Support NeoGAF

[daTRUballin]

Spider-Man 3 was actually the first one of the original trilogy that I watched, so maybe I'm a bit biased. But I thought it was a fairly good movie. I'll admit that some parts of it were bad and needless.

Spoiler

I think Harry's death was unnecessary and shouldn't have happened, and the parts where Peter gets taken over by the alien symbiote and walks around acting like a douche were pretty dumb.

But aside from those, I think the rest of the movie was fine. I especially liked the

Spoiler

story reveal about Sandman being responsible for Ben Parker's death. The ending was good and I think it was a great way to end the trilogy (even if they shouldn't have killed off Harry).

Spider-Man 1 was of course WAY better, but I think 3 gets a bit too much hate. It's decent. I think Spider-Man 2 was the one I liked the least. Doc Ock was a cool villain, but aside from that, ehhh. It wasn't that great. I think 3 was just more entertaining than 2, but that's just me. I haven't watched any of the post-Tobey Maguire movies, so I can't judge those.

So can anybody tell me why Spider-Man 3 is the most hated of the original trilogy? I personally liked it. /shrug

 

[BocoDragon]

Putting the "darkness" of the black costume in the adorkable Peter Parker character from 1 and 2 was such a tonal mismatch that it came across as "emo" (to use the parlance of the times) rather than "evil". They turned the main character into a joke.

1 and 2 were considered some of the best popcorn movies of their era, and Spiderman 3 was such a train wreck that it caused people to theorize that you could see Raimi's contempt for the studio on screen (they forced him to put Venom in the movie).

Topher Grace as a kind of "evil Tobey Maguire" is kind of inspired casting in a cosmic sense, but it's embarrassing to watch.

 

[btrboyev]

It's the weakest of the 3, but it was still entertaining. I though emo Peter scenes were brilliant.

 

[Redd]

Anything involving Venom and symbiote was terrible in Spider-Man 3 for me. Goes to show how you shouldn't force something in when the director didn't want it.

 

[phanphare]

everything?

we already knew tobey and dunst were dreadful from the previous two movies, franco hammed it up to hilariously bad levels (though in retrospect his cheesiness provided the only entertainment in the whole movie), topher grace was eddie brock/venom which was awful, they retroactively added sandman to uncle ben's death because lol why not, emo peter was stupid, etc. etc. etc.

like seriously, is there a single good thing about that movie that isn't something entirely visual?

 

[IdreamofHIME]

They crammed 2 movies into one, retconed the 1st movie, had a crazy change of tone half way through and there's too many pointless characters eat up precious screen time.

 

[Sojgat]

It's the most entertaining of the three Raimi movies.

Nu Goblin fight is better than the train fight in 2. It also features some of wasteman Tobey's best screaming.

 

[BocoDragon]

we already knew tobey and dunst were dreadful from the previous two movies

Is this post-Homecoming revisionism? Their romance was adorable and loved in its era. They won best kiss at the MTV movie awards, and that makes it a scientific fact!

1 and 2 are wonderful. 3 failed them.

 

[Anung]

Tonal changes, bloated, uneven, too many characters and misused villains.

There is some good stuff in there, like the birth of sandman is amazing, but it's brought down by the stuff listed above.

 

[daTRUballin]

Venom was forced into the movie? Huh, didn't know about that.....

 

[phanphare]

Is this post-Homecoming revisionism? Their romance was adorable and loved in its era. They won best kiss at the MTV movie awards and that makes it a scientific fact!

1 and 2 are wonderful. 3 failed them.

nah but bless the mahvel gods for homecoming, we finally got a proper spider man film

 

[Nerdkiller]

Putting the "darkness" of the black costume in the adorkable Peter Parker character from 1 and 2 was such a tonal mismatch that it came across as "emo" (to use the parlance of the times) rather than "evil". They turned the main character into a joke.

1 and 2 were considered some of the best popcorn movies of their era, and Spiderman 3 was such a train wreck that it caused people to theorize that you could see Raimi's contempt for the studio on screen (they forced him to put Venom in the movie).

Topher Grace as a kind of "evil Tobey Maguire" is kind of inspired casting in a cosmic sense, but it's embarrassing to watch.

THAT WAS THE POINT! Raimi never liked the idea of Venom in the first place, so it was for the best in his mind that the symbiote should instead turn Peter into some nerd's idea of what being a cool guy actually is. And it's friggin' hilarious!

 

[Azriell]

I haven't rewatched it since I watched it in the theater, but I thoroughly enjoyed it. I think people complained most about Venom's fate (which turned out not to matter, because of the reboot), and Emo Peter. I thought Emo Peter was fucking hilarious, but I don't take my super hero movies very seriously.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Venom was forced into the movie? Huh, didn't know about that.....

Raimi hated Venom. He's an old school Spider-Man fan, hence his love for the older villains. Hence the idea of a black suit making Spider-Man an edgy broody jerk sounded like the dumbest shit to him. And hence the idea that some evil black suit doesn't suddenly turn a fucking dork into a cool guy.

Frankly, arrogant dipshit Peter is the best part of the movie.


Anyway, I watched the new Editor's Cut that came out. Essentially Spider-Man 3.1. It's better. Not drastically so, but they atleast cut that awful scene with that butler at the end. I think the movie had a lot more going for it than people generally seemed to give it credit for.

 

[Redd]

The Sandman transformation was legit though. That's about it.

 

[BocoDragon]

THAT WAS THE POINT! Raimi never liked the idea of Venom in the first place, so it was for the best in his mind that the symbiote should instead turn Peter into some nerd's idea of what being a cool guy actually is. And it's friggin' hilarious!

I think it's funny in a "Raimi trolls the studio" kind of way. But it really undermined a character I had enjoyed and taken seriously until then.

nah but bless the mahvel gods for homecoming, we finally got a proper spider man film

I'm not on that train at all. Homecoming was my least favourite on screen adaptation of Spiderman (and I didn't love ASM's either). But I'll let you enjoy it.

 

[WillyFive]

It was a pretty good movie, except for that one scene where all the villains showed up in an alleyway together 'to join forces' to kill Spiderman in the most out-of-character and forced way possible.

 

[Dark Ninja]

It followed Spider-Man 2...

 

[theCalamity]

Spider-Man 3 has only one great scene in it and that is the Sandman's birth. Everything else is trash.

 

[GKnight]

He never even said "we are Venom"

 

[BocoDragon]

The Sandman transformation was legit though. That's about it.

Spider-Man 3 has only one great scene in it and that is the Sandman's birth. Everything else is trash.

You can tell this is what was in Raimi's head as a Spiderman fan for decades, and it's what he would have focused his Spiderman 3 on, had he full creative control.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Nearly every character moment or reveal is either lazy or manipulative, or both. Can't find a good reason for Bad Spidey to hate Sandman? Let's retroactively insert him into Uncle Ben's death. Can't find a way for Peter to make amends with Harry on his own? Have the Butler reveal everything. It's just jam-packed with awfulness.

It isn't even just a lean bad movie where I can kinda tune out a little and be out the theater in under 2 hours. This movie has a ton of characters and subplots so you have to stay engaged with the awfulness.

Oh, the meteor just happens to fall next to MJ and Peter. You're not gonna explain that at all? Just a big coincidence? Can't have it maybe be studied at the college and Peter gets it that way? No? Ok.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

I waited 10 years for technology to get good enough to do Venom on screen and he had maybe 5 minutes of screentime in the costume and most of those he was monologing with Topher Grace's face.

 

[BocoDragon]

Oh, the meteor just happens to fall next to MJ and Peter. You're not gonna explain that at all? Just a big coincidence? Can't have it maybe be studied at the college and Peter gets it that way? No? Ok.

I was talking about that with a friend last night. A deus ex machina introduction of a plot point.

I can almost hear Raimi saying "the studio wants to drop Venom into this movie for no reason? Fine, that's what we'll literally do."

 

[Kevinroc]

There were a lot of behind the scenes arguments that really dragged the movie as a whole down. Raimi lost some of those arguments.

Some of the original ideas for the movie sounded pretty interesting and even made it into the trailers. For example, the big climactic battle? MJ wasn't supposed to have been kidnapped. Instead of the butler, she was supposed to convince Harry to let go of his grudge against Peter and help him. The line "We've all done terrible things to each other, but we have to learn to forgive each other or else everything we ever were will have meant nothing" from the trailer was from this what could have been scene.

 

[phanphare]

I'm not on that train at all. Homecoming was my least favourite on screen adaptation of Spiderman (and I didn't love ASM's either). But I'll let you enjoy it.

as a fan of the comics homecoming was the movie that I had been waiting for ever since the first x men kicked off the comic book movie renaissance. it's the best depiction of spider man on the big screen by a wide margin.

but I'll let you enjoy those other movies ;p

 

[bulletbill10]

It's a little bloated, but still great in my opinion. I'd cut a good chunk of the sandman stuff. But he did serve well as a disposable villain to show that Peter was "evil" by trying to kill him, and that had a reasonable excuse for not actually dying.

 

[Syphon Filter]

It's good but they added to much.

 

[Anung]

Oh, the meteor just happens to fall next to MJ and Peter. You're not gonna explain that at all? Just a big coincidence? Can't have it maybe be studied at the college and Peter gets it that way? No? Ok.

It's triple stupid because a) they introduce Jonah's astronaut son in the second one and b) Curt Conners is a character so they could explain it that way. They were too lazy to give a fuck to explain it.

 

[Nerdkiller]

I was talking about that with a friend last night. A deus ex machina introduction of a plot point.

I can almost hear Raimi saying "the studio wants to drop Venom into this movie for no reason? Fine, that's what we'll literally do."

There were a lot of behind the scenes arguments that really dragged the movie as a whole down. Raimi lost some of those arguments.

Some of the original ideas for the movie sounded pretty interesting and even made it into the trailers. For example, the big climactic battle? MJ wasn't supposed to have been kidnapped. Instead of the butler, she was supposed to convince Harry to let go of his grudge against Peter and help him. The line "We've all done terrible things to each other, but we have to learn to forgive each other or else everything we ever were will have meant nothing" from the trailer was from this what could have been scene.

There's actually an upcoming re-edit of the film that's supposedly excising that scene altogether with one of Harry breaking down upon realising how close he, Pete and MJ were at one point.

 

[BocoDragon]

as a fan of the comics homecoming was the movie that I had been waiting for ever since the first x men kicked off the comic book movie renaissance. it's the best depiction of spider man on the big screen by a wide margin.

but I'll let you enjoy those other movies ;p

Sure, the Spiderman who gets all his costume and technology (??) and approval as a hero handed down from a billionaire. They really nailed the classic story of an underdog nerd who self-transforms into a superhero.....

Okay okay, I'm not doing the "I'll let you enjoy it" thing very well ;P I'm gonna leave it at that in this thread. I am checking the other one.

 

[bananafactory]

There's actually an upcoming re-edit of the film that's supposedly excising that scene altogether with one of Harry breaking down upon realising how close he, Pete and MJ were at one point.

It's out. I own it, but haven't watched it yet.

 

[Shaanyboi]

There's actually an upcoming re-edit of the film that's supposedly excising that scene altogether with one of Harry breaking down upon realising how close he, Pete and MJ were at one point.

That re-edit is already out. Basically instead of the butler making that awful exposition drop, after Peter tries convincing Harry to help, Harry sees a broken photo of the three of them and looks sad. It's short, but atleast far more effective. It makes the truth about his dad etc. irrelevant in his choice to help his friend.

 

[Nerdkiller]

It's out. I own it, but haven't watched it yet.

That re-edit is already out.

Oooh, that announcement to release came by fast now, didn't it?

 

[Van Bur3n]

Nothing wrong with being bad. It's so bad that it's good. Now, DIG ON THIS!

 

[phanphare]

Sure, the Spiderman who gets all his costume and technology (??) and approval as a hero handed down from a billionaire. They really nailed the classic story of an underdog nerd who self-transforms into a superhero.....

Okay okay, I'm not doing the "I'll let you enjoy it" thing very well ;P I'm gonna leave it at that in this thread. I am checking the other one.

they did actually nail that part, now that you mention it. did you actually watch the movie because it doesn't seem like it based on this post. not going to get into spoilers here but it seems like you're making assumptions based on the trailers.

also I was more referring to the characterization of peter parker and spider man. homecoming nailed it, previous movies botched it. simple as that, really.

 

[theCalamity]

You can tell this is what was in Raimi's head as a Spiderman fan for decades, and it's what he would have focused his Spiderman 3 on, had he full creative control.

I would have enjoyed that movie. You can tell he put his heart into that part and onto the Sandman as a whole.

 

[The Kree]

Tobey MacGuire was miscast as Spider-Man.

Kirsten Dunst was miscast as Mary Jane.

Topher Grace was miscast as Venom.

Sandman's arc did not have a satisfying conclusion. He and Spider-Man fight all throughout the movie and in the end he's allowed to apologize and just fly away despite having committed several crimes for which he was not adequately punished.

Venom is a very shallow and underdeveloped villain, not physically imposing enough, and lacking menace. He came off as merely petty when he should have been scary and intimidating.

There's a very clumsy exposition drop at the end of the second act that sloppily attempts to reconcile the conflict between Peter and Harry.

A lot of the visual effects aren't good. The CG heroes and villains feel floaty, rubbery, and weightless while fighting.

 

[Username1198]

Nothing wrong with being bad. It's so bad that it's good. Now, DIG ON THIS!

Oh man forgot all about this, I guess it's times to cringe myself to sleep?

 

[BocoDragon]

they did actually nail that part, now that you mention it. did you actually watch the movie because it doesn't seem like it based on this post. not going to get into spoilers here but it seems like you're making assumptions based on the trailers.

also I was more referring to the characterization of peter parker and spider man. homecoming nailed it, previous movies botched it. simple as that, really.

Yes, I saw the movie last night. Not a fan.

 

[btrboyev]

Tobey MacGuire was miscast as Spider-Man.

Kirsten Dunst was miscast as Mary Jane.

Topher Grace was miscast as Venom.

Sandman's arc did not have a satisfying conclusion. He and Spider-Man fight all throughout the movie and in the end he's allowed to apologize and just fly away despite having committed several crimes for which he was not adequately punished.

Venom is a very shallow and underdeveloped villain, not physically imposing enough, and lacking menace. He came off as merely petty when he should have been scary and intimidating.

There's a very clumsy exposition drop at the end of the second act that sloppily attempts to reconcile the conflict between Peter and Harry.

A lot of the visual effects aren't good. The CG heroes and villains feel floaty, rubbery, and weightless while fighting.

Bullshit on the first two. Tobey and Dunst were great in the roles. Tobey let himself goes physically by the time the 3rd movie unfortunately.

 

[HiiiLife]

Peter Parker hair flip is GOAT.

 

[phanphare]

Yes, I saw the movie last night. Not a fan.

interesting, that point you made in your post flies in the face of the actual movie though

but you can come to the spoiler thread if you want it laid out

Bullshit on the first two. Tobey and Dunst were great in the roles.

good god no. only reason the first two movies were good was because dafoe and molina put that shit on their back and carried it.

 

[KernelPanic]

Raimi was the perfect director for Spider-Man. The way he treated the characters(except 3) was perfect.

Say what you want about Tobey but I think Raimi got the best out of him.

Watching the first 2 films I thought in the back of my mind that Sony could fuck this up anytime. And sure enough they did.

Studio just had to shove in Venom.

 

[Nerdkiller]

Raimi was the perfect director for Spider-Man. The way he treated the characters(except 3) was perfect.

Say what you want about Tobey but I think Raimi got the best out of him.

Watching the first 2 films I thought in the back of my mind that Sony could fuck this up anytime. And sure enough they did.

Studio just had to shove in Venom.

My Spiderman.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Never understood how Raimi gets a pass for "intentionally" making a shit movie.

You don't like Venom? Who cares? Make the goddamned movie properly or quit. Raimi started the trend of "my vision is greater than the source material" bullshit that plagued comic book movies for years.

 

[Van Bur3n]

My Spiderman.

A gentleman as always, Spidey.

 

[Jon Carter]

Definitely underrated. And the Dark Peter scenes are great. That's Peter's idea of acting like a bad boy.

 

[Farsi]

good god no. only reason the first two movies were good was because dafoe and molina put that shit on their back and carried it.

 

[phanphare]

ok JJJ too ;p