What do you think of the latest WoW Nerfs?

as a hunter i care not.

im waiting on blizzard to do something about our lack of pvp skills though. and the honor system as well.
 
Anyone other than warriors complaining about PvP needs to die. Seriously, there isnt a single class that is afraid of a warrior in pvp -- there's no reason to be. We are completely gimped. And I hate Blizzard for treating the warrior class in general like shit.

Plus fuck them for making Cenarius unplayable basically for the last few days.
 
Mind Soothe isn't a big deal. Most of the people complaining are complaining because Blizzard has shown that immediacy trumps elegance when it comes to correcting even questionably exploitative behavior-this isn't new to fans of D2 or WoW Beta, but it is to the release folk.

Right now I'm more miffed about their server stability after their changes. It's absolutley terrible.
 
There's the argument that blizzard should have corrected the instances being abused by mind soothe instead of making the priest less solo-able.

Oh, and Gilneas = best server.
 
Warriors need serious PvP help. I ran into some poor sap defensive-spec warrior on my frost mage and it was some sad, sad stuff. I would have left him alone but his druid friend was getting some Khadgar's Whisker I wanted.
 
I'm more pissed about the inability to cast shield on people outside my group.

Shielding NPCs was a major help in quests where folks "join your party" for a bit ... now I just have to sit back and watch them die. F U Blizzard!!

GIVE PRIESTS A FREE MOUNT
 
If I had to guess, the Mind Soothe change happened mainly due to Maraudon. You could do a run at the Princess in like 15 minutes by using the staff then soothing past almost all the mobs. It's still super easy to get to her with the staff but at least takes some time.. the change sucks though for all classes, not just priests.

Also, disallowing priests to shield outside groups sucks for raids.. if anything, if you're in the same raid group it should be allowed on everyone as if they were in your "group."
 
Yeah, but even if they changed the instances, the players will get around it. They'll ALWAYS find ways to do way more with the tools given than you'd ever imagine, and you can't patch your playerbase to make them think the same way you do.

The superior solution would be to make it not work on elite mobs, period. There is very little *valid* reason why you'd use it on elites except to skip past content.
 
not a big deal really. They need to do some changes to warlocks (who are ok in pve but have a totally worthless talent tree and their endgame pets suck) and massively buff warriors, and need to nerf divine shield for paladins (or at least give it some kind of a drawback other than a 5 minute cooldown). I exploited the fuck out of mind soothe in the beta by running right through enemy towns mind soothing all the guards/NPCs and getting no aggro, so I can see why they'd do this to the spell now since it could be used for the same purpose in instances.

Though they also need to buff the stealth detection of some instance mobs so rogues/druids can't just go farm a boss like doan in the Scarlet Monastery.
 
Warriors need more unique advantages. I picked a warrior so I could hack shit up like a motherfucker, yet Paladins are just as strong and can heal/res/etc and have awesome buffs. WTF good is a warrior?
 
Andy787 said:
Warriors need more unique advantages. I picked a warrior so I could hack shit up like a motherfucker, yet Paladins are just as strong and can heal/res/etc and have awesome buffs. WTF good is a warrior?
yeah, I personally feel that berserker stance for warriors should give them a ton of melee damage and some defensive penalties. what it has right now is just crap - 3% more crits, 10% more damage taken. This is retarded when a paladin doesn't give up any armor except that of a shield (which warriors do as well!) to do more damage. Warriors have some marginal benefits at tanking multiple mobs, but considering you can stack a group with CC classes that also do good DPS (like mages and warlocks), you can just let a paladin tank a single mob (which they do fine with seal of fury) and kill fast anyway. or you can have a group of pure DPS badasses like rogues and hunters and the paladin can tank multiples using consecration and their self heals + priest/druid heals will keep them alive.

meanwhile the horde only has a warrior for a viable tank class in the endgame.
 
Claus said:
So the 50% slower attack speed isn't a drawback?
hardly a drawback when they're immune for 12 seconds, can easily heal to full, and also cleanse every possible debuff on them (even debuffs that no other spell can remove).
 
Not to mention the Paladin (if he is specced that way, which many are) can just spam Consecration for an AE taunt... Warriors' AE ability is very underpowered and not to mention our max DoT does 7 DPS.. on par with like a warlock who's about level 4 or so.
 
firex said:
hardly a drawback when they're immune for 12 seconds, can easily heal to full, and also cleanse every possible debuff on them (even debuffs that no other spell can remove).

To fully heal that takes at least two casts, which is 5 seconds and quite a bit of their mana. That leaves us with 7 seconds to attack at 50% slower speed, so 1h would be lucky to get 2 hits in and 2h would be lucky to even get 1 hit in. That is unless they combine it with Crusader. Besides, you've got time to get the hell out of there when we start casting to heal. Not like a Paladin has a move to catch up to a Mages blink or a Rogues sprint.
 
Claus said:
To fully heal that takes at least two casts, which is 5 seconds and quite a bit of their mana. That leaves us with 7 seconds to attack at 50% slower speed, so 1h would be lucky to get 2 hits in and 2h would be lucky to even get 1 hit in. That is unless they combine it with Crusader. Besides, you've got time to get the hell out of their when we start casting to heal. Not like a Paladin has a move to catch up to a Mages blink or a Rogues sprint.
phew, I wish I had 12 seconds of total immunity that wipes every negative status effect in the game, with the only penalty being a 50% slower attack speed, when there's a seal you can cast to boost your attack speed by like 40% to almost negate the penalty of divine shield altogether!

And your argument about mana pool? False, false, and false. You realize you can get as much or more mana than any other class in the game, because you get access to 4 types of body armor that can all have + intellect on them? And get a 5 minute duration buff that gives a passive + mana every 5 seconds?
 
firex said:
phew, I wish I had 12 seconds of total immunity that wipes every negative status effect in the game, with the only penalty being a 50% slower attack speed, when there's a seal you can cast to boost your attack speed by like 40% to almost negate the penalty of divine shield altogether!

And your argument about mana pool? False, false, and false. You realize you can get as much or more mana than any other class in the game, because you get access to 4 types of body armor that can all have + intellect on them? And get a 5 minute duration buff that gives a passive + mana every 5 seconds?

Great, I can attack 3 times if I use 1h or 2 times if I use 2h when I combine Crusader with Divine Shield. With a Paladins HUGE DPS I'm sure we are a real threat.

I never mentioned a Paladins mana pool. I just said fully healing takes quite a bit of mana, which it does. Rank 8 Holy Light costs me near 600 mana per heal, combine that with blessings and seals and a Paladin can eat up their mana pretty quickly. Most Paladins spec with strength/stamina bonuses, because of low DPS output and to take more hits so we don't have to heal as often. And with all 5 points in Wisdom, it's 30 mana every 5 seconds, which isn't going to do much in a PvP fight when you're low on mana.
 
On the subject of Mind Soothe:

Well first off, to MAF who asked how we feel about the mind soothe and animal soothe nerf. I am a priest so i hate it. My reasoning is this, I understand that people were abusing it but i would rather just have elites immune to it and that would end the abuse. They also said it was being abused outdoors as well...umm ok, so they don't want us to be walking past enemies in instances or OUTDOORS? Why even give the spell? they obviously never actually wanted us to use it...

Myself i used it on enemies to get past them to get to the next town or just to travel quicker. Sometimes i even used it in instances to get back to my group after I die and a few of the enemies respawned. As a priest i'm usually the first to die in groups so it was nice being able to walk back to my group without them needing to escort me or come to rescue me. In my mind it was too dangerous a spell to use while fighting because even though they were soothed most of the time there are too many enemies too close together to try to sneak by them all...and if you happen to get one that notices you while they were soothed, then it took longer than 15 seconds to kill them and move on, meaning the enemies you soothed previously now were no longer soothed and they would jump into the fight.

But the two things that bother me the most, first, they thought it was so important to change, so game breaking that they had to change it immediately without telling any of the players?! We have Paladins walking around immune to everything (will get to this later) and so many other things broken, but at the TOP of the list of things to change was how priests could use their abilities to walk past "content". It was so important that they haven't even changed the text of the spell to include the new drawbacks, it still reads instant cast...

Which leads me to the second thing that amazes me, instead of fixing the problem, they just made the ability useless. They made it have a cast time of about 1.5 seconds, only castable on humanoids, and a chance to make the enemy attack us. Did it really require all 3 changes? wouldn't it of been fine if they just added that chance for them to attack us? or just being able to be cast on humanoids? or adding a cast time? did they really have to add all 3? completely changing the spell and now giving us no reason to use it?

This ability had no effect in PvP, so the people complaining about it, can't even use it in PvP, so they are not complaining about PvP use.

On the subject of Paladins:

How can you think that as a paladin, you should be able to be immune to all attacks for 12 seconds, and while immune still being able to heal yourself uninterrupted? As a bonus this also cures all ailments and you can still attack, even at half speed...even with the shittiest DPS, lets say 1 DPS, even Onyxia couldn't even hurt you for that 12 seconds. How is it fair to think that you should be able to attack but be completely immune and cured of everything and cast heal to bring yourself back to full? Even if you have no mana remaining after healing, you just healed yourself with no worries for 12 seconds that anything will happen to you? It makes no sense, Horde doesn't even have paladin's, so they don't have this immunity. Maybe if both sides had it, it would be a little more fair, but only alliance have them. In PvP, cloth wearers are lucky to be alive for more than 12 seconds, nevermind being immune for 12 seconds.
 
Warrior is underpowered yes, big time. But Paladin is simply not that overpowered, IMO. I've duo'd with one for 48 levels.

If you took the immunity away from the class, or nerfed them heavily, without rebuilding a lot of it, you'd fucking ruin the class.

Barring the Retribution spec'd, 2H using solo/duel kiddies, who are majorly fucking gimped in group activity, the Paladin's only real trait is support and survivability.

PS: That Shield sheds all hate in PvE, find a new arguement regarding that portion. AFAIK, Warrior is still the best thing to tank that Dragon.

The Pally is one of the most polished jobs in the game, along with Rogue and a few others, but of all the times I've fought pallies as a susposed Paladin fodder Rogue, I would still never say that it's much overpowered. Cheesy at times? Yes. Pampered? Yes. But otherwise, no. IMO.
 
Scyn said:
On the subject of Paladins:

How can you think that as a paladin, you should be able to be immune to all attacks for 12 seconds, and while immune still being able to heal yourself uninterrupted? As a bonus this also cures all ailments and you can still attack, even at half speed...even with the shittiest DPS, lets say 1 DPS, even Onyxia couldn't even hurt you for that 12 seconds. How is it fair to think that you should be able to attack but be completely immune and cured of everything and cast heal to bring yourself back to full? Even if you have no mana remaining after healing, you just healed yourself with no worries for 12 seconds that anything will happen to you? It makes no sense, Horde doesn't even have paladin's, so they don't have this immunity. Maybe if both sides had it, it would be a little more fair, but only alliance have them. In PvP, cloth wearers are lucky to be alive for more than 12 seconds, nevermind being immune for 12 seconds.

How many moves do paladins get that allows them to run from a PvP battle? Zero. A mage can poly and blink, a rogue can vanish and sprint, a warrior can stun multiple times and has fear, a warlock can fear and charm, a shaman has earthbind, frost shock and can morph, druids can root and morph and hunters get concussive shot and aspect of the cheetah. That one 6 second stun Paladins get isn't very helpful when running away, especially when it's resisted.
 
Scyn said:
On the subject of Paladins:

How can you think that as a paladin, you should be able to be immune to all attacks for 12 seconds, and while immune still being able to heal yourself uninterrupted? As a bonus this also cures all ailments and you can still attack, even at half speed...even with the shittiest DPS, lets say 1 DPS, even Onyxia couldn't even hurt you for that 12 seconds. How is it fair to think that you should be able to attack but be completely immune and cured of everything and cast heal to bring yourself back to full? Even if you have no mana remaining after healing, you just healed yourself with no worries for 12 seconds that anything will happen to you? It makes no sense, Horde doesn't even have paladin's, so they don't have this immunity. Maybe if both sides had it, it would be a little more fair, but only alliance have them. In PvP, cloth wearers are lucky to be alive for more than 12 seconds, nevermind being immune for 12 seconds.

people blow divine shield out of proportion.....id understand if it had low cooldown time, it would be bullshit, but cmon.....yall have abilities that we wish we had as well.

all the paladin hate is funny.....LEARN how to FIGHT a paladin.

you cant fight a paladin the same way ud fight other classes.

and rogues need to learn to move around alot more and use kick/gouge at the right moments if they wanna be successful against a paladin.

peace
 
Id blow off the Paladin hate if the census on so many servers indicated such a slant towards the class. its not cause their edgy cool either. They're a generic warrior design.

The Paladin issue is sorta a mirror image of the vampiir problem in DAoC right now.

(actually I noticed a shitload of warlocks start popping up on horde)
 
I made my paladin because I am a fan of Paladin from TFT.

if i ever played humans id always pick "Pdiddy" aka Paladin as my hero.

alot of human players on tft slept on his skill in that game.

peace
 
well obviously im not saying everyone who made a pal are in it for the cheese, but if I am to make that exception you must conceed that there is definitely a better chance people play the class because its overpowered and not because they liked them in TFT.
 
MrAngryFace said:
well obviously im not saying everyone who made a pal are in it for the cheese, but if I am to make that exception you must conceed that there is definitely a better chance people play the class because its overpowered and not because they liked them in TFT.

but they arent overpowered.

if anyone is overpowered imo...it would be shaman.

peace
 
it's absolute bullshit that shaman is overpowered at all. shamans are easily killed by warlocks, rogues, shadow priests... hell, any class that knows how to counter their abilities (luckily, they actually stack up ok against paladins. a group without a shaman pretty much has to have 3 people at the least focus fire on the pally to kill him/her). the only way to beat a paladin is to outlast them, which basically no class can do except a high int/spirit shaman. there's no counter for divine shield or lay on hands (which is just retarded at higher ranks since you can use it with ~30 mana left and GAIN mana back from it in addition to the full HP heal), and there's no use for lay on hands in pve whatsoever so it's always ready for pvp use. shamans can't do any one of their three strengths (healing, melee, casting) better than the best of that class (priest/druid, rogue, mage/warlock/shadow priest) and there are tons of counters for every ability they have, not to mention totems are gimp as hell in pvp with the exception of earthbind and grounding totems.

people have been whining about shamans as "overpowered" for a longass time in beta, mostly complaining "omg they have mail and shields and can heal" without doing any number crunching or admitting that paladins get plate, shields, and can heal. they bitch about their spell damage, but because shamans take tons of damage from any caster class or rogue, they have to focus more on heals. and the equipment bitching is ridiculous when, if shamans didn't have shields or mail, the horde would have one endgame mail class, and one shield class (and, like in beta before the level cap was raised to 40 and shamans could train mail, there was no use for all of the +int/spirit mail that dropped).

in the endgame, a shaman is good for a few totem buffs that give resistances and as a backup healer, while a paladin has auras that give the same strong resistances in auras (and, in fact, gets a shadow resistance aura, which is far better than the nature resistance totem that shamans get), the best armor in the game, and massive damage against undead (who make up a majority of mobs in 2 of the 4 top instances in the game at the moment). So a paladin in the endgame can be a main tank or a very durable offtank, can heal almost as good as a shaman (their big heal casts faster by default and for only about 100 hp less on average) and are a major reason to be brought along in pve just for their damage against all of the undead in scholomance and stratholme. shamans can't tank period in the endgame - mail gets chewed up fast by level 50 and up elites (just not as fast as cloth and leather).

divine shield is just a bs move in pvp (it's ok in pve since it dumps aggro on everyone else, though this also makes it useless in a lot of respects so like LOH, it's almost always cooled down for pvp exclusively) and either needs its duration shortened, status cleansing effect taken away, or cooldown lengthened. I mean, my warlock has death coil, which at rank 1 does about 300 damage and heals me for 300 (if it does that much damage) and has twice the cooldown of divine shield. at the highest rank it does 470 base damage (by 60 it might, maybe approach 500ish) which is nice, but rarely used due to the cooldown and massive hate it generates. a warrior has retaliation, which counters every front/side melee attack for 15 seconds, or recklessness, which increases critical rate, makes them immune to fear effects, but also makes them take 20% more damage for 15 seconds. and both of these abilities are on a 30 minute cooldown, which is even linked so that if you use one you can't use the other. oh, or they can do shield wall, which reduces all damage taken by 75% for 10 seconds, and is linked to the same 30 minute cooldown. I think the only class that gets a skill that's almost as good as divine shield (but is countered by the warriors' overpower skill, unlike divine shield which has no counter) is the rogue, with evasion (+50% dodge rate for 15 sec. and a 5 minute cooldown) and vanish (essentially auto re-stealth for 10 seconds and breaks snares, 5 minute cooldown - countered by any DOT effect or just having some improved stealth detection, available from many different sources like alchemy, engineering, warlock pets, a quested noncombat pet available to high level players, and hunter skills). the shaman's long-cooldown ability is just something used to save a group from having to restart in an instance if they wipe - a self-resurrection that's not only weak, it also incurs 10 minutes of resurrection sickness, so the group pretty much has to wait for 10 minutes before they can resume. druids get a combat resurrection with a half hour cooldown, and it also requires reagents... so it's not a great spell, just a failsafe if for some reason all but the druid die in the group.

jesus, I've gone on a huge rant, sorry for the long read. but the point of it is that divine shield is way overpowered in pvp and nigh on useless in pve (except soloing, I guess) along with lay on hands, and the only defense is that they have long cooldowns... while any other class with long cooldown abilities (which is basically everyone but the mage, priest and hunter) has either far worse abilities or counters for those abilities. They need some nerfs just to be balanced in line with the other classes.
 
Question: Can a Paladin use any type of ranged weapon at all? As far as I know, they can't, ever. I'd just like someone to confirm that to me.
 
I can understand Fire's dismay with Paladins, but once again, it's a very one-sided rant, leaving out gigantic chunks of information.

I think if anything, you need to understand that despite apparent versitility, and the pampering Blizzard gives them, Paladins have some pretty hefty limits and a total lack of certain functions that are present in most classes.

On top of that, survivability is their only asset. Their typical "role" DPS is crap. Yeah, if they spec themselves right and slap on the correct seals and blessings, they can compete decently, but that also means sacrificing a lot of what, you know, actually makes the class GOOD. The solo/duel spec'd Pallies are fairly (*cough*very*cough*)mediocre in later Instances and any form of Group PvP.

I mostly agree with the typical LoH rant. LoH should, IMO be reduced to target group member only in exchange for a (slightly) lesser cooldown.

I totallly disagree with it lacking PvE function, but it's basicly a defining "cheap move" that mostly deserves the flak it gets as it currently acts as a "free life" for the PLD.

Although, I'm sure Rogues everywhere would sign your "nerf the shield" petition, since the class would then be a total sitting duck for us to maim at will almost effortlessly. :p

Keeb: No ranged whatsoever 'cept their little Undead only damage spell. They also lack any form of crowd control or escape tactic, mages will also chew 'em up if left unassisted, as they only have one interruption tool (HoJ) running on a 45-sec timer.

Last parts in ref. to PvE. Send Combat Rogues to off-tank magic users. =) <3 Combat Rogue. Too bad respeccing is around the corner...Damn you, combat tree, for only working against stupid people in PvP.
 
Alex said:
Keeb: No ranged whatsoever 'cept their little Undead only damage spell.

A Holy Spec Paladin has Holy Shock at the end of their tree, which is a ~200 damage Holy nuke with 30 yd (20, maybe, if I'm wrong?) range. But that's it. And how many Holy Paladins do I see running around? Less than the number of Troll Mages I've seen. And I'm an Orc :P

On the topic of Divine Shield: I'm a rogue, and I can safely say they need it to stand a snowball's chance in Hell of winning against a Rogue. It can be a bit cheesier than Kraft Cheese and Macaroni, but it's almost neccessary. After all, Rogues can't own EVERY class in dueling/PvP. Everyone's got an Achilles' Heel, and Paladins/Warriors are a Rogue's. Overpower sucks. Can't dodge/parry that, so it's basically hitting for 400-500 damage (non-crit) when used... 1800 HP doesn't last very long on that for a 44 Rogue.
 
Holy talent tree is lacking at the moment, as far as I'm aware, akin to the Demonology tree for Warlocks.

Protection is susposedly the way to go, mixing and matching the rest of your points. For any type of group play, and upper game in general.

Of course, none of this matters with the typical children than play the job.

By the way, I'm level 48 (Rogue for the unaware), we went into Uldaman to wrap up some quests for some slightly lowers in our guild, and took a random Paladin from town with since we only had one non-preist healer on duty, and everyone else was busy.

This guy was level 44. Not only did he bring a 2H into an instance with two Rogues a Hunter and a Druid(I think, cant remember) (only blessing might, never changing auras, and only using that fucking DPS seal, in typical Paladin idiocy), but it was the goddamn AFK mallet back from level 20. WHEN WILL THIS THING FADE OUT!?

I try so hard to defend poor Pallies, the good ones truly are well played and so helpful. But the fact that 99% of the folks who play the class can be so damn dumb at times will always ensure my pulling a 180 as soon as I log back on.
 
I started a Paladin intending for it to be just a 'test' character, to get me familiar with the game. I kept playing it because it is a good class for solo play (which is 95% of what I do). At level 36, I'm already beginning to see the DPS drop off compared to other classes. Most of the other classes I run across with the same level kill stuff faster than me.

IMO, the biggest balance problem present currently is that Warriors are under powered. Rather than nerfing Paladins, they need to fix Warriors weaknesses.

Edit: I'm currently playing a Protection build, with Holy Shield as one of my main talents. I did complete the quest for Verigans fist, but never used it - I don't want to give up my shield! Besides, if you work at getting a good one hand weapon, your total damage can nearly match that of a two hander (most of your final DPS rating comes from sources other than your weapon).

From reading other forums, it seems like Consecration (Retribution Tree) is highly valued by high level Pallies. Not so much for the damage, but for getting and holding aggro on multiple mobs.
 
divine shield is a major problem in pvp though. there's just no counter for it whatsoever (unless you count bandaging/using potions and healthstones or healing yourself with spells/items as a counter) and it can be activated while feared. for a class that has to stack debuffs to have a shot at beating a paladin there's pretty much no way to win. and nothing's more annoying than invulnerability. as far as how I'd change LOH there's really 2 options:
make it only castable on other party members, or make it restore a fixed % of hp per rank and not restore mana. in terms of divine shield's duration nerfing, I'd really just like to see it be in line with divine protection. it's an upgrade to divine protection by allowing you to attack, so just letting the duration of it be equivalent for each rank is fair if you ask me. That's still more than long enough for a paladin to get 2 heals off for each rank.

paladin talents also need to be reordered a little bit. Right now it's just way too easy to make builds where the paladin can buff all of their strengths effectively. and a lot of their "ultimate" talents are just sick. for going holy you get a strong instacast damage spell with no resistances (though it can at least be countered by holy protection potions), for protection you get a CC spell (limited, but it adds an entire new angle to the class that really shouldn't exist IMO) and for retribution you get a blessing that pretty much negates the purpose of mark of the wild as a buff (as if druids didn't have enough problems getting groups anyway). holy shock and blessing of kings aren't really bad, but the protection talent is just crazy if you ask me. not to mention it has absolutely zero to do with the rest of the talent tree, so it'd make more sense to me if this was replaced with an uber defensive skill. they aren't drastically overpowered or anything, but the talents are far and away the best of any class and will more than likely receive some readjustments.
 
Bleh. I wouldn't be surprised if Paladins were actually warped enough to be climbing Retribution for something like that. Climbing Retribution for a costly, and still vastly underpowered attempt at emulating an AoE taunt just screams lazy, IMO.

The tree isn't a total wash by any means, and while I'm pretty down on it, I understand that it has it's uses and roles, but IMHO, remains solely for solo grinding and dueling if you're putting any tangible number of points into it.

Protection is just downright spiffy.

~Edit: I don't think I'll ever stop calling taunt; provoke and threat; enmity.
 
yesterday, at full life, i was killed by a rogue without being able to attack or move once.

discuss. he was a 46 rogue i was a 42 hunter.

I had track hidden on and of course that doesnt work at all.
 
Alex said:
Bleh. I wouldn't be surprised if Paladins were actually warped enough to be climbing Retribution for something like that. Climbing Retribution for a costly, and still vastly underpowered attempt at emulating an AoE taunt just screams lazy, IMO.

The tree isn't a total wash by any means, and while I'm pretty down on it, I understand that it has it's uses and roles, but IMHO, remains solely for solo grinding and dueling if you're putting any tangible number of points into it.

Protection is just downright spiffy.

~Edit: I don't think I'll ever stop calling taunt; provoke and threat; enmity.

From what I understand high level Pallies have a lot of trouble maintaining aggro against the damage other classes are doing at that point. Consecration + Seal Fury = Instant hate.

As far as the 'Ultimate' talents go: they are all of questionable worth IMO. Holy Shock is nice, but it can't really be used as a primary attack. At best it is a great pulling tool. Repentance is just a weak version of Polymorph. The only one I would ever think of getting is Blessing of Kings. The critical flaw of all of them is that they simply aren't worth investing that many precious talent points to get. If I already was spending 30 talent points in the Holy or Retribution tree, I would consider Holy Shock or Blessing of Kings, but never otherwise.
 
sp0rsk said:
yesterday, at full life, i was killed by a rogue without being able to attack or move once.

discuss. he was a 46 rogue i was a 42 hunter.

I had track hidden on and of course that doesnt work at all.

Hunters and Mages (In my experience) are the 2 easiest classes for a Rogue to kill (I can kill a mage in ~5 seconds at equal level, less if they're lower, saying I get the drop on them). There are also Stunlock Rogue builds that are specifically designed for about 12-13 seconds of stun. Works very well in PvP. Nowhere near as well in PvE, as you have to sacrifice damage dealing to do it, and the mob has to cooperate.

Also, Track Hidden doesn't work like conventional tracking. It raises your stealth detection by a bit, and shows hidden enemies that you can see on your compass (which doesn't matter if you're looking right at them already).
 
I'm not saying to completely remove pally shield, but i think it should be brought more in line to other classes shields.

As a priest my shield is limited to about 300 dmg atm, lvl 35, and does not block rogues stuns.

Mage mana shield is limited as well and drains twice as much mana for every damage taken, of course there are talents to reduce this, but mage shields do have a limit before they're taken down and is at the cost of mana.

Warlocks can get a shield by sacrificing their warlocks, this shield is similiar to the priest shield and is taken down after so much dmg is taken, but completely lose their pet.

Pally's shield is invincible, heals them of any ailments, and you can still attack at half speed or cast at full speed. This is on a 5 minute recast timer though so can't be cast often.

Now lets play sesame street and guess which of these things is not like the other...

I'm not saying completely remove the shield, but paladin's also get a dispel type of spell, which costs little mana. This spell removes one disease, one magic effect and one poison, all at the same time. So for the shield i say take out the ailment cure, you shouldn't be able to cure everything with it. As a priest i can only dispel magic and cure disease, that's it, i can't cure poisons, can't cure curses, can't cure those ailments that don't fall in one of the 4 categories. I'm a priest and i can't even cure my members of all ailments and the ones i can cure have seperate spells, so with abolish disease, i can only cure disease, it's not an all in one heal like the pally one.

Next have some sort of damage absorbtion so that after x amount of dmg has been dealt it is removed. All the other shields in the game have this, why doesn't pally? give the shield double what a priest's shield can absorb and reduce the cooldown timer so it can be used more often, but to let the shield be completely invincible while everyone else's shields are not, is unfair. It's unfair to the other shields and also unfair to any players who are trying to kill the Pally, that there is no way to remove it, except to wait for the timer. As mentioned, the shield has no weakness or counter, and it should be given something. It doesn't even have to be damage absorbtion, maybe something else, except i'm not creative enough to think of anything atm.
 
Priests are one of the best classes in the game.. for soloing, for pvp, for grouping. If I was a dps class, I would be pretty upset that a priest can do some nice damage, let alone that they can do some pretty nice damage, all while healing the party.

These were a couple changes to keep people from exploiting encounters. If priests are outraged now, I can't wait for the real nerf bat.. and it is coming.
 
I play a priest so that i can be in a group and heal, so i also specced in holy. Shadow is the talent tree that is the damage line and it is a great tree to spec in, i don't spec in it cause i wanted my priest to heal, not do damage.

ATM shadow is the only line for a priest that actually is worthwhile, but all it does is add damage, and doesn't improve healing at all, so in groups, it doesn't help much since you want to save mana for healing. Since you shouldn't be using it in groups, most priest who spec shadow do it so they can solo, and that's what the shadow spec is good for, soloing. As far as dmg of the shadow spec, the main reason it's so useful is not because it increases your DPS, which it does do slightly, but it actually increases you damage per mana. It helps reduce downtime because your spells are more efficient and it also adds utility, like a 50% speed reduction and a silence spell. As soon as a priest no longer needs to solo, 55+, most spec out of shadow and focus on healing to be able to group in the large instances. Also the ability that allows them to do the most damage, shadow form, also restricts them to shadow spells, so they cannot heal when they are doing dmg.

As a holy specced priest i can tell you, it's not good. I also group with my brother when i play my priest, and he's a rogue, so i don't have to worry about damage. BTW we compare DPS and he usually doubles me easily. What a lot of the priest are asking for is not a buff to their class, but a buff to their heals. Their best heal, greater heal, has almost the same efficiency (heal per mana or heal per second) as their other heals and takes 4 seconds to cast. 4 seconds to cast a heal is a long time in a fight. it's better to just cast two regular heals.

Also I spec holy so I can heal, when I spec the holy tree, the talents i gain are all DAMAGE spells! I get a 5 second spell that does x dmg plus another y damage over z amount of time. I don't want damage spells when I spec my healing line... especially crappy 5 second cast time ones. Also the final ability in the holy tree is holy nova, PBAOE for a small amount of damage, I think it's less than 200 damage at lvl 60. Again I don't want damage spells when i spec a healing line. If I want to do damage I have the shadow line. Give me new healing spells, maybe a combat rez, anything that involves healing.

OK I lied. There is one spell in the holy line that does heal. It's instant cast, requires no mana, no cooldown, heals the entire group for about 400 health, plus another 400 health over 24 seconds or so. The problem with the spell? the only reason i can't spam cast it? The reason i don't even spec it?...


...It is only cast when I die. Yes, I have to DIE so that I can heal my group with that spell. And if i'm dying, there are bigger problems than worrying about a last second heal.
 
Blizzard does need to do something about Paladins, but they are no where near as overpowered as some people like to think.

From my experiences, Paladins are the most BORING class to play, and i've tried them all. If Blizzard does an extreme nerf, then the class will effectively be ruined.
 
Scyn said:
I'm not saying to completely remove pally shield, but i think it should be brought more in line to other classes shields.

As a priest my shield is limited to about 300 dmg atm, lvl 35, and does not block rogues stuns.

Mage mana shield is limited as well and drains twice as much mana for every damage taken, of course there are talents to reduce this, but mage shields do have a limit before they're taken down and is at the cost of mana.

Warlocks can get a shield by sacrificing their warlocks, this shield is similiar to the priest shield and is taken down after so much dmg is taken, but completely lose their pet.

Pally's shield is invincible, heals them of any ailments, and you can still attack at half speed or cast at full speed. This is on a 5 minute recast timer though so can't be cast often.

Now lets play sesame street and guess which of these things is not like the other...

I'm not saying completely remove the shield, but paladin's also get a dispel type of spell, which costs little mana. This spell removes one disease, one magic effect and one poison, all at the same time. So for the shield i say take out the ailment cure, you shouldn't be able to cure everything with it. As a priest i can only dispel magic and cure disease, that's it, i can't cure poisons, can't cure curses, can't cure those ailments that don't fall in one of the 4 categories. I'm a priest and i can't even cure my members of all ailments and the ones i can cure have seperate spells, so with abolish disease, i can only cure disease, it's not an all in one heal like the pally one.

Next have some sort of damage absorbtion so that after x amount of dmg has been dealt it is removed. All the other shields in the game have this, why doesn't pally? give the shield double what a priest's shield can absorb and reduce the cooldown timer so it can be used more often, but to let the shield be completely invincible while everyone else's shields are not, is unfair. It's unfair to the other shields and also unfair to any players who are trying to kill the Pally, that there is no way to remove it, except to wait for the timer. As mentioned, the shield has no weakness or counter, and it should be given something. It doesn't even have to be damage absorbtion, maybe something else, except i'm not creative enough to think of anything atm.

Why shouldn't the Paladin have unique abilities that no other class has? Other classes have unique abilities of their own, many of which I envy.
 
I'm not saying they shouldn't have it, i'm just saying someone on the horde side should be able to do something against it. All of my abilities have some sort of anti-ability or is only used to counteract another ability. The pally shield has no weakness.
 
Paladins would pretty much get owned by every class in the game without the bubble. Spell interruption at point blank range is just too easy-I think that almost every class save the druid and warlock has a way of instantly interrupting spellcasting when in melee range, so they'd never be able to get a heal off (and a warlock has curse of toungues anyway to slow spellcasting to a crawl).

The last thing the game needs is another gimped to hell class like the warrior, and a paladin without bubble shield is even gimpier than a warrior (who at least has charge/intercept to catch someone at range, which a paladin cannot).

A well-played Shaman or Shadow Priest will manhandle a Paladin. A mage against a paladin is a hilariously easy fight for the mage. Warlocks can do it too, will take more work than a mage but it's doable. Rogues and Warriors will get owned, but each class pretty much has another class or two that will roast them, given equivalent skill levels for both players.

I'm convinced people who whine incessantly about paladins don't understand their weakness (no range, low mana pools on all but the endgame paladins) and fail to exploit it (get range).

And don't start whining about fear if you're Horde. Half your playerbase has fear purge+immunity on a 2M recast timer.
 
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