect to using Steam instead for new game purchases; the Xbox Store would just be there for older legacy titles in their collection.
There's also no reason IMO to offer Steam access, if you're just going to make it obscenely difficult to actually use it. That kind of negates it as a selling point, and feels more like they'd have it in there as a buzzword. Which, well, would ultimately do more harm to them than good.
Basically, if Steam is there, it can't be half-assed, but if it's anything beyond simply accessing & playing your Steam library (i.e also brings the storefront to Xbox), then Xbox Store's days are numbered. Even Game Pass would start to struggle.
Basically yeah. It'll be quite niche, but then again the PC handhelds so far have been quite niche too. Even if I think Steam Deck's is somewhat due to limited retail distribution & marketing (beyond Steam itself) rather than demand per se.
But the market for PC handhelds should keep growing annually; an Xbox console with some of that type of functionality & access could in theory see some similar initial market saturation and then gradually grow annually, maybe to say 3-5 million yearly, IF it's done exactly right.
Which there is still immense doubt as to if MS could actually pull it off. But you know who could likely do it right if/when they get around to it? Valve.
Timed exclusives are 100% OFF the agenda because the only timed exclusives Xbox have left are from small studios who lack the pipeline to do Day 1 outside of Xbox & PC. And of that, the games themselves are usually very small & niche. I don't think anyone's expecting Grounded 2 to do big numbers, for example.
TBF SEGA had other issues that affected them between 32x, Saturn & Dreamcast. They kept rushing systems to market, alienating current customers by cutting short the active system's software support. And with 32x & Saturn, in general the software offerings (some of which were fantastic) weren't enough to make them stand out against systems like PS1 & N64.
That'll get MS sued for sure.
If they lose that "It can play Steam & PlayStation games!" talking point, they'll turn into confused sheep.
Imagining that's why some are disappointed, anyhow.
Aye that's totally fine man; just know we always appreciate what dudes like yourself, K KeplerL2 , S SneakersSO etc. bring to these discussions when it comes to insight. But we also understand you have to be careful because of legalities.
Well, unless you're in China. Then you can leak Switch 2 speaks and get away with it, seemingly
I think you're overestimating Steam's traction in an environment where the simplest, most accessible, and most convenient option for users is to stay within the ecosystem they've been tied to for years or decades, where there are advantages and features they're comfortable with... and where the best version of a given game is available.
If we're talking about closed, customized hardware where MS makes DevKit and tools available to developers and studios... there's little doubt that this version of the Xbox Store will be preferable to the typical unoptimized PC version, which isn't the typical plug-and-play version.
From here, time will tell. First, we'd need to know the method and difficulty with which MS would provide access to Steam or other stores.
Xbox 360 slim
Member
Just remember, tons of the guys who get banned here for console warring, end up on iconera, lmfao
SeanyQuest
Neo Member
wow, interesting timing after the meltdowns over the Non-Xbox Xbox Handheld.
Jez always to the rescue.
Lmao it's so true. Every time there's bad news. Phil texts him the talking point and it's out that same day
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
You lost me right there. if tje option for Steam exists, then gamers will migrate towards Steam.
The Windows store is absolute crap for PC Gaming. The games on there have issues, virtually no modability and they generally aren't as stable as the Steam/GOG versions.
That stuff matters to PC gamers. The only people who might be inclined to stick to Xbox Store on PC are those who are already there.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
Add on and all future titles will be digital bookmark it!
reinking
Gold Member
Something I have wanted them to do for a long time. I really want to see an Xbox branded PC and how it stacks up against ROG/ (the old) Alienware. I have always imagined they would be designed well. I just do not need them to tell me the PC is an Xbox.
bender
What time is it?
RoboFu
One of the green rats
Don't half quote me.
bender
What time is it?
Yes, sir.