EDIT: shit where did frags post go heh.. well I replied anyway
Heh frag, I was trying to make a point about int vs spi in long boss battles. Mages are nice for sure.
Fragamemnon said:
You bring a mage in higher level PvE groups for:
1) Waterboy for the priest.
2) Polymorph.
3) Instant Arcane Explosion.
No question summoning water/food is great utility, I was talking about when you cannot drink. But while we are on the subject (heh), our warlocks (we have 2) don't have mana issues and our priest meds fast (spirit). And while things get messy sometimes (which is fun for me), 2 hellfires warlocks covers us AE-wise.
Non-elites just go down, I demoralize and war stomp to help what I can, but they just flat die so fast its a non issue. Multiple elite AE is easy via sunder. CC isn't that big a deal, I can tank quite a bit at once. If we aren't doing AE, main assist makes aggro a non-issue and our priest heals great. Warrior IS the cc class heh.
The mage isn't there for big solid DPS on one target. He's there to burn through the non-elite adds that come with a pull (and there can be tons, hihi lycaeum in BRD), reduce the number of elites on the pull with polymorph, and, lastly, to deal damage/snare the elite mob the group is fighting once the trash mobs from the pull are dead.
Yeah, I enjoy playing with mages when I get the chance. And poly will only become more important at 60.
Pulls stop being so clean in instances (1-2 elite pulls, etc.) after Scarlet Monastery. Mages make life a whole lot easier.
I'm familiar with multi-mob pulls. I can tank several elites (though those rock monsters in uldaman hit hard heh), and trash mobs aren't an issue. But raid mobs will probably be another story.
Rogues are still invaluable because they are the best single-target DPS *BY FAR* in the game and when dealing with 3-4 elite pulls sap'n'sheep (from the mage) makes the first part of a fight a lot easier.
I won't let a rogue sap unless he has improved sap. I haven't seen a reason to have anyone but the warrior pull, because it is far too valuable to start at the top of everything's hate list. And when a rogue saps, whether it fails or not, he has everything. That mess just ain't worth it imo. If a mage wants to sheep or a warlock or druid wants to mez after that point, thats generally not a problem.
Spirit for mages is useless because they are always casting and thus do not benefit from spirit because of the 5 sec rule-I think you are overestimating the mana costs of spells compared to endgame mana pools and mages have evocation anyway for an in-combat refill during a long fight. Int gives a larger mana pool to work with and increases spell crit rate. INT >>>>>> SPI.
I hadn't thought about crit rate, that is definately something more to consider. I'm not going to try and tell you about your class(yikes), just what I would assume to be the case. It just seems that for long battles, you are limited by your med rate. It's precisely the 5 second rule that makes spirit so nice, because you med more during your cycle (which for a priest is limited sometimes by my health). Good to know that isn't an issue for mages, but I trust our priest over anyone concerning that class. Maybe its our warlocks constantly lifetapping that demands more of him, I don't know heh.. but he's awesome.
Mages and Warlocks are somewhat interchangeable in a instance group. Soulstones are really nice and are a good tradeoff for free water. The big deal is that the warlock isn't going to be able to CC like a mage will, and the pulls will be tougher. Both can AE pretty well, but the warlock needs a bit more babysitting by the healer than the mage does because of way their AE works. You do gain, on the other hand, some good utility like anti-flee curse, stones, and a bit more survivable caster than a mage. I still prefer mages over warlocks for groups because of the better AE and polymorph, but you won't be gimped with a warlock by any means.
And poly will only become more valuable as content gets harder.. especially raid stuff.
Warriors are great to use for dps.
If you have fun that is really all that matters.. but honestly, you will never be as good at dps as a dps class because you would be way overpowered. Paper classes can do more damage because they go down fast.. you have plate, basically to take hits. If you could take hits and deal damage there would be no need for rogues, mages, warlocks, hunters, ect. That's basically why 'warrior' is sononymous with tank.. cause we take damage well. That's why they give us aggro abilities. Kinda sucks for those that want to be mean RP warrior monsters, but thats just how mmo's play.
Playing a zerk/arms warrior may be lots of fun though.. in fact I have a zerk warrior alt I level on occasion because I think it would be fun to have one and not have to respec and regear my main every time I want to dick around. Hell, I even thought it would be fun to go after all the AGI I could muster.. even if it means wearing leather armor and I'll be going full fury or fury/battle. But I don't expect to be tanking much with this toon.. nor do I expect to fill a dps role when it's time to get dirty.
