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What franchises need an overhaul?

I think that most people here would probably agree that the best thing that happened to the RE series was the complete overhaul of the franchise that Capcom did with RE4. The game is all the more impressive because it changes the direction of the game in so many ways while retaining the same feel of the previous games by retaining the same atmosphere and tension that made the series great.

What other games do you think could use an RE4 style overhaul? I think that a lot of franchises are relying too much on old gameplay mechanics and limitations that hold the series back despite the fact that the core elements of these franchises are still quite intriguing.

While I love Halo, I really think that the game needs to expand its scope now that several games integrate on-foot combat and vehicular combat so well. The combat itself is still rock-solid, so beyond a making a few changes, simply improving the combat won't do enough to make Halo 3 particularly impressive. I think that one of the most impressive aspects of the previous Halo games were their expansive enviroments and the strategic options availible to the player. I think that they could emphasize both of these elements by making the levels less linear. Instead of offering the alleys and tunnels of New Mombasa, they should let the player pick their own path through a large section of the city. That way, they get a sense of the full scale of the battle and the city while forcing them to pick their battles wisely. They could even let Master Chief call in support in a similar way to mercenaries so that the player could have more options open to them. Another great part of Halo was its AI, so they could expand on that by having both sides operate as real armies with generals and commanders coordinating the movements of units around the battlefield. The chief might have to stop his enemies from achieving their goals while simultaneously trying to accomplish his own goals, or he could disrupt the enemy chain of command by killing key officers or destroying their communications array.

Well, I've already typed more than enough. I was going to write some stuff about Metal Gear Solid, but I am more interested in hearing from you guys.
 
Metal Gear Solid needs to ditch is horrendous fucking camera and controls and go for something more Splinter Cell like.
 
Sonic Adventure. get rid of the free roaming crap and just give us action levels, starring Sonic. THAT'S ALL WE ASK!!!!
 
VerTiGo said:
Metal Gear Solid needs to ditch is horrendous fucking camera and controls and go for something more Splinter Cell like.

Why not just play Splinter Cell if that's what you want? They release one every year so you don't have to wait too long.

Anyway i'll go with TR. CD seems to be giving it the makeover its needed for awhile. This is basically their last chance to actually revive it so they've gotta come through.
 
I was also going to say that Metal Gear needs a new camera. The camera for that series was designed around the contrainsts of the original NES, so I think that they could do a little bit better now.

A splinter cell camera could work, but a modified RE4 control scheme would work well too. I bet that they could think of a lot of cool context sensitive actions for Snake.
 
I'd rehaul MGS, but none of the fans would like what I'd get rid of.

I have ideas for freshening up the fighting genre, emphasizing fast blocks and counters through analog sensitivity, BUT I don't know how hard that would be to execute.

When I think about it I have less desire to rehaul a franchise than I do to rehaul genres.
 
jett said:
The shit has hit the fan this early :lol

I'd say GTA, anything done by EA, possibly GT series (damage please damage simulation!).. I could name a few Nintendo franchises that I love but detest deep down inside but I won't bother to mention because they're quite small.

Oh and any 2D fighters. Granted they've tried their best with the limited scope but I'd like to see a Street Fighter II type of reformation. Something that takes over the world, makes a company huge and pumps out shit after shit rehash using the same sprites from the originals.
 
I second Zelda. We are about to get the 4th version of the OoT battle system and it's getting a little old and stale. Dungeons and the rest of the stuff doesn't need a rehaul, but a completely new battle system/lock-on system would do wonders for the series.

Onimusha needs a rehaul to, we'll see if Dawn of Dreams realizes this.

DoA needs a major rehaul to make it more of a serious competitive fighting series. Hopefully DoA4 will address this.
 
VerTiGo said:
Metal Gear Solid needs to ditch is horrendous fucking camera and controls and go for something more Splinter Cell like.
Are we thinking of ways to make games worse?

In that case, I think Tetris needs to be overhauled. Get rid of the whole thing with the lines moving by themselves. I want to control their speed--only makes sense.

I think Sonic needs to be overhauled. Give him a gun or something. Make him dark and gritty. Oh wait...

For real though, I'd like to see Need for Speed get overhauled in a way that'd make it a serious racing game and not a wall-riding, rubberband-AI borefest that it is. EA puts so much money into production and marketing and the games have zero substance.
 
Colin McRae Rally - They were going in the right direction with the driving model in CMR04 but they took two steps back in CMR2005 with physics almost worse than in CMR3. I would be nice to have a serious challenger for Richard Burns Rally since F'n Gizmondo stole Warthog. Same goes for WRC series, the cars are rediculously over modeled while the environment is suffering.
 
Pretty much every franchise that has had more than three installments now really need an overhaul of some sort, ideally.

Ones that top my list, though...

Many of the long-standing, much-rehashed Nintendo franchises.

- Mario needs to be more than just an water-pack add-on to Mario64 in a new game this coming gen.

- The new LoZ might give the series the overhaul it needs, though Zelda never feels as stale as most of the Ninty franchises anyway. Avoid tedious forms of travel and bring back the good level design of old please. WW was just laziness, gameplay-wise, IMO.

- Metroid definitely needs to be looked at again, because, IMO, the current console series just sucks. Yeah, it has loads of atmosphere, and it has that Metroid (and Zelda)-backtrack-gain-item-to-access-areas classic template, but the actual gameplay (outside of a few bosses) is limp and detached, unlike any of the 2D iterations. Retro's take on the series replaces the relatively lithe Samus found in the 2D games and makes her feel like a fucking tank with a missing tread...fix please.

- Just like most sports and other racing-related games, Mario Kart is fine with incremental improvements and changes with each new release. They just need to get this shit online and perhaps give players the chance to create their own tracks.


Microsoft's first party portfolio, though not as filled-out as Nintendo's...obviously because it's only been around this gen...

- As much as I love both Halo games, the third needs a new, major element of game-mechanics integrated into the package. Perhaps a simplified, non-intrusive form of squad control would be nice.

- Mechassault. This series, if it continues, needs to start incorporating a lot of the customization found in the PC games. The second game just doesn't do enough to the core gameplay and the single-player game still sucks.

Sony's stuff...hmmmm...actually, pretty damn good with just about every new sequel.

- Kill the Jak and Daxter series before it infects the next-gen PS, please.
 
Dark Cloud - The second game would have been perfection if it didn't have random dungeons and maybe a more complex battle system. Still damn close to my idea of the perfect PS2 RPG. Actually the random dungeon can stay if there is deeper battle system added, combat just needs to be more fun.

I would say Final Fantasy...but Square-Enix is already on top of that one.
 
Nintendo presently has at least two franchises where you are always the same hero saving the same princess from the same villain.

It's like the Smurfs always battling Gargamel. It works until you hit the ripe old age of seven.
 
Odysseus said:
Nintendo presently has at least two franchises where you are always the same hero saving the same princess from the same villain.

It's like the Smurfs always battling Gargamel. It works until you hit the ripe old age of seven.

And you think Nintendo will ever figure that out?
 
chespace said:
Gran Turismo.

You know what I thought would be really uber cool for the next Turismo?

If they fully incorporated the net/car community experience, by allowing players (who will no doubt include very knowledgable car nuts and automotive industry professionals) to write articles about cars, ranging from history to tuning guides, that could be then sent to the GT team for them to edit and place into the game which would be downloaded by the game. Then after a while, a player would go into the game... and look through manufacturer list, pull up a car, and read an encyclopedic like database about the selected car... or even track info, or tuner, brand, etc, etc, etc.

In addition to good online multiplay and full on damage modelling, the next GT would be an unrivaled interactive bible of car racing.
 
I disagree with Mario... just give us Mario 64 with beautiful graphics. They tried some gimmicky garbage with Sunshine I couldn't play it more after a day. I really hated it.

I would like MGS to stay as it is. If I want incredible action with some elementary stealth then I have MGS to satisfy me while SC can take care of the real stealth. Snake gets rocket launchers and can turn into Rambo and kill large groups where as in Splinter Cell if 2 enemies get on to you then youÂ’re pretty much dead. I like having two options. Btw, there are like yearly MGS updates too with remakes, substance like stuff, new games etc...

My choice for franchise?

I don't know...
 
Sonic... the gun is a nice touch, but they really should add some gore and nudity

Or, failing that, make it a crazy fast 2.5D platformer
 
I disagree with Mario as well. Mario 64 did everything right with 3D platforming. If the next Mario is like Mario 64 with a ton of brilliant platforming level layouts, then we're all set. I don't need a huge city to explore with a "funny" sidekick.


ZELDA
The series is the same thing as OOT with some awesome upgrades to keep it fresh, but it would be nice to see an evolution.

The physics focus of TWW is a great first step that really expands the series as was the ability to use an enemy's weapon, but it needs more. In fact, I think it needs to take a step back in order to take the next step forward. ALTTP had optional upgradable weapons, shields, items, and tunics. That is absolutely something Zelda could use again.

The combat already had enough depth, I think. The only thing that could be improved is enemy AI during fights.

I wouldn't mind seeing the whole progression change. Something more open ended. A Zelda title where you can explore what you like when you like. Another step back in order to take the next step forward. In the first Zelda it was all about exploration. I would like to see that once more.

I don't really see how the series can go through a revolution right now, but there are a bunch of ways to evolve it. Honestly, the OOT forula is pretty damnded near perfect. Evolution comes in the details.
 
mario. well, 3d platfomers generally. but i'm going to say mario. because mario is emblematic of platforming, and because mario is just about the only respectable franchise that still plays platforming straight. returning to a level over and over to collect things and run stupid errands is basically a bad idea. and has always been a bad idea. mario 64 overwhelmed this inherent wrongness with superlative design and sheer originality, but ead obviously can't keep that up. mario still moves really well in 3d. take those moves and build a real platform game around them.

i would strongly object to a splintercellization of mgs or a tactical bastardization of halo.
 
Red Dolphin said:
Guys don't go into too much detail as to why they need an overhaul. My head can't take it!
Perhaps overhaul is the wrong word, as I love SMS and consider Mario 64 one of the most important games of all time, but Mario needs something new, something to make it larger than gaming again, something that makes people say things like "I think it's one of the most important games of all time."
 
drohne said:
i would strongly object to a splintercellization of mgs or a tactical bastardization of halo.

Why? Metal Gear Solid does not play very well in it's current form. It needs precise controls and something a lot better for shooting. I would love to control Solid Snake with precision analog controlling from a fully 3D 3rd person view.

Something like RE4 or Splinter Cell would be nice for MGS. I'd like to see Konami adapt one of those control schemes to fit MGS.
 
no one yet knows what the new zelda will do, so you can't say it needs over hauling.

I'd like to see you guys over haul these and sell MILLIONS of copies.

Mario needs over hauling yes, to bring it to the present day, Zelda, leave alone, its the last great old skool franchise.

GTA is just the same shit updated each time, so maybe that needs a kick up the ass
 
because i really like mgs3's gameplay? scoping out an area with the first person view and then making your move using the pulled-back camera is fun. i think criticisms of mgs3's camera come from the lazy and unexamined belief that the player should see basically what the player character would see. mgs3's approach has its advantages and disadvantages, and i can't believe i'm echoing ssx, but people who want splinter cell can play splinter cell.

i'm just going to take your suggestion that mgs use re4's unbelievably limited scheme as a joke. it barely works for re4. mgs is considerably more complex.
 
olimario said:
Something like RE4 or Splinter Cell would be nice for MGS. I'd like to see Konami adapt one of those control schemes to fit MGS.

With you talking about broken setups, you aren't going to get much more broken of a setup than RE4 camera/controls for a stealth game.
 
drohne said:
because i really like mgs3's gameplay? scoping out an area with the first person view and then making your move using the pulled-back camera is fun. i think criticisms of mgs3's camera come from the lazy and unexamined belief that the player should see basically what the player character sees. mgs3's approach has its advantages and disadvantages, and i can't believe i'm echoing ssx, but people who want splinter cell can play splinter cell.

i'm just going to take your suggestion that mgs use re4's unbelievably limited scheme as a joke. it barely works for re4. mgs is considerably more complex.

I'd suggest something like Zelda where you can choose what you'd like for the camera.
A fully 3D camera and sensative analog control would do wonders for MGS.
And liking the gameplay doesn't mean the gameplay is good or isn't in need of an overhaul. MGS needs it in a bad way.

EDIT: I meant RE4 viewpoint, but then I thought of Zelda...
 
zelda's a much better candidate for overhaul than mgs. your set of reference points is really limited, isn't it? i mean if you're going to talk about a controllable camera in a demanding game situation, why mention zelda of all things? that's almost as silly as your re4 suggestion.

(not to mention that mgs games do change considerably from installment to installment, unlike, oh...every other franchise of comparable stature and vintage)
 
drohne said:
zelda's a much better candidate for overhaul than mgs. your set of reference points is really limited, isn't it? i mean if you're going to talk about a controllable camera in a demanding game situation, why mention zelda of all things? that's almost as silly as your re4 suggestion.

(not to mention that mgs games do change considerably from installment to installment, unlike, oh...every other franchise of comparable stature and vintage)


Wait... Zelda's camera is perfect. It switches wonderfully from 3rd to 1st and back, and within 3rd it is fully adjustable with an easy re-center.
It would be perfect for MGS.


And no, MGS doesn't change considerably from game to game. MGS3 had the same awkward gameplay as TTS.
 
drohne said:
the lazy and unexamined belief that the player should see basically what the player character would see

That's hardly an unrealistic expectation.
Being spotted by well-offscreen guards is one of MGS3's most irritating features.
 
Dr Zhivago said:
That's hardly an unrealistic expectation.
Being spotted by well-offscreen guards is one of MGS3's most irritating features.

But then you get spotted by guards walking on the side or behind you...

MGS's camera gives you a view of your entire surroundings within a certain range. Maybe they can let you change the level of zoom in MGS4, but otherwise the camera system works for MGS.
 
It makes sense to me :). While it's true that DMC3 features lots of new (gameplay) elements, it's also more of the same. I liked DMC3 a lot, but I'm done with it now. Kicking enemies in the air and shooting the hell out of'm gets old. It was great in the first game, and the new moves, weapons and options made me enjoy part 3, but I'm not interested in more of the same where 3 came from. I'd like a big change for the series, as drastic as with RE4.
 
I think Naughty Dog needs to pull their heads out of their asses and figure out what they did right with their actual platformers like Jak and Daxter.

I'd sure love to see 3D Sonic games stop being so mediocre overall too. Just Sonic style levels please. Maybe change the engine, fix the camera, SOMETHING.

I'd also love to see a brand new Mario platformer that's just brilliant again too. Demote Shiggy for a while and let him have a go at it. :P

Zelda's still good, gameplay wise. I enjoy the dungeons and overworld and the like. I'd just like to see some voice acting in the next game. Some very good voice acting.

Fire Emblem is also a series I'd like to see get an overhaul like that. Put in some anime/CG cutscenes + full voice acting for the entire game.
 
hkk said:
Why would it do wonders for the series? New lock on system? What OTHER type of lock on systems *are* there?

Well I'm not sure what other lock-on systems they could use, but yea I think a new battle engine would do a lot for the series. Don't get me wrong, I'm Zelda lover #4200000 and I think WW is one of the best games this gen. But I love Zelda for the exploring, dungeons, and atmosphere...not necessarily for the simple "flip back and do a jumping strike" battle system. Heck I think even just removing the dramatic pauses and flashes that we've already seen have made it into the new Zelda would be an improvement. The problem with Zelda's battle system is that because your attacks are very limited as is the way you interact with an enemy, you end up getting a very stiff unrealistic looking animation flow.

I know most would disagree with me, but personally I'd rather see Zelda getting something like Ninja Gaiden combat engine with tons of moves, depth, and challenging AI; where the fights are fast, fun, and smooth looking. Zelda is already an A+++ formula in it's dungeon exploring, it'd just be really awesome if they could eventually pair that with an A++++ battle system.
 
Zelda: Needs more grass.

Mario: Needs more grass.

Gran Turismo: Needs more grass.

Prince of Persia: Needs more grass.

Halo: Needs more grass.

Metal Gear Solid: Needs more grass.
 
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