-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
When you make stupid threads, do you tell yourself 'I'm not an idiot...no, really?"
- Thread starter Vieo
- Start date
- Status
-jinx- said:
Exactly.
It scares me that someone who works for "IP Content Industries" would be so misinformed or so totally draconian.
-jinx- said:
Canada? I'm not even joking. I would say "contact your Senator", but how clueless are they when it comes to this sort of thing? At least in Canada you can pay your pirate tax and be done with it.
Ryck said:
I'm not trying to "win" anything, I just wish people wouldn't come into threads without something constructive to say.
-jinx- said:
U.S. Copyright laws permit making a "backup" copy of computer programs for archival purposes. However, the right to make backup copies of computer programs for archival purposes, as embodied in 17 U.S.C. Section 117(2), does not in any way authorize the owner of a copy of a video or computer game to post or download a copy of that game to or from the Internet. Section 117(2) only gives the owner of the copy a right to make an archival copy of the actual copy that he/she legally possesses, not to make a copy of the ROM that someone else legally possesses, nor to post an archival copy of his/her original copy for distribution. Also, there is not an unfettered right to sell "backup" copies. In fact, Section 117 is quite explicit in stating that any archival copy prepared under Section 117(2) can only be transferred to another person if, and only if: A) The original copy is also transferred, and only with the authorization of the copyright owner, and B) The transfer is part of the sale of all rights in the program.
But...but...isn't it OK to copy games that are no longer distributed in the stores or commercially exploited?
No, the current availability of a game in stores is irrelevant to its copyright status. Unlike trademarks, copyrights are not considered abandoned if they are no longer enforced. Copyrights do not enter the public domain just because they are no longer commercially exploited or widely available. Therefore, the copyrights of games are valid even if the games are not found on store shelves, and copying or distributing those games is a copyright infringement.
Haven't the copyrights for old games (like Atari & Commodore) expired?
U.S. copyright laws state that copyrights owned by corporations are valid for 95 years from the date of first publication. Because video & computer games have been around for less than three decades, the copyrights of all video and computer programs will not expire for many decades to come.
Don't programmers use emulators during the development process of a game?
Yes, some programmers do use emulators to create games. However, programmers who are properly licensed to create games for a game console do so with the permission of the affected copyright owners. These authorized programmers, who often use specialized hardware emulators, create new, properly licensed video games with the authorization of the copyright owner. However, a very different situation is presented when someone uses the proprietary code in a game console without the copyright owner's permission. In fact, most emulators that are freely available today are merely software emulators that have no role in the creation of properly licensed video games; these emulators have the exclusive purpose of infringing copyrights and are illegal.
Aren't emulators programs that somebody has created and decided to distribute freely? What's wrong with that?
While some emulators are made by hobbyist programmers, that does not mean that they are legal. If the sole purpose of an emulator is to allow the playing of a console game on a PC, and the owner of the copyrights in that console game has not authorized the copying, performance, display, or derivative work created when a console game is played on a PC, then the creation and use of that emulator constitutes an infringement of the copyrights in the console game.
People making emulators and ROMs are helping publishers by making old games available that are no longer being sold by the copyright owner. This does not hurt anyone and allows gamers to play old favorites. What's the problem?
The problem is that it's illegal to make or distribute software or hardware emulators or ROMs without the copyright or trademark owners' permission. Moreover, copyrights and trademarks of games are corporate assets that are sometimes sold from one company to another. The recent sale of the Atari games library to Hasbro Interactive is an example of such a transaction. But if these vintage titles are available far and wide, it undermines the value of this intellectual property and adversely affects the copyright owner.
In addition, the assumption that the only games involved are vintage or nostalgia games is incorrect. In fact, there are now more and more programs available that emulate current game systems such as the Nintendo 64 and the PlayStation. In other words, emulator/ROM piracy is affecting games that are still on the market.
Finally, in the current highly competitive market, a top quality game costs $1.5 million or more to develop, and double or triple that to market. Software publishers must generate a meaningful return on their investments in this intellectual property if they are to continue to meet the growing demand for technologically advanced products. The suggestion that some piracy is benign undermines respect for the intellectual property rights on which software companies are built. Piracy of any kind on any scale erodes this foundation.
But, hey, what gives you the right to enforce United States copyrights outside of the U.S.?
U.S. copyrights are protected and enforceable in over 100 countries that have signed the Berne Convention, the TRIPs Agreement and/or have entered into in bilateral accords with the U.S. The Berne Convention and TRIPs Agreement set international standards for the protection of intellectual property rights. Therefore, a game from a U.S. publisher is automatically protected in most countries and we have every right to enforce our copyrights under local laws.
Trakball said:
I am. It relates to IP law just as music piracy relates to IP law. Similar decisions that were made regarding the legality of pirate games also relates to pirate music, be it on the Internet, on a blank CD or on your iPod. So, take some of the thoughts I've provided in this thread and apply them to music. I'm not trying to fight with you, Trakball. I'm trying to answer questions.
Doth Togo said:
None of the things you've said in this thread have made any sense. You're not trying to answer questions, you're merely towing the company line.
It infuriates me that someone like you (and I don't mean personally, I mean based on the responses that you've made in this thread) would be involved in enforcing the kind of policies that you can't even really make yourself clear about. I fear for law-abiding citizens everywhere.
Ok, if you think I've been unclear, ask me about backups. Toss out the fluff, and ask the bottom line question.
Music backups? If you make them, don't tell anyone. Sure, everyone makes an occasional backup CD. SBL is hard to find these days; of course I made one. If you sell them, it's breaking the law. You'd typically find people selling pirate music CDs at flea markets, small shops, online, etc.
How can a cop find out you have pirate music? Typically, they seize the evidence from your car. Something like an iPod wouldn't be used as evidence, but I suspect the forensics department would take a look at it because you can also use it to transfer other digital media. Use your imagination on that, as I know you don't want to talk about games in this thread. If a piece of digital media is found "outside of the scope of where it was made or what it was made for..." like finding a digital movie on an iPod, yes, that would be used as evidence in court against you.
Does that answer your question?
Music backups? If you make them, don't tell anyone. Sure, everyone makes an occasional backup CD. SBL is hard to find these days; of course I made one. If you sell them, it's breaking the law. You'd typically find people selling pirate music CDs at flea markets, small shops, online, etc.
How can a cop find out you have pirate music? Typically, they seize the evidence from your car. Something like an iPod wouldn't be used as evidence, but I suspect the forensics department would take a look at it because you can also use it to transfer other digital media. Use your imagination on that, as I know you don't want to talk about games in this thread. If a piece of digital media is found "outside of the scope of where it was made or what it was made for..." like finding a digital movie on an iPod, yes, that would be used as evidence in court against you.
Does that answer your question?
Hitokage said:
Hey... Nobody's on your case; no personal attacks, ok? It makes for a less heated discussion.
You are correct. There is a long list of things that they look for in their searches. If you were smoking weed or committed some other obvious violation, they'd seize everything and take a look at it. They would seize your iPod, but most likely it would get tossed of evidence out unless they found non-related music items. Just like with any other computer seizure, they'd contact the respective IP owners or representatives and ask if the product was meant to be on the iPod.
The police/court generally works off of a criteria system, slowly removing lesser violations to come to some sort of a plea with the defendant.
Sorry, it's stuff like this that made me ask. It's not up to THEM to determine whether or not you can have something on your ipod. Furthermore, the presumtion that anything on an ipod must be illegal is complete bullshit. I could have copied my CD collection to it and it'd be perfectly legal. Stop trying to make criminals out of such people.
Could you imagine though, if everyone with a digital storage unit or blank CD-R was hassled? Why, there would be no time for the War on Terror! Or the War on Drugs! Or "No Child Left Behind!"
Now I'm going off topic. I swear, this thread has made me an even more incredibly bitter person.
Now I'm going off topic. I swear, this thread has made me an even more incredibly bitter person.
- Status