Support NeoGAF

[Fjordson]

Spicer, we get it. You didn't love Red Dead as much as most people.

Really glad to hear Garnett likes Shadows of the Damned. I can't wait to play. And I can't imagine anyone disagreeing about the soundtrack. It's nothing short of amazing. Can't wait for the full thing in August.

 

[JaxJag]

Strange how the podcast in the past has touched on shooter fatigue, but when a game like Alice: Madness Returns pops up they don't bother playing it (going by the show notes).

 

[burgerdog]

Strange how the podcast in the past has touched on shooter fatigue, but when a game like Alice: Madness Returns pops up they don't bother playing it (going by the show notes).

I'm pretty sure review copies of Alice were sent out the week before E3 and by then they might have been too busy to play it. Doesn't mean they can't go back and play it, of course, but they probably have other games on their plate now.

 

[Zeliard]

Every hour in the game world millions of people die. He is making the choice of killing a few to save a lot. Clearly you disagree with the way he tries to go about that, but there is no question about the effectiveness of this approach.
Hence my "the end justifies the means" comparison. And the false flag operations to garner support against Bertrand is the very same idea.

The "ends" has Cole personally killing a whole bunch of innocent people that he didn't have to in order to achieve similar means. Is good guy Cole somehow devoid of powers? Evil Cole's destructiveness comes at an over-the-top unnecessary cost and that's what makes him evil, and fun, to play as.

The fact that there is a good guy path means there is always an obvious and far less destructive alternative, so I'm not sure how you can try to say the end justifies the means. That isn't the point of evil Cole; he's the "what if" Cole with crazy powers but who uses them to a nefarious purpose, and it would be great if they built a game's storyline around him (and it would be fitting of the title). :> Not nearly enough games where you play as the actual villain in the story.

I think your Dark/Light side comparison is apt. I disagree that there is no moral complexity to be found in that situation. Clearly authors that write Star Wars expanded universe disagree with that notion or they wouldn't explore this very topic in some of the books or upcoming videogames. ;-)

There's no moral complexity to be found in what Infamous takes from it. Evil powers are more offensive-based and more destructive, good powers focus on defense and mitigating damage to innocents. What's the moral conundrum found in "focus damage to enemies" versus "destroy everything and everyone?" Infamous doesn't particularly seem interested in using the dichotomy for any deeper means - it's a gameplay conceit.

The black and white is found everywhere. Good Cole is cheered on and helped by citizens; Bad Cole is jeered and attacked. Good powers are blue and focus the attack on baddies; evil powers are red and attack indiscriminately. Visual differences between the two Cole sides become almost literally black and white. So where's the gray?

 

[Grisby]

Strange how the podcast in the past has touched on shooter fatigue, but when a game like Alice: Madness Returns pops up they don't bother playing it (going by the show notes).

Alice is a long game too. So maybe they havent gotten around to it yet.

 

[snoopeasystreet]

The LA Noire and Red Dead on PC discussion was a bit weird. I think the main reason people want Red Dead on PC is to see it running at 60FPS and at a high resolution. It's already a great looking game on consoles but it'd be stunning on a PC.

 

[benny_a]

The "ends" has Cole personally killing a whole bunch of innocent people that he didn't have to in order to achieve similar means. Is good guy Cole somehow devoid of powers? Evil Cole's destructiveness comes at an over-the-top unnecessary cost and that's what makes him evil, and fun, to play as.

You're arguing in hindsight. My interpretation of what you're saying: "After having played both versions I don't see why he has to be such a meanie. The quest would've been completed anyway." That's not the point I'm making. But I've been trying to make the point for so many posts now that anyone reading it either already got it is not going to get it.
I can't explain myself better than the way I did.

What's the moral conundrum found in "focus damage to enemies" versus "destroy everything and everyone?" Infamous doesn't particularly seem interested in using the dichotomy for any deeper means - it's a gameplay conceit.

Every single post in this topic I've made I've made arguments from the story and the way narrative works in this game.
And there I think they explore interesting issues such as the "false flag operations" I've been bringing up since the very first post.

So where's the gray?

Nowhere. Never said it was anywhere. Never made an argument in support of that. Very first post after your first reply conceited as much.

And with this I'm done.
(Don't read this as being frustrated or being annoyed at you, I think the conversation is just turning in circles and people want to discuss more than some tangentially related issue based on one sentence by Spicer. )

 

[Zeliard]

You're arguing in hindsight. My interpretation of what you're saying: "After having played both versions I don't see why he has to be such a meanie. The quest would've been completed anyway." That's not the point I'm making. But I've been trying to make the point for so many posts now that anyone reading it either already got it is not going to get it.
I can't explain myself better than the way I did.


Every single post in this topic I've made I've made arguments from the story and the way narrative works in this game.
And there I think they explore interesting issues such as the "false flag operations" I've been bringing up since the very first post.


Nowhere. Never said it was anywhere. Never made an argument in support of that. Very first post after your first reply conceited as much.

You asked for people to explain why they thought Infamous' choice-based system was poor; I said I thought it was too binary, i.e. black and white, i.e. no gray. Or even an attempt at gray, but rather extremes, which serve to let them liven up the gameplay. I've been very clearly saying these things since my first post.

What on earth have you been trying to argue with me for if you accept that? All I've been saying is that there is no moral complexity to be found in those choices, and that they're instead built on the gameplay rewards - do I want this power or that one? Do I want to play this way or that way? It's their way of dressing up the game's leveling mechanic. I should have probably just brought up the fact that even the game consistently uses the terms "Good" and "Evil" in my first reply but I guess I like arguing about stupid shit. :>

 

[Tashi]

Zune (lol) ???

Cool bro.

Thank you for uploading it Zune marketplace. I look forward to listening to this weeks episode.

 

[Neuromancer]

I got to say I think you guys sold me on F3AR (well when the price drops anyway). The co-op and multi sound pretty interesting.

Also Spicer shouldn't you have been wearing a Wii-Goldeneye shirt instead?

 

[Pikelet]

Call of Duty is a fast, twitch shooter. Battlefield is not. They play nothing alike, and Call of Duty will sell between 2 to 3 times more. 30 fps or not just doesn't matter at all.

This would make sense if you were talking about Battlefield 2. The singleplayer footage for 3 looks pretty much exactly like a Call of Duty game, sans vehicles of course. I don't think anybody really knows how the multiplayer will work out considering that all they have let people play is a small infantry-based map. I would not be surprised if it feels quite a bit like Bad Company 2, sad as that makes me.

 

[seady]

I am still amazed at how they have NOT play have NOT speak anything about Zelda Skyward Sword after E3 - other than a line from Jeff saying he is more excited for Darksiders 2 than Zelda.

Yet they talked about some of the crappier unknown games they played at E3. Shows you they rather play those shit than Zelda.

 

[JaxJag]

I am still amazed at how they have NOT play have NOT speak anything about Zelda Skyward Sword after E3 - other than a line from Jeff saying he is more excited for Darksiders 2 than Zelda.

Yet they talked about some of the crappier unknown games they played at E3. Shows you they rather play those shit than Zelda.

I think it's because Zelda has become a very tired franchise.

 

[CarbonatedFalcon]

So when they were talking about the glut of HD remakes...Garnett just wants backwards compatibility? Another thing about remakes is that it makes the game available again, especially if it was rare. Sure you can hunt down games online, but sometimes they might be expensive (e.g. Earthbound for the NES) - remakes give the games a store presence again.


And I still really want you guys to discuss Terraria! It's a shame that it hasn't come up yet. That and hopefully some of the new EVE outrage if it hasn't blown over by next week.

 

[sprsk]

I did not get the game flap joke till like 2 weeks ago but no w whenever I hear Garnett say Game flyapp i bust out laughing.

 

[Neuromancer]

I did not get the game flap joke till like 2 weeks ago but no w whenever I hear Garnett say Game flyapp i bust out laughing.

Put it on your game flap

 

[Riposte]

I think it's because Zelda has become a very tired franchise.

That doesn't stop them from talking about Call of Duty, which "sameness" has noted everywhere by everyone. Zelda has the benefit of not coming out every year and, in this case, a completely new combat system(which you wouldn't know if you only got your information from podcasts since no one is talking about it). It is quite odd, no matter how you slice it.

EDIT: They will certainly be talking about it when it comes out. Probably love it too. (It might be quickly forgotten though.)

 

[Mrbob]

Hearing the Fear 3 talk is a bit depressing. The Call of Dutification in this industry (creatively bankrupt?) sucks.

 

[JaxJag]

Hearing the Fear 3 talk is a bit depressing. The Call of Dutification in this industry (creatively bankrupt?) sucks.

Yup, sounds like everything I liked about the FEAR franchise is pretty much gone.

 

[Visualante]

PC only gamer reporting in, I don't have a HD TV or console.. so yeah I am in the waiting boat for many console games. Recent examples, Fez and Limbo. Enjoyed a lot of discussion, especially about authorship in games.

 

[Massa]

Hearing the Fear 3 talk is a bit depressing. The Call of Dutification in this industry (creatively bankrupt?) sucks.

Did you not like the Project Zomboid talk? I thought it was fascinating.

 

[Tobor]

Hearing the Fear 3 talk is a bit depressing. The Call of Dutification in this industry (creatively bankrupt?) sucks.

They talk about Fear 3 again? What is this, like the fifth time? It's a DOA sequel in a crappy franchise that's guaranteed to bomb.

 

[IMACOMPUTA]

Thanks again guys for playing my music submission!
If you guys liked it, head over to http://www.thefelixculpa.com/

 

[mattp]

It's funny that Garnett and Jeff were suggesting Shadows of the Damned feature "a game by Suda 51"... That's exactly what they did!

It says "A Suda 51 Trip" front and center on the game box.

Just came here to post this

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Thanks for the mention/answering my questions, Garnett I was playing Mario 64 when I heard my name and I started to pay more attention and died after collecting the last red coin of the level, haha.

Well done on pronouncing my username correctly too!

 

[snoopeasystreet]

Well done on pronouncing my username correctly too!

I always read your name Floridium Viridium. When Garnett said it out loud, I was like "oh, that's how you say it".

 

[eznark]

I like how quickly and forcefully xav contradicted his statements from last week:

Last week: shacknews doesn't care about tech stuff since that stuff has no bearing on the experience

this week: Battlefield is doomed because it is going to run at 30 fps!!!

Also Christian, no need to be apologetic. The inFamous series is better than anything Rockstar has done since Bully.

 

[ChristianSpicer]

Also Christian, no need to be apologetic. The inFamous series is better than anything Rockstar has done since Bully.

Ha. I certainly wasn't trying to be apologetic. I think the other guys tried to say I was.

I think there is a difference between "better" and something I (or you or whomever) find "more fun." This applies in movies, music, TV, and games too.

inFamous 2 has tons of story problems. The world is so unrealistic (people going to work, etc or being on the streets at all) but I find the play mechanics to be so much fun. Plus I think the game is selling those mechanics, the action, the exploring, etc. It isn't a game that is getting people interested b/c of its deep, involving story.

 

[eznark]

Ha. I certainly wasn't trying to be apologetic. I think the other guys tried to say I was.

I think there is a difference between "better" and something I (or you or whomever) find "more fun." This applies in movies, music, TV, and games too.

inFamous 2 has tons of story problems. The world is so unrealistic (people going to work, etc or being on the streets at all) but I find the play mechanics to be so much fun. Plus I think the game is selling those mechanics, the action, the exploring, etc. It isn't a game that is getting people interested b/c of its deep, involving story.

The world is intentionally un-realisitc. It's a comic book world. Would any person ever live in Gotham City? No, of course not, it's where every super villain congregates. Normal people would move.

Rockstar gets a pass for it's poor storytelling, awful pacing and diametrically opposed game world v. story world (I'm so conflicted about murder despite murdering thousands in that past ten minutes!) or mechanics being inconsistent with the story so they are dropped sometimes (RDR's dead eye) because it makes an effort to be grandiose. Game writers eat that shit up generally speaking. If you make an effort to tell a "good" story (even if that story is just something you've seen a dozen times on Law and Order or other cop serials...Heavy Rain) game writers tend to reward you if you pulled it off or not.

I think inFamous is more fun most definitely but also a flat better game because it accomplishes everything it sets out to do. It makes you feel like a super hero and lets you play through a ludicrous comic book story in a ludicrous comic book world. At no time is the story world broken so that you can play with your mechanics. When I injure civilians, I go heal them. If I don't, they die. If I kill enough of em, they boo me. In GTA 4 I'll murder people by the thousands but then feel bad when a gang banger kills himself because he is lonely. Give me a break.

 

[Xater]

Battlefield 3 is a very different game than Modern Warfare 3. The only reason they're often brought up in the same conversation is because EA's been working for months to have people do that, see the two as being in the same league, as the "two big shooters" instead of just the one (not EA's) we're used to.

Call of Duty is a fast, twitch shooter. Battlefield is not. They play nothing alike, and Call of Duty will sell between 2 to 3 times more. 30 fps or not just doesn't matter at all.

Also Garnett has clearly no idea how CoD performs on consoles. It runs at sub-HD resolution, that is how they achieve 60fps. And then like in the case of PS3 Blops they don't even really run at 60. The tech is not really that great at all.

 

[Bog]

What was the name of the zombie PC game they talked about?

 

[Neuromancer]

What was the name of the zombie PC game they talked about?

Project Zomboid

 

[TelemachusD]

If JeffCannata had any taste, he would know that Just Cause 2 has the best traversal mechanic of any open world game. Parachute grappling across the world is so fun and quick, I rarely used any vehicles.

........

My main problem with Battlefield 3 on consoles isn't 30 vs 60 fps; it's the 24 players on console vs. 64+ on PC. I played quite a bit of MAG, really enjoy the large scale battles, and was looking forward to Battlefield 3 providing a new big player count game, so 24 max is extremely disappointing. I'd prefer crappier graphics if it meant I could have 64 player matches.

 

[Mrbob]

I'm with Splicer on the morality issue in Infamous 2. I just reached the second island in the game and agree the choices are still extremely binary. At the same time it doesn't bug me either. The fun in Infamous is messing around in the city with your super powers. I enjoy the limited destructibility the game offers as well. Being able to see towers come crashing down or walkways attached to buildings adds a nice touch. The side missions are a lot better in I2 as well. More varied overall even when you are doing a similar type of side mission. Thankfully no more bomb diffusing side missions! Game might not be perfect but it is pure fun and on track to being my favorite open world game passing the original Crackdown.

At the very least Infamous 2 helps make up for some of the pain which is Crackdown 2. Now that game was a huge disappointment.

Did you not like the Project Zomboid talk? I thought it was fascinating.

Yeah it sounds really cool. I'm going to have to check it out.

 

[Neuromancer]

If JeffCannata had any taste, he would know that Just Cause 2 has the best traversal mechanic of any open world game. Parachute grappling across the world is so fun and quick, I rarely used any vehicles.

........

My main problem with Battlefield 3 on consoles isn't 30 vs 60 fps; it's the 24 players on console vs. 64+ on PC. I played quite a bit of MAG, really enjoy the large scale battles, and was looking forward to Battlefield 3 providing a new big player count game, so 24 max is extremely disappointing. I'd prefer crappier graphics if it meant I could have 64 player matches.

The first Weekend Confirmed I ever listened to was Jeff complaining about Just Cause 2, he really hated it... I'm not going to lie, it was hard to listen to. Seems like it fit perfectly into his 'more fun than good' category but alas it was not to be.

 

[Fjordson]

Also Christian, no need to be apologetic. The inFamous series is better than anything Rockstar has done since Bully.

That's loco.

 

[FStop7]

From now on, this thread needs to be called "Garnett Lee's Weekend Confirmed".

That whole conversation was cringeworthy.


I really liked this week's song. It started off kind of slow, but the last half was excellent. Kind of a mix of Funeral for a Friend and a few bits of Weezer-esque harmonizing.

 

[anadwin]

Not to hijack the thread, but is the song that closes weekend confirmed an original mix from Del Rio? If not, what is the name of the song and/or artist?

Thanks!!

 

[StevePharma]

Not to hijack the thread, but is the song that closes weekend confirmed an original mix from Del Rio? If not, what is the name of the song and/or artist?

Thanks!!

It's one of his own productions

here's the song on Del Rio's Bandcamp space

It's my guilty pleasure song.... I hate it....but I love it!

Small Time Hero was also heard on previous podcasts

 

[anadwin]

Thanks StevePharma!!!!

 

[Grisby]

I'm with you Jeff. Crackdown has the best traversal.

Just Cause 2 is great, but I just love jumping around the city acting out my superhero fantasies.

 

[Neuromancer]

I'm with you Jeff. Crackdown has the best traversal.

Just Cause 2 is great, but I just love jumping around the city acting out my superhero fantasies.

Yeah at the time there was nothing like being able to jump 40 feet straight up in the air and launching yourself over buildings.

Prototype is another good traversal game (even though the game itself wasn't that hot), running up the side of a sky scraper then gliding across half the island was a pretty amazing feeling.

 

[Curufinwe]

If JeffCannata had any taste, he would know that Just Cause 2 has the best traversal mechanic of any open world game. Parachute grappling across the world is so fun and quick, I rarely used any vehicles.

Preach it, brother. Sling-shotting yourself around Panau is easily one of the best game mechanics of this generation.

 

[Rlan]

"There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person," says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex.

http://au.pc.ign.com/articles/135/135304p1.html

The "name at the top" discussion reminded me of this.

 

[Neuromancer]

Garnett you should really get on Crysis 2 in this upcoming summer gaming drought, I think you'd really dig it.

 

[Sceptic]

Funny that they didn't mention Rockstar when discussing the marketing on creator instead of franchise. Rockstar has lent their name to LA Noire and (arguably) to Red Dead Redemption with great success.

Also there BF2 discussion was all over the place. I really think that Activision will not even compare it to BF3 in their marketing as sad as this is CoD:MW3 will sell a billion copies more than BF3 without even trying.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

The world is intentionally un-realisitc. It's a comic book world. Would any person ever live in Gotham City? No, of course not, it's where every super villain congregates. Normal people would move.

Rockstar gets a pass for it's poor storytelling, awful pacing and diametrically opposed game world v. story world (I'm so conflicted about murder despite murdering thousands in that past ten minutes!) or mechanics being inconsistent with the story so they are dropped sometimes (RDR's dead eye) because it makes an effort to be grandiose. Game writers eat that shit up generally speaking. If you make an effort to tell a "good" story (even if that story is just something you've seen a dozen times on Law and Order or other cop serials...Heavy Rain) game writers tend to reward you if you pulled it off or not.

I think inFamous is more fun most definitely but also a flat better game because it accomplishes everything it sets out to do. It makes you feel like a super hero and lets you play through a ludicrous comic book story in a ludicrous comic book world. At no time is the story world broken so that you can play with your mechanics. When I injure civilians, I go heal them. If I don't, they die. If I kill enough of em, they boo me. In GTA 4 I'll murder people by the thousands but then feel bad when a gang banger kills himself because he is lonely. Give me a break.

I don't have anything to add, but this is a great post

 

[markao]

Garnett you should really get on Crysis 2 in this upcoming summer gaming drought, I think you'd really dig it.

A Cevat Yerli game


entertaining show, interesting discussions, enjoyed this weeks episode!

 

[LiK]

Garnett you should really get on Crysis 2 in this upcoming summer gaming drought, I think you'd really dig it.

*coughYakuzacough*

 

[Goldmund]

This podcast is so much better with Spicer on it. He makes listening to it more than a guilty pleasure. Also, Golden Eye Wii is a great game, there's no need to defend one's enjoyment of it.