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[Knitted Knight]

With 5 weeks to go till launch we've yet to understand a lot about the new generation machines and how they'll differ in real-time performance as opposed to stat-sheet analysis. Each platform holder has been open about certain aspects of their consoles while shy about others - going both ways. With that said one of the main draws of the new generation, and one the main qualitative improvements over the previous generation will be a massive reduction in load times across the board. This will come thanks to the SSD's and I/O solutions found in the new consoles. Long load times is something that for a long time has detracted from the overall game experience and a burden on developers themselves when designing games. As we've come to know, thanks to heavy marketing by both companies, is that the SSD/I'O solutions of the Series S/X and PS5 are not the same, nor equal. A quick glance at raw spec sheet:

PS5:

Internal Storage	Custom 825GB SSD
IO Throughput	5.5GB/s (Raw), Typical 8-9GB/s (Compressed)

Xbox Series X:

Internal Storage​	1TB Custom NVMe SSD
IO Throughput​	2.4GB/s (Raw), 4.8GB/s (Compressed)

Microsoft has recently sent out the Xbox Series S/X to the media and influencers to showcase its new Backward Comparability features and improved load times. With this real-time public showing MS has proven that the improvements are not theoretical, and that it's not marketing fluff as far as their claims are concerned. Here are some of those results:

Verge:

Gamespot:

Red Dead Redemption 2	38 seconds	2 minutes, 8 seconds
Control	10 seconds	58 seconds
Final Fantasy XV	13 seconds	1 minute, 11 seconds
The Outer Worlds	11 seconds	43 seconds

The proof is in the pudding. For Sony's machine however, we've yet to see in the wild, verifiable load-times. So you could make the case in the absence of such that their marketing and claims may be fluff or whatever your imagination may come up with.
============================================
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With that introduction, we've come to the crux of the thread.

What difference do you predict and expect in load times between these 2 (technically 3) machines (considering the differences in spec-sheet "performance")?
Do you think the differences will be significant, minor, none at all?
Do you care now? Do you see yourself caring if the differences are significant in improving immediacy and overall user experience?

We obviously have to thank both Microsoft for providing baselines, and Sony for withholding showcasing theirs to make this thread work. There are no right or wrong answers so participate freely, and discuss. Obviously there is more to the new SSD's/I'O improvements than just load-time improvements but for the time being this is what we got to work with and the most immediate and visible benefit.

 

[Trogdor1123]

I said no difference at all as I expect it to be pretty small regardless of which wins.

 

[geordiemp]

All announced loading times so far for ps5 have been < 2 seconds.

 

[Mr. PlayStation]

Someone who’s been playing warzone as the only multiplayer on the pro since it’s launch. I can’t wait to see the quality of life improvements on the ps5 playing warzone. That instantaneous lobby/loading into the game round after round is something I can’t wait to experience

 

[MasterCornholio]

I definitely believe the PS5 will have an advantage with it's I/O out of the two. However I do believe it's just going to be around a 50% advantage on average. So if a game loads 8 seconds in the XSX it will load in 4 seconds in the PS5. However I have seen 2 second load times with Sonys system.

 

[carloseduardocd]

Raw speed is very important in Backward games.

So, certanly PS5 will have advantage Backward games.

But both consoles will have "virtually instant loading" only in next-gen games.

 

[GymWolf]

Very little for third party games, maybe more noticeable for ps5 exclusives.

 

[TeKtheSanE]

There are varying reports on load speed, it looks like you just used to the one from the Verge.

Red Dead Redemption 2	38 seconds	2 minutes, 8 seconds
Control	10 seconds	58 seconds
Final Fantasy XV	13 seconds	1 minute, 11 seconds
The Outer Worlds	11 seconds	43 seconds

Those are from gamespot. There are also youtube videos that have different tests that are around these same times.
So it seems like it varies, I would love to see someone do an average.

But based on the varying results, I expect 25-40% faster load speeds on PS5 for 3rd party, probably 75% increase for first party for both consoles.

The only outlier I am concerned with is the Series S, did they test this device yet?

 

[Knitted Knight]

All announced loading times so far for ps5 have been < 2 seconds.

In other words you expect a greater than 100% improvement in load times. Matter of fact, > 200% even...

There are varying reports on load speed, it looks like you just used to the one from the Verge.

Those are from gamespot. There are also youtube videos that have different tests that are around these same times.
So it seems like it varies, I would love to see someone do an average.

But based on the varying results, I expect 25-40% faster load speeds on PS5 for 3rd party, probably 75% increase for first party for both consoles.

The only outlier I am concerned with is the Series S, did they test this device yet?

Fixed.

 

[TeKtheSanE]

All announced loading times so far for ps5 have been < 2 seconds.

Where are the announcements? Did someone get full hands on similar to the Series X hands on already?

 

[lastmessiah]

I suspect there won't be much difference. Anyone who has been using SSDs for years knows the deal. Just because one is "twice as fast" doesn't mean that you will see twice the performance. It just doesn't work that way.

And if Sony really did have a massive advantage here, they would be screaming it from the hilltops.

 

[geordiemp]

Where are the announcements? Did someone get full hands on similar to the Series X hands on already?

In some news articles, and dev interviews said load in < 2 seconds, Kena was one and a couple of others I recall,

Google works cant be bothered to look them up, someone will do a table at some point lol. I cant be arsed.

 

[ecentre]

I suspect greater than 100% improvement in load times

 

[Codswallop_]

Over 9000

 

[pawel86ck]

Assuming MS didnt lied about SFS savings (2.5x) load times should be the same (also around 1 second), because when PS5 will have to load entire 13.5GB, XSX will need to load only 5.4GB. Developers may want however to load more textures on XSX because why waste 8GB RAM left? Such game would fill entire 13.5GB at 3 seconds assuming 4.8-6GB transfer speed.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Where are the announcements? Did someone get full hands on similar to the Series X hands on already?

Not really but we have seen some games doing loading really quickly. Like Ratchet and Clank and Demon Souls.

From what I've seen from the PS5 I believe the I/O will be very fast. But will it be as fast as advertised? That's something we will have to see.

Such game would fill entire 13.5GB at 3 seconds assuming 4.8-6GB transfer speed.

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt but they haven't proven that yet. If anything takes more than 3 seconds to load (optimized next gen games of course) then that would be wrong.

 

[Pegasus Actual]

Maybe as the generation goes on PS5 devs will find interesting ways to leverage that extra theoretical throughput but I expect the basic experience at launch between the two will be very similar. I don't think there's a definitive answer on day one with launch games and BC as to whether PS5 I/O is overengineered, Xbox is underengineered, or something in between.

 

[jaysius]

What an amazing thread, now trying to crystal ball fucking load times?

Man these slow news day Sony fanposts are getting pretty crazy.

I guess we'll know more Sunday, thats when actual humans are going to get to play right?

 

[TeKtheSanE]

Not really but we have seen some games doing loading really quickly. Like Ratchet and Clank and Demon Souls.

From what I've seen from the PS5 I believe the I/O will he very fast. But will it be as fast as advertised? That's something we will have to see.

Yeah I'm pretty much expecting the loading from anything that is 1st party on both systems to be basically instant. I want to see some 3rd party comparisons and backwards compatibility tests.

 

[Night.Ninja]

Well according to some people everything will load in a second even BC games

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yeah I'm pretty much expecting the loading from anything that is 1st party on both systems to be basically instant. I want to see some 3rd party comparisons and backwards compatibility tests.

BC will probably be slower but the raw speed should make it faster than Microsoft's. As for 3rd parties I read that the PS5s I/O has alot of hardware that will do the developers work. So they will probably be able to take advantage of Sonys I/O pretty easily.

I don't believe they will design their games around it but the extra speed should show up in their games. Whether or not it's something that people will care about is a different story.

 

[Allandor]

Can't answer the poll because of missing options.

unpatched BC Games -> faster loading on Xbox Series S/X because of the faster CPU (the SSD is not limiting here at all). But we talk about 0.x seconds here, so not much.
New games and patched BC Games -> faster loading times on PS5 because of the faster SSD. We are talking about 1-2s here depending on the game.

I really don't think that many games will use the full speed of the SSDs at any time other than "loading screens" (whatever they will look like ... e.g. some unskipable animations). There is just a point when IO is just no longer the limiting factor, and even slower SSDs than in the next gen consoles don't reach that point (only in edge cases).

The real problem I see with next gen is, that the bandwidth per gigabyte did not increase as much as the compute power of the CPU & GPU. So if you stream content in and out, this costs memory bandwidth. So at the end the new consoles might still be bandwidth limited.

 

[geordiemp]

Kena: Bridge of Spirits Takes About Two Seconds to Load From the PlayStation 5's Menu - PlayStation LifeStyle

Ember Lab has revealed that Kena Bridge of Spirits PS5 version takes about two seconds to load from the console's menu.

www.playstationlifestyle.net

Less than 2 seconds in dev interview, I read a few others similar

 

[Ozrimandias]

No difference at all or worse for Playstation.

You know why?


Because otherwise, Sony would have communicated it at this point.

That was supposed to be its killer feature over Series X (because it's less power).

But no info about this and we're in a month and a half till launch.

 

[Insane Metal]

In BC games I expect PS5 to suck since Sony seems to not be giving two fucks about it.

In next gen games I expect the load times to be 50 to 70% faster.

 

[pawel86ck]

Not really but we have seen some games doing loading really quickly. Like Ratchet and Clank and Demon Souls.

From what I've seen from the PS5 I believe the I/O will be very fast. But will it be as fast as advertised? That's something we will have to see.




I'll give them the benefit of the doubt but they haven't proven that yet. If anything takes more than 3 seconds to load (optimized next gen games of course) then that would be wrong.

Agree, unlike MS Sony has indeed proven their I/O can load entire level/game in just under 1 second. Now it's MS turn to show what XSX I/O can do.

 

[prinz_valium]

25% in favor of PS5
So instead of 8 seconds you only have to wait 6 seconds.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Agree, unlike MS Sony has indeed proven their I/O can load entire level/game in just under 1 second. Now it's MS turn to show what XSX I/O can do.

Correct. Microsoft needs to cut the BS and just show us what the VA is capable of. And I mean with actual next gen games instead of BC titles. They need to prove that it's on par with the PS5s if they are making those claims with SFS.

No difference at all or worse for Playstation.

You know why?


Because otherwise, Sony would have communicated it at this point.

That was supposed to be its killer feature over Series X (because it's less power).

But no info about this and we're in a month and a half till launch.

I think Sony was pretty open about the PS5s I/O starting from Mark Cerneys Road to PS5 talk. Then there's the comments from developers, Sonys 1st party game demos and the Unreal Engine 5 demo.

I'm not sure what information is missing about the PS5s I/O.

it was a huge part of Cernys deep dive in March

I think it was around half the presentation was dedicated to the I/O. It was definitely something that they wanted to talk about.

 

[FrankWza]

No difference at all or worse for Playstation.

You know why?


Because otherwise, Sony would have communicated it at this point.

That was supposed to be its killer feature over Series X (because it's less power).

But no info about this and we're in a month and a half till launch.

it was a huge part of Cernys deep dive in March

 

[RaySoft]

In BC games I expect PS5 to suck since Sony seems to not be giving two fucks about it.

In next gen games I expect the load times to be 50 to 70% faster.

i/o speed can actually have a negative effect on some games and break them. So my guess is that only Boost mode will unlock full i/o speeds, with regular BC holding back i/o for compat. reasons.

 

[Black_Stride]

An imperceptible difference that people will stop talking about in a few months.

After saying the PS5 loads 3 seconds faster in 10 games, the Series X matches it in 8 games and the Series X loads quicker in 3, reviewers, gamers and pretty much everyone will just stop talking about it because people wont find it worth pointing out.

In games where the difference is 1 minute vs 1 second....sure.
Everywhere else where we can expect very very close loading times.......loading times you would need to side by side to really point out.....we will stop giving a damn.

The PS5s might will only really be shown off in first party titles but we wont be able to compare it to anything as Sony likely wont be releasing any PS5 exclusives on PC or Xbox any time soon.

 

[FrankWza]

this issue, again, is that the focus is on load times. The PS5, according to Cernys deep dive chose this drive to, among other things, help offset ram needed and utilize the SSD to do that. It’s an approach that is unprecedented. These are the first consoles that are coming with SSD preinstalled. Anyone who has upgraded their ps3(worked wonders from gran tourismo 5 load times thank god) or ps4 to SSD already knows the benefits of SSD for load times and draw distance.

They took it a step further and engineered the ps5 to utilize the SSD in other in-game applications. That’s where the extra gbps come in. Otherwise it would be overkill. The difference is there because the plan is to have the Custom SSD be just as important to a game’s performance as ram. Again, this was all covered in the March deep dive. That was over 6 months ago.

 

[Concern]

No difference at all or worse for Playstation.

You know why?


Because otherwise, Sony would have communicated it at this point.

That was supposed to be its killer feature over Series X (because it's less power).

But no info about this and we're in a month and a half till launch.

Only thing they've beaten their chest about, has been load times. Which was first "no more loading" then "fast loading".

If they had anything else over the competition, they'd of made sure to scream it off the top of the highest rooftop. Instead we're still waiting on seeing the console previewed by some handpicked "non-biased" Japanese youtubers.

OT: the tradeoff will be faster loading vs better res or performance imo.

 

[FrankWza]

this issue, again, is that the focus is on load times. The PS5, according to Cernys deep dive chose this drive to, among other things, help offset ram needed and utilize the SSD to do that. It’s an approach that is unprecedented. These are the first consoles that are coming with SSD preinstalled. Anyone who has upgraded their ps3(worked wonders from gran tourismo 5 load times thank god) or ps4 to SSD already knows the benefits of SSD for load times and draw distance.

They took it a step further and engineered the ps5 to utilize the SSD in other in-game applications. That’s where the extra gbps come in. Otherwise it would be overkill. The difference is there because the plan is to have the Custom SSD be just as important to a game’s performance as ram. Again, this was all covered in the March deep dive. That was over 6 months ago.

I’m quoting myself and adding this from the match deep dive. Bolded the part I’m referring to

The proprietary SSD - how it works and what it delivers
From the very first PlayStation 5 reveal in Wired, Sony has spent a lot of time evangelising its SSD - the solid-state storage solution that will be transformative not just in terms of loading times, but in how games will be able to deliver bigger, more detailed worlds and much more dynamic use of memory. With an impressive 5.5GB/s of raw bandwidth alongside hardware accelerated decoding (boosting effective bandwidth to around 8-9GB/s), PlayStation 5's SSD is clearly a point of pride for Mark Cerny and his team.

 

[Jadsey]

Who knows.

What we do know is that DigiShill Foundry will say that the Xbox is 5000% faster.

 

[Neo_game]

PS5 compressed BW has improved considerably with Oodle texture compression:




https://wccftech.com/ps5-io-system-...oodle-texture-bandwidth-goes-up-to-17-38gb-s/

 

[IntentionalPun]

Gonna depend on the game.

- How it loads assets, and whether they change that for PS5 or just let the assets load at a higher speed (since it's faster, you can also double down and load LESS assets ahead of time)
- How much texture compression they use
- How much of a games assets are textures vs. objects (that aren't compressed)
- And despite what the average person thinks, asset loading is only part of any given game's load times, and the non-asset aspects vary greatly.. some games do a lot of calculations and those times aren't going to differ

 

[Batiman]

I would vote 5% difference if there was an option so I just went with no difference

 

[LordOfChaos]

A number of first party Sony games will probably be architected not to have any load times after the initial launch, seamless continuous world from there. Third party games, I dunno, by the numbers and alleged lack of bottleneck it would read to be nearly twice as fast or 100%, but it depends on effort and if they don't just share common loading masking things across cross platform games.

 

[truth411]

I suspect there won't be much difference. Anyone who has been using SSDs for years knows the deal. Just because one is "twice as fast" doesn't mean that you will see twice the performance. It just doesn't work that way.

And if Sony really did have a massive advantage here, they would be screaming it from the hilltops.

But thats just it, Sony claimed months ago at the "Road to PS5" Mark Cerny presentation that they managed to address every bottleneck that drags the performance down.
With Oodle kraken boosting the throughput further than whats in the OP. The PS5 will be:

10GB-11GB general data
17GB-22GB Textures.

But you wont see it for launch titles, probably for games sometime next year. Also I think only Sony Exclusives can really take advantage of it not Multiplats per se.

 

[Codes 208]

I do believe Sony has the advantage with their faster SSD but written on paper and actual performance often don’t equal each other so I’m in the wait and see camp.

 

[RoadHazard]

Big difference in favor of the PS5 (larger than the raw specs indicate). But thinking this is only about load times is very unimaginative. That's the least interesting benefit.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I suspect there won't be much difference. Anyone who has been using SSDs for years knows the deal. Just because one is "twice as fast" doesn't mean that you will see twice the performance. It just doesn't work that way.

And if Sony really did have a massive advantage here, they would be screaming it from the hilltops.

This is where Sony has to prove their claims for sure, but your first point was explicitly addressed in the first PS5 reveal. An SSD can be 10x faster than a HDD, but you'll only see 2x loading time improvement, and the reason for that was it shifts the bottleneck to the CPU with decompression, check-in, DMA. What they invested heavily in the IO complex for was the ability to actually see the full benefit of SSDs by offloading all these jobs to dedicated silicon, so the CPU doesn't have to unpack anything, the SSD can, say, just poop textures directly into GPU memory or game code etc.

DirectStorage does one part of this by lowering storage call CPU overhead, but it's still a CPU side feature. So we'll see, but the difference could even be greater than the numbers, unlike a PC SSD where 2x as fast barely gains you anything, but again, I'll always say here that it's Sony's to prove.

 

[Riky]

Since people have been waiting minutes for loading last Gen I see stuff loading in 5 seconds on one and ten on the other the least important difference between the new consoles.

 

[Ar¢tos]

I guess we'll find out the impact on BC games this Sunday, when ps5 hands on Videos start being uploaded.

 

[Great Hair]

The XSX will grant developers access to 100GB of data via Velocity Architecture, essentially shorting the gap among both platforms. It will be more v-ram efficient thanks VA, up to 3x if not mistaken.

 

[too much eslim]

If it's not a world a difference the way Sony, fans, and developers making exclusive games make it out to be it will be an epic fail in my eyes. It better beat XSX every time even if it's 1 second.

 

[Nerd Strangler]

Currently not expecting any difference.

Jeff Grubb tested load times between series x internal SSD and a 540MB/s USB SDD on assassins creed origins, and a 450% increase in raw throughput resulted in a whopping 6% reduction in load times.... which could simply be down to USB penalty.

Currently not seeing any reason to think higher throughput will translate into meaningfully better load times. Maybe Sony's secret sauce will change that, but until there are benchmarks showing as much, I have low expectations. As to my knowledge, secret sauces almost always wind up being worthless.

 

[truth411]

If it's not a world a difference the way Sony, fans, and developers making exclusive games make it out to be it will be an epic fail in my eyes. It better beat XSX every time even if it's 1 second.

It should be faster, but load times are not the primary reason sony invested so much in the I/O throughput. Its Game Level Designs, but its going to be awhile before we see the fruition of that. RatchetnClank will probably be the first.

 

[TigerKnee]

I can see it now. Sony shows off PS5 games built from the ground-up with lightning fast load times and people start saying how it spanks the living hell out of how XSX handles backward compatible games...