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[entremet]

First, Republicans are professional politicians. Yes, so are most Democrats. But the parties are not the same.

The Democratic Party is a coalition of interest groups, with some shared views but also a lot of conflicts, and politicians get ahead through their success in striking compromises and finding acceptable solutions.

The G.O.P., by contrast, is one branch of a monolithic structure, movement conservatism, with a rigid ideology — tax cuts for the rich above all else. Other branches of the structure include a captive media that parrots the party line every step of the way. Compare the coverage of recent political developments on Fox News with almost everywhere else; we’re talking North Korea levels of alternative reality.

And this monolithic structure — lavishly supported by a small number of very, very wealthy families — rewards, indeed insists on, absolute fealty. Furthermore, the structure has been in place for a long time: It has been 36 years since Reagan was elected, 22 years since the Gingrich takeover of Congress. What this means is that nearly all Republicans in today’s Congress are apparatchiks, political creatures with no higher principle beyond party loyalty.

Krugman has never been a fan of the current GOP but he goes more in that usual here lol.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/19/...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

 

[gamz]

So true. It's nice they are being exposed.

 

[Jawbreaker]

He's not wrong. Both parties are definitely not the same.

 

[zero_suit]

The GOP has been trash for decades, but the crazy has been steadily ramping up since Bush's second term.

 

[WolfeTone]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

 

[DarkKyo]

While completely true, the people who need to read and understand this in order for anything to change will never read or understand this.

 

[WolfeTone]

While completely true, the people who need to read and understand this in order for anything to change will never read or understand this.

When a large portion of the electorate views their political party in the same way as their local football team, this is always going to be the case. Even when your team is losing, you still root for them.

 

[Espada]

While completely true, the people who need to read and understand this in order for anything to change will never read or understand this.

When a large portion of the electorate views their political party in the same way as their local football team, this is always going to be the case. Even when your team is losing, you still root for them.

Case in point, that article about Trump loyalists either not knowing (or not caring) about any of the negative news about Donald Trump.

As people said in that thread, we are absolutely fucked. Krugman observation's aren't new, but it's definitely worth putting out there once more. Why? Because the Republican machine is responsible for the shitshow that is currently on display. It also explains their behaviors on any numbers of topics, like healthcare, education, etc...

 

[IamDodongo]

Compare the coverage of recent political developments on Fox News with almost everywhere else; we’re talking North Korea levels of alternative reality.

It's honestly pretty scary.

They've stepped completely into propaganda territory, and everyone should treat them that way.

 

[makingmusic476]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

For some reason no one wants to push for it.

I've thought for a long time that it's our biggest issue, and one issue that constituents of both parties could find common ground on and push for in a somewhat united manner.

 

[WolfeTone]

For some reason no one wants to push for it.

I've thought for a long time that it's our biggest issue, and one issue that constituents of both parties could find common ground on and push for in a somewhat united manner.

I guess both parties are content to be in power roughly 50% of the time and don't want to rock the boat too much in case that changes too much.

The two party system is a huge problem in the US.

 

[LegendofLex]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

Incumbents are heavily disincentivized from doing anything that could threaten their reelection campaigns.

 

[Gallbaro]

I guess both parties are content to be in power roughly 50% of the time and don't want to rock the boat too much in case that changes too much.

The two party system is a huge problem in the US.

This, a politician's first job is to stay in power and minimize their chances of loosing power.

 

[makingmusic476]

I guess both parties are content to be in power roughly 50% of the time and don't want to rock the boat too much in case that changes too much.

The two party system is a huge problem in the US.

I'm talking about voters, too. When talking to my friends, they always write it off as a pipe dream and go back to discussing who's better on healthcare, etc.

There's no enthusiasm about correcting a flaw in the system that make so many other battles more challenging. You never see any sort of pressure placed on candidates or Representatives about this issue.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

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[YourMaster]

I guess both parties are content to be in power roughly 50% of the time and don't want to rock the boat too much in case that changes too much.

The two party system is a huge problem in the US.

They aren't in power 50% of the time, they are both in roughly 50% of the power all the time. And quite stable, the majority of districts and states never change 'hands'.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

They're old rich white racists who think women are baby machines that belong in the kitchen, as the filthy browns and poors pull their lavish carriage. I don't need an article to tell me that.

 

[entremet]

It's honestly pretty scary.

They've stepped completely into propaganda territory, and everyone should treat them that way.

They seem to be imploding luckily.

 

[EdibleKnife]

He's not wrong. Both parties are definitely not the same.

They're old rich white racists who think women are baby machines that belong in the kitchen, as the filthy browns and poors pull their lavish carriage. I don't need an article to tell me that.

Two takes I agree with. The politics of Repubs has slowly gone on be a literal opposing reflection of what it should mean to be an American, the same BS we as a country salivate over in songs: Actual equality, assistance to the disenfranchised and holding the powerful accountable. To be a republican now only means that you're supporting a party that you know will not just help you but outright destroy the people not in your camp.

 

[Garlador]

They're old rich white racists who think women are baby machines that belong in the kitchen, as the filthy browns and poors pull their lavish carriage. I don't need an article to tell me that.

The White House indeed.

 

[Amir0x]

I really wish Republicans were a respectable party so we could have mature debates about the direction we feel this country needs to go in, and be willing to compromise where necessary to come to terms.

But the modern Republican party is objectively offensive. Anyone who is a part of it now is complicit in the wholesale attempt to destroy our country, brick by brick. In denying scientific facts in order to push corporate ideologies, in ignoring basic institutional realities with regards to minorities, LGBT, women in the name of Sharia Law White Christian values, in the ability to let a man like Trump become president and hijack your party while you sit silently by or even support the monster. Party over country. Overnight, net approval +25 for Russia! Overnight, Republican view of the economy improved drastically when the black man wasn't there, even though nothing had actually changed by the new administration.

These are people who live in a fantasy world. To call it a bubble would be wrong, because bubbles are fleeting and pop and fade. These motherfuckers call anything they don't like to hear #FakeNews, and literally evacuate any knowledge from their brain that serves to challenge their comically shallow worldviews. They are the enemy now. They live in an titanium sphere of ignorance.

 

[shnurgleton]

What's the deal with airplane food?

 

[SolarPowered]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

Look at the list of our presidents. You have to go back to the year 1850 to find a President that didn't belong to either party. Even now billionaires have to kiss the ring of either party or they will just end up wasting a few hundred million on a failed race. No person or group of people could be powerful enough to get the ball rolling peacefully. There will have to see bloodshed before this country gets rid of the electoral college, gets rid of first past the post voting or introduces universal basic income.

 

[Auto_aim1]

The thing is, Republicans may have complete power right now but they are actually slowly losing their grip on the US.

a) They can't implement their agenda because too many people rely on the things they want to remove

b) Changing demographics

So their only goal is to get power and hold on to it. Republicans are one step away from getting fucked for the next 25 or 30 years and that could happen if they impeach Trump and piss of their base or pass nothing for the next 3-4 years. This is the reason they let Trump get the nomination. They are worried as fuck about losing power.

 

[samn]

I guess both parties are content to be in power roughly 50% of the time and don't want to rock the boat too much in case that changes too much.

The two party system is a huge problem in the US.

No, it's not a big problem. There is plenty of scope for change within each party.

 

[Brinbe]

Duh... If you need Krugman to tell you any of that, you haven't been paying attention. The GOP only REALLY cares about two things, enriching the rich and gutting government (to further enrich the rich). Otherwise, they have no real abiding principals. All that Christ talk, anti-science/pro-war racist attitudes, etc are only a byproduct of a) limiting government regulation/furthering free market principles to help corporations get richer b)paying lip service to their idiotic/racist electorate, who they NEED to vote/further their real goals, which is, of course, enriching the rich.

If you have any doubt, the first two things they did with full control of the Congress/Presidency is AHCA and now tax reform, two unpopular agenda items that they're trying to get through because, of course, THEY'LL FURTHER ENRICH THE RICH.

And of course government is completely broken now because you can't successfully play a two-player game (and it is a two-player game) when only one rational actor is involved. The side effect of this is basically the Jay Z line from The Takeover, A wise man told me don't argue with fools 'Cause people from a distance can't tell who is who And to the average, non-educated voter, that's what it looks like. BOTH SIDES ARE THE SAME!!! Ugh, no they're not you fucking dummy.

 

[Toxi]

The thing is, Republicans may have complete power right now but they are actually slowly losing their grip on the US.

a) They can't implement their agenda because too many people rely on the things they want to remove

b) Changing demographics

So their only goal is to get power and hold on to it. Republicans are one step away from getting fucked for the next 25 or 30 years and that could happen if they impeach Trump and piss of their base or pass nothing for the next 3-4 years. This is the reason they let Trump get the nomination. They are worried as fuck about losing power.

This is delusion. The Republican Party were also ruined in 2008, being tied in the public consciousness to both the pointless, bloody, and costly Iraq War and the Great Recession. Two years later, they won the House. The American people have the collective memory of a goldfish. That is how 8 years after one of our most infamously disastrous presidencies, after Bush the lying Republican idiot was everyone's punchline, people voted for fucking Donald Trump.

You need to recognize that no, the Republican Party is not losing when they completely control 2 branches of the Federal Government and most state legislatures and gubernatorial seats. They are not at any serious risk.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Compare the coverage of recent political developments on Fox News with almost everywhere else; we’re talking North Korea levels of alternative reality

Absolutely.
It's a serious thing, terrifying.

 

[tearsintherain]

The thing is, Republicans may have complete power right now but they are actually slowly losing their grip on the US.

a) They can't implement their agenda because too many people rely on the things they want to remove

b) Changing demographics

So their only goal is to get power and hold on to it. Republicans are one step away from getting fucked for the next 25 or 30 years and that could happen if they impeach Trump and piss of their base or pass nothing for the next 3-4 years. This is the reason they let Trump get the nomination. They are worried as fuck about losing power.

I remember hearing in 2015 that changing demographics meant we may never see a republican president again. I guess that idea is coming around again, if it leads to complacency in 2018 and 2020 its going to be interesting.

People have it wrong on "whats the matter with republicans". Most republican voters only stand for one thing: at least they aren't democrats. As long as democrats are associated with the idea that they will take your money and give it to someone else (poor/minority/immigrant), its always going to be a close race. Yes, it is ironic that it tends to be republicans who are much better at taking taxpayer money and just handing it over to corporations, but irony doesn't come into play in elections.

 

[Auto_aim1]

This is delusion. The Republican Party were also ruined in 2008, being tied in the public consciousness to both the pointless, bloody, and costly Iraq War and the Great Recession. Two years later, they won the House. The American people have the collective memory of a goldfish.

You need to recognize that no, the Republican Party is not losing when they completely control 2 branches of the Federal Government and most state legislatures and gubernatorial seats.

It's not delusion, it's reality. They have power now because they spread FUD about Obama about how he was going to destroy the country, along with gerrymandering and voter suppression. It can't continue on forever. Eventually the changing demographics will hit them in the face like a brick and there's nothing they can do about it because very few people like their agenda especially minorities. Even Republicans now are worried about losing Obamacare now that they finally kinda know what it is.

 

[Lime]

Republicans deserve to go to a 2017 version of the Nuremberg trials for the death and pain and suffering they've caused for decades

 

[Mr.Shrugglesツ]

Whats the matter with republicans?

They're assholes.

 

[Ogodei]

The fall of Roger Ailes might have a ripple effect in this regard, as the Murdoch Sons clean up Fox News (doubt it will stop being conservative, but it might lose the pernicious, reality-warping brand of conservatism it currently has, leaving its viewers as merely disagreeable rather than aggressively ignorant).

 

[Byakuya769]

I guess both parties are content to be in power roughly 50% of the time and don't want to rock the boat too much in case that changes too much.

The two party system is a huge problem in the US.

One party is an ideological monolith, the other a collection of interest groups that compromise.


Who do you think will be more swayed by other parties? What's the result?

 

[capitalCORN]

People really need to wake up and see what the right really thinks of the left. They see you with the same repulsive disgust that you see them. Except, we don't piss where we drink, and we disseminate while they chant.

 

[TetraGenesis]

When a large portion of the electorate views their political party in the same way as their local football team, this is always going to be the case. Even when your team is losing, you still root for them.

This is how I always think of it but, man, something about the way you worded it really made my stomach drop.

There is no fixing this.

 

[pa22word]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

Because if you want to make real changes, you need constitutional amendments and those are basically impossible to get consensus on.

 

[kirblar]

This is how I always think of it but, man, something about the way you worded it really made my stomach drop.

There is no fixing this.

Politics as hobby. When you're privileged enough not to be affected by things, this is what happens. Hence, the GOP's singular tax-cut focus.

 

[Sulik2]

He's not wrong. Both parties are definitely not the same.

They used to be the same. From WWII to Reagan there was not much difference. Its been a slow division that really catalized with Obama's election. The GOP has swung hard right and found its white supremecist and wealthy base. I think the dems need to swing left and bring in the liberals who have never had a viable party in the USA to compensate.

 

[Tigress]

Case in point, that article about Trump loyalists either not knowing (or not caring) about any of the negative news about Donald Trump.

As people said in that thread, we are absolutely fucked. Krugman observation's aren't new, but it's definitely worth putting out there once more. Why? Because the Republican machine is responsible for the shitshow that is currently on display. It also explains their behaviors on any numbers of topics, like healthcare, education, etc...

I saw a Trump loyalist on reddit today so far into his bubble that his proof that Fox News was the only unbiased media was that it talked less negatively about Trump than other media. He was so far into the "Trump is a good president' belief that he was absolutely sure that just the fact that a media talked badly about trump was solid proof that a media was biased, enough so that it would shut up naysayers even.

 

[Kettch]

That analogy is a bit insulting to sports fans. When a team makes blunders, their fans rightfully rail against them even though they're still fans of the team. When the GOP screws everything up, Republicans either ignore it or say it was all planned and a great job.

 

[Codeblue]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

Because the "both sides are the same" camp is a group of people that are willfully ignorant but don't want to admit it. Even if there was something they wanted to vote for, they probably wouldn't know it or would be too afraid to take a side to admit it.

 

[freethoughtbubble]

I hope this is the beginning of a trend in commentators calling a spade a spade. We need to talk about the GOP for what it really is: a propaganda machine for the wealthy and a cult for everyone else.

 

[onipex]

True, but I doubt this changes anything.

 

[PhantomThief]

I saw a Trump loyalist on reddit today so far into his bubble that his proof that Fox News was the only unbiased media was that it talked less negatively about Trump than other media. He was so far into the "Trump is a good president' belief that he was absolutely sure that just the fact that a media talked badly about trump was solid proof that a media was biased, enough so that it would shut up naysayers even.

That's what 90% of them think. It's like they are brainwashed. It's beyond scary.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

Why isn't electoral reform talked about in the US? With so much 'both sides are the same' rhetoric, you'd think there'd be more appetite for getting more parties and viewpoints into the mix.

Though the people chanting about 'both sides' probably aren't intelligent enough to make the connection between establishment politics and the electoral system.

Because people who argue "both sides" aren't actually interested in changing anything. It's an anthem for the lazy and uninspired who have given up on educating themselves about government and current affairs, and refuse to think critically. If you're still claiming "both sides" after all this, then you're either fine with the current state of our government or you're too dumb/privileged to understand how it affects people.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Because people who argue "both sides" aren't actually interested in changing anything. It's an anthem for the lazy and uninspired who have given up on educating themselves about government and current affairs, and refuse to think critically. If you're still claiming "both sides" after all this, then you're either fine with the current state of our government or you're too dumb/privileged to understand how it affects people.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Stinkles]

True, but I doubt this changes anything.

Collapse will be the physics of change for the GOP so it is a when problem not an if problem. They have shown astonishing resiliency.

The one note of shortsightedness is the creation of an angry mob that demands its due. They have no intention of paying.

 

[Brinbe]

Collapse will be the physics of change for the GOP so it is a when problem not an if problem. They have shown astonishing resiliency.

The one note of shortsightedness is the creation of an angry mob that demands its due. They have no intention of paying.

Unfortunately, the only ones who get the blame will be Dems, as usual. The brain-washed masses live in an alternative reality with alternative facts/figures.

 

[water_wendi]

Because the "both sides are the same" camp is a group of people that are willfully ignorant but don't want to admit it. Even if there was something they wanted to vote for, they probably wouldn't know it or would be too afraid to take a side to admit it.

The thing both sides are is bought.