AuthenticM
Member
People settling for mediocrity and not pushing for more. Not my thing.
What do you want from Persona 5 ? Here's my take.
- Thread starter AuthenticM
- Start date
People settling for mediocrity and not pushing for more. Not my thing.
fallingdove
Member
I agree, generally speaking. Though P3's MC was basically a blank slate, it seemed to work well in the context of the gameplay/story they created for P3.
Meh, I wouldn't called (half) silent protagonist as mediocricity if it allows the developer to tamper with more diverse dialogue.
charlequin
Banned
It's just a matter of degree. Substitute a Madden game where you play hockey if that helps you understand better. I don't think it's actually hard to grasp the idea that "adventure story with high school kids" could be a fundamental defining element of a given video game franchise.
This establishes better than I possibly could have why your "the next Persona game should be some totally different thing instead!" argument is so silly. (The silent protagonist is even more of a staple than the high school setting.)
AuthenticM
Member
It's not silly. The Mass Effect games brought life to its story and immersion to its universe moreso than Jade Empire and the Kotor games preceding them did, I and loved these games. I really appreciated the story in Persona 3 and 4, and I'm sure I would even more if the next game had a voiced protagonist. Catherine proved that.
edit: and also, asking for a university setting and a voiced protagonist is in no way demanding that the next Persona game "be something totally different". It's not akin to demanding that the next Call of Duty be transformed into a dating sim either. You're blowing things way out of proportion and are asking for people to not take what you're saying seriously.
AuthenticM, it really sounds silly. You want Persona to change its skeleton. I played Catherine too, and while I really liked it, I don't necessarily want the two franchises to bleed into each other. Especially not something like Mass Effect into a JRPG franchise like Persona. And I'm going to again repeat what everybody else has said; a university setting doesn't make much sense. Because in Japan, university is considered to be a relatively boring part of life. Unlike high school. Which is what sells in Japan and the Persona franchise has been doing for a while now. I'd like cast members that are older(ex. I would have liked Dojima to have joined the Investigation Team in some capacity instead of simply being treated like a giant roadblock that goes selectively deaf whenever TVs and 'Other World' gets brought up), but the Protagonist is most likely staying a high-schooler doing glorified high-schooler stuff.
Forgive me if I'm being a bit presumptuous, but it comes across as though you want the Persona 'mythos' such as Personas, S-Links and Shadows to be applied to something...that does not sound like a Persona game anymore. You call a silent protagonist backwards, I call it leaving things to the imagination. Otherwise you end up with Mass Effect-style 'I chose this option, but Shepard said something that comes across completely differently!' In a game like Persona where the writing carries most of the game, that happening is a non-starter. What isn't said often means just as much as what is said in Persona 3/4.
You're my favorite Persona-related poster.
Forgive me if I'm being a bit presumptuous, but it comes across as though you want the Persona 'mythos' such as Personas, S-Links and Shadows to be applied to something...that does not sound like a Persona game anymore. You call a silent protagonist backwards, I call it leaving things to the imagination. Otherwise you end up with Mass Effect-style 'I chose this option, but Shepard said something that comes across completely differently!' In a game like Persona where the writing carries most of the game, that happening is a non-starter. What isn't said often means just as much as what is said in Persona 3/4.
You're my favorite Persona-related poster.
Aussie Legend
Banned
So have insiders dropped any deets around GAF up to this point? Really getting rather impatient Atlus 
So have insiders dropped any deets around GAF up to this point? Really getting rather impatient Atlus
That Persona 5's reveal has gotten delayed like three times now if the rumors are to be believed. It's killing us all.
John Rabbit
Banned
you seem like the kind of person who is unable to distinguish between "things i simply dislike" and "things that are genuinely bad".
Crash Station
Member
So have insiders dropped any deets around GAF up to this point? Really getting rather impatient Atlus
A few have. It was supposed to be revealed before TGS apparently, but the acquisition pushed it back.
Has any of the game's creators gone on record about the school setting being a vital element of Persona? To me, the series is defined by demon fusion, Social Links and the calendar system, not by the age or occupation of the protagonists.
Same goes for the silent MC; I really liked how Yu had actual conversations in Arena while still talking little enough to feel like an insert for the player. I wouldn't mind if they did something similar in P5.
I think a lot of people would argue that the Social Link aspect is now a defining characteristic of Persona games, even though it was not present in earlier games. Fans of the early games may very well have said that Kaneko's art was essential to the series; now you may find many who say the same about Soejima.
You can objectively come up with a list of elements that are common to all the games, but determining which of those elements is essential is subjective. So maybe it's worth hearing a person out rather than immediately writing them off as "silly" or "dopey" if they don't share the same narrow view of what constitutes the essential elements of the series.
He's on every page of this thread and the posts he's referencing are, well, pretty fucking dopey, to be blunt.
HS and S. Links aren't going anywhere because P4 (meaning $$$) and we already know Soejima is lead artist on the next game, so there's no point in questioning whether his art is vital. For the immediate future, it most certainly is.
charlequin
Banned
You're like all the people who whine about random encounters or turn-based combat or any other random game feature that isn't actually outdated.
Hcoregamer00
The 'H' stands for hentai.
I want one thing more than anything, a Playable Female Lead choice.
After playing through P3 Portable I realized just how much having a Female Lead can improve the persona experience just with a different character dynamic with the other cast and the social links they can develop.
Make P5 with a female lead and I would jump in, no matter what console or portable console it is on.
After playing through P3 Portable I realized just how much having a Female Lead can improve the persona experience just with a different character dynamic with the other cast and the social links they can develop.
Make P5 with a female lead and I would jump in, no matter what console or portable console it is on.
charlequin
Banned
It's also a completely different thing in just about every way from Persona.
Yes, it's definitely come up in the decade and a half since the franchise launched (or longer, if you count back to Shin Megami Tensei If....)
We've done this dance many times before, though. There are certainly proposals in threads like this for interesting new twists on the franchise, and it's interesting to talk about those. But "it should be set in college!" and "It should be more like Mass Effect!" are not them.
Glad you are here to tell us what is interesting.
Or maybe it's preference. Derp.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I want:
1. Customizable character. As in, character generator like in Mass Effect games or Dragon's Dogma. It would be so awesome if they have this.
2. More integration between social link and storyline/gameplay. I mean, if I make character A my girlfriend/boyfriend, then allow me to see the implications on the main storyline/gameplay. Let the main bad dude kidnap him/her or something like that, or make other characters comment on my relationship with that loved one. P4G did this, to an extent, but it's nowhere enough.
I think that's it... for the main part.
Oh come on, this is silly. You are effectively trying to tell people to stop voicing their opinion on the matter.
It's not so much of a female is more interesting than male, but interesting character is more interesting than a less interesting character. However, personally, I don't want a female lead in the next Persona game, since I greatly prefer male lead over female lead. Or, if female lead is a thing, also make the choice of a male lead--this I don't mind.
1. Customizable character. As in, character generator like in Mass Effect games or Dragon's Dogma. It would be so awesome if they have this.
2. More integration between social link and storyline/gameplay. I mean, if I make character A my girlfriend/boyfriend, then allow me to see the implications on the main storyline/gameplay. Let the main bad dude kidnap him/her or something like that, or make other characters comment on my relationship with that loved one. P4G did this, to an extent, but it's nowhere enough.
I think that's it... for the main part.
Oh come on, this is silly. You are effectively trying to tell people to stop voicing their opinion on the matter.
It's not so much of a female is more interesting than male, but interesting character is more interesting than a less interesting character. However, personally, I don't want a female lead in the next Persona game, since I greatly prefer male lead over female lead. Or, if female lead is a thing, also make the choice of a male lead--this I don't mind.
I'm normally not one to make arguments like this, but, if a bunch of Persona fans have come into this thread saying they'd like a college/older cast, who are you to dismiss that as not interesting? Sure, you've said it won't happen, high school is part of Persona (and ridiculously compared High School -> College to CoD -> Dating Sim and Football -> Hockey), but does that mean it doesn't even warrant discussion? Anyone who wants that is a dope? It's kinda funny that you'll admit that one of the 5 main games in the series isn't set on high school kids but, uh, that doesn't count! And really, how much would need to be changed in Persona 3 to make it set at a college instead of a high school? A few lines of dialogue and the character's ages? Maybe mess with the school schedule a bit to make it seem more college-y? Doesn't seem like a major change.
And no matter how different a game Mass Effect is, that has nothing to do with the idea of a non-silent protagonist. Yes, Mass Effect is wildly different than Persona... does that mean that Persona cannot have a similar voiced character with dialogue options? He never even said "it should be like Mass Effect."
"The way Mass Effect handled the main character brought more emotion and immersion to the story. Maybe Persona should try something like that"
"MASS EFFECT IS A TOTALLY DIFFERENT KIND OF GAME!"
So? Persona can't be inspired by any non-JRPG "adventure story with high school kids" games?
Did you entirely miss the point of his post? The fact that Soejima is the lead artist is irrelevant. The point was, things that seem vital NOW may not seem so later. Like, silent protagonist and high school setting seem so vital to people now. But maybe Persona 5 (or eventually 6 or whatever) come out and are missing one or both those things... but the games are still great and feel very Persona-y. Maybe that wasn't so vital after all?
AuthenticM
Member
Dude, have you even read what I posted ? Holy shit. You're just embarrassing yourself.
Well you're the first who's said that people in Japan consider universities to be boring; previous posters said that college was, on top of being a completely different experience from college in the rest of the world. Are universities in Japan really considered boring ? Do students there not make friends and have fun ? I'm having a hard time believing this. If it truly is, just like college, a totally different experience from universities outside of Japan, then okay, I would understand if the games were never set there. But I need something more than a forum poster's word on the matter for me to believe this.
And again, I am not asking for the Persona games to change its "skeleton" or its soul or whatever you want to call it. I've made it very clear that I want the same experience that we've had with the last two games, except with the high school setting switched with a university and the protagonist having a voice, on top of tweaks here and there to the gameplay, akin to what Persona 4 Golden did (like being able to select the skills being transferred after a fusion). This is not "changing Persona 4's skeleton".
Some of you people make it sound like you think I want Persona to be turned into a fucking third-person shooter. It's not because you saw the words "Mass" and "Effect" in one of my posts that you have to stop reading there and immediately respond, as if you were having a pavlovian reflex.
Read what people post. All of it. And then formulate a reply based on the whole.
Goddamn, someone with reading skills. Thank you. I now have confirmation that I'm not going crazy.
KibblesBits
Member
College in Japan is more akin to a trade school if I remember correctly. You don't hang out there, you don't have events, and you don't really bond with people unless you work hard for it to happen. As others have said, in Japanese society it isn't as memorable as time spent in High School.
That said, school doesn't absolutely have to be the focus of the game even though it has pretty much been the identity of the series. I could see perhaps a throwback to P2:EP where there are young adults as the main cast who are struggling with balancing what it means to be youthful, but also mature and expected to meet certain expectations.
Persona as a series has been about finding one's self. This is a struggle for people coming into independence and adulthood as well.
A college student who misses his youth. A salaryman slaving away while dreaming of some other employment. A former or failed idol who is now unemployable. A single or standard mother who wants some adventure from her former active life. These things are possible and could resonate with the right crowd if presented properly and thoughtfully. There is plenty of mythology to support and enhance such stories or things of this nature too.
The question is, who is the target audience going to be and how will they react to it? P2:EP didn't do well iirc. Was it because of the somber tones of being an adult and trying to find ones way, or was it because it was so disconnected from the high school identity crisis of the series in general.
Answering and dissecting the differences and similarities between the issues pervasive in growing up and learning the truth of one's self, despite the setting are key to having a good story to sell if going by story alone for the Persona series.
Personally, I think it could be done. Even with the new social contract system, but it needs to be handled with excellent care.
That said, school doesn't absolutely have to be the focus of the game even though it has pretty much been the identity of the series. I could see perhaps a throwback to P2:EP where there are young adults as the main cast who are struggling with balancing what it means to be youthful, but also mature and expected to meet certain expectations.
Persona as a series has been about finding one's self. This is a struggle for people coming into independence and adulthood as well.
A college student who misses his youth. A salaryman slaving away while dreaming of some other employment. A former or failed idol who is now unemployable. A single or standard mother who wants some adventure from her former active life. These things are possible and could resonate with the right crowd if presented properly and thoughtfully. There is plenty of mythology to support and enhance such stories or things of this nature too.
The question is, who is the target audience going to be and how will they react to it? P2:EP didn't do well iirc. Was it because of the somber tones of being an adult and trying to find ones way, or was it because it was so disconnected from the high school identity crisis of the series in general.
Answering and dissecting the differences and similarities between the issues pervasive in growing up and learning the truth of one's self, despite the setting are key to having a good story to sell if going by story alone for the Persona series.
Personally, I think it could be done. Even with the new social contract system, but it needs to be handled with excellent care.
I don't think silent protagonist is somehow key to the Persona experience.
I would also argue that naming the protagonist would be better than having to come up with roundabout ways to get around it in spoken dialogue with other characters calling them leader, partner or whatever else.
I would also argue that naming the protagonist would be better than having to come up with roundabout ways to get around it in spoken dialogue with other characters calling them leader, partner or whatever else.
brickarts295
Member
-College Setting and make it bigger (let us explore it)
-Better Romance/Dating system
-More relistic time
-Male/Female protagonist and VOICED
-More variety with dungeons (if they're back)
-Everything else just keep the same as P4G
-Better Romance/Dating system
-More relistic time
-Male/Female protagonist and VOICED
-More variety with dungeons (if they're back)
-Everything else just keep the same as P4G
I agree with both of these things.
Like I say, if there is ever going to be an SMT game with a voiced protagonist, it will be one of Hashino's games.
I don't see this happening. It's easier to market preset characters (important for a character-driven series like Persona) and no Megaten game (including SMT IV, most recently) allow this so I don't see this happening anytime soon, if ever. Any preset character is going to be cooler than a customizable character too IMO.
A voiced protagonist is more likely but I don't see it happening soon either.
meltingparappa
Member
With most of these suggestions you can almost nix some of them because I don't think Atlus would blow the bank on the game, especially in light how long recent events must have been building.
I want to fight you.
charlequin
Banned
Well, at a certain level, the problem with this idea is that it stems from a fundamentally incurious attitude about the game. Persona is a franchise that, from its inception, has been built in large part around the concept of capturing life in Japan at a very fine level of detail. In P3 and P4, the game sets out to demonstrate even minute elements of the cultural, social, and organizational experience of life in an urban or rural (respectively) area, with immense attention to the details of social clubs, or school scheduling, or holidays, or what-have-you.
I understand that people are thinking about their own Western college experiences and saying "man it'd be neat to see that reflected in a game," but that experience doesn't exist in Japan. Trying to apply it to the series would mean just inventing something and shoehorning it in, and giving up on all of the slice-of-life realism. It's just kind of self-centered to prefer artists to pander to members of the audience rather than reflect their own experiences in their art.
I did. I think the idea of translating anything about the way Shepard is depicted in ME into Persona sounds awful.
What makes Shepard work? Part of it is that, no matter what you do, his/her personality is very well-defined and expressed already -- through the dialogue that gets written, the tone of voice, and way that the full dialogues with party members fill in who the main character is. There are basically two personalities for each gendered Shepard, the Paragon and Renegade (and then whatever inflections you can build from mix-and-matching those two.)
You apply that to Persona and it dramatically changes the experience. Both MCs are designed for you to pour your own personality into, and the game encourages that with choices that have shallower but broader character impacts (like what clubs you join and what S-Links you pursue heavily.) Voice them and that element of definition vanishes -- you're just filling in lines from a pre-defined character. All the Megaten RPGs (even DDS, which is supposed to be a cinematic story game) have silent protagonists for exactly this reason, and it's one of the most consistent tropes in the franchise. I don't think it'd be good at all to break away from that.
(That said, it's worth discussing, and I apologize for dismissing it so offhandedly in my first response!)
Well I mean they could do what mass effect does and have a canon protagonist for marketing and anime series purposes
go4theknees
Neo Member
They can do just about anything to the game they want, just keep social links and do not change the combat.