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[Messofanego]

The Guardian: Gaza crisis: 'Hamas killed my friend; we need to kill them'

Israeli soldiers mourn during the funeral of Major Tzafrir Bar-Or, one of 13 soldiers who were killed on Sunday.

Tomer Siyonov, 22, a friend of the dead soldier, who finished his own compulsory army service two months ago, drew deeply on a cigarette as the eulogies were delivered. "Hamas killed my friend; we need to kill them – not just the Hamas militants but all the people in Gaza," he said.

"What else should we do? Lose more friends? We don't have a choice – if we don't fight to the end, they will kill us."

A young woman, one of three crying throughout the funeral, had been to school with Malko. Asked about what should now happen in Gaza, she was guarded. "It's complicated," was all she said before turning to comfort her friends.

"All of our people are united," said Gal Tuttnauer, 25, eating shawarma in the city centre. "Of course I'm against a ceasefire, we need to continue. Hamas needs to be wiped out, and that will take time."

"Why isn't the foreign media talking about what's happening in Syria? Israel is seen as the black sheep. No one cares about Israel, because Hamas and the Palestinians are the underdogs, and everyone likes an underdog. They have rockets and we have a big army, so we're the always the bad guys."

Asher Dobol, 57, whose son is currently fighting in Gaza, said: "Of course I'm worried about him, but – this time – everyone thinks the government must not stop until they've destroyed all the tunnels. It was right to go in [on the ground]. We must destroy Hamas and take over Gaza."

In contrast to previous conflicts, he added, "this time the world is supporting Israel. The world understands we cannot live under rocket fire."

Both men said they regretted Palestinian civilian casualties, but blamed Hamas rather than the Israeli army. "A lot of people were killed in Shujai'iya because Hamas uses them as human shields," said Tuttnauer, adding: "Palestinians don't care about human life, whereas we appreciate life. We want to live, they want to die."

Support for the military operation is strong, but not universal, among Israelis. Demonstrations and rallies calling for peace have attracted small numbers, but one in Tel Aviv on Saturday evening mustered about 1,000 people. Like previous peace protests, it was attacked by rightwing activists, who threw eggs and plastic bottles.

In Haifa, a mixed city, an anti-war protest on the same day was confronted with rightwingers, chanting: "Death to Arabs". The city's Israeli-Arab deputy mayor and his son were beaten up.

Attempts by the right to pass laws which limit the capacity of pro-peace organisations and campaigners to operate effectively have also sapped the confidence of and support for the Israeli left.

Haggai Matar, 30, an Israeli journalist and political activist, said the actions and statements of many Israeli politicians fuelled the far right.

"We have seen politicians passing bills against human rights NGOs … and very high-ranking politicians saying that the NGOs and leftists are a cancer and are traitors and trying to destroy our society – these are not words of regular democratic or political conflict," he said, adding that young people in Israel were now often more rightwing than their parents.

"Our parents would remember having gone to Palestinian cities for shopping or seen more Palestinian workers coming into Israel. It was never an equal relationship but it was a chance to meet, and that you haven't had for 20 years or more," he said.

Rhoel Chaguel and her daughter, Ron, epitomise that generational change in attitudes among many Israelis towards their Palestinian neighbours.

Rhoel, a mother of three whose family were Arabic-speaking Jews from Morocco, had spent time in hospital recently with her son, Simon, and met families from Gaza who were being treated there. Rhoel conversed with the mothers, and often brought them clothes and food. "They are afraid of Hamas," she said.

Ron, 17, and just six months away from beginning her national service, which she plans to spend working in a hospital rather than serve in the military, disagreed. "When they are healthy they will go back to Gaza, these boys," she said. "They will grow up and become terrorists."

Yeah, I don't think they're interested in peace. Israeli left being squashed by the government. Pro-peace people being beaten up. Not as much exposure to Palestinians so younger people leaning to the extreme right more. Everyone's moving to the right and riding on emotion. This is not a democracy.

This is some apocalyptic shit.

 

[UnluckyKate]

a conflict that will never end. Even if gaza or palestine is gone, many more arabs will take the fight on Isreal after that.

 

[Cloud Strife]

The cycle of vengeance, fucking horrible.

Heart goes out to all involved and I hope that a solution other than killing will present itself to either side.

 

[DeathyBoy]

"Hamas killed my friend; we need to kill them – not just the Hamas militants but all the people in Gaza," he said.

An absolutely revolting mindset, and a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point.

 

[Sadist]

... ... ...

That's some depressing shit. I get they're angry, but how can you spout that nonsense about killing everyone in Gaza? Both sides are growing insane.

 

[Rebel Leader]

"Hamas killed my friend; we need to kill them – not just the Hamas militants but all the people in Gaza," he said.

oh fucks sake =/

 

[xKebob]

Of course there are extremists, on both sides and as an Israeli I can tell you that 99% of the people here want this to be over with, and I'm sure the other side is just the same.

 

[Siegcram]

Yeah, like it would end if they'd accomplish that.

This conflict is probably the closest humanity will ever get to a functioning perpetuum mobile. Fucking depressing.

 

[Aaron]

a conflict that will never end. Even if gaza or palestine is gone, many more arabs will take the fight on Isreal after that.

The rest of the Middle East have their own problems. I doubt they'll care when Palestine is gone.

 

[Chariot]

a conflict that will never end. Even if gaza or palestine is gone, many more arabs will take the fight on Isreal after that.

Waht do you mean gone? When everyone who lived there is dead? If you just meant when every non-jew was thrown out of "their" land, then you have thousands, millions of people who will remember that Israel took their homes and slayed their people with snipers, white phosphorus and splinter bombs.

 

[devilhawk]

oh fucks sake =/

Nothing like a hot soundbite from someone attending a funeral.

 

[Volimar]

While I don't doubt a lot of people there think this way, it's pretty shitty to expect reasoned, logical responses from people in mourning.

 

[NegroNinja]

Situations like these are horrible. Why can't people realize that peace is so much easier than constant fighting?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

a conflict that will never end. Even if gaza or palestine is gone, many more arabs will take the fight on Isreal after that.

Pretty sure the rest of the M.E doesn't care about Palestinians. In fact, it seems the general opinion of them isn't all that diffident to how the Roma are viewed and treated throughout most of Europe.

Shunned, hated, pushed to the extreme fringes of society, etc.

 

[Siegcram]

While I don't doubt a lot of people there think this way, it's pretty shitty to expect reasoned, logical responses from people in mourning.

I don't think it's too much to ask to not call for genocide, even at a funeral.

But I guess the conflict is just too ingrained for most to distinguish between Hamas and other militant insurgents and palestenian civilians.

 

[anotherusername]

Most people want peace, but their emotions are being fuelled by people the acting same as Hamas and just lumping everyone together as whole. Granted it doesn't help at all when you have videos going around of mothers praising the fact their child killed jews / Israeli's etc.

Also, all those meme type things and videos being posted to Facebook that's currently inundating my feed at the moment, are not going to help the situation at all - its only going to add fuel to the fire.

 

[MacNille]

A cycle of hatred on both sides.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

In contrast to previous conflicts, he added, "this time the world is supporting Israel. The world understands we cannot live under rocket fire."

Hmm, not so sure about this bit. I'm sure "the world" would not support Israels extermination of the Palestinians in Gaza.

 

[Dastardly Jerks]

A freshly crippled mind is not usually the most logical or reasonable.

 

[Coriolanus]

Genocide, ho!

Tbh, Bibi also said some monstrous things on camera.

Any chance of a non-conservative government being elected in Israel?

 

[NateDog]

Not that I expected it would get any better, but it seems set in stone that this is not going to end any time soon. Really is a horrible and sickening situation.

 

[enewtabie]

Wow the guy is upset at the loss of his friend. . People speak with raw emotion after things like this. Plus there is a lot of hate on both sides.

 

[wsippel]

It's almost as if nobody ever learned anything...

You can't win a conflict like this using brute force. It never worked. Israel cannot win this conflict without the support of moderate Palestinians. If they don't intend to give them their own, fully recognized and autonomous country, they need to build infrastructure and improve their situation, then fight Hamas and other extremists the only way you can effectively fight terrorists: Using police methods, not military methods and equipment.

 

[Hitokage]

It's almost as if nobody ever learned anything...

You can't win a conflict like this using brute force. It never worked. Israel cannot win this conflict without the support of moderate Palestinians.

Actually, they can: simple conquest.

 

[Siegcram]

Actually, they can: simple conquest.

Yeah, that's bound to get the non-militant palestinians on their side. Brilliant.

 

[wsippel]

Actually, they can: simple conquest.

What I described is how successful conquests typically work, actually.

 

[ambientmystic]

There's something I don't quite get about this conflict.

Israel has the means to completely eradicate the Palestinians from the face of the earth in a few days with their massive ass modern army/airforce, but they resort instead to decades and decades of slow and gradual confinement/isolation/dehumanization/settlement encroachment, ensuring that they'll always be at risk from disaffected elements of the Palestinian population via ineffectual rocketfire.

Why the fuck are they pussyfooting about? It doesn't make any sense for them to stretch the conlicts out into periods of temporary truces/peace and short term operations, it's rather inefficient. Why not just have one massive ass campaign to end the issue once and for all?

The US are already shielding them from any international retaliation/condemnation thanks to AIPAC and critics to Israeli policy can just be called anti-semitic. The Muslim world will just offer the usual lipservice support and verbally condemn Israel while it's just business as usual behind closed doors.

(I do not support what Isreal are doing in Gaza. I'm just wondering what their motivations are in prolonging this bullshit.)

 

[KHlover]

And this is why we'll never have peace in the Middle East. Continued atrocities from both sides.

Spoiler

My money is on Israel to actually follow through with that one day. Unlike Hamas THEY have the means to actually kill every last person in Gaza :/

 

[neorej]

Hamas killed my friend; we need to kill them – not just the Hamas militants but all the people in Gaza," he said.

Meanwhile in Gaza

IDF killed my friend; we need to kill them – not just the Israeli soldiers but all the Jews in Israel," he said.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

"We need to kill them" : sounds like something you would hear from Hamas usual propaganda.

I really don't think pointing the finger on one side exclusively is going to help.

 

[dan2026]

What are they even fighting over anymore?

 

[dripdripsplash]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israeli-pr...thers-sisters-deter-terrorist-attacks-1457836

An Israeli academic has claimed that raping wives and mothers of Palestinian Hamas militants is the only thing that could deter further terrorist attacks.

The remarks by renowned Middle East scholar Mordechai Kedar of Bar-Ilan University were made three weeks ago after the grim discovery of the bodies of the three kidnapped Israeli teenagers, but the recording was published online (in Hebrew) on Monday.

"The only thing that could deter a suicide bomber is knowing that if caught, his sister or his mother would be raped," said Kedar on Israel Radio Bet

"It sounds very bad, but that's the Middle East," he continued. "You have to understand the culture in which we live. The only thing that deters [Hamas leaders] is a threat to the connection between their heads and their shoulders."

 

[Hitokage]

Yeah, that's bound to get the non-militant palestinians on their side. Brilliant.

My point was that if you're not interested in peace at all, then what the non-militants think is irrelevant. They're in the way regardless.

What I described is how successful conquests typically work, actually.

It works the brutal way too. Obviously it's a couple hundred years late for that, but that's the work in progress.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

There's something I don't quite get about this conflict.

Israel has the means to completely eradicate the Palestinians from the face of the earth in a few days with their massive ass modern army/airforce, but they resort instead to decades and decades of slow and gradual confinement/isolation/dehumanization/settlement encroachment, ensuring that they'll always be at risk from disaffected elements of the Palestinian population via ineffectual rocketfire.

Why the fuck are they pussyfooting about? It doesn't make any sense for them to stretch the conlicts out into periods of temporary truces/peace and short term operations, it's rather inefficient. Why not just have one massive ass campaign to end the issue once and for all?

The US are already shielding them from any international retaliation/condemnation thanks to AIPAC and critics to Israeli policy can just be called anti-semitic. The Muslim world will just offer the usual lipservice support and verbally condemn Israel while it's just business as usual behind closed doors.

(I do not support what Isreal are doing in Gaza. I'm just wondering what their motivations are in prolonging this bullshit.)

Not even the US would be willing to support them if they carried out the genocide of 2m people.

 

[Siegcram]

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/israeli-pr...thers-sisters-deter-terrorist-attacks-1457836

That is some scholar.

He seems to confuse the culture of the Middle East with the one of Westeros.

 

[Chuckie]

That is some scholar.

He seems to confuse the culture of the Middle East with the one of Westeros.

Wow... indeed. These are some straight up Gregor Clegane tactics :/

 

[Chariot]

What are they even fighting over anymore?

Israeli building illegal settlements in Westbank and bullying non-jews out of the land, Hamas firing rockets on to Israel, Israel bombing Gaza not caring if they hit childs, innocents, foreigners or hospitals, Hamas trying to get through tunnels into Israel, Israel sniping already downed men who search for their families, the murder of three Israeli children that may or may not be killed by Hamas, Israel destroying the houses of people who are just suspected to maybe murdered the children, ...

A lot is happening these days.

 

[FlyingSaucer]

Not even the US would be willing to support them if they carried out the genocide of 2m people.

Recent history has shown that US public (as well as the public from most western democracies) is able to agree to virtually anything is you blow up a tower and instill in them a daily fear of being killed by terrorists while commuting to work each morning.

 

[cwmartin]

Israeli building illegal settlements in Westbank and bullying non-jews out of the land, Hamas firing rockets on to Israel, Israel bombing Gaza not caring if they hit childs, innocents, foreigners or hospitals, Hamas trying to get through tunnels into Israel, Israel sniping already downed men who search for their families, the murder of three Israeli children that may or may not be killed by Hamas, Israel destroying the houses of people who are just suspected to maybe murdered the children, ...

A lot is happening these days.

That's still just fighting, why are they doing this to each other? (That's what he was getting at)

 

[Siegcram]

Recent history has shown that US public (as well as the public from most western democracies) is able to agree to virtually anything is you blow up a tower and instill in them a daily fear of being killed by terrorists while commuting to work each morning.

How is 9/11 relevant to this? Like at all?

 

[Dryk]

Israel destroying the houses of people who are just suspected to maybe murdered the children, ...

It was worse than that, he was a teenager/young adult so it was his entire family that got thrown out of their home because he might have done something

 

[Timedog]

If my friend/family member is killed I'm not going to suddenly start talking about killing all the people that look like the killer. That makes no fucking sense. There's plenty of people that don't think like that. Stop rationalizing. If you say those words after tragedy you almost assuredly thought them before, even if you weren't able to admit them out loud. Quit trying to excuse the horrible comments of racist individuals.

Also note that these comments are from individuals and not necessarily indicative of a want for ethnic cleansing by the entire population of Israel. Hence the peaceful protests.

 

[Codeblue]

Meanwhile in Gaza

Yeah, the only stories that give me hope anymore are the people who lost loved ones but felt empathy instead of hate. We need more of that.

 

[Chariot]

That's still just fighting, why are they doing this to each other? (That's what he was getting at)

My opinion?
Israel want their whole holy land and palestinensi are pissed that Israel takes their land where they lived for hundred of years, just because the bible says so. And in the recent conflict the flame was the murder of three israeli teenagers who were murdered by someone. Israel just assumed it was Hamas and attacked Gaza whereupon Hamas fired their rockets. And the rest ist the circle of escalating violence and pent-up anger.

It was worse than that, he was a teenager/young adult so it was his entire family that got thrown out of their home because he might have done something

Yeah. To me it looks pretty clear, that Israel isn't just doing defense. They're doing some cleansing.

 

[wsippel]

It works the brutal way too. Obviously it's a couple hundred years late for that, but that's the work in progress.

I'm not sure it ever truly worked. Even the Roman Empire often used the methods I described more than two thousand years ago.

 

[Vyroxis]

Not even the US would be willing to support them if they carried out the genocide of 2m people.

The US would talk a big talk, waggle our finger at them, all while sending them more money on the down low and promising to have their back should the boogie man scare them.

 

[RangerX]

Jesus christ. The UN security council really needs to be reformed so that the necessary measures can be taken against Israel to prevent them committing any further war crimes. Its is shameful that the world is letting this happen. You would think after the horrible persecution that Jews endured they would have some sympathy to what it means for others.

 

[jchap]

Good thing the leadership doesn't feel the same way. You can rest assured that if the goal of the Israeli effort was massive civilian casualties the death toll would easily be 1000 fold.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Not even the US would be willing to support them if they carried out the genocide of 2m people.

Yes they would. Tell them it's the War on Terror 2.0 and wave a few American flags, sing the national anthem a few times, repeat the BS lines as much time as needed via 24hr news corps and majority of Americans will be on board.

 

[Dopus]

Good thing the leadership doesn't feel the same way.

I guess you're right. They just want to ethnically cleanse the land instead of committing all out genocide.