momolicious
Member
And for those of you who have played games on LCD HDTVs, Is the Ghosting that noticable compared to regular TVs?
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What is the difference and which is beter for games? DLP,LCD,Projection?
- Thread starter momolicious
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The amount of ghosting is going to depend on the quality of LCD that you're dealing with. I do the majority of my gaming on an HDTV CRT and I couldn't be happier with the image quality. I've also played on a Plasma, which was really nice but not as sharp, and a DLP. The DLP looked insanely awesome, but I didn't get to try a very good variety of games.
I'm speaking from word of mouth info here, but the general consensus that I've gathered, when comparing similar quality would be DLP >> CRT > Plasma > LCD
Opinions vary greatly on the subject though, so don't take my analysis as any sort of FACT, but rather opinion based on impressions of others and myself.
I'm speaking from word of mouth info here, but the general consensus that I've gathered, when comparing similar quality would be DLP >> CRT > Plasma > LCD
Opinions vary greatly on the subject though, so don't take my analysis as any sort of FACT, but rather opinion based on impressions of others and myself.
Sabaku Ika
Member
Are good VGA monitors comparable to CRT HDTVs for games?
well duh.. that's as easy as figuring out the best car to buy. 
the truth is it works out like this:
CRT is the overall best looking but you have to deal with geometry and convergence not to mention heft and bulk of the set.
DLP is close to the best looking, lighter and less bulky than CRT, no geometry, convergence, or overscan, but is much more expensive and no matter how you want to look at it similar quality CRT and DLP sets will always see a properly calibrated CRT set looking better than a properly calibrated DLP set.
LCD definitely typically looks the worst of all of them, but is usually much cheaper than DLP, much less bulkier and heavier than CRT, and again you don't have convergence or geometry.
the decision is actually yours. my next set will likely be a 3-chip DLP. Give up gorgeous blacks and variable scanning but never never NEVER have to deal with geometry and convergence again.
the truth is it works out like this:
CRT is the overall best looking but you have to deal with geometry and convergence not to mention heft and bulk of the set.
DLP is close to the best looking, lighter and less bulky than CRT, no geometry, convergence, or overscan, but is much more expensive and no matter how you want to look at it similar quality CRT and DLP sets will always see a properly calibrated CRT set looking better than a properly calibrated DLP set.
LCD definitely typically looks the worst of all of them, but is usually much cheaper than DLP, much less bulkier and heavier than CRT, and again you don't have convergence or geometry.
the decision is actually yours. my next set will likely be a 3-chip DLP. Give up gorgeous blacks and variable scanning but never never NEVER have to deal with geometry and convergence again.
Momo-
Here is my breakdown.
DLP -
Pos - Light, relatively thin, bright picture, no burn in, ususally a PC connection
Neg - some see rainbow affect, black is not true black, 1 native resolution
LCD -
Pos - Light, thin, bright picture, no burn in, PC connectivity
Neg - black is not true black, 1 native resolution, some have problems with fast moving scenes
CRT Tube -
Pos - great picture all around, no native resolution
Neg - very heavy and take up a lot more space than the others types of TV, connecting a PC can be a pain
Here is my breakdown.
DLP -
Pos - Light, relatively thin, bright picture, no burn in, ususally a PC connection
Neg - some see rainbow affect, black is not true black, 1 native resolution
LCD -
Pos - Light, thin, bright picture, no burn in, PC connectivity
Neg - black is not true black, 1 native resolution, some have problems with fast moving scenes
CRT Tube -
Pos - great picture all around, no native resolution
Neg - very heavy and take up a lot more space than the others types of TV, connecting a PC can be a pain
close.. though CRTs (TVs that is) definitely have native resolutions. current TVs have either 540 or 480 lines of resolution that can be scanned. supposedly some future ones will be capable of 720 scan lines (thus native 720p). But TVs are DEFINITELY native. even worse with TVs (with computers at least) is that your sync rates have to match also..
otherwise you are right, and right in that CRT gives you MORE native resolutions.
otherwise you are right, and right in that CRT gives you MORE native resolutions.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
rod said:
Never compare ideal HD set up at home with the shitty multi feed sets up at the stores.
I prefer DLPs (and for those wondering, no, I don't own one so I don't have some need to justify my purchase) over most LCD projections because of screendoor effect, slower update, and less vibrant color, but some of the best LCD projections are catching up.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I got a 50" Samsung DLP and I love it.
It's sleek, and flat and big and fun.
And games look reaaally good on them. Better than standard TV.
Cept I'm not used to playing on such a big, clear TV. I find myself sucking at games I used to be good at, like Double Dash. I actually had to relearn how to play on a TV like that, haha.
It's sleek, and flat and big and fun.
And games look reaaally good on them. Better than standard TV.
Cept I'm not used to playing on such a big, clear TV. I find myself sucking at games I used to be good at, like Double Dash. I actually had to relearn how to play on a TV like that, haha.
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
Sho Nuff said:With DLPs, the rainbow effect DRIVES ME CRAZY, even on high-speed ones that are supposed to negate the effect
You need to learn to wobulate your pupils!
John Harker said:
A warning to Sammy DLP users using component connections: You may have gotten too use to DNIe post enhencements. DNIe makes X360 games look REALLY crisp through component, but really kills your gray rendering, basically making the whole gray-scale into blacks artificially. I prefer to give up the ultimate black level and have the X360 connected to Sammy DLPs through VGA connection, which will let you see much more subtlties in the grays (VGA also circumvents DNIe altogether).
The Rainbow Effect can be an absolutely deal killer when it comes to DLP sets. So make sure you look at the TV first to make sure you're unaffected by it. If so, then DLP sets are great. At this point there's no significant difference when it comes to DLP, LCD, LCD Projection etc in terms of overall quality. You have to look at what each one offers, and see what suits you.
Here's a writeup on the differences
Here's a writeup on the differences
Jeff-DSA said:
:lol :lol :lol
no.
CRT is always best for pure picture. As for DLP, be wary of lag. Make sure you bring in a console and hook it up to the TV. A lot of DLP TVs process their pictures slower than other TVs resulting in noticeable lags which can make gaming virtually impossible on them.
I am starting to dislike CRTs.. they normally have a low highest resolution, pretty crapppy geometry and other problems. LCDs and other technioques have much sharper, and are just more pleasing to the eye. Cant wait when LCDs and such have CRT quality black level and no ghosting.
blazinglazers
Member
My friend dropped over 4 grand on a hdtv 7.1 setup, and while it's truly killer, after watching 15 minutes of Batman Begins the rainbow effect was too much for me. Personally I'll be going with plasma or lcd in the near future.
HP DLP... No rainbow, no screen door thanks to wobulation!
And full 1080p at 60hz over HDMI (we'll see if PS3 really delivers).
I just ordered the 65" yesterday.
http://h10058.www1.hp.com/digital/entertainment/us/en/theater/tvs/mdtv_guide.html
DLP FTW (this is my 2nd DLP set).
For the person above who said that gaming on DLP can introduce lag, my experience has been nothing short of perfection on my 56" Samsung DLP (HLN, so 2nd generation DLP for them... they're on like their 4th now).
And full 1080p at 60hz over HDMI (we'll see if PS3 really delivers).
I just ordered the 65" yesterday.
http://h10058.www1.hp.com/digital/entertainment/us/en/theater/tvs/mdtv_guide.html
DLP FTW (this is my 2nd DLP set).
For the person above who said that gaming on DLP can introduce lag, my experience has been nothing short of perfection on my 56" Samsung DLP (HLN, so 2nd generation DLP for them... they're on like their 4th now).
Shogmaster
Sloppy seconds
svenuce said:
I was just joking. I don't think wobulation does anything for preventing rainbow effect for those sensitive folks. It's just a clever means to get 1920 horizontal res from only 1280 physical "mirrors".
Ristamar said:
That problem is not inherent to the DLP technology. If anything, DLP guarentees that you get 60hz update without resorting to downgrading color output like LCDs.
What you're refering to was a problem that rose in older Sammy DLP sets when line doubling SD (480i) sources due to the pokey deinterlacer Sammy was using at the time. This probem is gone from newer Sammy DLPs.
DaCocoBrova
Finally bought a new PSP, but then pushed the demon onto someone else. Jesus.
The most important thing to remember is that you can't get a CRT larger than ~34".
sportzhead
Member
From my recent TV shopping bonanza, I would say go for a RPTV.
I purchased 3 TV in the span of 2 weeks. First was a 37" LCD TV, picture was pretty good, but the thing blurred like a monster when there were fast moving objects on the screen. I could not play the 360 for more than 30 minutes with my head going crazy. So then I purchased another LCD TV that was supposed to not have this problem, but this time the TV had the same problem and the picture quality was terrible. Then I did a whole lot of research and bought a Sony 42" 3LCD RPTV. The picture is truly amazing; playing NB2k6 on the 360 is scary. You dont have to worry about the rainbow problem, burn in, and the black levels are pretty good.
I purchased 3 TV in the span of 2 weeks. First was a 37" LCD TV, picture was pretty good, but the thing blurred like a monster when there were fast moving objects on the screen. I could not play the 360 for more than 30 minutes with my head going crazy. So then I purchased another LCD TV that was supposed to not have this problem, but this time the TV had the same problem and the picture quality was terrible. Then I did a whole lot of research and bought a Sony 42" 3LCD RPTV. The picture is truly amazing; playing NB2k6 on the 360 is scary. You dont have to worry about the rainbow problem, burn in, and the black levels are pretty good.
Shogmaster said:You need to learn to wobulate your pupils!
A warning to Sammy DLP users using component connections: You may have gotten too use to DNIe post enhencements. DNIe makes X360 games look REALLY crisp through component, but really kills your gray rendering, basically making the whole gray-scale into blacks artificially. I prefer to give up the ultimate black level and have the X360 connected to Sammy DLPs through VGA connection, which will let you see much more subtlties in the grays (VGA also circumvents DNIe altogether).
Thanks Shog. The 42" is on my shopping list right now and I will pick up the 360 VGA cable when I pick it up. Good advice. I hate artificial contrast enhancement...it ruins fine detail and messes with the chroma quality of your picture.....
momolicious
Member
CRTs are too small, something around 49-50 inch is somethin im lookin for
http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INT...2"&ProductSKU=KD30XS955&TabName=feature&var2=
I'm looking into buying my first HDTV, and it'll likely be a CRT. I live alone, in a studio, and am not looking to change my entertainment center, hence I'm kind of limited in regards to maximum size.
Would THAT Sony CRT HDTV allow me to play X360 and PS3 games optimally? (And for that matter, what IS the optimal way of playing X360 and PS3 games? 720p or 1080i? Will this TV handle those?)
Thanks in advance. I'm a total noob in regards to HDTVs and didn't want to start yet another HDTV thread.
I'm looking into buying my first HDTV, and it'll likely be a CRT. I live alone, in a studio, and am not looking to change my entertainment center, hence I'm kind of limited in regards to maximum size.
Would THAT Sony CRT HDTV allow me to play X360 and PS3 games optimally? (And for that matter, what IS the optimal way of playing X360 and PS3 games? 720p or 1080i? Will this TV handle those?)
Thanks in advance. I'm a total noob in regards to HDTVs and didn't want to start yet another HDTV thread.
DLP's are the future, but there are LCD's that top DLP's like this one:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=&topnav=&prodid=11042448&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=13
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?whse=&topnav=&prodid=11042448&ec=BC-EC877-CatHome&pos=13
I have a Samsung LNR328W LCD HDTV. Its the kind MS and Samsung use in the xbox 360 kiosks. I have noticed no ghosting ever, no lag what so ever, even though it only has a 12 ms refresh rate compared to the new versions 8.
I really think the people who say LCD's ghost are either looking at bad TV's or have never played a game on a LCD.
If you go with a LCD, make sure you get one with a high contrast ratio. When I was shopping around I noticed alot of viewsonic and such brands with good size to price ratio but they only have a 800:1 contrast as compared to the Samsung 3000:1 so the difference is very noticable. Im pretty sure this makes blacks look better as compared to some other cheaper brands.
I really think the people who say LCD's ghost are either looking at bad TV's or have never played a game on a LCD.
If you go with a LCD, make sure you get one with a high contrast ratio. When I was shopping around I noticed alot of viewsonic and such brands with good size to price ratio but they only have a 800:1 contrast as compared to the Samsung 3000:1 so the difference is very noticable. Im pretty sure this makes blacks look better as compared to some other cheaper brands.
Deg said:
go look at those specs again
Display:
* Screen Size: 37" TFT LCD
* Aspect Ratio: 16:9
* Resolution: 1920 x 1080
* Brightness: 600cd/m²
* Contrast Ratio: 1000:1
* Response Time: 8ms
* Viewing Angle: 170° H/170H° V
Audio:
* Removable speakers: 10w x 10w
* Surround sound
Signals:
* Built in NTSC & ATSC tuners
* HDTV 1080p, 1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i (ATSC + NTSC)
Inputs:
* HDMI/ DVI Support HDCP
* HD Component (Y, Pb, Pr): x 1
* S-Video 4-pin DIN: x 2
* Composite RCA A/V: x 2
* RGB 15-pin D-Sub: x 1
Outputs:
* Audio Out (RCA Jack)
* Sub-Woofer output
.........thought so
1080p native no ghosting no problems whatsoever with every input you could want and still not having to worry with the plasma 2 year isssue.
Mejilan said:
Rubbish. Staying away from Plasma is pretty ignorant given that they are only second to CRT in quality or even arguably better. The biggest flaw actually is cost. Ghosting doesnt exist. All angle viewing. Black levels are second only to CRT. Contrast/brightness is the best outside of CRT. Look like LCD but heavy like CRT. Since they are expensive they tend to have best of breed video processing and scalers. It has DLP and LCD for breakfast if you are talking picture quality.
What a load of crap. By your logic all other tv standard are going out because prices have dropped. Idiot. Plasma lasts you more than long enough. LG were doing 20/15 year guarantees on their plasma from earlier this year. Also burn ins arent an issue anymore.
It says 8 ms and you say no ghosting? :lol Besides the contrast and brightness are very very weak for plasma.
What about burn-in? I've heard that pausing games on Plasmas can be dangerous, and games with fixed, constant elements (such as static GUIs) are downright destructive.
I'm specifically looking for a tv to function primarily as a gaming monitor. TV and movie viewing is quite incidental.
I'm specifically looking for a tv to function primarily as a gaming monitor. TV and movie viewing is quite incidental.
Mejilan said:
read about this at www.avsforum.com - you're going to get much better info there than from the fanboys over here (although there are serious fanboys over there too).
DJ Sl4m said:
Shows how much research you've done. All you probably did was read a webpage written in 1998 or something. :lol Read up again mate. LCD has laso improved greatly over the past years.
Mejilan said:
No. Wont happen if you are semi sensible. It used to but not anymore. Takes a very long time to get burn in like CRT. You need to retain a static image for ages. Like over 24 hours minimum with newer models. This is why you dont hear about in tv forums anymore.
Here is a q&a by Panasonic.
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/plasma_central/questions.asp
aLso check out www.avsforum.com (a must before buying although there are fanboys there too) Many people here on GAF are posting false info. LCD and plasma are nothing alike except that they are thin and flat. Plasma also weigh a ton.
It's one of the top 3 sets most saught after on the audio/video phile forums.
Seriously, there's not many sets with the quality of this one.
When I first ordered it from costco it was back ordered for months and every other site I tried to get it from, it took 3 months for it to finally become available from the backorders everywhere.
I recomended it a few months ago, of course the 1 HDTV guy wasn't on the forum much at the time and nobody noticed. lol, hey I gave the info and tried to inform everyone how bad ass it was then.
All I can say s if you can find an HDTV with 1080p natively with those specs for refesh brightness, input etc etc go for it, just keep away from the plasma, as you'll learn they go bad after a few years and who wants to rebuy an HDTV evrety 2-3 years ?
esp when you can get a better picture with a 1080p HDTV for the same price and still be up to date with tech in 5 years.
It's a no brainer, I have a 19" LCD monitor from the same company Sceptre from newegg, and love it as well.
Seriously, there's not many sets with the quality of this one.
When I first ordered it from costco it was back ordered for months and every other site I tried to get it from, it took 3 months for it to finally become available from the backorders everywhere.
I recomended it a few months ago, of course the 1 HDTV guy wasn't on the forum much at the time and nobody noticed. lol, hey I gave the info and tried to inform everyone how bad ass it was then.
All I can say s if you can find an HDTV with 1080p natively with those specs for refesh brightness, input etc etc go for it, just keep away from the plasma, as you'll learn they go bad after a few years and who wants to rebuy an HDTV evrety 2-3 years ?
esp when you can get a better picture with a 1080p HDTV for the same price and still be up to date with tech in 5 years.
It's a no brainer, I have a 19" LCD monitor from the same company Sceptre from newegg, and love it as well.