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What Helmut Kohl Taught Bill Clinton

Occam

Member
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"Politics can be a cruel contact sport. Nobody knew that better than Helmut Kohl, the longtime German chancellor and the father of German reunification who died on Friday.

[...]

Like Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan, he towered over and defined his country's place in the world, and alongside them he defined the center-right consensus that drove Western foreign policy at the end of the Cold War.

[...] recent history has been kind to Mr. Kohl, if only by showing the contrast between the sort of international statesmanship he stood for and what passes as leadership today. He was, above all, a staunch supporter of NATO and the West, and kept his course even at times when some Western policies weren't very popular in Germany.

When Mr. Kohl became chancellor in 1982, he faced huge protests against the stationing of nuclear-capable Pershing II missiles on German soil, in response to a Soviet buildup of Warsaw Pact forces. But he had given Germany's word to its NATO allies to allow the missiles, and he didn't budge. Though it made him unpopular and put his country at risk, there was a bigger issue at hand: whether the West would stand up to the Soviet threat.

At a moment when the West is in exceptional disarray, there are some important lessons to be learned from Mr. Kohl. For one, the West is doomed when it starts giving in to Russian intimidation. A second: To keep and nourish an alliance, you sometimes have to do things that are good for all partners but don't play well domestically. And finally, trust among allies is perhaps the most precious commodity of all, which you play with to everyone's peril.

Chancellor Kohl knew that alliances are not measured by annual balance sheets; they pay off over a longer term. His stance on the Pershings earned the trust of his American counterparts, a credit he could draw on in 1989 when the peoples of Eastern Europe, including in East Germany, were in revolt against Soviet domination and homegrown dictators. Mr. Kohl dreamed of something few people in the West thought possible: German reunification, anchored squarely in the West.

Other nations in Europe were afraid of the overwhelming power a reunified Germany could muster within Europe, and did what they could to oppose reunification. But Mr. Kohl knew he could rely on the United States for support, and President George H. W. Bush duly threw his support behind the German leader. It wasn't because Mr. Bush thought he owed Mr. Kohl something; it was because Mr. Kohl had earned Washington's trust.

Chancellor Kohl understood something else, too, that today's nationalist foreign policy makers ignore: International politics is not a zero-sum game. That's why he fought hard to make sure Germany's victory at the end of the Cold War did not come at someone else's expense. In a time of Russian revanchism, it is crucial to remember how many billions of dollars Germany and Europe invested in Russia to stabilize a failing country.

It was a lesson Mr. Kohl taught other Western leaders. In 2011, Bill Clinton recalled a conversation with his aides in the early 1990s. ”So one of my young aides showed me a poll that said, ‘Mr. President, the American people are against your proposal to help Russia 74 to 20.' " But Mr. Clinton, like Mr. Kohl, knew that a stable Russia made everyone safer. ”We got hired to do the right thing here," he told the aide. ”Look at what Germany's doing; let's do that."

Nor did Chancellor Kohl push Germany's interests at his Western neighbors' expense. He did the opposite. To demonstrate the continuing German commitment to a common Europe, he agreed to give up the most cherished symbol of Germany's postwar economic success, the mark. Whatever flaws are now obvious in Europe's common currency, Mr. Kohl's intentions in supporting it were noble ones. He wanted to anchor the new Germany firmly inside the European project. Being a part of the generation that had experienced the devastation of World War II, he was passionate about creating a Europe whole, free and at peace. That's why he also helped to prepare the path for Eastern European countries to become part of the European Union and NATO.

[...]

At times like these, when petty nationalisms threaten the global liberal order and the coherence of the West, it is important to remember that the comparatively peaceful Western order didn't come about by accident. It took the effort of many brilliant and decisive statesmen and stateswomen. By that same token, the Western order can be squandered by the ineptitude of today's leaders, and by a politics that looks only to the next election to decide even the most momentous policies. It is something Mr. Kohl understood, and something we cannot forget."

CLEMENS WERGIN, New York Times

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/16/opinion/what-helmut-kohl-german-chancellor-taught.html
 

LeChuck

Banned
German unification was a mistake for the rest of Europe. It has created a monster state which is dominating its neighborhours.

Nice to see kohl and Clinton's investment in Russia paid off as well.
 

Des0lar

will learn eventually
German unification was a mistake for the rest of Europe. It has created a monster state which is dominating its neighborhours.

Nice to see kohl and Clinton's investment in Russia paid off as well.
Lol where do these alt accounts even come from?
 
German unification was a mistake for the rest of Europe. It has created a monster state which is dominating its neighborhours.

Nice to see kohl and Clinton's investment in Russia paid off as well.

Damn dude, I bet the EU was a mistake too?

Chill out
 
German unification was a mistake for the rest of Europe. It has created a monster state which is dominating its neighborhours.

Germany unifying and it subsequently dominating its neighbours in an economic sense are two separate phenomenon (Unification is not the casual factor to make Germany the industrial dominator in the EU market). Perhaps you do not know that east Germany being brought into the BRD is basically viewed as a money sink hole in west Germany - its productive capacity and wealth is still far below historical west Germany.

Your post reads like it was written in 1922.
 

Steel

Banned
German unification was a mistake for the rest of Europe. It has created a monster state which is dominating its neighborhours.

Nice to see kohl and Clinton's investment in Russia paid off as well.

What kinda kool-aid have you gotten into?
 

Lucumo

Member
Perhaps you do not know that east Germany being brought into the BRD is basically viewed as a money sink hole in west Germany - its productive capacity and wealth is still far below historical west Germany.
Which doesn't matter at all, considering they sold East Germany's companies to the West for next to nothing and "restructured" everything. At the same time, West German companies took over the distribution network which gave them quite a boost. So in the middle and long run, you have a sizable gain for the Western economy, at the expense of the Eastern one.
 

Occam

Member
I wish someone with a slightly better understanding of Germany, Europe and the world had made a first post that isn't total nonsense, thereby not derailing his thread.

Please do read the article, I think it makes a few very good points.
 
The fact that German reunification went so well is frankly mind blowing considering the scope of it. The US is still in dire straits with our reunification although the circumstances were quite different.
 

norinrad

Member
German unification was a mistake for the rest of Europe. It has created a monster state which is dominating its neighborhours.

Nice to see kohl and Clinton's investment in Russia paid off as well.

There's one on every forum it seems. Sounds like you'd love to have the wall back and the suffering of millions of people. Very nice of you.
 

maomaoIYP

Member
I wish someone with a slightly better understanding of Germany, Europe and the world had made a first post that isn't total nonsense, thereby not derailing his thread.

Please do read the article, I think it makes a few very good points.
Yeah the article was a great read. Thanks OP!
 
At a moment when the West is in exceptional disarray, there are some important lessons to be learned from Mr. Kohl. For one, the West is doomed when it starts giving in to Russian intimidation. A second: To keep and nourish an alliance, you sometimes have to do things that are good for all partners but don’t play well domestically. And finally, trust among allies is perhaps the most precious commodity of all, which you play with to everyone’s peril.


Considering this statement and the "thing" Trump has going on with the Russians or at least the apparent influence they have on him, I still don't understand why there isn't a bigger outcry about this (especially in the US).
 

Nerokis

Member
Agreed. Its best to ignore people like this. On the internet anyone can spout anything to manipulate others. From juniors on GAF to Youtube comments.. just because they take a position doesnt mean they believe it but others might.

Yep. A post like that doesn't deserve ~15 others rebuking it from slightly different angles that occasionally provide new insight, especially when it almost certainly won't be followed up on in any substantial way.

I don't know that such posts have conscious ulterior motives behind them, but they're certainly primed to affect the meta narrative of a thread. They're part of a forum game that is almost never productive, and doubling down on them with a massive pileup only advances that game.
 

KDR_11k

Member
Considering this statement and the "thing" Trump has going on with the Russians or at least the apparent influence they have on him, I still don't understand why there isn't a bigger outcry about this (especially in the US).

Half the US is already crying out loud, the other half is listening only to news stations that tell them there's nothing to those claims.
 

Culex

Banned
I still remember reading my textbook in grade school in the early 90's about the potential for a European Union being pushed by Germany. Was really negative and poo-poo'd it ever happening.
 
neoGAF is one of the biggest forums on the net. It's not too suprising groups use it for marketing and propaganda.

Sometimes they are too apparent and easy pickings for the mods.

No. Nobody would waste their time trying to influence opinions on a video game message board, which can't go a single day without someone making a thread about fucking up normal human interactions.

This is a discussion board, someone's going to have different ideas. Germany has been a major winner in the EU, unlike the article, Germany never did really give up the mark. The Euro is the mark, everyone had to peg to the mark in the run up to its issuance. Germany has used this monetary policy to its advantage running up massive trade surpluses while leaving other Eurozone members in major economic distress. FFS even Obama took that position, and the Germans never budged.
 

Irminsul

Member
This is a discussion board, someone's going to have different ideas. Germany has been a major winner in the EU, unlike the article, Germany never did really give up the mark. The Euro is the mark, everyone had to peg to the mark in the run up to its issuance. Germany has used this monetary policy to its advantage running up massive trade surpluses while leaving other Eurozone members in major economic distress. FFS even Obama took that position, and the Germans never budged.
Yes, because the French wanted it that way. The Germans didn't, they just agreed to it to get the French government to agree to reunification.
 
No. Nobody would waste their time trying to influence opinions on a video game message board, which can't go a single day without someone making a thread about fucking up normal human interactions.

This is a discussion board, someone's going to have different ideas. Germany has been a major winner in the EU, unlike the article, Germany never did really give up the mark. The Euro is the mark, everyone had to peg to the mark in the run up to its issuance. Germany has used this monetary policy to its advantage running up massive trade surpluses while leaving other Eurozone members in major economic distress. FFS even Obama took that position, and the Germans never budged.

Funny, the Mark was the opposite of the Euro. Run as a strong and stable currency.
 
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