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Whats with Japan's population crisis?

The myth japanese people font have sex because of work is bullshit and i believe that for years, but a few years i learned what really happen and why we dont hear the truth

A japanese Ex GF from 1 of my friends worked in 1 of the goverment prevention from STD, and she told us its bullshit japanese people dont have much sex, because its full of love hotels, so people have alot of sex, the issue is the goverment and society is so good in safe sex, people rarely get pregnant and have unwanted babys

in other words to help with population japan need to forget their safe sex culture, and start acting like an average third World country

3rd world country? That has nothing to do with it. Look at the US - its a first world country and yet young teens have children all the damn time.
 

Tams

Member
The myth japanese people font have sex because of work is bullshit and i believe that for years, but a few years i learned what really happen and why we dont hear the truth

A japanese Ex GF from 1 of my friends worked in 1 of the goverment prevention from STD, and she told us its bullshit japanese people dont have much sex, because its full of love hotels, so people have alot of sex, the issue is the goverment and society is so good in safe sex, people rarely get pregnant and have unwanted babys

in other words to help with population japan need to forget their safe sex culture, and start acting like an average third World country
The love hotels part is true. And while many likely have dodgy funding, they must at least get some business.

Though even that is partly down to Japanese homes being shittly built. No, they won't fall down and many will survive earthquakes fine. You'll hear your neighbours though (or in a family home, whatever someone else is doing). Hardly conducive to sexy time.

The rest is bullshit. Sex education here might as well not exist. Many people are not prepared to even talk about it. And getting the morning after pill is a chore.

In contrast, back in the UK, our teacher put up photos of lots of STDs around the classroom in sex ed. We spent entire lessons discussing sezlx and how to be responsible. And she made it fun by doing stuff like letting us write down all the names for genitalia we could, or putting condoms on cucumbers.
 

Porcile

Member
The myth japanese people font have sex because of work is bullshit and i believe that for years, but a few years i learned what really happen and why we dont hear the truth

A japanese Ex GF from 1 of my friends worked in 1 of the goverment prevention from STD, and she told us its bullshit japanese people dont have much sex, because its full of love hotels, so people have alot of sex, the issue is the goverment and society is so good in safe sex, people rarely get pregnant and have unwanted babys

in other words to help with population japan need to forget their safe sex culture, and start acting like an average third World country

I've heard of Japan being a safe country, but even the sex is safer? Nice.
 
The real answer is that people repeat what they hear about Japan like a broken record no matter how many years ago they heard it because people LOVE to talk about cRAzY Japan without knowing anything. Japan has similar birth rates as most rich nations. In some case better.

It took about 100 years for people to stop saying that Japanese people think taking a picture steals that person's soul while also saying that Japanese people are always taking pictures. Maybe they are harvesting souls so they don't need to make babies.

Did you guys hear that in New York people murder you for your shoes?
 
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Elysion

Banned
While Japan’s demographics have some internal causes that are unique to Japan, the main reason for the country’s plummeting birth rates is the same as in every other developed and semi-developed country: increased female participation in the labor force. The moment women enter the workforce at comparable rates to men and compete with them on the labor market, birthrates drop drastically, usually below replacement level.

Participation in the labor force also includes steps taken to prepare women for the labor market – especially (higher) education. Women in a modern economy delay having children in favor of first going to college/university, followed by establishing themselves in the labor market. Then there’s the fact that with women expected to work, the labor force is much larger than before, which of course depresses wage growth, which is why one-income households simply aren’t possible anymore these days for most people, even if they wanted to.

Though in the long term I think having the population shrink could actually be a good thing. It decreases the amount of resources the economy consumes, property prices will plummet, and the shortage of workers leads to increased wages and/or lower working hours due to the stronger bargaining power of labor.
 

Scotty W

Banned
I think the better solution is to make pay higher and work lower, as outlandish as it sounds japan is very xenophobic and don't like foreigners. We have to give more free time to more Japanese
Unfortunately Japan has a very large senior citizen population, who will live to be extremely old. They cannot let up a bit.
 

Konnor

Member
Immigration is simple: Everybody likes their free healthcare and benefits. Nobody likes paying taxes. Aging societies end up with too many elderly/retirees using a disproportionate share of resources while there are fewer and fewer workers to pay taxes and deliver social services. Everybody says "more people should go into the trades" or "we should respect workers" but they send their (fewer) kids to university and still want to pay decades old rates for skilled services from plumbers or electricians. Immigration kills two birds with one stone by artifically depressing prices and generating more tax revenue. Both of which make voters happy.

Except the world is not static, HUMONGOUS productivity gains with the help of technology are being stolen by corporations the last decades with nothing given to the middle and lower classes. Part of these productivity gains could have gone to pensions and health care to mitigate for decreasing population, the other part could have been given to make starting a family much easier. Immigration also brings a lot of poor uneducated people to countries resulting in increase of crime, religious zealotry and other nasty side effects all of which affect the poor and benefit rich fucks that sit comfortably behind their gated communities and lecture the peasants about what a bunch of bigots they are because they dared to complain when they see their neighborhoods being ruined.

Immigration is good when it's controlled but the rich and their puppets don't want controlled immigration, they want poor desperate slaves for their corporate machine and a great fucking distraction so that they can continue unobstructed to pillage nations as the lower classes bicker about social issues and ignore the economic ones.
 
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Yeah I work for Honda state side and we have engineers and IT guys from Japan. One of our associates has lived in America for 2 years now and she loves it here. Mostly because we get Saturday and Sundays off. Holidays off, 2 week shutdowns etc. They still miss Japan but free time is still limited there.

They go to school 6 days a week, most modern to high earning jobs require you to work long hours 6 days a week. Why would you want to start a family in that environment? Japan's economy is probably a lot like ours in the fact you need both parents working to pay bills so family time would be even more limited. Hell most of the young adults in Japan probably grew up in that environment and hated it. So why would they raise another generation the same way?
 
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VN1X

Banned
It seems like everything I hear about Japan is how there's less young people than before. People can't date, get married and reproduce, thanks to the awful work conditions it's hard for people to have any free time and the population is declining day by day. It looks like peril for this place.

Will this country even be a thing 10-15 years from now?
One of the things apparently is this:

ay6gZ2O.jpg



While interesting I'm always a bit apprehensive when it comes to this sort of stuff as well as it veers into the MGTOW territory I find.
 
Yes, it could do with shrinking a bit. Too much for some women.

Also, wtf, mate? I thought this was some old thread where I'd given some uninformed opinion. But nah, you went out of your way just to try and insult me.
Insult you? I was giving a compliment for you to go out there and plow the fields. Do your honourable duty for Japan and make your soldier stand to attention!
 

Ionian

Member
One of the things apparently is this:

ay6gZ2O.jpg



While interesting I'm always a bit apprehensive when it comes to this sort of stuff as well as it veers into the MGTOW territory I find.

This sounds like bullshit to me. Have a mate in Japan. Was at his wedding to Japanese woman. Seemed the opposite.
 

Porcile

Member
One of the things apparently is this:

ay6gZ2O.jpg



While interesting I'm always a bit apprehensive when it comes to this sort of stuff as well as it veers into the MGTOW territory I find.

I remember meeting some girl on a Sunday early lunch time, and she had already screwed three different guys through Tinder since getting off from work on Friday evening LMAO.

Something always comes out the woodwork eventually with these kinds of people in Japan though, some insane backstory or heavy baggage. Every single time. I met a pretty successful businesswoman who I guess most people would consider extremely attractive, but then I later found out married young, got divorced in her 30s and then gave more than 10,000 dollars in one go to a complete stranger she was just chatting to on Skype. It is weird how desperate people become. Then again lots of people come from essentially broken homes or basically have no experience making real familial bonds because their parents were working all the time or the kids were out studying in cram schools till 10:30 pm every day. Their personal relationships end up super loose because their social group at school and work gets changed super frequently. And yeah, while they're hot, they're hot, but when the flame starts to burn out so many people end up with pretty much nothing except their fucking dogs, of course.
 
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Ionian

Member
I remember meeting some girl on a Sunday early lunch time, and she had already screwed three different guys through Tinder since getting off from work on Friday evening LMAO.

Something always comes out the woodwork eventually with these kinds of people in Japan though, some insane backstory or heavy baggage. Every single time. I met a pretty successful businesswoman who I guess most people would consider extremely attractive, but then I later found out married young, got divorced in her 30s and then gave more than 10,000 dollars in one go to a complete stranger she was just chatting to on Skype. It is weird how desperate people become. Then again lots of people come from essentially broken homes or basically have no experience making real familial bonds because their parents were working all the time or the kids were out studying in cram schools till 10:30 pm every day. Their personal relationships end up super loose because their social group at school and work gets changed super frequently. And yeah, while they're hot, they're hot, but when the flame starts to burn out so many people end up with pretty much nothing except their fucking dogs, of course.

Funnily enough, had a mate teaching English. Student (older woman) hooked up and bought him a PS2 out of nowhere (was newer at the time).

All she wanted was company. Not a boyfriend.

I couldn't believe it when he told me.
 

Doczu

Member
Something like Hungary, then:
It is an anwser, but it's not easy to get there as living costs sky rocketed in the EU (specifically in the eastern countries). I have two kids, would love to have one more but we wouldn't be able to afford it. With how our (polish) economy looks right now, the absurdly high inflation and energy prices? Good luck getting to 4 kids and not becoming poor in the process
 

Tams

Member
I've heard of Japan being a safe country, but even the sex is safer? Nice.

I'm sorry to say it isn't. Sex education in Japan is woeful.

But it's a developed country, with no religious taboos preventing condom use, etc., and people are generally cautious, so STDs aren't rampant. They are a problem though.
 

Wildebeest

Member
While interesting I'm always a bit apprehensive when it comes to this sort of stuff as well as it veers into the MGTOW territory I find.
Comes across as very opinionated and based on jumping to conclusions rather than any quality research. The way more people put it is that it is very hard to meet new friends you can trust in Japan. If you don't have a group of good friends by the time you leave school, you are fucked for life, because no stranger will let you in.
 

Doczu

Member
While interesting I'm always a bit apprehensive when it comes to this sort of stuff as well as it veers into the MGTOW territory I find.
While i'm not into mgtow or any other group i can confirm thst the same (albeit not as "developed") situation is happening in my country. And you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see that the more devloped a countey is, the more picky women stsrt to get.
And no shit, once you can support yourself - why choose just anyone? You go for the big fish, or you party your entire early adulthood without risk of getting pregnant.

Edit: but it also works both ways, the "top" of males also benefit of this situation 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
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VN1X

Banned
Being less xenophobic would be a good start.
Also work culture that emphasises repeating pointless tasks for hours.
You're talking about the rat race which is, unfortunately, prevalent in almost every westernized country these days. It's something which isn't unique to Japan (although I wouldn't argue that it's even more extreme over there).
 

Cyberpunkd

Member
You're talking about the rat race which is, unfortunately, prevalent in almost every westernized country these days. It's something which isn't unique to Japan (although I wouldn't argue that it's even more extreme over there).
Japan situation is unique to Japan, so I will disagree here. Staying in the office till after your boss leaves, emphasis on being present versus results, etc. - all these are unique to Japan or at least to Asian countries.
 

akimbo009

Gold Member
You're talking about the rat race which is, unfortunately, prevalent in almost every westernized country these days. It's something which isn't unique to Japan (although I wouldn't argue that it's even more extreme over there).
Yeah... The rigidness of japanese corporate culture is well known, and attributed - in part - to why they have struggled to address their economic stagnation. Further, it's a monolithic culture and isn't receptive to immigrantion or all that open in general to foreign investment.

All that said, Japan has had a demographic risk for a long time so this really is old news - and they are probably too late to address it without severe economic downturns. But also, this isn't just them so I dunno. It certainly hasn't animated the country in a way that puts others at risk like it has with China who is definitely reacting to the downturn as a risk to its own manifest destiny.
 

Go_Ly_Dow

Member
Many countries have that problem. But most of them can use immigration to alleviate it. Japan will do the same sooner or later in my opinion.
In my opinion, the Japanese ruling elite and perhaps even a wide portion of their society would rather see their population shrink to 80-100million Japanese than keep it propped up by immigrants who'd disrupt the cultural flow they do so much to preserve.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
In my opinion, the Japanese ruling elite and perhaps even a wide portion of their society would rather see their population shrink to 80-100million Japanese than keep it propped up by immigrants who'd disrupt the cultural flow they do so much to preserve.
Asian countries in general prefer to protect their own turf instead of be open minded. Not just immigration policies but even things like a foreigner acquiring a business can be difficult.

I dont even think it's a racism issue (maybe I'm wrong). It's just the typical iron fisted government and as you said everyone being afraid if they allow foreigners in they'll take over like a white wave of Europeans taking over. Which to me is silly because these countries have so many people and currently are so homogenous, nothing will happen unless immigrants come for maybe 500 years worth of big immigration.

It's a weird mentality because western countries seem to be fine with immigrants. Are there issues with locals or foreigners butting heads? Ya sometimes. But as a whole I think the vast majority get along and live and work together.

The offices I've worked at over 20 years are a total mix of men and women and ethnic backgrounds. Nobody gives a shit. The only time people cringe is if someone is doing a bad job not pulling their weight. If one of these mixed employee pools magically warped over to Toyota head office in Japan, they'd probably freak out there's women and minorities everywhere on the floor with high level jobs.
 
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In my opinion, the Japanese ruling elite and perhaps even a wide portion of their society would rather see their population shrink to 80-100million Japanese than keep it propped up by immigrants who'd disrupt the cultural flow they do so much to preserve.
I think the same. But then it is not a crisis if the country accept it and plan accordingly. France and I suppose other countries simply pay according to the number of children you have. And it works.
 

Tams

Member
Asian countries in general prefer to protect their own turf instead of be open minded. Not just immigration policies but even things like a foreigner acquiring a business can be difficult.

I dont even think it's a racism issue (maybe I'm wrong). It's just the typical iron fisted government and as you said everyone being afraid if they allow foreigners in they'll take over like a white wave of Europeans taking over. Which to me is silly because these countries have so many people and currently are so homogenous, nothing will happen unless immigrants come for maybe 500 years worth of big immigration.

It's a weird mentality because western countries seem to be fine with immigrants. Are there issues with locals or foreigners butting heads? Ya sometimes. But as a whole I think the vast majority get along and live and work together.

The offices I've worked at over 20 years are a total mix of men and women and ethnic backgrounds. Nobody gives a shit. The only time people cringe is if someone is doing a bad job not pulling their weight. If one of these mixed employee pools magically warped over to Toyota head office in Japan, they'd probably freak out there's women and minorities everywhere on the floor with high level jobs.
But too open immigration is a problem. More aggressive cultures start to take over some parts of society.

Not to get into ban territory, so all I'll say is look at Sweden recently. And those there open to lots of immigration have thrown up their hands and said, "How could this happen?!". The answer is right under (well above) their noses.

You see similar things happening in Austria. Australia is hardly open too. And I can tell you the UK, France, and Germany, despite in general being welcoming, have major issues with immigrants.

So, aside from their own cultural views, can you blame other countries looking at those messes and not going, "yeah, we'll have some of that too".
 
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This is my theory:

Is usually said that Japan 'lives in the future'...What if?.....they are actually evolving (dun, dun, dun!) just as many well-developed countries; population is going down. In the futute, automation is going to even more prevalent= (no need for a lot of human work force).

I heard stories about a man who marry Hatsune Miko (an holographic Waifu vocaloid) using A.I. to chat with his husbando, or how pope have a "double life" in reality and inside V.R. some even fell more fulfilled as virtual personas.

We all know smartphones have become part of us, like an extension of our body. It's clear that in distant future some kind of implementation is going to occur = transhumanism.

Sorry, I have to go...
 

Hugare

Member
Opening up to immigrants (the borders, I mean) will become inevitable

My graduation essay in college was about how immigrants can be important to boosting the european economy, since Europe is also getting old while not having enough babies

"They're stealing our jobs" will become (even more) a reality in pretty much all of Europe and Japan/Korea pretty soon

It has its pros and cons, of course. But if done right, it can do more good than harm.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Opening up to immigrants (the borders, I mean) will become inevitable

My graduation essay in college was about how immigrants can be important to boosting the european economy, since Europe is also getting old while not having enough babies

"They're stealing our jobs" will become (even more) a reality in pretty much all of Europe and Japan/Korea pretty soon

It has its pros and cons, of course. But if done right, it can do more good than harm.
All comes down to how accepting Japan is of foreigners. As some people said above, the country isnt big on foreign people. If thats the case, it'll be a slow burn for decades more.

Nobody says foreigners even have to meld into the rest of society. Then can still be productive and do their own thing. Again, it all comes down to government, businesses and locals welcoming them.

In every other place with tons of immigrants, lets face it. Some meld in, know the local language and everything is cool. Some others prefer to isolate themselves and seemingly never go beyond their ethnic neighbourhood and havent learned one page worth of English in 20 years. But they can still get by doing whatever and locals dont really give a shit. As long as they dont cause trouble, nobody cares.
 

Hugare

Member
All comes down to how accepting Japan is of foreigners. As some people said above, the country isnt big on foreign people. If thats the case, it'll be a slow burn for decades more.

Nobody says foreigners even have to meld into the rest of society. Then can still be productive and do their own thing. Again, it all comes down to government, businesses and locals welcoming them.

In every other place with tons of immigrants, lets face it. Some meld in, know the local language and everything is cool. Some others prefer to isolate themselves and seemingly never go beyond their ethnic neighbourhood and havent learned one page worth of English in 20 years. But they can still get by doing whatever and locals dont really give a shit. As long as they dont cause trouble, nobody cares.
They will have to learn how to accept foreigners. They dont have other choices.

Either this, or they will feel the consequences sooner then one may think

About immigrants that dont adapt: this usually happens in countries with refugees. Europe has accepted tons of refugees after the Syrian war and etc., but this is not a good example of what I'm proposing.

I'm proposing accepting immigrants the smart way: see if they are educated and qualified, if they know the local language and culture etc.

Otherwise you'll have a shitshow of people not speaking local language, not accepting local culture, not educated enough for qualified jobs and so on
 
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It's what unchecked capitalism does to a country. People work like slaves impossible hours so surprise surprise they have no time to do anything else, plus life is too expensive to have kids. So instead of the Japanese government legislating better wages or making it extremely illegal for these overtimes to exist they invented a bunch of pathetic social programs hoping that they'll change the dire situation. And of course they won't do it because like most governments throughout the world they're now puppets to international and domestic corporations and rich assholes.

Oh right, "unchecked capitalism", that's it. Did you learn this in university?

Why are countries like Singapore or Switzerland not in imminent danger of population collapse then? They both score much higher on indexes of capitalism and economic freedom like the 2022 Index of Economic Freedom than Japan which doesn't even make the top-10 -- in fact Japan is ranked 35. Here's a homework assignment, plot the economic freedom scores of developed nations against population rates and see what happens.

I'll save you the trouble, ask for your tuition back: you were robbed.

There are significant idiosyncratic social and cultural issues at work which are the largest sources of variation when compressing down the dimensionality of this problem. Technology is also a huge component.
 
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lachesis

Member
I love my daughter more than anything in the world, with that said, not having kids is the smartest decision you could make.

This is so true to many people in modern days.

It used to be exactly opposite - "having kids is the smartest decision you could make" not too long ago.
Having kids meant more income (labor), and being taken cared at the old age. It was basically a necessity to survive - and if someone didn't have kids, society pitied on them as some sort of big misfortune... which was true back then.

Now having kids mean to be burned with much more expense for very very long time as more and more kids fail to launch.... and there are other ways to be taken cared at the old age as long as you have money.
I, for myself, don't want to be a burden to my only child - and I'd rather submit myself into nursing home.

Thing is, we can't go back like old days. No matter how those trad-con people say - I don't think we can. Modern comfort is like giving some candy to a child. It's easy to give, but there will be some tantrum when you take it away. Unless there's definite "urgent and immediate need" to have children at each individual level, the fertility rate won't increase in any meaningful way no matter how the society beg, encourage or even threaten... because humans tend to respond to our immediate situation, and tend to flow towards the path of least resistance... and that's not having kids.

Robots and A.I. may compensate the quality of life, but I think it will just drive more people not having kids.
Oh, it will help in terms of labor shortage issues and will make our lives easier... that really doesn't have anything to do with fundametal reason to have children.
That's why all that billions of dollars they spent on promoting young couples to have kids in Japan/Korea with maternity leave and financial support, failed miserably.
It's not the money. It's the "need" and "why" to have kids on individual level, not government welfare that's lacking.
 
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Sakura

Member
It seems like everything I hear about Japan is how there's less young people than before. People can't date, get married and reproduce, thanks to the awful work conditions it's hard for people to have any free time and the population is declining day by day. It looks like peril for this place.

Will this country even be a thing 10-15 years from now?
The stories you hear are mostly bullshit. Everybody likes to talk about how Japanese work so hard, and they can't have kids, or that they aren't having sex, blah blah blah, but it's nonsense.
Yes, Japan has an older population. The median age in Japan is like, 48 years old. But... the west also has an old population. Median age in Germany for example is 47 years old.
Sure Japan might be a bit older, but ageing populations is a trend that all western countries are facing. Almost all western countries now have a median age of over 40.

Then there is the birth rates. Japan has a fertility rate of around 1.3. You need a fertility rate of 2.1 to have a stable population. It sounds bad, and it is, but it's actually pretty in line with all western nations. Greece, for example, also has a fertility rate of only 1.3, Canada's is only 1.4, and even the USA is only 1.7.

The only real difference, is that some western countries hide their low birth rates and ageing populations by overwhelming amounts of immigration (places like the US and France), while immigration isn't a huge thing in Japan.

But really, all western countries are on the same trajectory Japan is on, so if Japan wasn't going to be a country any more in 10-15 years, then other western countries would only have 25-30 years.
 

Tams

Member
All comes down to how accepting Japan is of foreigners. As some people said above, the country isnt big on foreign people. If thats the case, it'll be a slow burn for decades more.

Nobody says foreigners even have to meld into the rest of society. Then can still be productive and do their own thing. Again, it all comes down to government, businesses and locals welcoming them.

In every other place with tons of immigrants, lets face it. Some meld in, know the local language and everything is cool. Some others prefer to isolate themselves and seemingly never go beyond their ethnic neighbourhood and havent learned one page worth of English in 20 years. But they can still get by doing whatever and locals dont really give a shit. As long as they dont cause trouble, nobody cares.
Only, that's not what happens.

They set up their own communities, and those communities by law in most places have rights. They then gradually start to gain influemce and power, and to influence national governance. And some of their views can really not meld well at all.

I can see that going down particularly badly in Japan. And while it is extremely safe crime wise here, it is not beyond Japanese people to get violent.

Now, this is going to far into forbidden territory, so I'll leave it there.
 
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Porcile

Member
There are already a ton of immigrants here anyway like Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Filipinos, Nepalese, Brazilians, Russians. Just doesn't fit the image of what people think are good immigrants for Japan, I guess. At the end of the day, Japan isn't a practical or even a good place at all for non-Japanese to settle down for the rest of their lives unless they get married to a Japanese person . Which I have to imagine for people from those countries is a pretty low percentage number. 99.9% of Japanese women wouldn't even consider marrying a guy from an poor Asian country. They probably wouldn't go on a date with them. Every single non-Japanese Asian guy I know has complained about how they can't get Japanese girlfriends lol. I do know a fair number of Japanese guys who have married SE Asians and Chinese people though.

Anyway, there are lots of low income migrant workers scraping by now, but what the fuck happens to them when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore? They're a relatively new phenomenon so no one really knows what will happen to them.

Immigration isn't the answer for Japan for a myriad of reasons.
 

Tams

Member
There are already a ton of immigrants here anyway like Chinese, Vietnamese, Koreans, Filipinos, Nepalese, Brazilians, Russians. Just doesn't fit the image of what people think are good immigrants for Japan, I guess. At the end of the day, Japan isn't a practical or even a good place at all for non-Japanese to settle down for the rest of their lives unless they get married to a Japanese person . Which I have to imagine for people from those countries is a pretty low percentage number. 99.9% of Japanese women wouldn't even consider marrying a guy from an poor Asian country. They probably wouldn't go on a date with them. Every single non-Japanese Asian guy I know has complained about how they can't get Japanese girlfriends lol. I do know a fair number of Japanese guys who have married SE Asians and Chinese people though.

Anyway, there are lots of low income migrant workers scraping by now, but what the fuck happens to them when they hit retirement age and can't work anymore? They're a relatively new phenomenon so no one really knows what will happen to them.

Immigration isn't the answer for Japan for a myriad of reasons.
They get booted out back to their home countries. Though the hope is likely that they choose to go back before then.

That or live in poverty illegally (with authorities too lazy to track them down).
 
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