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[Vieo]

Don't you think that using P2P networks to download MP3s is stealing? I mean, you've got artists who slave to make those tracks, then here you come downloading ripped music. You didn't pay for it but you get to listen to it for free. Don't you think that's stealing?

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket, confiscate your iPod or even arrest you.

 

[Kon Tiki]

I think that all the time when I listen to the radio. Sometimes it gets to me so bad that I drive to the station and drop off bags of money.

 

[Trakball]

I don't think the marine choked hard enough.

In addition, what business of it is yours, really? People should clean up their own back yard before they go knocking on they neighbors door. Yeah yeah, I've been listening to House of Pain today - I used to have their cassette, that I bought - years ago, but I just downloaded it again. CRIMINAL!

 

[mattiewheels]

If the album's something I really end up liking, I don't think I haven't eventually bought the album.

 

[gofreak]

I think that all the time when I listen to the radio. Sometimes it gets to me so bad that I drive to the station and drop off bags of money.

Not a good analogy - they put out ads, and your listening to them is "payment".

 

[scarybore]

Don't you think that using P2P networks to download MP3s is stealing? I mean, you've got artists who slave to make those tracks, then here you come downloading ripped music. You didn't pay for it but you get to listen to it for free. Don't you think that's stealing?

Well if its music thats on P2P without the artists permission that you are downloading, then yeah it is.

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket.

I just see that as petty, they may as well arrest you for having CD-R burners, VCRs etc just because what you could do with them.

 

[alejob]

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket, confiscate your iPod or even arrest you.

But how would he know that you didn't pay for the music?

 

[Kon Tiki]

Not a good analogy - they put out ads, and your listening to them is "payment".

I understand what you are trying to say. I do not listen to ads, I change the station. Same thing with TV. Ads give me high blood pressure, I can not tolerate them anymore.

 

[hXc_thugg]

Not a good analogy - they put out ads, and your listening to them is "payment".

Hahaha, no one listens to the radio.

On-topic, I love me some stealing!

 

[Vieo]

Not a good analogy - they put out ads, and your listening to them is "payment".

Yeah. When you listen to the radio, you can record, but it's not going to be of CD quality and then theres commercials.


Edit:

Hahaha, no one listens to the radio.

On-topic, I love me some stealing!

So you admit you're stealing and you think that's ok?

 

[lexi]

you've got artists who slave to make those tracks

WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR STARVING ARTISTS

 

[Kon Tiki]

Yeah. When you listen to the radio, you can record, but it's not going to be of CD quality and then theres commercials.

Mp3 are not CD quality.

 

[MIMIC]

Yes, I'm stealing (I'm too lazy to conjure up a logical rationalization )

And ain't no cop gonna search my shit without a search warrant.

 

[Vieo]

Mp3 are not CD quality

Yeah, well to the untrained ear, there's no telling the difference.

 

[darscot]

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket, confiscate your iPod or even arrest you.

This is were you get nutty. The police are not the law they inforce the law. I may very well have bought and paid for every peace of music on the Ipod. Innocent untill proven guilty. This whole tax because you might do something wrong is bullshit.l

 

[lexi]

We Canadians pay a blanket tax on MP3 players that goes straight to the Recording Industry.

If you ask me, there's my right to download music right there.

 

[Trakball]

Hey Vieo, how do you feel about the price of music CDs for consumers?

 

[Kon Tiki]

We Canadians pay a blanket tax on MP3 players that goes straight to the Recording Industry.

If you ask me, there's my right to download music right there.

And Media. 'Cause you know the only thing to do with blank cdr and dvdr is burn mp3s!

 

[Dilbert]

1) Copyright infringement is not the same thing as theft.

2) Copyright infringement (at least to the extent that the typical individual would participate in such file sharing) is a civil offense, not a criminal one.

3) There is no way for a police officer to examine your iPod and know whether the contents were obtained legally or not. Quite frankly, if DRM ever becomes that draconian, I'm going to take up arms.

4) If it bothers your ethical sense, don't do it.

5) This is a really, REALLY stupid topic.

 

[Vieo]

Ok. So some of you admit that downloading songs you didn't pay for is stealing, but it's ok. Do you feel this way about other things? Such as downloading movies you didn't pay for or taking snapshots out of the pages of a book in a book store. Or bootleg movies. You were able to buy the Passion of Christ from a bootleger in Manhattan before the movie was even released. Do you think those cases are perfectly ok as well?

Hey Vieo, how do you feel about the price of music CDs for consumers?

I haven't really bought any albums when they first came out lately, but isn't the going rate on CDs like $14.99? I don't think thats bad.

 

[Doth Togo]

Don't you think that using P2P networks to download MP3s is stealing? I mean, you've got artists who slave to make those tracks, then here you come downloading ripped music. You didn't pay for it but you get to listen to it for free. Don't you think that's stealing?

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket, confiscate your iPod or even arrest you.

It happens all the time in certain cities in North America as the IP content industries have thoroughly educated law enforcement to identify hard goods pirate products.

 

[Trakball]

I haven't really bought any albums when they first came out lately, but isn't the going rate on CDs like $14.99? I don't think thats bad.

You don't think it's unfair to the consumer that

- a CD that costs .01 to produce should have a +1300% mark-up? (and before you go and whine about how many people have to be paid out of that $14.99, go do a google search on the story of how much the members of A Tribe Called Quest received for their platinum-selling "The Low End Theory" album. Here's a hint: the three members received less than $40k a piece. I want you to go look at how much the label took)

- a CD is about $5 less than a DVD?

 

[Manics]

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket, confiscate your iPod or even arrest you.

That's funny. How the hell is the cop supposed to tell which music on your iPod you legally bought and which you just downloaded? I can buy a CD, rip it with iTunes and load it into my iPod -- how do you know it's legal/not legal by just looking at the iPod?

 

[Ecrofirt]

It happens all the time in certain cities in North America as the IP content industries have thoroughly educated law enforcement to identify hard goods pirate products.

Doth, please answer Manics' question. I'm very interested.

 

[Trakball]

"IP content industries" - that's bone-chilling.

 

[Vieo]

You don't think it's unfair to the consumer that

- a CD that costs .01 to produce should have a +1300% mark-up? (and before you go and whine about how many people have to be paid out of that $14.99, go do a google search on the story of how much the members of A Tribe Called Quest received for their platinum-selling "The Low End Theory" album. Here's a hint: the three members received less than $40k a piece. I want you to go look at how much the label took)

- a CD is about $5 less than a DVD?

I can't find that google article, but I'll assume what you say is true. Some where along the line it could be said that a lot of people are overpaid.

But if CDs are indeed overpriced, does that make downloading tunes you refuse to pay for any more right?

 

[Trakball]

I can't find that google article, but I'll assume what you say is true. Some where along the line it could be said that a lot of people are overpaid.

Should cops give these overpaid people tickets, too?

But if CDs are indeed overpriced, does that make downloading tunes you refuse to pay for any more right?

Well, if I'm "refusing to pay for them", who am I taking money from? I wasn't going to buy them in the first place!

 

[jenov4]

WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE POOR STARVING ARTISTS

Exactly! Those jumbo jets, ferrari's and bowling alleys won't pay for themselves.

 

[Vieo]

Should cops give these overpaid people tickets, too?

No. Since when is being overpaid a crime?

Back in the old days, like every thing else, occupations made less. I'm pretty sure in his day, Babe Ruth didn't make as much money playing baseball as the MBL's crappiest player today. The cast of Gilliang's Island were paid next to nil but it's still one of the most popular shows. Didn't Sienfeld and Friends eventually pull in $1 million per episode?
To some people that's ridiculous, but shouldn't a performer be allowed demand more money if someone else in the same occupation is getting paid more?

Well, if I'm "refusing to pay for them", who am I taking money from? I wasn't going to buy them in the first place!

You're in the mall and you say to yourself "Hmm. I think I will pick up Kenny Roger's new album.". You head over to Sam Goody, you go inside and get to the CD rack. Upon getting there, you see a large $14.99 sticker on album's case. Then you say to yourself "On second thought, I could probably download it off kazaa. Sorry Kenny.", put the CD back, then leave the store.

That's money out of Kenny's pocket right there! =P

 

[Trakball]

No. Since when is being overpaid a crime?

Smartass answer #1: Ever hear of racketeering?
Smartass answer #2: Around the same time downloading music became a crime.

The fact that you're using Kenny "Barona" Rogers as an example is making me wonder what kinda dude I'm arguing with.

 

[Vieo]

Mmm... Philosophy Ethics homework complete. Thanks guys. Now onto physics.

 

[Doth Togo]

That's funny. How the hell is the cop supposed to tell which music on your iPod you legally bought and which you just downloaded? I can buy a CD, rip it with iTunes and load it into my iPod -- how do you know it's legal/not legal by just looking at the iPod?

It's a case by case situation. If it looks like pirate product, they ask. If you lie, well, that's up to you. Should you get caught lying, your ass now belongs to Bubba. Yes, it's happened many times. Chicago, LA...

If they know the product is pirate, they don't have to ask. They can arrest you on site. Generally, other charges are tacked on as well.

 

[Trakball]

Doth Togo, you're not even talking about the same thing the rest of us are. How is someone - you, a cop, God, the RIAA - going to look at my iPod and tell me that I didn't pay for the music that's on there?

Mmm... Philosophy Ethics homework complete. Thanks guys. Now onto physics.

Victoly!

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I've always wondered how something that can be endlessly propagated could be stolen.

 

[Doth Togo]

Doth Togo, you're not even talking about the same thing the rest of us are. How is someone - you, a cop, God, the RIAA - going to look at my iPod and tell me that I didn't pay for the music that's on there?

You're right, I'm not talking about the iPod. I'm talking about dumbasses who drive thru town with blank CDs in their cars with marker writing on them.

 

[Trakball]

You're right, I'm not talking about the iPod. I'm talking about dumbasses who drive thru town with blank CDs in their cars with marker writing on them.

I don't want to damage the $35 Bjork import I bought for one song, so I burn it to aanother disc and write "Bjork - the fuck the consumer mix". Are you going to put me in jail?

 

[Doth Togo]

I don't want to damage the $35 Bjork import I bought for one song, so I burn it to aanother disc and write "Bjork - the fuck the consumer mix". Are you going to put me in jail?

I don't represent the music industry. I'm talking about games.

But...

If you're speeding, you get pulled, you get a ticket, the cop (if they're smart and have been properly trained) may ask you... Do you get my point? It's not a direct pull over, but noticing things inside the car can lead to a heap of trouble for the suspect.

 

[scorcho]

IMO, if you have an iPod and a cop pulls you over while driving to search your car, if he sees copyright protected music on your mp3 player, he should be able to give you a ticket, confiscate your iPod or even arrest you.

aw crap! people don't convert their cds into mp3/acc format for their iPod or personal music player of choice! god damned logic, out with you! Best Buy should set up a sting and arrest anyone who buys an mp3 player.

 

[Trakball]

I don't represent the music industry. I'm talking about games.

Who in this thread is talking about games, though, man? You really scaring the shit out of me. Not as much as...

If you're speeding, you get pulled, you get a ticket, the cop (if they're smart and have been properly trained) may ask you...

Wait, a cop doesn't have enough to do without having to see if the dude doing 70 in a 55 has illegal music? That's unbelievable.

 

[alejob]

You don't think it's unfair to the consumer that

- a CD that costs .01 to produce should have a +1300% mark-up?

Dude don't ask this guy for advise on the physics homework. His math is not very good. The only thing that saves his ass is the "+" sign.

 

[Trakball]

Dude don't ask this guy for advise on the physics homework. His math is not very good. The only thing that saves his ass is the "+" sign.

Math isn't really my forte, and if I saved my ass, what's the use in bringing it up?

 

[alejob]

Because you were waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy off! 1300% of .01 = 0.13!

See what I mean?
Don't get mad though, everyone screws up once in a while

 

[Ryck]

This thread is stupid.

 

[Trakball]

This thread is stupid.

Good thing you came in here to save it, then!

 

[Dilbert]

This thread IS stupid. Maybe I should have just locked it to begin with...?

 

[Trakball]

This thread IS stupid. Maybe I should have just locked it to begin with...?

That's not very condusive to conversation, though. I really would like a response from Doth.

 

[Dilbert]

That's not very condusive to conversation, though. I really would like a response from Doth.

Oh, I agree. I'm still waiting for Vieo to show any evidence whatsoever that he read MY post.

Doth switched topics from "pirated MP3s on your iPod" to "copies of CDs" without telling anyone. He didn't even specify which kinds of CDs, but I'm guessing he means game CDs from context.

I know for a fact that it's legal to make CD-R copies of CDs you own, or of music you paid for and downloaded, and there is no WAY that you can look at a copied CD-R and know from looking at it whether or not it's a legal copy. I also strongly suspect (though I'm not as familiar with the case law) that making backup copies of software, including games, for your own archival purposes is also legal.

So yeah, I'd also love for him to get back on topic and explain exactly how that cop would KNOW the CD-R was legal or illegal just by looking. Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.

 

[Ryck]

Good thing you came in here to save it, then!

Oh wow, you win *bows down* happy?

 

[Hitokage]

jinx: Presumption of guilt is the latest trend in IP law.

 

[Matlock]

At this rate, I'll be gunned down for buying a spindle of CD-R's at Target.