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[Hitokage]

...or at least what bone did the bible's authors have to pick for portraying them as such braindead pansies. Given a setting in which a wrathful God is not only willing and able to cause wanton destruction, but regularly does so in spectacular ways, one would think it would be easy to believe in the guy summoning fireballs and lightning. However, it seems the hebrews of the bible couldn't care less. Moses and Friends had to fight tooth and nail just to get their attention, and occasionally get God to show his hand yet again to no avail. So what gives?

I already have somewhat of an opinion on the matter, but I wanted to get an honest answer from other people, paticularly those more read up on the respective literature/apologism(provided it isn't the lame "miracles still take faith" line I've already heard, which really doesn't apply when the stone/clay tower you just built is exploding in flames)... and please no kneejerk replies or GAF's God will smite you.

 

[Papi]

Aint' nothing wrong with da Heebs, mang. Y'all better recognize and squash that beef.

 

[GaimeGuy]

...or at least what bone did the bible's authors have to pick for portraying them as such braindead pansies. Given a setting in which a wrathful God is not only willing and able to cause wanton destruction, but regularly does so in spectacular ways, one would think it would be easy to believe in the guy summoning fireballs and lightning. However, it seems the hebrews of the bible couldn't care less. Moses and Friends had to fight tooth and nail just to get their attention, and occasionally get God to show his hand yet again to no avail. So what gives?

I already have somewhat of an opinion on the matter, but I wanted to get an honest answer from other people, paticularly those more read up on the respective literature/apologism(provided it isn't the lame "miracles still take faith" line I've already heard, which really doesn't apply when the stone/clay tower you just built is exploding in flames)... and please no kneejerk replies or GAF's God will smite you.

What the fuck are you talking about?

 

[drohne]

it's been a while since i read the ot (no, the other ot), but yahweh's first commandment is a reminder that he is the hebrews' only god, and other gods (or at least the worship of other gods) are always on the periphery. perhaps we can assume that gods in those days were abundant and frivolous with miracles, and that the ancient hebrews were as such harder to impress.

actually, the thing that struck me about exodus was that moses didn't do the big speeches: he delegated them to aaron. this ran counter to my expectations. my moses was charlton heston. really they should have cast some nondescript character actor as moses. aaron should've been charlton heston.

 

[The Shadow]

Are you talking about the 10 Commandments movie? That does make them look bad.

Moses leads them out of Egypt, spreads the Dead Sea, and leaves for just a few hours to get the law from god and they raise all kind of hell. It's like they're fickle as fuck.

 

[Monk]

...or at least what bone did the bible's authors have to pick for portraying them as such braindead pansies

What do you mean?

 

[Hitokage]

Got home from work(UGH) recently and I was in a ranting mood, and yeah seeing my parents watching 10 Commandments provoked it, but I'm not really talking about the movie itself, but the whole "God gives a shit and few care" picture that's throughout the bible.

 

[Archaix]

What do you mean?

I think he just might be hinting that the bible is a work of fiction, written by people with grudges and personal agendas.

 

[Monk]

but the whole "God gives a shit and few care" picture that's throughout the bible.

How is that any different from now?


You are all HEATHENS!





I mean really, you need to give examples what you are really on about.

 

[Hitokage]

Name the last city that God has destroyed... or hell, the last miracle aside from seeing the virgin mary in a grilled cheese sandwich.

God got bitter and indifferent it seems, just like a forum mod.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Are you talking about the 10 Commandments movie? That does make them look bad.

Moses leads them out of Egypt, spreads the Dead Sea, and leaves for just a few hours to get the law from god and they raise all kind of hell. It's like they're fickle as fuck.

A few hours? It was over 40 days that moses was gone.

 

[drohne]

perhaps your frustration with the ancient hebrews is similar to an apocalyptic televangelist's frustrations with us. we persistently fail to understand AIDS, 9/11, natural disasters, etc. as divine communications. of course biblical miracles were less explicable as phenomena. but to prescientific cultures, acts of god must have seemed roughly as explicable or inexplicable as everything else.

 

[Hitokage]

A few hours? It was over 40 days that moses was gone.

So people forgot the whole red sea thing in 2-3 months? You couldn't get people to stop talking about 9/11 for years.

 

[The Shadow]

A few hours? It was over 40 days that moses was gone.

Yeah, that changes everything.

 

[GaimeGuy]

So people forgot the whole red sea thing in 2-3 months? You couldn't get people to stop talking about 9/11 for years.

Who said they forgot?

 

[Hitokage]

perhaps your frustration with the ancient hebrews is similar to an apocalyptic televangelist's frustrations with us. we persistently fail to understand AIDS, 9/11, natural disasters, etc. as divine communications. of course biblical miracles were less explicable as phenomena. but to prescientific cultures, acts of god must have seemed roughly as explicable or inexplicable as everything else.

The god of the bible was rarely so consistently mundane and subtle.

 

[Duck of Death]

actually, the thing that struck me about exodus was that moses didn't do the big speeches: he delegated them to aaron. this ran counter to my expectations. my moses was charlton heston. really they should have cast some nondescript character actor as moses. aaron should've been charlton heston.

Yeah, this shocked me as well. Moses being inarticulate is something one wouldn't consider; just like Lincoln actually have a high-pitched voice instead of the intimidating, deep Gregory Peck-growl I envisoned as a patriotic youth.

 

[Nerevar]

it's been a while since i read the ot (no, the other ot), but yahweh's first commandment is a reminder that he is the hebrews' only god, and other gods (or at least the worship of other gods) are always on the periphery. perhaps we can assume that gods in those days were abundant and frivolous with miracles, and that the ancient hebrews were as such harder to impress.

actually, the thing that struck me about exodus was that moses didn't do the big speeches: he delegated them to aaron. this ran counter to my expectations. my moses was charlton heston. really they should have cast some nondescript character actor as moses. aaron should've been charlton heston.

Most archaelogical evidence suggests most Hebrews were polytheistic, and believed in a dominant male God (Yahweh) and his female consort, a fertility goddess. The Dueteronimists (sp?) who wrote most of the old testament had an agenda - mainly to record a history where the priests controlled most of the power. From that perspective, though, it would seem that the Bible is a work of fiction with some very selective non-fiction thrown in the mix. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Monk]

Name the last city that God has destroyed...

Did you miss the whole tsunami thing?

the last miracle aside from seeing the virgin mary in a grilled cheese sandwich.

http://www.uforanks.com/Prayerbook/ The_Resurrection.htm


^
|

That seems to be genuine, even though I think Bonke is a charlatan.

 

[Hitokage]

Monk: I'm more talking about OT style challenge-all-comers miracles in which God took clear credit and showed off, not NT style sorry-you-gotta-believe-already-first miracles.

Most archaelogical evidence suggests most Hebrews were polytheistic, and believed in a dominant male God (Yahweh) and his female consort, a fertility goddess. The Dueteronimists (sp?) who wrote most of the old testament had an agenda - mainly to record a history where the priests controlled most of the power.

Ahhh... that makes sense in a way.

 

[Nerevar]

Ahhh... that makes sense in a way.

Yeah. The belief in a monolithic "Hebrew" people living in the region of modern-day Israel is a hard case to present. There certainly was a time where they were controlled by one king, but not for long. One of the more intriguing things in the Da Vinci code - despite being a work of fiction - is his talk about ritualistic sexual rites. There is evidence that this might have taken place in sites throughout Israel. The Hebrews mostly didn't become truly monotheistic until after the kingdom was broken up by the Babylonians and the Hebrew people scattered from the land.

 

[EviLore]

Ooh ooh, fun time.

Exodus
15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name

20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.


Numbers
31:7 And they warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males.

31:15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

31:17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

31:18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

 

[Duck of Death]

It is time for the iconic moses to offer his grace to this forum.

"Ah, the Gaming Age Forums. I shall dwell here."

 

[Particle Physicist]

actually, the thing that struck me about exodus was that moses didn't do the big speeches: he delegated them to aaron.

moses had a speech impediment.

 

[Mejilan]

Yeah. So. It wasn't really 3 - 4 hours. :lol

Seriously.

It's impossible for us to put ourselves in their shoes. But let's try.

You are a people who have been enslaved and subjugated for generations. Your children occasionally slaughtered, your men broken by labor, etc. A man comes, performs miracles, and saves your ass. He takes you through various trials from the land of slavery to a land of promise. On the way, he disappears for almost a month and a half.

So you wait, expecting it to take maybe a few hours. Maybe a few days. At what point is it ok to start expecting the worst? In the meantime, you've got the old social leaders (pre-Moses) trying to reassert their authority. How? By discrediting the prophet and his teachings. Hell, you're already free. Time to party, right?

These people were tired, bitter, sore, and ignorant. Their prophet vanished, and the old leaders told them to relax, have fun, party. It's hard to imagine what you'd do in that situation.