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We've got to talk - S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 downgrade

Kupfer

Kupfer

Member
Just to make clear, I'm a huge S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fan, I even write S.T.A.L.K.E.R. the right way everytime I mention it here.

Due to a lack of capable hardware, I haven't played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 myself yet, but I have been following the development process closely and have now watched quite a bit of material since the launch.
Honestly, I can't understand, even though I would like to claim the opposite, why the game is being received so positively.



How can something like this happen? Is this A-Life 2?




There no longer seems to be any A-Life at all.
A user on Reddit pointed out that the advertised A-Life 2 system doesn't actually exist, and that in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2, NPCs spawn around you based on a dice system, Wall of Text here:





Furthermore, I watched the DF video about the game and was shocked that in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 there are neither flashlight shadows nor muzzle flash shadows. See here at 7:33 minutes:



S.T.A.L.K.E.R. SoC in 2007 did a better job

But wait, I swear I have seen these features in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 footage ...
Click on 0:38 minutes and check out this 3-year-old official gameplay:



  • Muzzle flash reflections of the opponent on the ground, tires illuminated by the opponent's muzzle flash.
  • The barrel fire casts shelf shadows on the wall, and the same applies to the slightly ajar gate thing next to the door.
  • The entire door frame is illuminated by your own muzzle flash.


These are just some examples that I’ve observed as a "watcher" over the last 2 hours, and I really find it disappointing what S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 has turned into, or rather, in what state this game was released.
Everything seems like a much too premature launch, and I can't understand who the current satisfied target audience is.

I don't want to ruin the game for anyone, but as a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fan, I just wonder who is celebrating S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 right now and where the positive reviews are coming from. Is it the new generation of console shooter players, people who aren't familiar with the old games and are just getting a taste of the brilliance of the earlier titles and are now realizing what they've been missing, or is it the old S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fans?

I can't imagine it being the latter.
 
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Bry0

Bry0

Member
I’m also a stalker fan, people are hyper fixating on these things and ignoring the plethora of improvements. Even with these issues it’s the best fps I’ve played in a decade. Too many people repeating criticism from reddit instead of trying the game themself. Still I would like to see patches and GSC is communicating pretty openly about things they want to address.
 
Radical_3d

Radical_3d

Member
Can someone more tech savvy than me tell my why we did move from the deferred rendering of Killzone 2, with thousands of light sources, to whatever we are using nowadays? It seems like a downgrade although I remember that deferred was no good with some post processing or something like that.
 
The Cockatrice

The Cockatrice

I'm retarded?
winjer said:
It's very difficult to make a game, while being bombed by Putin.
Click to expand...

Dude, they did not develop the game in Ukraine lol. They were safe in Prague with Microsoft's backing. They had no issues making it nor any excuse outside of being forced to nuter a game to run on a weak console. The game was also delayed multiple times, so its not like they were forced to release it in this state either. Sounds to me like they were full of shit on promises.
 
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coffinbirth

coffinbirth

Member
If you're as big of a S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fan as you claim, then you should know full well that bugs, graphics issues and general weirdness at launch is nothing new. Can't speak on the A-Life 2 issue, but lest we forget...the devs are in the middle of an actual goddamned war, so perhaps holding back release for another 6-12 months+ to iron out the AI and graphical issues weren't exactly feasible.

By all accounts it's a great game, so maybe just try playing it.
 
Lorianus

Lorianus

Member
Missing shadow cast lights are performance tweaks i guess, is it cool ?, no, but the game runs like trash even now without multiplying shadow enabled light sources.
 
Pop

Pop

Member
winjer said:
It's very difficult to make a game, while being bombed by Putin.
Click to expand...
ya bro bombs were going off right above their building. Surprised the game came out at all

give em 2 more years for the actual release but the game is full price now
 
Luipadre

Luipadre

Member
Waiting for the PS5 port. Thats probably out in a year. Plenty of time to fix a lot of the glaring issues the game currently has and improve the game with missing features etc
 
Kupfer

Kupfer

Member
killatopak said:
I’m not surprised this happened. It’s quite frequent nowadays. I mean I expected more from Stalker definitely but I know they also had real life difficulties.

Understanding doesn’t stop me from being disappointed though.
Click to expand...
Indeed.
I can't even imagine what it means for the developers to release this game right now, while perhaps friends, acquaintances, family, and colleagues are fighting and dying at the real front. One definitely wouldn't want to trade places with them.
The game was so heavily marketed, with promises made that were not kept, and as a possible customer of a product, I am put off by the state of the game.


Bry0 said:
I’m also a stalker fan, people are hyper fixating on these things and ignoring the plethora of improvements. Even with these issues it’s the best fps I’ve played in a decade. Too many people repeating criticism from reddit instead of trying the game themself. Still I would like to see patches and GSC is communicating pretty openly about things they want to address.
Click to expand...
Which improvements exactly have a positive impact on the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. franchise?
I mean, walking around and shooting random NPCs/animals/mutants? Ok. You also see cutscenes and scripted events now, but those were never important or defining for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Lighting and shadows don't work, A-Life doesn't work, the voice acting doesn't work, controllersupport doesn't work properly and the AI in general is criticized.
Honestly, I can't really see much that the game does really well in terms of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series.

cormack12 said:
A-Life is currently bugged I think

www.pcgamer.com

Stalker 2 devs reassure players: Yes, A-Life 2.0 is in the game, no, it's not working right, and yes, fixes are on the way

Quite a few Stalker 2 players were concerned that the famed A-Life system had been cut from the new Stalker, but GSC says no, it's just really wonky right now.
www.pcgamer.com www.pcgamer.com
Click to expand...
I'm not a programmer, but the OP from the reddit post claims there is no such thing like A-Life in the game if I understand the text correctly.

Lorianus said:
Missing shadow cast lights are performance tweaks i guess, is it cool ?, no, but the game runs like trash even now without multiplying shadow enabled light sources.
Click to expand...
But that was absolutely clear when GSC decided to go with UE5, I just don't understand that.
 
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The Cockatrice

The Cockatrice

I'm retarded?
winjer said:
They had to move the studio out of Ukraine.
And a few devs joined the army.
This affected the game quite a bit.
Click to expand...
Gaiff said:
Didn’t their office get bombed and they had to move out?
Click to expand...

It delayed the development time due to relocation and thats about it. They were safe to continue after. Nothing changed. The game would've come out the same even if there was no war.
 
coffinbirth

coffinbirth

Member
The Cockatrice said:
Dude, they did not develop the game in Ukraine lol. They were safe in Prague with Microsoft's backing. They had no issues making it nor any excuse outside of being forced to nuter a game to run on a weak console.
Click to expand...
This is only partially true.

The bulk of the team went to Prague, but some stayed working remotely, and some stayed to fucking fight.
Not to mention 7/8 of the development of this game was entirely in the Ukraine, so technically very untrue.

Let's see how good at your job you are when your friends and family are being murdered.

Fucking jackass.
 
winjer

winjer

Gold Member
The Cockatrice said:
It delayed the development time due to relocation and thats about it. They were safe to continue after. Nothing changed. The game would've come out the same even if there was no war.
Click to expand...

A game can't be in development limbo forever.
The reality is that the war affected the game's development, in a negative way.
Having to move out of their own country. Having colleagues leave to fight a war. Having a colleague die. And seeing your own country and people getting destroyed for 3 years.
All this takes a toll. Yes, the game has issues, but of all the game's that have been released with bugs, this one has a proper reason for it.
 
The Cockatrice

The Cockatrice

I'm retarded?
winjer said:
The reality is that the war affected the game's development, in a negative way.
Click to expand...

It didnt. It only affected its release dates. The game's code or lack of didnt suffer due to war lmao. Don't be ridiculous. Morals are down, but they received a ton of support, money, and time to finish the game.
coffinbirth said:
and some stayed to fucking fight.
Click to expand...

That has nothing to do with the games development.
coffinbirth said:
Let's see how good at your job you are when your friends and family are being murdered.
Click to expand...

Don't be ridiculous. None of the devs claimed were emotionally impacted outside of one of their coworker dying in the war. If that were true, they'd stop developing the game completely if they were depressed or impacted by what was going on in the war.
 
Bry0

Bry0

Member
Kupfer said:
Indeed.
I can't even imagine what it means for the developers to release this game right now, while perhaps friends, acquaintances, family, and colleagues are fighting and dying at the real front. One definitely wouldn't want to trade places with them.
The game was so heavily marketed, with promises made that were not kept, and as a customer of a product, one has to be able to offer criticism.


Which improvements exactly have a positive impact on the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. franchise?
I mean, walking around and shooting random NPCs/animals/mutants? Ok. You also see cutscenes and scripted events now, but those were never important or defining for S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
Lighting and shadows don't work, A-Life doesn't work, the voice acting doesn't work, controllersupport doesn't work properly and the AI in general is criticized.
Honestly, I can't really see much that the game does really well in terms of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. series.
Click to expand...
I have 15 hours in the game man. The item use animations add nice depth to tactical choices in combat, quests are significantly better presented and story is delivered better. The map design is top notch and makes the game loop feel a bit more like playing anomaly mods. Gunplay and animation work is vastly improved over the originals. Weather is vastly improved and can be actually dangerous. Emission cover has been improved to make more logical sense, like at the depot in the garbage. The new anomalies can throw even a seasoned stalker off and they are very creative. All the new map marked anomalies are very interesting and more varied both in terms of how you navigate them and how they look visually. Camp areas are more dense and interesting, and handing around smaller campfires actually has an option to sit with other stalkers which is cool. Underground sections and stashes have more interesting design and mini puzzles in terms of figuring out how to get to them, the world is larger and seeing old zones form the originals that are expanded and more realistic in size is very cool. The atmosphere and tone is bang on and imo even better than the originals in some places, and even features like the arena made it back in. Weapon attachments are great and adds a nice additional layer to customizing a weapon you like. The encounter design with how they place certain mutants is great, and like many other things in the game, feels a bit more carefully designed in a thoughtful way.

Yeah the npc spawn system needs fixes, and they are actively working on it. Yeah I wish the muzzle flashes looked better, but you are seriously missing out if that’s enough to stop you.
 
bender

bender

What time is it?
The Cockatrice said:
It didnt. It only affected its release dates. The game's code or lack of didnt suffer due to war lmao. Don't be ridiculous. Morals are down, but they received a ton of support, money, and time to finish the game.


That has nothing to do with the games development.


Don't be ridiculous. None of the devs claimed were emotionally impacted outside of one of their coworker dying in the war. If that were true, they'd stop developing the game completely if they were depressed or impacted by what was going on in the war.
Click to expand...
14.jpg
 
coffinbirth

coffinbirth

Member
The Cockatrice said:
It didnt. It only affected its release dates. The game's code or lack of didnt suffer due to war lmao. Don't be ridiculous. Morals are down, but they received a ton of support, money, and time to finish the game.


That has nothing to do with the games development.


Don't be ridiculous. None of the devs claimed were emotionally impacted outside of one of their coworker dying in the war. If that were true, they'd stop developing the game completely if they were depressed or impacted by what was going on in the war.
Click to expand...
6hgdu.gif
 
winjer

winjer

Gold Member
The Cockatrice said:
It didnt. It only affected its release dates. The game's code or lack of didnt suffer due to war lmao. Don't be ridiculous. Morals are down, but they received a ton of support, money, and time to finish the game.


That has nothing to do with the games development.


Don't be ridiculous. None of the devs claimed were emotionally impacted outside of one of their coworker dying in the war. If that were true, they'd stop developing the game completely if they were depressed or impacted by what was going on in the war.
Click to expand...

Come on man. It's the biggest war since WW2, with thousands of Ukrainians dying because of the Russian invasion.
Of course this is going to affect the people making the game.
 
adamsapple

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
The Cockatrice said:
It didnt. It only affected its release dates. The game's code or lack of didnt suffer due to war lmao. Don't be ridiculous. Morals are down, but they received a ton of support, money, and time to finish the game.


That has nothing to do with the games development.


Don't be ridiculous. None of the devs claimed were emotionally impacted outside of one of their coworker dying in the war. If that were true, they'd stop developing the game completely if they were depressed or impacted by what was going on in the war.
Click to expand...


Jesus Christ, stop posting, watch the development doc.

Clearly you're completely clueless.
 
BigLee74

BigLee74

Member
The Cockatrice said:
Dude, they did not develop the game in Ukraine lol. They were safe in Prague with Microsoft's backing. They had no issues making it nor any excuse outside of being forced to nuter a game to run on a weak console. The game was also delayed multiple times, so it’s not like they were forced to release it in this state either. Sounds to me like they were full of shit on promises.
Click to expand...
Ah, nothing like a few bugs and issues getting in the way of compassion, huh?
 
Kupfer

Kupfer

Member
winjer said:
A game can't be in development limbo forever.
The reality is that the war affected the game's development, in a negative way.
Having to move out of their own country. Having colleagues leave to fight a war. Having a colleague die. And seeing your own country and people getting destroyed for 3 years.
All this takes a toll. Yes, the game has issues, but of all the game's that have been released with bugs, this one has a proper reason for it.
Click to expand...

I know you're right.
But I'm not just talking about the bugs; there are features missing that make S.T.A.L.K.E.R. what it is.

When watching, I get the feeling that while S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 is by no means polished, this roughness and grittiness from the old S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games just aren't coming through for me so far, and please don't confuse that with bugs. Somehow, UE5 manages to make a game with its own identity feel "shallow."
It feels like a fan project - and that does a disservice to some S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fan projects (GAMMA, Anomaly), as those are fucking phenomenal and -I'm going out on a limb here- better than part S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2.
 
The Cockatrice

The Cockatrice

I'm retarded?
winjer said:
Of course this is going to affect the people making the game.
Click to expand...

I've said my piece and I'll leave it at that. I have nothing agaisnt the team, nor am I downplaying the war itself, I just dont think the war has impacted the actual development of the game, its features, its lack of features outside of just increasing the time to finish the game, which btw, still hasnt been finished properly by the looks of it. There are no excuses and this could've been delayed another 6 months if they were so badly affected by the war and couldnt not do their jobs properly. Anyway, im out.
 
winjer

winjer

Gold Member
Kupfer said:
I know you're right.
But I'm not just talking about the bugs; there are features missing that make S.T.A.L.K.E.R. what it is.

When watching, I get the feeling that while S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2 is by no means polished, this roughness and grittiness from the old S.T.A.L.K.E.R. games just aren't coming through for me so far, and please don't confuse that with bugs. Somehow, UE5 manages to make a game with its own identity feel "shallow."
It feels like a fan project - and that does a disservice to some S.T.A.L.K.E.R. fan projects (GAMMA, Anomaly), as those are fucking phenomenal and -I'm going out on a limb here- better than part S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you touched the issue with UE5, because this is a very poor game engine, with a ton of performance issues.
It's only recently, that we had fixes for the terrible thread optimization with Unreal Engine. An issue that plagues both PC and consoles.

There are studios that can write a lot of extra code to fix this mess of a game engine, such as what the Coalition did with Gears 5 and UE4.
But most studios can't afford to fix Epics incompetence. And that is why we have seen so many games using Unreal Engine with performance problems.
 
Kupfer

Kupfer

Member
Bry0 said:
I have 15 hours in the game man. The item use animations add nice depth to tactical choices in combat, quests are significantly better presented and story is delivered better. The map design is top notch and makes the game loop feel a bit more like playing anomaly mods. Gunplay and animation work is vastly improved over the originals. Weather is vastly improved and can be actually dangerous. Emission cover has been improved to make more logical sense, like at the depot in the garbage. The new anomalies can throw even a seasoned stalker off and they are very creative. All the new map marked anomalies are very interesting and more varied both in terms of how you navigate them and how they look visually. Camp areas are more dense and interesting, and handing around smaller campfires actually has an option to sit with other stalkers which is cool. Underground sections and stashes have more interesting design and mini puzzles in terms of figuring out how to get to them, the world is larger and seeing old zones form the originals that are expanded and more realistic in size is very cool. The atmosphere and tone is bang on and imo even better than the originals in some places, and even features like the arena made it back in. Weapon attachments are great and adds a nice additional layer to customizing a weapon you like. The encounter design with how they place certain mutants is great, and like many other things in the game, feels a bit more carefully designed in a thoughtful way.

Yeah the npc spawn system needs fixes, and they are actively working on it. Yeah I wish the muzzle flashes looked better, but you are seriously missing out if that’s enough to stop you.
Click to expand...
Honestly, that gives me some hope that beneath the current state, there could be a decent game. I just hope the developer manages to pull off a real update masterpiece in the next few months, because right now, despite all the improvements you mentioned, it looks like a full-price early access game.
 
Bry0

Bry0

Member
Kupfer said:
Honestly, that gives me some hope that beneath the current state, there could be a decent game. I just hope the developer manages to pull off a real update masterpiece in the next few months, because right now, despite all the improvements you mentioned, it looks like a full-price early access game.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m definitely hoping for patches, because there is definitely a real stalker game under there, and it’s a really really good one too! I’m not saying it’s perfect but it’s dang good and they absolutely understood the assignment. I say that as someone worried they would dumb the game down.

I agree with you that, with some real updates, this thing could be a masterpiece I’ll be playing over and over.
 
Radical_3d

Radical_3d

Member
The Cockatrice said:
It didnt. It only affected its release dates. The game's code or lack of didnt suffer due to war lmao. Don't be ridiculous. Morals are down, but they received a ton of support, money, and time to finish the game.


That has nothing to do with the games development.


Don't be ridiculous. None of the devs claimed were emotionally impacted outside of one of their coworker dying in the war. If that were true, they'd stop developing the game completely if they were depressed or impacted by what was going on in the war.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Shadowstar39

Shadowstar39

Member
Bry0 said:
I’m also a stalker fan, people are hyper fixating on these things and ignoring the plethora of improvements. Even with these issues it’s the best fps I’ve played in a decade. Too many people repeating criticism from reddit instead of trying the game themself. Still I would like to see patches and GSC is communicating pretty openly about things they want to address.
Click to expand...
This. Game is awesome in so many other ways that it's easy to ignore graphic stuff that is minor.

We haven't had a good single player gritty military style fps in over a decade (well maybe farcy if you count that), it's all been neon, or fortnite esque style appealing to the "modern audience" or children. Stalker is not like that.

Are their issues yeah, but it plays great and the missions are fun. I have had different crazy scenarios play out just getting to places. I killed quest givers and can still push forward, take their loot and move on. The world is fun. You hear that... Fun. They sold enough the issues op has will be fixed I'm sure.

I bought original stalker multiple times (physical disc, steam/gog, Xbox, and switch) why because I love playing the zone trilogy. It's fun it has the perfect mix of horror and loot based shooting. Mixed with incredible atmosphere. The sequel has it too and will only get better.
 
bender

bender

What time is it?
Considering the shape the originals launched in, this isn't the most surprising thing. Maybe S2 is in worse shape at launch than the previous efforts, but as much as I hate excuses, if anyone is worthy of some grace, I'd say it is this team.
 
Last edited:
semiconscious

semiconscious

Member
winjer said:
Come on man. It's the biggest war since WW2, with thousands of Ukrainians dying because of the Russian invasion.
Of course this is going to affect the people making the game.
Click to expand...
  • Korean War
    The Korean War (1950–1953) had an estimated 2.5–3.5 million deaths. The civilian-combatant death ratio was approximately 3:1.


  • Vietnam War
    The Vietnam War (1955–1975) had an estimated 1.1–3.4 million deaths.


  • Second Congo War
    The Second Congo War and its aftermath caused an estimated 5.4 million deaths, primarily due to disease and malnutrition.


  • Post-9/11 Wars
    The estimated total of direct and indirect deaths in the post-9/11 war zones is 4.5-4.7 million.


  • Russian invasion of Ukraine
    The Russian invasion of Ukraine has caused the deaths of at least 40,000 Ukrainian civilians and 200,000 Ukrainian troops.
Click to expand...
 
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