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Where to start with Gundam

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Wing is over the top and derivative of UC MSG but it’s a blast.


Unicorn is fucking awful. lol.
I’m watching it now and it is…not good. The whole plot centers around a MacGuffin that the entire world knows Matters More Than Anything, definitively, for some reason, without knowing a single thing about it. So we have a wild goose chase with basically no new information revealed as of 6 hours in, as a lazy and unjustified way to keep a series of uninteresting events moving forward.

And one of the worst MCs in Gundam history, a crybaby with naive idealism cranked to 11 and no willingness to fight, in a wildly overpowered — basically invulnerable — suit so he can get away with it.

Battle scenes that have a lot of stuff blowing up with poorly defined motivations and poorly defined sides, mostly not even showing who’s fighting, just a ton of shots of gratuitously melting mechs back and forth.

Art direction is that flat unshaded CG laden style from the 2000s, one of my least favorite periods for anime art.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
Unicorn is fucking awful. lol.
I disagree. There is quite a bit I like about it:

Pros:
- The soundtrack is astounding
- I enjoy the characters. Yes, Banagher is a bit navel-gazey, but I still enjoy characters like Mineva, Marida, Zimmerman. And I like the idea of Full Frontal (dumb name) but feel they could have explained him more.
- Great animation and action set pieces
- I enjoy the retrospective feel it has on UC. Though it does seem weird that they refer to stuff like Char's Counterattack like it's the distant past, when it was only 3 years before.

Cons
-
The reveal of what Laplace's Box was stupid. No government document would ever say "If x happens, then..." There had to be a better phrase of how to handle it. Took me out of it to a large degree since it's such an important aspect of the show.
 
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I’m watching it now and it is…not good. The whole plot centers around a MacGuffin that the entire world knows Matters More Than Anything, definitively, for some reason, without knowing a single thing about it. So we have a wild goose chase with basically no new information revealed as of 6 hours in, as a lazy and unjustified way to keep a series of uninteresting events moving forward.

And one of the worst MCs in Gundam history, a crybaby with naive idealism cranked to 11 and no willingness to fight, in a wildly overpowered — basically invulnerable — suit so he can get away with it.

Battle scenes that have a lot of stuff blowing up with poorly defined motivations and poorly defined sides, mostly not even showing who’s fighting, just a ton of shots of gratuitously melting mechs back and forth.

Art direction is that flat unshaded CG laden style from the 2000s, one of my least favorite periods for anime art.
Havings dibs on the plot lines that were never finished up in ZZ and completely ruining them was just outright offensive along with half the script being the word "Laplace Box." I was HYPED to watch it for the HxH 1999 director being the driving force, Sawano OST before he got huge, Sunrise dumping money into the project. It's borderline an insult to UC. I've never seen Gundam NT on principle but Hathaway's Flash will be good based off the novel.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
Havings dibs on the plot lines that were never finished up in ZZ and completely ruining them was just outright offensive along with half the script being the word "Laplace Box." I was HYPED to watch it for the HxH 1999 director being the driving force, Sawano OST before he got huge, Sunrise dumping money into the project. It's borderline an insult to UC. I've never seen Gundam NT on principle but Hathaway's Flash will be good based off the novel.
NT isnt good.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Havings dibs on the plot lines that were never finished up in ZZ and completely ruining them was just outright offensive along with half the script being the word "Laplace Box." I was HYPED to watch it for the HxH 1999 director being the driving force, Sawano OST before he got huge, Sunrise dumping money into the project. It's borderline an insult to UC. I've never seen Gundam NT on principle but Hathaway's Flash will be good based off the novel.
The script really undermines it overall. Kazuhiro Furuhashi is still a legend for stuff like HxH 1999 and Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal, but he has a lot of misfires too.

Not sure why everyone in Japan loves Unicorn tbh.

HgjpWie.jpeg


A lot better than Seed Destiny at least…
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
As much as I am a UC timeline Puritan and agree with everyone suggesting these I want to also shout out the aim at kids show, especially the first season Gundam Build Fighters.

It's really fun and is just a love letter to Gundam in general, although if it's your first you miss out on some big references.

What makes it semi important is that the best games of the Gundam Franchise are linked to this world.



Comes out the end of this month, so if your intrested in a solid Gundam game then Build fighters is a good anime to watch as it directly relates.

Speaking of Gundam games did anyone play the SD Gundam Battle Alliance? I was shocked how good the story was in that game, there where surprisingly emotional scenes for characters in that.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
The script really undermines it overall. Kazuhiro Furuhashi is still a legend for stuff like HxH 1999 and Rurouni Kenshin: Trust & Betrayal, but he has a lot of misfires too.

Not sure why everyone in Japan loves Unicorn tbh.

HgjpWie.jpeg


A lot better than Seed Destiny at least…
Any idea how recent that poll is? I'd be interested in seeing if Seed got a bump from its recent movie.
 
Not sure why everyone in Japan loves Unicorn tbh.

I'm guessing it has something to do with it being a celebration piece for the UC timeline and it has a lot of call backs to older UC series. plus the production value is definitely there and the designs are fire. the story might not be prefect, but it kinda calls back to the whole "young man forced to pilot a MS under a bad situation and finding his way in life and war." theme from the original. and mix in with a little romance, of course people would eat it up.
 
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Paltheos

Member
Going through the topic, I'm clearly not the biggest Gundam aficionado on GAF but I've still watched a fair sum. I'll give my thoughts too:

Mobile Suit Gundam (43 episode TV series) - Good war story/coming of age story. Rewatched this with a friend who'd never seen it before a couple years ago. He was pretty onboard with everything up until the end. He was not a fan of hippie, space magic.

Zeta Gundam (50 episode TV series) - Tomino unleashed, in the worst way possible. There's a stiffness and melodrama that permeates this series that I largely hold responsible for making most UC pretty bad. I could not connect to the cast. As other have said, the beginning is rough, and presenting the lead unintentionally as a total fucking lunatic does not help.

ZZ Gundam (50 episode TV series) - Really mixed. The first third of the series consists of wacky hijinx which don't land at all imo. Series shifts gears completely after that and becomes much better. Elpe Puru is adorable and my favorite Gundam side character.

Char's Counterattack (movie) - Boring and awful, except the ending. We don't need the Quess plotline. Nobody cares; that's not why we're here. The finale is spectacular. TBH, you could just read a summary of the start of the movie and watch the final battle and get everything out of this movie it has to offer. To be clear, the final battle is really worth it, even if you decide to suffer through the rest of the movie.

0080: War in the Pocket (6 episode OVA) - Solid side story. Lighter on the action and more down-to-earth.

Gundam F91 (movie) - Unintelligible. It's a TV series crunched into a single movie and the jumps from location to location are sometimes impossible to follow. Looks good though.

0083: Stardust Memory (13 episode OVA) - Attractive side story. Traditional rookie->ace setup although ultimately Kou's kind of a loser and the plot falls to pieces by the end. Famously looks amazing though. Maybe peak of hand-drawn Gundam.

G Gundam (49 episode TV series) - Super robot fighting. Some people swear by it. I can see it. It's very hot-blooded. Didn't land for me personally (in the way other hot-blooded series have). It gets tedious imo.

Gundam Wing (49 episode TV series) - Lives off the memes tbh. The characters are less people and more props for whatever ideal or worldview leaves their lips. Simultaneously though, the show tries treating them real people. The result is cute. You can't help but admire Wing for trying to have its cake and eat it too when it's so obvious what it's doing. Mech design is also really solid. Everybody loves Wing mechs.

08th MS Team (12 episode OVA) - Side story following grunts. Earns its rep as good imo.

After War Gundam X (39 episode TV series) - One of very few series I think is underappreciated (and largely not underrated). Sure, the production was a mess, the bishonen (sub)villain duo never stop being lame, and much of the mech design look like past series rejects, but the core cast is rock solid, the plot stays fun most of the way through, and the main mechs look good. The Gundam X in particular is my favorite protag Gundam - A perfect mix of cool and plausability for the universe (I understand the practical limits of a moon cannon and am willing to accept it).

Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz (movie) - More of the same but prettier. Katoki mech redesigns are a mixed bag. I generally prefer the blockier TV show designs, especially for the Wing Zero, but some of them like Nataku look much sleaker (Nataku TV is hilariously awful). Incidentally, the battle before orbital re-entry is practically worth the ticket price. The best Wing-style drama there is to offer with banging music and fantastic visuals.

Gundam SEED (50 episode TV series) - Big thumbs up from me. Some longer series like this tend to drag, but SEED uses its episode count to build a great cast and to let so many scenes sit and breathe (with its also fantastic score). Mecha design is great although some don't like the elaborate and/or backpack-heavy designs. A fair chunk of reused animation is a fair criticism but enough about SEED lands that I can let it slide. The final third slips a little when it seems the production realized they needed to wrap things up and the plot felt warped a long but the series conclusion is so good and the last act is still entertaining enough that again it's cool with me.

Gundam SEED Destiny (50 episode TV series) - Famously collapses in on itself. I won't drone on about the many ways Destiny (comes to) suck.

Gundam SEED Stargazer (3 episode ONA) - Pretty cool short story. Capitalizes on SEED Destiny plot points better than SEED Destiny. Shocker.

Gundam 00 (50 episode TV series) - Pretty neat, I guess. I wasn't as engaged by the main plot as many others were and actually enjoyed the more off-the-rails second half. Kenji Kawai is a good composer! 00 is my earliest memory of the obnoxious trend of characters constantly calling each other by their full names. Never forget that time Allelujah blew up a hospital full of orphans as a heroic act.

Gundam Unicorn (7 episode OVA) - Wherein production identifed the elements of UC that fans supposedly like the most and made an entire, boring series about it. I remember one moment of real interest and humanity in this whole show, and that's when Mineva was talking to some restaurant manager in some misc. episode (although it's been long enough I don't remember why I liked it). The rest of this show is dolled up Zeta-style UC.

Gundam 00: A Wakening of the Trailblazer (movie) - 00 but just kinda worse and I think most people agree. The scenario is incredibly dumb and that's... fine if you just want to see more 00-style action I guess.

Gundam: The Origin (6 episode OVA) - Landed for me as a background story. I liked and like a lot of these characters.

Iron-Blooded Orphans (50 episode TV series) - Another thumbs up from me but not without its asterisks. I like the idea of downtrodden, ex-slaves forming their own PMC while political intrigue takes place in the background. I like the directions the show goes in and the developments near the end of the first half (losing their moral center when Biscuit dies and wondering where the group will go from there) but the second half takes way too long to go places with it. A lot of those second season episodes are forgettable and awful slogs that didn't need to exist. Series might have been better a little shorter or better constructed to arrive at the inevitable conclusion.

Gundam Thunderbolt: December Sky (4 episode ONA) - Fantastic. So broadly good too that it has actual legs for normie appeal imo. Solid direction, art, animation, and a cool sound motif too. Predictably tragic and it's no less entertaining for it beause it's told so well.

Gundam Thunderbolt: Bandit Flower (4 episode ONA) - Incredibly boring and such a disappointing follow-up to December Sky but thankfully you can pretend it doesn't exist since December Sky stands on its own.

The Witch from Mercury (24 episode TV series) - I watched this whole show this week, actually! (in part spurned on by this topic to try it again) "Mid" seems about right. I agree with a lot of assessments that the show doesn't go full-throttle enough, on both its ideas and general plotting. The hardest hit was probably the brake slam after episode 12 which was a legit good episode. How did the series just go back to the school again after that? The yuri bait from production is obvious to everyone but even the simple friendship angle between Suletta and Mio which the show really does want to sell doesn't really fly - the two have like one scene of genuine bonding before the show tries telling us they're totally close, when really their relationship is Mio just using and abusing Suletta at her pleasure for most of the runtime. Best parts of the show play off the characters - like how Mio is constantly full of bravado but always jumps into situations completely unprepared. Prospera's my favorite character. I don't know why Quiet Zero is actually bad, outside of the obviously terrible optics of allowing a practically immortal child ultimate authority over 99% of the world's tech. Hey, she wasn't gonna kill anyone until they fired first!

Gundam SEED Freedom (movie) - Very clearly made by people who both know and love Gundam SEED. I already wrote a big post back in May detailing my thoughts, but to sum it up, production knew SEED Destiny's faults and simultaneously tried to make a fun time in a sequel, and they largely succeeded imo. It's still bad - make no mistake - but it's securely in 'it's so bad it's good' and 'they know' territory, dunking on SEED Destiny while not being obnoxious and mean-spirited about it.

Favorites:

1) Gundam Thunderbolt: December Sky
2) Gundam SEED
3) Gundam X
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
Man, I forgot about Thunderbolt. What an insane series. I still need to watch Thunderbolt 2.

I find it interesting you hate Zeta for its melodrama, but love Seed.
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
After Unicorn left a bad taste in my mouth with its awful protagonist, clumsy attempts at retconning, MacGuffin obsession, Full Frontal, etc., I jumped into the F91 movie as a palate cleanse. Now that's the stuff. Absolutely brilliant and harrowing opening act showing the casual uncaring tragedy of war, and even though it has some problems due to compressing the storyline down from its original plan, I enjoyed it a lot for what it was. Beautiful animation, good characters, classic Gundam. Maybe they'll circle back to the storyline some day with an OVA or TV series. Or adapt the Crossbone manga.

Then shifted over to Witch from Mercury. Great prologue so I had high hopes, but things quickly turned into a...yuri slice of life high school show? But still engaging enough with some fun battles and intrigue so I stuck with it. Unfortunately while I thought it was picking up steam in the middle and headed places, it did not nail the final act and felt rushed and unearned by the end, with a lot of nonsensical resolutions. There was a big opportunity there to explore Suletta's brainwashed mental state, the dystopian corporate ownership of society, and many other interesting elements, but nothing really came of any of it. Guel had a good arc though and it was okay overall.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
After Unicorn left a bad taste in my mouth with its awful protagonist, clumsy attempts at retconning, MacGuffin obsession, Full Frontal, etc., I jumped into the F91 movie as a palate cleanse. Now that's the stuff. Absolutely brilliant and harrowing opening act showing the casual uncaring tragedy of war, and even though it has some problems due to compressing the storyline down from its original plan, I enjoyed it a lot for what it was. Beautiful animation, good characters, classic Gundam. Maybe they'll circle back to the storyline some day with an OVA or TV series. Or adapt the Crossbone manga.

Then shifted over to Witch from Mercury. Great prologue so I had high hopes, but things quickly turned into a...yuri slice of life high school show? But still engaging enough with some fun battles and intrigue so I stuck with it. Unfortunately while I thought it was picking up steam in the middle and headed places, it did not nail the final act and felt rushed and unearned by the end, with a lot of nonsensical resolutions. There was a big opportunity there to explore Suletta's brainwashed mental state, the dystopian corporate ownership of society, and many other interesting elements, but nothing really came of any of it. Guel had a good arc though and it was okay overall.
A few weeks ago I double featured CCA and F91 for ole times sake. I really wish they hadnt abandoned UC 0120 era. Its pretty cool to me. The montage where Meitzer Ronah arrives is so good. Eternal Wind is great.

First 30 minutes or so are perfect. Only topped by a similar scene in Hathaway.

I also dodnt care for Witch from Mercury. High school corporate politicks dont interest me. I also didnt like Suletta.

Some banger ED themes though
 
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EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
A few weeks ago I double featured CCA and F91 for ole times sake. I really wish they hadnt abandoned UC 0120 era. Its pretty cool to me. The montage where Meitzer Ronah arrives is so good. Eternal Wind is great.

First 30 minutes or so are perfect. Only topped by a similar scene in Hathaway.

I also dodnt care for Witch from Mercury. High school corporate politicks dont interest me. I also didnt like Suletta.

Some banger ED themes though
Concur. And yeah, some of those WFM end of episode transitions to the ED themes were excellent.

At least WFM was a short series for a main line run and they have some cool sounding next projects in the works, like a second Hathaway movie.
 
The three Mobile Suit Gundam compilation films are a great starting point, but only if you're okay with sub. The English dub of the films is terrible (sadly was never redubbed by Ocean Group like the TV series was) and not easily accessible besides. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of "stand-alone" works that take place in the same Universal Century timeline as MSG, but I still think it's good to have watched the original for context.

Outside of the UC timeline, Gundam 00 is a good one, especially the first season.
 
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Heimdall_Xtreme

Jim Ryan Fanclub's #1 Member
I got a kick out of this random article on Siliconera that was posted the other day.

Wow, this writer entered my mind.. It's just what I think of the mediocre Seed freedom. And I'm not a Gundam fan.
 
At least WFM was a short series for a main line run and they have some cool sounding next projects in the works, like a second Hathaway movie.

Sunrise's whole handling of the adaptations for Gundam manga over the last decade has been friggin weird. There was absolutely a market for a full adaptation of Origin, but they only ended up doing the Char flashback. They did two seasons of Thunderbolt in 2016/2017 and then...just kind of stopped? The first of the Hathaway trilogy was in 2021 and we've heard basically nothing about when the second one's coming.
 

NecrosaroIII

Ultimate DQ Fan
Sunrise's whole handling of the adaptations for Gundam manga over the last decade has been friggin weird. There was absolutely a market for a full adaptation of Origin, but they only ended up doing the Char flashback. They did two seasons of Thunderbolt in 2016/2017 and then...just kind of stopped? The first of the Hathaway trilogy was in 2021 and we've heard basically nothing about when the second one's coming.
Covid impact Hathaway 2, but its happening. Last wor i heard was "before the 2028 olympics"
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Sunrise's whole handling of the adaptations for Gundam manga over the last decade has been friggin weird. There was absolutely a market for a full adaptation of Origin, but they only ended up doing the Char flashback. They did two seasons of Thunderbolt in 2016/2017 and then...just kind of stopped? The first of the Hathaway trilogy was in 2021 and we've heard basically nothing about when the second one's coming.
Japan was pretty messed up by Covid, going isolationist and being severely restrictive for around three years. So I'm sure that affected the production of Hathaway 2. Last I heard it's still actively in the works.

As for Origin, it would've been fun to see a full adaptation there but they likely feel they'd be treading on sacred ground by retelling the events of MSG. I do appreciate how the classic material is respected and treated with care.

My main ask would be to adapt the Crossbone manga to continue the story of F91. Beltorchika's Children would be cool too but that might run into the same issue as The Origin.
 

Doczu

Member
So a few of you mentioned the trilogy films. Did a bit digging and they were once available on youtube, but not anymore (can't find them). Is there a legal way to watch them?
 

Doczu

Member
They are actually on rotation right now on GundamInfo, an officially licensed channel.


Enjoy!
How could i miss it. At first i thought they may just be unavailablecin my country due to licensing, but no. Right in front of me.

Thanks, gonna have a nice rainy sunday!
 
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