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[Panajev2001a]

I mean, back when PlayStation 2 launched I was then able to wait about a year after the Xbox 1 launched to get one (and mainly thanks to a price-drop) and when I got the Dreamcast was after a major price-drop and it was still far from its launch date. The GameCube arrived at launch mainly thanks to it being a gift (funny story behind the concept of "gifts"...) although when I came back here I bought one for myself as I had accumulated enough interesting games for it to make it a good purchase decision.

This generation though... I am simply... wowed... amazed by how much have the hardware manufactured stepped up to the challenge. Each is showing to have matured and addressed MANY of the problems the previous generations had.

I never pre-ordered a HOME console (did so for the GBA and for the DS and in a way for the PSP [thanks DCharlie ]), heck I did not even get PlayStation 2 at launch and had to wait until it was re-stocked again in a Circuit City store near Christmas, but this time I cannot help it. I wanted to get one console and then wait until the others went down in price. I thought I could wait until PLAYSTATION 3 was released. I cannot do that. The tech whore in me would scream bloody murder and the gamer would too.

I guess I am writing this again because I want to tell people: look if money is the problem (I recognize people have lives and responsibilities) I understand, but if you are a gamer or a technology+games enthusiast and can afford to spend money on this ahem "hobby" well... staying exclusive to one console is madness.

It is like passing from 8 bits graphics to 16 bits graphics, from 32 bits consoles to the current generation, it is the polish, the features and the possibilities that are leaping so much ahead that boggles my mind.

I won't lie to you and say that there is not a hardware I like more than others and like you I have my reasons (I guess BD-ROM, Blue-Tooth, Linux and "allowed" home brew programming, SD/CF/MS flash support, tons of USB/HDMI/Ethernet ports, WiFi capabilities included, etc... still it is not the point of this thread)., but I have waited... I have given it thought, I have followed news and previews... Passing the Xbox 360 is not right, it does not compute.

I look at it this way: if I can sit back, take yet another look at the console's specs and capabilities (hardware and software) and be willing to learn every minute detail available for it, understand it and discuss it then I am way past the point of simply "well it is a new console of course it is a bit improved and has new games". I can now fully understand what DCharlie goes through when a new console launches .

There are weaknesses, things they are DOING WRONG in Xbox 360 and PLAYSTATION 3, but (as I hope I will feel when Revolution will be FULLY unveiled) I see too much genius, too much vision and future in each console to just see all of them as ultimately acceptable compromises and still feel just too excited by the things they are DOING RIGHT.

My most wanted game for Xbox 360 is Oblivion and even though I will likely have to stay without it when the console launches over here (no games for a week or two besides well the backward-compatibility supported games and the ones available on Xbox LIVE Arcade and on the HDD)... I am still putting more money in my Xbox 360 reservation, not even thinking of canceling it for such a reason.

What excited me so much to make this rant is ultimately Xbox LIVE arcade on Xbox 360: tons of games, tons of publishers on board, talk is being followed by actions and I am liking what I see. Lots of classics playable multi-player on line with enhanced (sometimes redone too) graphics which I can TRY for free and purchase for a small price ?

What initially sold me the Xbox 360 were Oblivion, the hardware inside Xbox 360 (I support hardware innovation... btw, GO SAMSUNG GOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!) and last but not least the Lamasoft embedded Music Visualizer. Now the more I see about Xbox 360's GUI, the more I get to hear how all the functions of the machine are integrated together and new cool features are given more time under the spot-light, the more my anticipation for this console rises.

You see, I like convergence, I always did. I like having devices that well incorporate a fully variated multi-media (and beyond) capabilities giving you easy access to them.

A great deal of my excitement behind PSP was and still is related to its multi-media capabilities and how the XMB GUI+PSP OS gave you access to them (the screen is the most awesome icing on the cake you could think for a portable console even though a 34 bits LCD with this resolution and brightness with NO ghosting would be even better ).

I like convergence devices just too much: even doing programming (with both PSP and PlayStation 2 Linux) I loved the Windows XP + Visual Studio combo. Windows XP is my favorite MS OS ever and is the first OS that really made wishes of having GNU Linux or one of the various BSD variants installed my my Desktop PC... why ? Because it is intuitive, functional, fast, reliable, multi-purpose and very well integrated OS with a GUI I am very happy with (I like MacOSX a lot too, but I find the Macintosh systems too over-priced for their technological content ). Cygwin and using PlayStation 2 Linux through telnet... doing all my work on Windows XP is satisfying to me.

I do not mind having more than one convergence device in the house, all the contrary I love it (go see "Pana and his love of Pervasive Computing promises" soon available in a Barnes & Nobles near you ) and is exactly what I have been wanting all these years.

I want my consoles connected to the Home Network, I want all my devices to be able to communicate with each other, I want my data to be able to flow freely through my home LAN from one device to the other: I do not want to have my console to only play games. It was enough before, but I bet once you do get a taste for "intelligent networked devices interaction" you will not want to go back. PlayStation 2, thanks also to PS2Linux (as well as its other multi-media features), for example gives me something that already makes it impossible for me to go back o the PSOne era and be happy with such a console.
I do not know if you get how cool is for a person like me to be able to turn on my console and log on it through telnet and have it interact with my PC being able to develop stuff on PlayStation 2, to use it as a server, as networked data storage (thanks Samba )...

I love the PSP, I love the little bit of programming PSPSDK (the free and public one) lets me do (even if the coolest bit, the VFPU, is still not really usable), but darn the location free TV thing is making ME considering upgrading the firmware or, probably what will happen one day, purchasing another PSP. Imagine if PLAYSTATION 3 is able to function as a LocationFree base station , that would be too beautiful to imagine... I do not know how realistic such a dream is, but it is still a nice dream .

Even though I will always criticize the Windows 95 feel of the DS's OS , I cannot forget to give props to Nintendo for doing also a step towards multi-media convergence. WiFi (finally they are delivering it with Animal Crossing and Mario Kart for DS... Animal Crossing is creeping up on my Wish List too ), Messaging, a touch screen (and well the hardware inside the DS finally allows that GENESIS+SNES kind of 2D games the GBA promised to, but not ALWAYS delivered, although in some cases like The Legend of Zelda: The Minish cap they did... plus naturally some form of 3D gaming on a hand held: of course PSP is much more capable in that regard, but it does not mean that decent graphics are IMPOSSIBLE on the DS... well besides a bit of shimmering and texture pixellization !!! ), etc... Not to mention the PDA-like functionalities they already offer (calendar, clock, etc...): the DS, jokes aside, is the best alarm clock I ever had thanks to the neat inclusion of a "Remaining Time" reminder... heh, sometimes it hurts you when you are trying to make believe you will still have a good enough amount of sleep that night and then you set the DS's alarm clock . It won't lie to you .

I am sorry if I wrote so much stuff, hopefully it did not say again too little with too many words (I am stopping myself now if not I think I could digress some more... too much ) and it is interesting to at least someone beyond myself .

 

[Blimblim]

Wow.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wow.

A saturday after-noon, a laptop... WiFi... fresh Xbox 360 exciting news... what can you do ? .

Oh well I guess that my univ. books await me . (Forza TORO! whoops there some soccer fanboyism passing through )

 

[radioheadrule83]

I am shocked and stunned by the sheer amount of enthusiastic text before me.

Good call though. I think some companies are putting out some stale stuff. Maybe some of the genres themselves need a bit of invention, maybe they're stale themselves. But I think we're seeing the same amount of great gaming released as we ever have. In fact we're seeing better games and systems today period. We've never had it so good.

I only have one problem about the future of the hobby: money

This hobby is too costly to ever aspire to being as mass market as it could be. It can never be as big or as widely enjoyed as it could be. I think some companies have read into their current colossal success, and decided they can build mega-consoles, so multifunctional that they challenge the place of the PC in the home. New machines that will allow companies to release similar gameplay experiences (as well as new ones of course), with the main marketing draw at the outset being fancier graphics... as we've all discussed before, this increases development costs and risk. I think they're hoping that an increased gaming population and higher prices at the shops will pay for all of it. It seems like a gamble to me, and its gonna hurt some companies. You start hurting companies, and you hurt the industry imo. We don't want that. We only want good games. And we'd buy more of them if they were cheaper. They would be more accessible to potential new gamers if they were cheaper. Gaming could be as ubiquitous and culturally huge as the motion picture. But if this is the direction we're going in? It never will be. Thats the one thing that worries me about the coming generation... its going the other way.

Revolution might redress the balance, and give the industry more of a tiered structure, so that theres something for everyone. It could be a great and affordable entry level videogame machine as well as something new and different for existing gamers... thats certainly what they want us to believe. But being honest? While I see it being very new, and very cool, I don't see it straying too far from the same kind of license, publishing and distribution systems that will be employed for Xbox 360 and PS3.

 

[open_mouth_]

I'm pretty much in the same boat... though not quite as deep in the ocean as you are

 

[llTll]

i feel the same way

in me, i am sony fan. not because the name sony. it doesnt give me shit. its just i like the games on sony console. those japanese games. the japanese developers focus more into sony conosle. and since i like their games. i like the playstation.


beside i am technology addict. blue ray player, blue tooth technology for gaming. advanced hardwere . its a reason to get ps3.

but you are right. xbox 360 is really too good to not get one. and the good thing its here. i cant wait 1 year to get ps3. i barely stand any current gen anymore. i cant wait to get xbox 360. till the time ps3 come, i will either sell my 360 or keep it if Sony prove to be bullshit or the fact that xbox 360 is more powerful console than ps3. [ i am grahics whore i admit]

for now. PGR3, DOA4, RR6, FIFA06, PDzero [ i think ] are mine


till the time ps3 comes out, who knows what will happen

 

[Panajev2001a]

i feel the same way

in me, i am sony fan. not because the name sony. it doesnt give me shit. its just i like the games on sony console. those japanese games. the japanese developers focus more into sony conosle. and since i like their games. i like the playstation.


beside i am technology addict. blue ray player, blue tooth technology for gaming. advanced hardwere . its a reason to get ps3.

but you are right. xbox 360 is really too good to not get one. and the good thing its here. i cant wait 1 year to get ps3. i barely stand any current gen anymore. i cant wait to get xbox 360. till the time ps3 come, i will either sell my 360 or keep it if Sony prove to be bullshit or the fact that xbox 360 is more powerful console than ps3. [ i am grahics whore i admit]

for now. PGR3, DOA4, RR6, FIFA06, PDzero [ i think ] are mine


till the time ps3 comes out, who knows what will happen

I think you should keep the Xbox 360 even after you get the PLAYSTATION 3, if you can.

 

[Draft]

Right now you could get a Gamecube and like 5 games for $200. Gaming's not THAT expensive.

 

[shpankey]

great write up pana, and i feel almost exactly the same (though not as deep into the little tech things as you). i am extremely excited also about x360 (good Lord, have you seen NBA Live 06 and of course PGR3?) and i can't wait for ps3 also (but i'll be getting it on day one also). but MSFT has done a lot to show that next-gen has arrived now and in a BIG big way. can hardly wait for nov. 22nd now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I am shocked and stunned by the sheer amount of enthusiastic text before me.

Good call though. I think some companies are putting out some stale stuff. Maybe some of the genres themselves need a bit of invention, maybe they're stale themselves. But I think we're seeing the same amount of great gaming released as we ever have. In fact we're seeing better games and systems today period. We've never had it so good.

I only have one problem about the future of the hobby: money

This hobby is too costly to ever aspire to being as mass market as it could be. It can never be as big or as widely enjoyed as it could be. I think some companies have read into their current colossal success, and decided they can build mega-consoles, so multifunctional that they challenge the place of the PC in the home. New machines that will allow companies to release similar gameplay experiences (as well as new ones of course), with the main marketing draw at the outset being fancier graphics... as we've all discussed before, this increases development costs and risk. I think they're hoping that an increased gaming population and higher prices at the shops will pay for all of it. It seems like a gamble to me, and its gonna hurt some companies. You start hurting companies, and you hurt the industry imo. We don't want that. We only want good games. And we'd buy more of them if they were cheaper. They would be more accessible to potential new gamers if they were cheaper. Gaming could be as ubiquitous and culturally huge as the motion picture. But if this is the direction we're going in? It never will be. Thats the one thing that worries me about the coming generation... its going the other way.

Revolution might redress the balance, and give the industry more of a tiered structure, so that theres something for everyone. It could be a great and affordable entry level videogame machine as well as something new and different for existing gamers... thats certainly what they want us to believe. But being honest? While I see it being very new, and very cool, I don't see it straying too far from the same kind of license, publishing and distribution systems that will be employed for Xbox 360 and PS3.

I do not think that cost of consoles is rising too much and as far as development costs, well let me put it this way: either you get people to stop wanting better graphics, more interactivity with the game worlds, better physics, more alive entities with good A.I., etc... then you will need to improove performance and you know what ease of programming is not what would cure totally rising development costs. It is the content and the amount of skilled people needed to make it. We can keep making believe things are good enough now, that people do not want... do not NEED more, but we keep lying to ourselves.

I see with the next-generation consoles the price rise being justified by what they pack in, their versatility and experience they can provide to the end user. Besides, no one is crying and shouting at the prices in the CE industry... iPod Shuffle anyone (not to talk about the Nano and the uber high price, compared to manufacturing costs, they charge) ? If you give value to customers you will keep selling.

Games are great part of that VALUE, but I think that the industry is mature enough to survive without a crash. Nobody is uber-happy about the rise to a $59 MSRP or about the huge number of companies merging together, but if the amount of quality and succesful titles keeps coming on the market I do not think we should fear about a possible crash.

Let's hope the console manufacturers and software developers make true of their promise to widen the gaming market so that our "hobby" can survive and evolve even further .

 

[Panajev2001a]

great right up pana, and i feel almost exactly the same (though not as deep into the little tech things as you). i am excited about x360 (good Lord, have you seen NBA Live 06 and of course PGR3?) and i can't wait for ps3 also.

I prefer the 2K Games basketball games and I think both PGR3 and Ridge Racer 6 show a lot of potential, but my most wanted launch game for the xbox 360 is Oblivion.

 

[argon]

I don't think the industry will implode, but it will definitely contract significantly unless something is done.

Gaming is becoming far too expensive. Consoles are averaging $300-$400 this gen, with games at $60. Peripherals are similarly overpriced.

With high game prices, you will see rentals and used game sales go through the roof, which will hurt profits (especially sports games and big budget titles). We are already seeing signs of this, with Best Buy making major signals to move into the used game market. Its simply a better economic model for these game stores, since they make obscene margins.

Used game sales means lower company profits. And with development costs rising this gen, that in turn forces a company to become even more conservative. Mergers and acquisitions will continue to kill off smaller developers with great ideas. You really think companies like Natsume will be around next gen? Even Capcom and Ubi Soft are vulnerable. The market is far too hostile.

I believe all this has already taken place in Japan. Looking at those Japanese sales charts from 94-95 is pretty sobering. I hope it doesn't end up this way in the US and Europe, but I think we are heading in that direction.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I think that the Japanese market shrunk for other reasons... hopefully the new wave of consoles will change it (the DS and the PSP already showed that the market is not dead to innovations in the sector, especially the DS in Japan).

I disagree with the "over-priced" comment regarding consoles. You might say that they cost more than what you are willing to spend, but not they they are not worth their price.

Small companies might survive, but I am not too afraid of mergers per-se as not all companies are like EA... buying and then killing competitors.

Will the stronghold publishers have on developers stiffle creativity ? It might, but we have cures for that (cough... STEAM-like systems... cough).

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Great writing! And I agree in everything, expecially here:

I understand, but if you are a gamer or a technology+games enthusiast and can afford to spend money on this ahem "hobby" well... staying exclusive to one console is madness.

I surely will follow this road. But the only problem isn't money here, rather time: I hope I'll be able to play all the great games the next-gen will deliver us

Grande post, complimenti

 

[ourumov]

Nice post Pana Long time I don't see you

 

[Andy787]

I didn't read a thing you posted, but, um, I'm pretty sure I agree.

Honestly, gaming now is better than ever, even though I'm finding myself guffawing at games a lot more now (probably due the assembly line style of producing games that many of the big publishers have taken to, primarily the big 3 western pubs [EA, Activision, THQ]). But regardless, if you know what you're looking for, gaming the best it's ever been, at least for what I'm looking for.

And I think the only people saying the industry is about to "implode" are Nintendo fanboys who are loyal to the end. (which is not a dig at Nintendo in anyway what so ever, I love Nintendo)

 

[Panajev2001a]

Nice post Pana Long time I don't see you

Sorry man, I am kinda busy with university (POLITECNICO) plus I am really fighting against MSN Messenger and their support team. I do want my Internet Explorer's Proxy set to 127.0.0.1 and using the allowed system of whitelisting web addresses to make MSN Messenger connect to the network... hopefully I will be back on MSN soon. Still, you did receive that NOT short e-mail I sent you from my gmail account ? I hope so, please tell me if it did not arrive as it did not return back so I assumed you received it... I wanted to be helpful .

 

[bobjuice]

OMG gayrod

k/j

 

[open_mouth_]

I don't think the gaming market will crash/implode any time soon, either. Despite the rise in average game prices and console hardware, I think this rise is in line with this past decade of inflation and peoples' perceived value of "next-gen" entertainment. I think Microsoft is playing it smart by having the 299/399 offer (as a gamer I'd prefer the HD standard, instead) and pricing 1st party games at $50 because the general (mis)conception will be that, for the most part, prices have remained pretty much in line with this generation, despite the new tech and next-gen games. Microsoft is in a position to be extremely competitive with it's price in the future and price drops will be even more effective for them because 1) drops can be staggered and happen more often ($399 down to $99 is along way) 2) when the core hits $199, it will fly since many will remember the $399 original HD pack price and think they're getting an even bigger steal 3) Live and Live Arcade will help subsidize cost even more allowing MS to be even more aggressive to expand its share and the market itself.

If anything, I think the market will expand more than ever before. Handheld will have intense competition between mobile/GBA/DS/PSP/ipod and future iterations while the home market will have the budget conscious consumers busy with PS2/GC/Xbox and inexpensive arcade games on PC and consoles and tech-savvy customers trying to find time for 360/PS3/Rev. The promotions, media coverage, shelf-space, and special offers will be so pervasive and the race to innovate and/or differentiate with sheer quality in terms of game development because of the intense competition will combine to convince the world in large (developed countries, mostly) that gaming deserves an even more significant portion of their entertainment dollars. Almost every niche and type of individual will be catered to, from the hardcore to the techies to the old-timers to the parlor players to females to budget gamers to moms who want to keep their kids busy/happy etc, etc.

 

[shpankey]

I don't get why everyone keeps saying gaming is getting 'so much more expensive'. It's the same price pretty much as it's always been. $299 for a new console and $60 games is nothing new (N64). Hell, 3DO launched at $699.

If you factor in inflation and shit, gaming is actually cheaper now than its ever been.

 

[siege]

I don't get why everyone keeps saying gaming is getting 'so much more expensive'. It's the same price pretty much as it's always been. $299 for a new console and $60 games is nothing new (N64). Hell, 3DO launched at $699.

If you factor in inflation and shit, gaming is actually cheaper now than its ever been.

I think a lot of it has to do with getting older and feeling the money is better spent elsewhere. Unless your rich and money is no issue, which isn't the case for many of us.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I don't get why everyone keeps saying gaming is getting 'so much more expensive'. It's the same price pretty much as it's always been. $299 for a new console and $60 games is nothing new (N64). Hell, 3DO launched at $699.

If you factor in inflation and shit, gaming is actually cheaper now than its ever been.

Yes, but you have to admit that the Xbox 360 core pack is not MS's IDEAL bundle (Premium pack shipping in higher quantities) and that PLAYSTATION 3 will not ship at $299 is basically a certainty. Prices are going up, but if you look inside the box... well you know what would have been the other way right ? Charging across-the-board higher royaltes and development kits costs to offset the hardware losses, which not even Microsoft was willing to make this generation... not in those amounts.
Prices would have risen above what they have now. AFAIK royaltes now on home consoles and portables have fallen also to help publishers and developers, the content providers, to take back more money from each game they sell which is not a bad thing. Like we do now we will keep seeing games released below the $59.90 mark and if the games pushing the higher price-tag do appeal to people and keep pushing the industry then the publisher's plan to off-set the increasing budgets will work. Still technology, helped by the console manufacturers and the leaps that broadband and home LAN technologies have done over the years, can give to developers other ways to bypass at least initially what lots of publishers today force to many developers, the "is this game concept surely going to be profitable selling to large and dumb masses (which they consider gamers to be) ?" test.

Even if STEAM or similar technologies do not make it to the console arena, although it would be a shame, they will be epanding on the PC side and will allow publishers to get a following in the PC scene, to deliver their games to the people and then publishers WILL notice them if the product the development house produced is showing some form of success or at least critical acclaim (which sometimes might mean good sales on a more receptive market). They are forced to look it deeply, more than they would do if they received a small demo from an unnamed developer looking for a publisher and no BIG track record.

Still, I think that although you might have to work a bit more to afford them, they are worth the price without being unaffordable.

Look at the capabilities those systems will deliver against a $349-399 PC at the end of this year. Mult-Media wise I do not see the consoles being matched and yes you won't be able to run MS Office on them, but maybe OpenOffice yes (with an additional expense though... such an expense would be off-set by the fact of having something like PS3Linux for the home-user if such a thing would happen ).

 

[Flo_Evans]

I agree Panajev, gaming has never been better.

When I was younger on my 1st job my entire paycheck was spent at the game stor or arcade, now I have other priorites like cars credit cards and taxes that must come 1st. Sometime when you look back at all the games and systems and controllers you have bought over the years its a little sad, but then again I go out for the weekend and spend $100 on drinks, then I am pissed cause I could of bought 2 new games.

I am trying really hard to resist the x360, but I don't think its going to work once it is actually out :lol

 

[jett]

...






...panajev plays games?

edit: wait, I should've read his post first. Not a single line mentioning gameplay.

 

[argon]

I don't get why everyone keeps saying gaming is getting 'so much more expensive'. It's the same price pretty much as it's always been. $299 for a new console and $60 games is nothing new (N64). Hell, 3DO launched at $699.

If you factor in inflation and shit, gaming is actually cheaper now than its ever been.

Sorry, inflation plays a part, but not that much. I bought an N64 for $199.99 in '96, and a Dreamcast for $199.99 in '99. But now the Xbox360 costs at least $399.99, or $340 if you're a retard. And who knows what PS3 will cost. I'm not saying the X360 is not worth the money-- it actually looks like a pretty great machine. But it remains to be seen whether such a price point will be recieved well by the mainstream consumer. This is the reason MS went with the dual pricing scheme-- to try and break down that psychological barrier of buying a $400 console.

The 3DO is a bad example since it flopped hard precisely due to its ridiculous price point. And don't forget that high-priced N64 software basically killed the 3rd party market on that machine. Lower priced PSX titles sold much better.

 

[Panajev2001a]

...






...panajev plays games?

edit: wait, I should've read his post first. Not a single line mentioning gameplay.

Hehe, well I told you I could have gone longer... I guess I will save it for when I cannot hold the "why I like next-generation games and the processing power potential of the next-generation consoles" rant or the "why did not enough people like Shenmue ?" rant .

 

[evilromero]

I don't think the industry will implode, but it will definitely contract significantly unless something is done.

Gaming is becoming far too expensive. Consoles are averaging $300-$400 this gen, with games at $60. Peripherals are similarly overpriced.

Maybe you forgot about the NES era (with soft prices all over the board- same with SNES) or the price of the Saturn ($400) and PSX ($300) at launch. N64 games got up to $70 at times. Games aren't really becoming that expensive. In fact, if you take a look around you'll see a large amount of titles releasing for $19.99 or $39.99 (most first party soft from Sony, etc). I think we sometimes forget how good it has actually become. I remember paying $80 for Rise of the Robots on SNES. Wow. Did I ever get burned.

I'm damned excited about the 360 launch. I'm still on the fence whether I should get one sooner rather than later. The $400 tag is a significant matter, but I don't want to wait around for the annual price reduction. Instead, I'd much rather enjoy PD0 and Kameo this year. Too Human within the coming months and whatever else is thrown my way.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Maybe you forgot about the NES era (with soft prices all over the board- same with SNES) or the price of the Saturn ($400) and PSX ($300) at launch. N64 games got up to $70 at times. Games aren't really becoming that expensive. In fact, if you take a look around you'll see a large amount of titles releasing for $19.99 or $39.99 (most first party soft from Sony, etc). I think we sometimes forget how good it has actually become. I remember paying $80 for Rise of the Robots on SNES. Wow. Did I ever get burned.

I'm damned excited about the 360 launch. I'm still on the fence whether I should get one sooner rather than later. The $400 tag is a significant matter, but I don't want to wait around for the annual price reduction. Instead, I'd much rather enjoy PD0 and Kameo this year. Too Human within the coming months and whatever else is thrown my way.

One more thing, in the NES and SNES era there was not AFAIK a big Player's Choice/Platinum/etc... program wide-spread and used by all console hardware manufacturers. I might be wrong, but I remember those days as a MegaDrive gamer also buying GameGear games and no friends mentioned me something about NES or SNES "Platinum programs" nor did I really see it on SEGA's babies.

 

[Zaphod]

I think a lot of it has to do with getting older and feeling the money is better spent elsewhere. Unless your rich and money is no issue, which isn't the case for many of us.

I dunno. I see lots of older people blow thousands on boats, bikes, computers, gadgets etc. Most people have some type of hobby. As for cash, I just drive a car thats paid for and that frees up plenty of money for games, and I am far far from rich.

 

[Warm Machine]

Today I feel that gaming is more alive and interesting than it has ever been.

 

[evilromero]

One more thing, in the NES and SNES era there was not AFAIK a big Player's Choice/Platinum/etc... program wide-spread and used by all console hardware manufacturers. I might be wrong, but I remember those days as a MegaDrive gamer also buying GameGear games and no friends mentioned me something about NES or SNES "Platinum programs" nor did I really see it on SEGA's babies.

The first significant push for price reduction was Nintendo's Player's Choice, with Super Mario Kart, Zelda, Mario All-Stars and some others. But even those were $39.99. Nintendo did a similar program for their classic GB titles, like Link's Awakening. But let's not kid ourselves- $40 dollars for a six year old game?

Like I said, we expect games to reduce in price rapidly nowadays. You can get Viewtiful Joe 2 for $9.99 at Target!

 

[Panajev2001a]

The first significant push for price reduction was Nintendo's Player's Choice, with Super Mario Kart, Zelda, Mario All-Stars and some others. But even those were $39.99. Nintendo did a similar program for their classic GB titles, like Link's Awakening. But let's not kid ourselves- $40 dollars for a six year old game?

Like I said, we expect games to reduce in price rapidly nowadays. You can get Viewtiful Joe 2 for $9.99 at Target!

I am happy to be corrected, I did not see it (thanks GIG grrrr) it really here in Italy back then: I really saw it in stores in action with PSOne's Platinum's program.

The drop has been really huge: from 39.90 to 19.90... a $20 reduction in the Player's Choice program without counting inflation.

Also, current games do not get "budget" re-releases after 5-6 years, often if they were a bit succesful they get it like a year later or less (see Jak & Daxter 3).

 

[jman2050]

While I agree with most of what you said (I still have 0 interest in the 360), I was always under the impression that the foretold fall of the industry wasn't a matter of quality of content but a matter of economics.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I am sorry I did not wake any more interest in the console, but there is still hope .

It would be a matter of economics and also of quality as I doubt shovelware crap flooding the market would do much good. I see solutions to both of the possible problems ahead, especially for the economics one related to growing game development costs: I see gaming market still expanding and being able to support the new price tag for those titles that deserve it as well as some developers doing like Valve and trying to bypass publishers and retailers or maybe simply retailers as much as possible being able to recoup their expenses much faster and starting to make a profit earlier, with lower sales for each copy of the game needed to achieve that kind of result.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

why do people see the industry imploding as a bad thing?



I mean I liked game when they were niche and how they are now, but I know some dont.

 

[ourumov]

Oh yep Pana, received it. Right now however I continue doing PS2 experiments. I began a project in which I am trying to do realistic water Have lots of free time now that I finished University...jejeje

 

[Monk]

The problem isn't the lack of quality software but the fact that there is so much quality software. Us "gamers" are buying so many games that we dont even play most of them. So can you imagine the casual gamers? They are going to be buying less than us because quite frankly they are not idiots for videogames. And there in lies the problem, so much software, increasing dev costs, and the industry isnt expanding at a rate to satisfy supply.

Hence why I think that the Rev going after a different market is a good thing. Instead of the market being split three ways, it is instead split into two. With Nintendo some how surviving(those fuckers are hard to kill ;p).

 

[Nightbringer]

I have to say that since I have my own salary I enjoy more the games and the computer science more than before.

My first videogame system was a Commodore64 that my parents bought to me with a lot of edutainment but I finished playing games like Donkey Kong (Ocean version), Terra Cresta, Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego, Smash TV, Turrican... I enjoyed the system and today already runs.

But after my 2 years of Commodore64 my grandmother bought me a NES and I was starting to feel and love this "hobby", two years more and a MegaDrive, two years more a Saturn that I sold for a SNES with a lot of games and after It I disconnected from the gaming media 2 more years.

In 1997 my parents bought to me a PC (an IBM Aptiva 442) and a friend of mine said to me: "You need a 3D Graphics accelerator named Voodoo for playing the games with stunning graphics" but when I was inside the videogame shop I saw the PSone and all the games at the same side of the PC games and with a stroke of genius or something similar I stepped out of the shop with a PSone, Castlevania SOTN and FF7. One year later I bought the N64 with Mario64 and Zelda and until the year 2002 I enjoyed the two consoles.

But this last generation is my favourite generations, the why are few things:

1. Internet forums, thanks to them I can know what to buy and what not to buy.

2. Now I have my own salary and I can enjoy my 3 consoles (DS, GCN and PS2).

3. If you love videogames you will love the content of the game and not the form of the game. I believe that we the players are moving into a situation where the content of the game is more important than the form of the game. Games like Katamari years ago would be labeled as stupids.

4. You enjoy more a thing when you have bought it with your work.

PD: Urian salutes you Pana.

 

[Version 3.0]

I dunno. I see lots of older people blow thousands on boats, bikes, computers, gadgets etc. Most people have some type of hobby. As for cash, I just drive a car thats paid for and that frees up plenty of money for games, and I am far far from rich.

Exactly what I do. People have different priorities for their spare cash; mine is games. I know people who spend as much on their car as I do on games--first, on the payment/insurance, then on all kinds of extras. They think I'm crazy, and I think they're crazy.

 

[DCharlie]

"...panajev plays games?
edit: wait, I should've read his post first. Not a single line mentioning gameplay. "

He's obviously doing something more constructive with his time! he hardly posts anymore.

Gaf Pana --> trip to Japan --> The New Pana.

 

[Deku]

He's obviously doing something more constructive with his time! he hardly posts anymore.

Gaf Pana --> trip to Japan --> The New Pana.

Heh Japan can do that Must be the water.


Anyways, with regards to the OP, I don't think the industry will implode, but the greater danger is to spiral down the path of the Comic Book industry, which reached its Zenith in the 1950s and at one time, commentators had said more or less the same things about its ubiquity. The whole from presidents to kids will be reading them spiel. Today, the industry is just reviving from decades of disastrous self exclusion, mainly because the hard-core male audience decided they want a certain kind of story and it pretty much killed off the more mainstream content as Marvel and DC eventually only catered to that audience.

There's also the issue of self censorship brought on by intense public pressure which had a pretty disastrous effect on the comic industry as many companies folded and existing franchises had to be censored to the point of irrelevance.
http://www.onceuponadime.com/hist/comicscode.htm

http://www.sideroad.com/comics/column12.html

 

[----]

I won't lie to you and say that there is not a hardware I like more than others and like you I have my reasons (I guess BD-ROM, Blue-Tooth, Linux and "allowed" home brew programming, SD/CF/MS flash support, tons of USB/HDMI/Ethernet ports, WiFi capabilities included, etc... still it is not the point of this thread)., but I have waited... I have given it thought, I have followed news and previews... Passing the Xbox 360 is not right, it does not compute.

Where's Cockles to welcome you?

 

[Yamauchi]

Before this generation rolled around and the general price range of the new group of consoles was revealed, I felt the most pressing decision that faced the gaming industry was what decision they would make in regard to the emerging markets. Obviously, the major players, Microsoft and Sony, have chosen to isolate themselves from these markets by pushing for a more expensive set of hardware and games.

China has an affluent middle class of roughly 300 million people. In India, the middle class has reached 200 million. The world's fourth most populous nation, Indonesia, also has an emering middle class. It will number perhaps 50 million in a few years. Indonesia and India have a swelling number of youth as a percentage of their population, while China's stays constant. If these markets were effectively entered by the gaming industry, they could see their global sales double. However, these markets require affordable hardware and software, something that has not been offered to them. They've turned to piracy for the time being, but that's simply because they can't afford the alternative.

It seems the gaming industry has decided to capitalize in the areas it has had the most success. It's a logical decision, and the industry will likely continue to see ~5% growth annually. However, they are severely limiting their future potential.

 

[crunker99]

launch time is the best time to be in the industry man.. for the next year until the rev finally launches the whole industry will be alive with a buzz that happens no other time.. it is seriously one of the reasons i decided to work in the industry , once every 5 years or so.. cheesy as it sounds.. its like industry magic in the air

 

[shpankey]

The problem isn't the lack of quality software but the fact that there is so much quality software.

So true.

 

[KeithFranklin]

The only reason for the implode talk is the name of the #1 and #2 Console makers. If everything else was the same, but swap the names of Sony and Nintendo and the implode claimers tune would be much, much different.

 

[gamergirly]

If it's anything like the Ren & Stimpy version of "implode" then it's time to find a new hobby

 

[Panajev2001a]

He's obviously doing something more constructive with his time! he hardly posts anymore.

Gaf Pana --> trip to Japan --> The New Pana.

Heh, time spent with D.C. (and Missus on which I never made advances please do not kill me I was good, I have consoles portable and home ones to feed! ) and Mr. Singh (who generously had me as his guest and helped me eat more raw fish than I ever had in my whole life, yummy... except the eel ) together with Japan's beauty (and beauties ) make something too good not to affect people in some way (I hope it was in a positive way).

 

[Panajev2001a]

launch time is the best time to be in the industry man.. for the next year until the rev finally launches the whole industry will be alive with a buzz that happens no other time.. it is seriously one of the reasons i decided to work in the industry , once every 5 years or so.. cheesy as it sounds.. its like industry magic in the air

So true, so true .

 

[Panajev2001a]

Before this generation rolled around and the general price range of the new group of consoles was revealed, I felt the most pressing decision that faced the gaming industry was what decision they would make in regard to the emerging markets. Obviously, the major players, Microsoft and Sony, have chosen to isolate themselves from these markets by pushing for a more expensive set of hardware and games.

China has an affluent middle class of roughly 300 million people. In India, the middle class has reached 200 million. The world's fourth most populous nation, Indonesia, also has an emering middle class. It will number perhaps 50 million in a few years. Indonesia and India have a swelling number of youth as a percentage of their population, while China's stays constant. If these markets were effectively entered by the gaming industry, they could see their global sales double. However, these markets require affordable hardware and software, something that has not been offered to them. They've turned to piracy for the time being, but that's simply because they can't afford the alternative.

It seems the gaming industry has decided to capitalize in the areas it has had the most success. It's a logical decision, and the industry will likely continue to see ~5% growth annually. However, they are severely limiting their future potential.

China and India becoming richer will also mean that they can and are willing to buy higher priced stuff, but you do not have to forget that it would be likely that if MS, SCE or Nintendo wanted to bring their next-generation console over there that they would probably release it a bit cheaper over there (maybe they would not ship the Premium pack or the would ship it when they are also ready to cut its price in the rest of the world thus being able to launche it there discounted).