Whats with Japan's population crisis?

64gigabyteram

64gigabyteram

Reverse groomer.
It seems like everything I hear about Japan is how there's less young people than before. People can't date, get married and reproduce, thanks to the awful work conditions it's hard for people to have any free time and the population is declining day by day. It looks like peril for this place.

Will this country even be a thing 10-15 years from now?
 
It's what unchecked capitalism does to a country. People work like slaves impossible hours so surprise surprise they have no time to do anything else, plus life is too expensive to have kids. So instead of the Japanese government legislating better wages or making it extremely illegal for these overtimes to exist they invented a bunch of pathetic social programs hoping that they'll change the dire situation. And of course they won't do it because like most governments throughout the world they're now puppets to international and domestic corporations and rich assholes.
 
They need to have more babies. But when you tell people for generations the world is overpopulated some people believe you.
 
The population is expected to decrease to around 116.62 million by 2030, fall below 100 million to 99.13 million in 2048, and drop to 86.74 million by 2060
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5-10 more years they'll probably make it easier for immigrants to go there in a controlled manner, rather than open borders. The labour shortage already seems quite bad.

Plus massively incentivise having more kids, perhaps lower tax rates for families with more kids or some shit.

When I was living on Kyushu, there were so many beautiful but dying rural villages, typically coastal. School closing down year by year and many schools with like less than 10 students and planned for closure. So I often think about how strange it'll be to have what may be hundreds of completely abandoned towns in the not too distance future.
 
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Konnor said:
It's what unchecked capitalism does to a country. People work like slaves impossible hours so surprise surprise they have no time to do anything else, plus life is too expensive to have kids. So instead of the Japanese government legislating better wages or making it extremely illegal for these overtimes to exist they invented a bunch of pathetic social programs hoping that they'll change the dire situation. And of course they won't do it because like most governments throughout the world they're now puppets to international and domestic corporations and rich assholes.
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I always heard it's tough for foreigners to immigrate to Japan too. Lots of other countries rise up and grow the country due to immigration. I dont think the natural birth rate of locals is that much different (typically all low in rich western style countries too along with Japan). But a steady flow of annual immigration boosts the people, economy and jobs complementing what the locals already do.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
I always heard it's tough for foreigners to immigrate to Japan too. Lots of other countries rise up and grow the country due to immigration. I dont think the natural birth rate of locals is that much different (typically all low in rich western style countries too along with Japan). But a steady flow of annual immigration boosts the people, economy and jobs complementing what the locals already do.
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Becoming another Sweden is not a solution to lower birth rates. Such "solutions" exist only to serve our corporate overlords twofold: They bring cheap and easily controllable wage slaves from abroad and the governments don't have to address the real problems stemming from corporate greed and rich asshole schemes.
 
Konnor said:
Becoming another Sweden is not a solution to lower birth rates. Such "solutions" exist only to serve our corporate overlords twofold: They bring cheap and easily controllable wage slaves from abroad and the governments don't have to address the real problems stemming from corporate greed and rich asshole schemes.
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You can always do the Canada route which is any foreigner coming over gets evaluated on skill set, education and whatever other metrics. The higher pts you score the better chances of coming over. That's why so few immigrants here come over dirt poor or are trouble makers. You walk into half the stores in Toronto and the owner has an accent which means he wasnt raised here. He came over at some point, has some money and education and next thing you know the guy opened up a store or restaurant.
 
StreetsofBeige said:
You can always do the Canada route which is any foreigner coming over gets evaluated on skill set, education and whatever other metrics. The higher pts you score the better chances of coming over. That's why so few immigrants here come over dirt poor or are trouble makers. You walk into half the stores in Toronto and the owner has an accent which means he wasnt raised here. He came over at some point, has some money and education and next thing you know the guy opened up a store or restaurant.
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Definitely the right way to do it but I don't think they can make up for their staggering population decline that way, they really have to drop their standards to achieve that.
 
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Konnor said:
Definitely the right way to do it but I don't think they can make up for their staggering population decline that way, they really have to drop their standards to achieve that.
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I think the better solution is to make pay higher and work lower, as outlandish as it sounds japan is very xenophobic and don't like foreigners. We have to give more free time to more Japanese
 
64bitmodels said:
I think the better solution is to make pay higher and work lower, as outlandish as it sounds japan is very xenophobic and don't like foreigners. We have to give more free time to more Japanese
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That's the better solution in every country that is facing population problems but they don't do it because politicians are bought and paid for by rich fucks.
 
64bitmodels said:
It seems like everything I hear about Japan is how there's less young people than before. People can't date, get married and reproduce, thanks to the awful work conditions it's hard for people to have any free time and the population is declining day by day. It looks like peril for this place.

Will this country even be a thing 10-15 years from now?
Click to expand...

They're just going to have to put their xenophobia aside and embrace immigration.
 
Here's an easy one. Just the process of giving a birth at a hospital can cost you up to 1,000,000 yen. Then once they hit junior high school age, if they're in public school, even though that's free if you want your kid to get into a decent high school you're going to have to pay for cram school. Then it's high school time and you have to do the exact same thing if you want them to get into a university. Oh by the way, you have to do the same thing if you want them to get a good job or onto a graduate course , too. So education in Japan being free is a total myth actually.

That's just the education part of having kids. Japan is expensive as shit and that is something immigration cannot fix because the vast vast majority of immigrants in Japan are from poorer Asian countries (think Vietnam, The Philippines, etc) who take on low income jobs, and can barely afford to survive as it is. There will never be an influx of wealthy Westerners looking to build families because, most Westerners treat their stay in Japan as one long holiday. A few might get married, but most don't want to integrate at a local level, or learn the language.

I think the trend is irreversible unless there some huge upswing in the economy (unlikely) and people can feel their own future is more secure, but it will level out at some point.
 
64bitmodels said:
I think the better solution is to make pay higher and work lower, as outlandish as it sounds japan is very xenophobic and don't like foreigners. We have to give more free time to more Japanese
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That would have to happen concurrently with significant changes to how they do business. They can't just work less and be paid more and have the same level of productivity and global competitiveness.

I suspect there are a lot of ingrained, institutional business practices and cultural norms that need to radically change before they can increase their productivity while working less. Of course, there is then always the question if those "wasteful" business practices actually have some sort of intangible benefit and if removing them would actually lead to a worse result.
 


You think Japan's bad? Take a look at it's neighbor South Korea's fertility rate. 0.75 - way lower than Japan, even though, Japan had it going for quite some time longer.
However in Korea's case - the drop is like nose-dive. About 5 years ago, it was comparable to Japan, but now it's like half of Japan's fertility rate.

Japan wants to keep the 100M people in order to keep the domestic economy afloat - but not sure if they can.
S. Korea though - with their population at 50M or so - UN predicts that it will be around 37M by 2100.
Both countries are in deep trouble.

China also is looking at aging population issues, people not marrying nor having children etc.

Ultimately it comes down to this. Benefit of having children <<< Not having children in those countries.
 
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I always find funny those who would want to "participate in the act", I know if it is a joke, but if you look as if it was "real" most would say NO XD. There would be a lot of strings attached to it.
 
There are too many people in Japan as it is. Once their population halves I bet baby numbers will rise sharply and they won't be forced to live in tiny half a room apartments because lots of living space will be empty and cheap. Sure, it will cause a lot of issues as well, maintenance will suffer, companies and cities will have to downsize or die but automation and a smart government should be able to alleviate some of it..
 
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You have my spear!

Well, I've had a vasectomy, but that apparently makes me as fertile as the typical Japanese man so that shouldn't be a handicap :p
 
A bunch of things.

In families from the country, they often have one kid who leaves as soon as they're an adult.

Men work too much to help with a family and are too stressed to have sex.

There's a considerable cohort of career women who don't want marriage or children at all.

A bunch of old people are going to die in the next few decades, and since they haven't been replaced the population is going to start shrinking significantly.

Lastly, Japan has a very xenophobic and racist society. In most countries if there is a major reduction in population, the government will ease immigration laws. Japan absolutely refuses to let people in. And worse, immigrants rarely become citizens. There are ethnic Koreans who have been in Japan foe 100 years, their ancestors came a long time ago, but Japan won't recognize them as Japanese.
 
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Konnor said:
It's what unchecked capitalism does to a country. People work like slaves impossible hours so surprise surprise they have no time to do anything else, plus life is too expensive to have kids. So instead of the Japanese government legislating better wages or making it extremely illegal for these overtimes to exist they invented a bunch of pathetic social programs hoping that they'll change the dire situation. And of course they won't do it because like most governments throughout the world they're now puppets to international and domestic corporations and rich assholes.
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In countries like India and Egypt the population grows fast even though people work longer and get paid less. because poor people have the societal structure that gets many of them married and with a home.

The real reason is the destruction of the family structure. women getting pushed to work like men and don't have time or energy to run a home. all for mirage of a "carrier" that turns out to be a secretary who tidies up someone's office then grows up lonely and bitter.
 
Japanese girls don't want baby when young , but they fuck a lot.
After they are around 35 they get desperate but no guy want that pussy anymore (in jpn after 30 is already useless girl)

That's my experience living here . 😂
 
Amiga said:
In countries like India and Egypt the population grows fast even though people work longer and get paid less. because poor people have the societal structure that gets many of them married and with a home.

The real reason is the destruction of the family structure. women getting pushed to work like men and don't have time or energy to run a home. all for mirage of a "carrier" that turns out to be a secretary who tidies up someone's office then grows up lonely and bitter.
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In countries like Egypt and India many people are uneducated and uneducated people tend to breed like rabbits without even considering the consequences of their actions. People from first world countries though carefully consider their options before having children because they demand a stable environment for them. Not that I disagree about your point on the destruction of family structure but that too is the result of greedy capitalists that wanted more women in the workplace to drive wages down and have more available workers so that they can weaken unions and workers' rights.
 
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Konnor said:
In countries like Egypt and India many people are uneducated and uneducated people tend to breed like rabbits without even consider the consequences of their actions. People from first world countries though carefully consider their options before having children because they demand a stable environment for them. Not that I disagree about your point on the destruction of family structure but that too is the result of unchecked capitalism that wanted more women in the workplace to drive wages down and have more available workers so that they can weaken unions and workers' rights.
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Japan's economy is predicated on the idea of "collective capitalism" which expressly rejects the core concepts of "unchecked" capitalism. Japan's bizzare system gives workers benefits like national healthcare, jobs for life, and pensions which are absent in other more open markets.

Japan's fertility issue is twofold. Japan is a highly developed economy with a social safety net. Children are not necessary to survival or to perform work. Children have become a choice rather than necessity which is common cause of dropping birthrates among other developed countries. The second is cultural. Japan's culture is rigid, hierarchical, and demanding. Younger generations are rejecting the previous order and choosing to focus on their own interests. Marriage and building a family unit are one of the institutions being ditched.

Every country faces the same issue as it's economy develops regardless of economic system. Immigration has been used to plug the gaps in most places. Japanese people would rather talk to robots than foreigners so the idea never gained much ground. Companies like Rakuten made gestures toward drawing international high end immigrants but the moves are too isolated and too late.
 
Lasha said:
Japan's economy is predicated on the idea of "collective capitalism" which expressly rejects the core concepts of "unchecked" capitalism. Japan's bizzare system gives workers benefits like national healthcare, jobs for life, and pensions which are absent in other more open markets.

Japan's fertility issue is twofold. Japan is a highly developed economy with a social safety net. Children are not necessary to survival or to perform work. Children have become a choice rather than necessity which is common cause of dropping birthrates among other developed countries. The second is cultural. Japan's culture is rigid, hierarchical, and demanding. Younger generations are rejecting the previous order and choosing to focus on their own interests. Marriage and building a family unit are one of the institutions being ditched.

Every country faces the same issue as it's economy develops regardless of economic system. Immigration has been used to plug the gaps in most places. Japanese people would rather talk to robots than foreigners so the idea never gained much ground. Companies like Rakuten made gestures toward drawing international high end immigrants but the moves are too isolated and too late.
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Actually with the exception of jobs for life which I don't know how true it is the other ones are present is every single first world country (hell, even third world ones) with the obvious exception that is the US that lately resembles more a banana republic than a first world nation. Japan also has a ridiculous working "culture" that punishes workers for not working ridiculous overtimes for free and expensive as fuck... everything that makes raising a family very difficult.

Immigration has been used to plug the gaps in most places.
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Immigration has been used to plug the gaps corporate fucks have at the expense of the domestic middle class. The middle and lower classes of Sweden, France and other countries that went down that road aren't wealthier because of it, if anything many of their neibourhoods have been absolutely destroyed, their wages tumbled in some professions, their social safety nets became vulnerable and had to be adjusted down for everyone and all these countries "gained" was more slaves for the corporate mechine. It's the perfect neoliberal recipe therefore not a solution that benefits anyone but politicians and rich assholes.
 
Go_Ly_Dow said:
5-10 more years they'll probably make it easier for immigrants to go there in a controlled manner, rather than open borders. The labour shortage already seems quite bad.

Plus massively incentivise having more kids, perhaps lower tax rates for families with more kids or some shit.

When I was living on Kyushu, there were so many beautiful but dying rural villages, typically coastal. School closing down year by year and many schools with like less than 10 students and planned for closure. So I often think about how strange it'll be to have what may be hundreds of completely abandoned towns in the not too distance future.
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Something like Hungary, then:
www.cnbc.com

Have four or more babies in Hungary and you'll pay no income tax for life, prime minister says

Hungarian women that have four or more children are to be exempted from paying income tax for life, the prime minister has said.
www.cnbc.com www.cnbc.com
 
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Weird this thread exists when the same day a China thread was opened which has an even worse demographics collapse. In general, world population has peaked in most modern nations. Japan is no better or worse than most - Europe is a serious skid too.
 
Konnor said:
In countries like Egypt and India many people are uneducated and uneducated people tend to breed like rabbits without even consider the consequences of their actions. People from first world countries though carefully consider their options before having children because they demand a stable environment for them. Not that I disagree about your point on the destruction of family structure but that too is the result of greedy capitalists that wanted more women in the workplace to drive wages down and have more available workers so that they can weaken unions and workers' rights.
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This ain't true. Modern economies which have lower birthrates are generally not because they are more educated, per say, but they also have more economic mobility in general for both men and women. Further, economic pressure with housing, luxuries, and other priorities further suppresses birth rates. It's not that modern economies people are more thoughtful - it's they don't have the option more often than not.

And I think women want to make decisions of their own in terms of contributions to society - not "greedy capitalism". You dismiss agency to score points which isn't even correct.
 
Konnor said:
Actually with the exception of jobs for life which I don't know how true it is the other ones are present is every single first world country (hell, even third world ones) with the obvious exception that is the US that lately resembles more a banana republic than a first world nation. Japan also has a ridiculous working "culture" that punishes workers for not working ridiculous overtimes for free and expensive as fuck... everything that makes raising a family very difficult.



Immigration has been used to plug the gaps corporate fucks have at the expense of the domestic middle class. The middle and lower classes of Sweden, France and other countries that went down that road aren't wealthier because of it, if anything many of their neibourhoods have been absolutely destroyed, their wages tumbled in some professions, their social safety nets became vulnerable and had to be adjusted down for everyone and all these countries "gained" was more slaves for the corporate mechine. It's the perfect neoliberal recipe therefore not a solution that benefits anyone but politicians and rich assholes.
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The system goes a lot further than permanent employment but you can go read a book on it or something if you really want to know more. The mechanics were much closer to life in a collective under soviet rule(with much better benefits) than the "unchecked capitalism" you mentioned. Japanese work culture is unrelated to its market system. Japan has had a pretty brutal culture for centuries.

Immigration is simple: Everybody likes their free healthcare and benefits. Nobody likes paying taxes. Aging societies end up with too many elderly/retirees using a disproportionate share of resources while there are fewer and fewer workers to pay taxes and deliver social services. Everybody says "more people should go into the trades" or "we should respect workers" but they send their (fewer) kids to university and still want to pay decades old rates for skilled services from plumbers or electricians. Immigration kills two birds with one stone by artifically depressing prices and generating more tax revenue. Both of which make voters happy.
 
AlteredForms said:
Somebody send some dick pills to Tams Tams .
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Yes, it could do with shrinking a bit. Too much for some women.

Also, wtf, mate? I thought this was some old thread where I'd given some uninformed opinion. But nah, you went out of your way just to try and insult me.
 
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PumpkinPie said:
I'd happily go over and pump some fine Japanese women.

and some not so fine ones too. I'm easy 🤷🏻‍♂️
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I would have happily done so myself but my Japanese college girlfriend dumped my ass. If I had just not worn a condom I coulda gotten like 5 kids past the goalie by now. Mephisto San Jr would be about ready to hit college in a few years to start pumping out mixed race babies of his own with Japanese women after graduation Thus gradually erasing my white genes and returning back to the natural order. My gene pool could have single handedly increased the birth rate by 1% within a generation!
 
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fran.fernandez said:
Japanese girls don't want baby when young , but they fuck a lot.
After they are around 35 they get desperate but no guy want that pussy anymore (in jpn after 30 is already useless girl)

That's my experience living here . 😂
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Yea pretty much this, i also live here.

The idea that people arent having sex in japan is silly. Everyone here is drunk and fucking on a friday and saturday night. It honestly turns me off from finding anyone.
 
kanjobazooie said:
Go to Japan and sow some seeds, OP. Be their savior.
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Daneel Elijah said:
Many countries have that problem. But most of them can use immigration to alleviate it. Japan will do the same sooner or later in my opinion.
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They seem (and of course, this is only my perception as someone observing from outside the country, not living within their daily culture) to have made a conscious effort to keep their ethnicity and culture as segregated from the rest of the world as possible. But yeah, they may eventually capitulate in order to move on. Either way, life's gonna do its thing.

Konnor said:
It's what unchecked capitalism does to a country. People work like slaves impossible hours so surprise surprise they have no time to do anything else, plus life is too expensive to have kids. So instead of the Japanese government legislating better wages or making it extremely illegal for these overtimes to exist they invented a bunch of pathetic social programs hoping that they'll change the dire situation. And of course they won't do it because like most governments throughout the world they're now puppets to international and domestic corporations and rich assholes.
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Now? That ain't nothin' new, man. That shit's as old as time itself.
 
The myth japanese people font have sex because of work is bullshit and i believe that for years, but a few years i learned what really happen and why we dont hear the truth

A japanese Ex GF from 1 of my friends worked in 1 of the goverment prevention from STD, and she told us its bullshit japanese people dont have much sex, because its full of love hotels, so people have alot of sex, the issue is the goverment and society is so good in safe sex, people rarely get pregnant and have unwanted babys

in other words to help with population japan need to forget their safe sex culture, and start acting like an average third World country
 
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