-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Why Are Printers Cheaper Than Ink?
- Thread starter HUELEN10
- Start date
- Status
There are cartridge chip flashers that can reset your cartridge.
PaulExcellent
Member
i have 5 printers at home and no idea what to do with them
MrCunningham
Member
Because fuck inkjet printers, that's why.
Put me in the laserjet crowd, as soon as I switched from ink to lase everything became so much better. I have like two injet printers boxed away that I will never use again, both were purchased within the last 7 years and one came free with a laptop. You can't even give these things away when they run out of ink, nobody wants them.
Put me in the laserjet crowd, as soon as I switched from ink to lase everything became so much better. I have like two injet printers boxed away that I will never use again, both were purchased within the last 7 years and one came free with a laptop. You can't even give these things away when they run out of ink, nobody wants them.
sixteen-bit
Member
what's the quality like?
The Elite
BOSS
Just bought one for $99 Canadian. Waiting for it to ship. So glad to finally be going laser. It feels long overdue.
terrisus
Member
Also, OP, you know they don't generally give you new/full ink cartridges in new printers?
So, if you're comparing the price of a new printer to that of new/full ink cartridges, you should at least be tossing a conversion factor in there.
MikeHattsu
Member
Starwolf_UK
Member
The only downside to laserjets is they are incredibly bulky (or at least the ones I've seen are*). Especially if you're going colour.
*-Being a home one that is 20 years old and office ones with like 3 paper trays
But the main issue is if you casually print then an inkjet will dry up before you get anywhere close to emptying a full cartridge.
*-Being a home one that is 20 years old and office ones with like 3 paper trays
I am disappointed with how few replies have stated this as I thought it was common knowledge by now.
But the main issue is if you casually print then an inkjet will dry up before you get anywhere close to emptying a full cartridge.
AstroNut325
Member
Are Brother inkjet printers also crap? I do color printing occasionally and a color laser printer is roughly 3-5x the cost.
i don't really have a strong opinion of inkjet printers, no matter the manufacturer. I've heard thoe brother are good, specially when you use it with these bad boys:
The downside is that is almost certain that you probably will never run out of ink before the printer ask you for major maintenance because you filled the waste pad.
Get a Brother laser. Cheap ~$80, dependable, lasts a long time. How often do you really need to print in color?
The cartridges that come with printers are starter cartridges, which are MAYBE 30% full. Ink jets are such a waste of money. The ink evaporates and if you don't use it often enough, the ink heads dry out. If you need color prints, go down to Staples or Kinko's and get them to print it in color. Buy a brother laser for your every day needs and don't look back.
The cartridges that come with printers are starter cartridges, which are MAYBE 30% full. Ink jets are such a waste of money. The ink evaporates and if you don't use it often enough, the ink heads dry out. If you need color prints, go down to Staples or Kinko's and get them to print it in color. Buy a brother laser for your every day needs and don't look back.
I love my canon wireless printer. You can get them for <£50 with wifi and airprint, including scanning directly to your computer. So much better than the bad old days. My 6350 folds up neat and tidy when not in use too which is handy when space is tight.
And because they are so relatively cheap, I'm not too worried when the manual warns me to use official ink - whats the worst that can happen, it clogs my printer and I need to buy a new one? So what?
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
Are you serious?
They wised up that pleople are buying new printers rather than buying ink replacement & are screwing new owners?
Doominated
Member
A few things about printers since there's a lot of misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread;
1 - For those who buy new printers when you run out of ink and have a stockpile of printers you don't know what to do with, Staples (And I think Best Buy too, not sure) do free recycling on pretty much all technology. Staples will also give you 2$ credit through their (free) rewards program on each ink cartridge too, and since most machines run quad cartridge sets now, it's an easy 8$. There is a small stipulation where you have to buy at least 30$ worth of ink within 180 days of your recycling to get the credit, but you could always just give the cartridges to someone else who does actually buy ink if you don't plan on doing that.
2 - Buying a new printer every time you run out of ink is NOT economically smart, no matter what way you try to slice it. With the exception of some of Epson's consumer line models, EVERY manufacturer only gives you "starter" ink on their inkjet printers. Depending on the manufacturer, this gives you 10-25% print capacity of the "full" cartridges. On the "disposable" inkjet printers that retail for $35-80, that's typically 20-50 prints at best. You're paying more than a dollar per page, not to mention wasting time setting up a new printer every time you have to print. Instead of just replacing your printer each time you run out of ink, do yourself a favor and spend 15-20 minutes doing a little research to find yourself a halfway decent printer that fits your needs as far as cartridge yield goes. They DO exist.
3 - Someone else mentioned this, but if you don't print "often" but when you do you need more than just a couple pages, never count out the option of going to a service area for it. Places like Staples and Office Depot have self service machines that have flash drive ports and cost 10-12 cents per page to print in B&W. That's a much lower cost per page than buying a new low end printer, even if it were to come with full cartridges. Color is usually 50-60 cents per page, which can get expensive, but still cheaper than the cost of a "cheap" inkjet printer, where they usually kill you on color costs.
4 - The idea that a color laser printer is a more economical choice than a color inkjet printer is FALSE. It's actually the complete opposite in the consumer space. Color Laser printers under the 500-600 price range (And I'm talking PRINTERS, by the way, not All In One machines) typically have 2-3x the cost per page of inkjet all in ones that are close to half the price. The advantage you get with color laser printers is that they're much easier to service/fix than an Inkjet machine, they're somewhat more reliable as far as longevity, toner doesn't "dry out" the way ink can, and they're more consistent with their prints. It's not until you break into business-class level pricing that you'll actually see Laser printers be a "cheaper" option than Inkjet if you have to deal with color.
Just for comparison's sake, we'll compare the Brother 3170C, a color laser printer that you'll typically find in the $199-279 price range, to the HP 8610, an inket all-in-one printer that you'll typically find in the $129-149 range (And currently as low as $99).
Initial Cost - Way in favor of the 8610, by more than 50% in some cases
Functions - Again, in favor of the 8610. It's a full printer/copy/scan/fax/autofeeder for half the cost of the "pure printer" 3170
Features - It's close. They both offer wireless, two sided printing, and mobile printing. But the 8610 gives you the ability to e-mail an order straight to the printer. From ANYWHERE. 8610, again, wins in this category.
Speed - The 3170 wins this one pretty handily. It gets a consistent 23 pages per minute rating regardless of color or black and white, while the 8610 is 19/15. Being that it's a laser printer, it's probably going to spit out the first page quicker than the 8610 can as well.
Print Cost - This is the important part. Going off of MSRP for an entire set of ink/toner, the 8610 completely annihilates the 3170. The 3170 costs just under $300 to get an entire set of toner, which would yield 1400 print per color cartridge and 2500 on the black. The 8610 on the other hand would run you right under $125 for an entire set of ink, and would get you 2300 prints on the black cartridge while yielding 1500 prints on each color. Yeah, you read that right, 125 vs 300 for almost exactly the same yield.
And before anybody says "Well, you can get generic toners for way cheaper!", you can do the same exact thing with the ink cartridges. And they both have the exact same pros and cons to doing so.
5 - Speaking of "drying out", most inkjet machines now a days regularly run a test page or internal sweep test to make sure your ink doesn't dry out on you, as long as it's connected to a power outlet. So it;s not even an "advantage" for laserjets anymore as long as you're not buying a complete piece of crap printer.
ANYWAY, here's a short list of printer options that can fit most consumer level needs, for anybody who does that whole "My ink's out, let me go buy a new printer!" thing. Like I said before, there ARE options that will make it pointless to do that. I'll organize it by user type.
"I print a small to moderate amount, and only in black and white"
If you're in this camp, your best bet at the current moment is one of Brother's base line HL series printers. There are 4 options here, depending on your printing needs, but unfortunately, this series is at its end of life cycle point and is on its way out. They have been extremely reliable machines with great toner price yields for YEARS. Hopefully their replacements follow suit.
You start here with the Brother 2240, which can run you anywhere from $50-100 depending on if you get a refurb or a decent sale. It's the definition of a basic printer; Black and white only, about 20 pages per minute. No special features, no extra functions. It just prints. If you want features like wireless and duplex printing, go for its twin, the HL-2270. It's typically 20-30$ more expensive, but the features are certainly worth it if you need it.
If you need more functions, like copying and scanning, you get 2 (Technically 3) options. The 2280 is the print/copy/scan version of the 2270; literally the same printer with a flatbed copier slapped on top. Usually $100-150, this is arguably the most popular consumer level printer in the US right now. It's fantastically reliable and gives every home feature the standard person needs.There is an upgrade that offers a fax/autofeeder on it known as the 7360, but you lose the wireless and duplex printing features, and it costs $50 more. There's an additional upgrade to that one, the 7860, which is another 50-100 price jump that gets you everything. But, chances are, if you're in this camp, you're not looking to spend $200-300.
The toner on this line is all the same; it uses the TN420 and TN450, which get you 1200 and 2600 pages of yield respectively (You only need one; it's a "low yield/high yield" option scenario). The toners cost between $40-70 for OEM toners, and get as low as $10 each for generics.
As I said, these models are all getting replaced, or in some cases, already have been. Toner costs on the new models remain pretty much the same (Cheaper, if anything), while the initial costs are a little higher ($10-20 usually). It's unknown how reliable the machines are yet though. The new model numbers are 2320, 2360, and the 2700, which replace the 2240, 2270, and 7360/7860 respectively. The 2280's replacement will be the 2520, which isn't out yet.
"I print a small to moderate amount, and need color"
Hear me out on this one, because it's going to sound like a weird way to do ink at first.
HP recently brought out this new program called "Instant Ink". It's a program where, for a subscription fee, you get a certain amount of "prints" per month. You don't have to worry about buying cartridges. You don't have to think about when you're going to run out. You don't even have to monitor anything yourself. HP handles everything for you. They even send you new cartridges when your old ones are about to run out.
I know anybody reading this just rolled their eyes when they saw "subscription". It's not a contract. It's a subscription that you can literally cancel at any time. And your unused prints "rollover" to the next month. Pricing is $2.99/50 prints, $4.99/100 prints, and $9.99/300 prints. You pay monthly. That's 6, 5, or 3 cents per page to print, and it doesn't make any difference if you're doing color, B&W, photos, letter size, legal. Just "pages". It's a seriously awesome offer and very surprising coming from HP.
There are only certain printers that work with it, although it looks like HP's looking to make all of their new consumer level printers work with the programs. It's a really simple way of making a printer selection, as you can just choose whichever one fits your price and feature needs, as opposed to worrying about ink costs. The printers it works with that I know of are;
HP OfficeJet 4630 - Basic All in one printer. Print/copy/scan/fax with wireless. Slow, less than 10 pages a minute, and no extra features, but it gets the job done and it's pretty small. Runs in the 99$ range.
HP Officejet Pro 6830 - The nicer, more reliable, sleeker version of the 4630. Great feature list in a somewhat compact size. Typically $129-179
HP Officejet Pro 8610/20/30 - The king. Seriously, the fucking king of consumer level inkjet printers. I wouldn't recommend instant ink with it however, as the page yields on the ink are so amazing that you're actually better off buying ink.
HP 4500/5530 - Print/Copy/Scan machine (No fax) that are more compact and sleek than the other options. Slowish speeds, but feature heavy and quiet. $79-130.
I would recommend the 5530 if you don't need/want a fax (Which means you lose auto document feeder for scanning), 4630 if you need a space saver with every function but not the features, and the 6830 if you need the features but you're strapped on space. As stated, 8610/20/30 is king.
"I print, sometimes a decent amount, and have to have color"
There's really only one option in this category now. It's the HP 8610 series or go home at this point. I've seen it as low as $99, it gets every feature you could possibly ask for, and the ink yields are incredible. We're talking 2300 pages on a $38 cartridge, and that's OEM pricing. 1.6 cents per page for black and white. 2 sided printing, wireless, eprint, mobile printing, wifi direct, sd cart slots, USB drive slot, wired network connection if it's needed, fax, 50 sheet auto document feeder, expandable for a second tray... Seriously, it's the king. Great speeds too at 19 and 15 pages per minute. Regular price is $200, but you can always find them on sale for 149, sometimes 129, and right now 99. You could get them for 69 a couple weeks ago. I almost bought one for myself and I have absolutely no need for it.
There are two other options in the 8610 series, which are the 8620 and 8630. The 8620 adds some size to the flatbed scanner so you can do legal size flatbed scans, adds some screen size to the LCD display (From 2.65" on the 8610 to 4.3" on the 8620), and it gets slightly faster speeds (About 10%). The 8630 is the 8620 machine but with the accessories added in the box; A second 250 sheet paper tray and a second set of color ink (Worth about $55). For businesses that don't want to buy a huge color laser printer, this is also a fantastic option, but we'll stick with consumer level people for now.
The one thing to keep in mind about the 8610 is the potential "sticker shock" of the ink. You'll be spending a good $95 on a set of ink for it to get the high yield black and the standard colors. This gets you 2300 prints on the black and 700 on each color. That's close to laser printer level yields at the cost of one black toner for pretty much any non-brother printer. It is actually worth it, assuming you print a lot. Generics exist as well, although I wouldn't really recommend generic inks for a machine like this. You can make use of HP's Instant Ink program too, although the ink is a better deal.
----------------------------
There are other manufacturers to choose from obviously, but HP and Brother kind of have those 3 markets (Which make up 95% of consumers) on lock right now. Epson makes some decent office/home printers in their Workforce line, but the comparable HP models are pretty much always slightly lower cost, more reliable, and better built. Canon makes very good laser printers, just as good as Brother, but the toner cost is out of control in comparison. Canon and Epson both make great photo printers, but I decided to leave those out as you're better off just going to service centers for photos nowadays, unless you need to print photos on a very regular basis. Brother makes feature heavy inkjet printers at good price points, but they are the absolute cheapest built printers in the world and the ink costs are very average (Although generic pricing is very good and very easy to find consistently). HP laser printers have nicer build quality than the Brother ones, but when you replace HP toner you're also replacing the drum unit, so the price gets spiked up a bit. Samsung is another option in lasers, but typically overpriced. If you JUST want a color laser printer they have some nice cheap options, but they'll still kill you on toner pricing compared to an inkjet. Lexmark has some options that use a very cheap ink (Literally 5$ for a cartridge), but they went out of business so it wouldn't be a good long term option.
-------------------------------
Hope SOMEBODY reads enough of that to help themselves with
1 - For those who buy new printers when you run out of ink and have a stockpile of printers you don't know what to do with, Staples (And I think Best Buy too, not sure) do free recycling on pretty much all technology. Staples will also give you 2$ credit through their (free) rewards program on each ink cartridge too, and since most machines run quad cartridge sets now, it's an easy 8$. There is a small stipulation where you have to buy at least 30$ worth of ink within 180 days of your recycling to get the credit, but you could always just give the cartridges to someone else who does actually buy ink if you don't plan on doing that.
2 - Buying a new printer every time you run out of ink is NOT economically smart, no matter what way you try to slice it. With the exception of some of Epson's consumer line models, EVERY manufacturer only gives you "starter" ink on their inkjet printers. Depending on the manufacturer, this gives you 10-25% print capacity of the "full" cartridges. On the "disposable" inkjet printers that retail for $35-80, that's typically 20-50 prints at best. You're paying more than a dollar per page, not to mention wasting time setting up a new printer every time you have to print. Instead of just replacing your printer each time you run out of ink, do yourself a favor and spend 15-20 minutes doing a little research to find yourself a halfway decent printer that fits your needs as far as cartridge yield goes. They DO exist.
3 - Someone else mentioned this, but if you don't print "often" but when you do you need more than just a couple pages, never count out the option of going to a service area for it. Places like Staples and Office Depot have self service machines that have flash drive ports and cost 10-12 cents per page to print in B&W. That's a much lower cost per page than buying a new low end printer, even if it were to come with full cartridges. Color is usually 50-60 cents per page, which can get expensive, but still cheaper than the cost of a "cheap" inkjet printer, where they usually kill you on color costs.
4 - The idea that a color laser printer is a more economical choice than a color inkjet printer is FALSE. It's actually the complete opposite in the consumer space. Color Laser printers under the 500-600 price range (And I'm talking PRINTERS, by the way, not All In One machines) typically have 2-3x the cost per page of inkjet all in ones that are close to half the price. The advantage you get with color laser printers is that they're much easier to service/fix than an Inkjet machine, they're somewhat more reliable as far as longevity, toner doesn't "dry out" the way ink can, and they're more consistent with their prints. It's not until you break into business-class level pricing that you'll actually see Laser printers be a "cheaper" option than Inkjet if you have to deal with color.
Just for comparison's sake, we'll compare the Brother 3170C, a color laser printer that you'll typically find in the $199-279 price range, to the HP 8610, an inket all-in-one printer that you'll typically find in the $129-149 range (And currently as low as $99).
Initial Cost - Way in favor of the 8610, by more than 50% in some cases
Functions - Again, in favor of the 8610. It's a full printer/copy/scan/fax/autofeeder for half the cost of the "pure printer" 3170
Features - It's close. They both offer wireless, two sided printing, and mobile printing. But the 8610 gives you the ability to e-mail an order straight to the printer. From ANYWHERE. 8610, again, wins in this category.
Speed - The 3170 wins this one pretty handily. It gets a consistent 23 pages per minute rating regardless of color or black and white, while the 8610 is 19/15. Being that it's a laser printer, it's probably going to spit out the first page quicker than the 8610 can as well.
Print Cost - This is the important part. Going off of MSRP for an entire set of ink/toner, the 8610 completely annihilates the 3170. The 3170 costs just under $300 to get an entire set of toner, which would yield 1400 print per color cartridge and 2500 on the black. The 8610 on the other hand would run you right under $125 for an entire set of ink, and would get you 2300 prints on the black cartridge while yielding 1500 prints on each color. Yeah, you read that right, 125 vs 300 for almost exactly the same yield.
And before anybody says "Well, you can get generic toners for way cheaper!", you can do the same exact thing with the ink cartridges. And they both have the exact same pros and cons to doing so.
5 - Speaking of "drying out", most inkjet machines now a days regularly run a test page or internal sweep test to make sure your ink doesn't dry out on you, as long as it's connected to a power outlet. So it;s not even an "advantage" for laserjets anymore as long as you're not buying a complete piece of crap printer.
ANYWAY, here's a short list of printer options that can fit most consumer level needs, for anybody who does that whole "My ink's out, let me go buy a new printer!" thing. Like I said before, there ARE options that will make it pointless to do that. I'll organize it by user type.
"I print a small to moderate amount, and only in black and white"
If you're in this camp, your best bet at the current moment is one of Brother's base line HL series printers. There are 4 options here, depending on your printing needs, but unfortunately, this series is at its end of life cycle point and is on its way out. They have been extremely reliable machines with great toner price yields for YEARS. Hopefully their replacements follow suit.
You start here with the Brother 2240, which can run you anywhere from $50-100 depending on if you get a refurb or a decent sale. It's the definition of a basic printer; Black and white only, about 20 pages per minute. No special features, no extra functions. It just prints. If you want features like wireless and duplex printing, go for its twin, the HL-2270. It's typically 20-30$ more expensive, but the features are certainly worth it if you need it.
If you need more functions, like copying and scanning, you get 2 (Technically 3) options. The 2280 is the print/copy/scan version of the 2270; literally the same printer with a flatbed copier slapped on top. Usually $100-150, this is arguably the most popular consumer level printer in the US right now. It's fantastically reliable and gives every home feature the standard person needs.There is an upgrade that offers a fax/autofeeder on it known as the 7360, but you lose the wireless and duplex printing features, and it costs $50 more. There's an additional upgrade to that one, the 7860, which is another 50-100 price jump that gets you everything. But, chances are, if you're in this camp, you're not looking to spend $200-300.
The toner on this line is all the same; it uses the TN420 and TN450, which get you 1200 and 2600 pages of yield respectively (You only need one; it's a "low yield/high yield" option scenario). The toners cost between $40-70 for OEM toners, and get as low as $10 each for generics.
As I said, these models are all getting replaced, or in some cases, already have been. Toner costs on the new models remain pretty much the same (Cheaper, if anything), while the initial costs are a little higher ($10-20 usually). It's unknown how reliable the machines are yet though. The new model numbers are 2320, 2360, and the 2700, which replace the 2240, 2270, and 7360/7860 respectively. The 2280's replacement will be the 2520, which isn't out yet.
"I print a small to moderate amount, and need color"
Hear me out on this one, because it's going to sound like a weird way to do ink at first.
HP recently brought out this new program called "Instant Ink". It's a program where, for a subscription fee, you get a certain amount of "prints" per month. You don't have to worry about buying cartridges. You don't have to think about when you're going to run out. You don't even have to monitor anything yourself. HP handles everything for you. They even send you new cartridges when your old ones are about to run out.
I know anybody reading this just rolled their eyes when they saw "subscription". It's not a contract. It's a subscription that you can literally cancel at any time. And your unused prints "rollover" to the next month. Pricing is $2.99/50 prints, $4.99/100 prints, and $9.99/300 prints. You pay monthly. That's 6, 5, or 3 cents per page to print, and it doesn't make any difference if you're doing color, B&W, photos, letter size, legal. Just "pages". It's a seriously awesome offer and very surprising coming from HP.
There are only certain printers that work with it, although it looks like HP's looking to make all of their new consumer level printers work with the programs. It's a really simple way of making a printer selection, as you can just choose whichever one fits your price and feature needs, as opposed to worrying about ink costs. The printers it works with that I know of are;
HP OfficeJet 4630 - Basic All in one printer. Print/copy/scan/fax with wireless. Slow, less than 10 pages a minute, and no extra features, but it gets the job done and it's pretty small. Runs in the 99$ range.
HP Officejet Pro 6830 - The nicer, more reliable, sleeker version of the 4630. Great feature list in a somewhat compact size. Typically $129-179
HP Officejet Pro 8610/20/30 - The king. Seriously, the fucking king of consumer level inkjet printers. I wouldn't recommend instant ink with it however, as the page yields on the ink are so amazing that you're actually better off buying ink.
HP 4500/5530 - Print/Copy/Scan machine (No fax) that are more compact and sleek than the other options. Slowish speeds, but feature heavy and quiet. $79-130.
I would recommend the 5530 if you don't need/want a fax (Which means you lose auto document feeder for scanning), 4630 if you need a space saver with every function but not the features, and the 6830 if you need the features but you're strapped on space. As stated, 8610/20/30 is king.
"I print, sometimes a decent amount, and have to have color"
There's really only one option in this category now. It's the HP 8610 series or go home at this point. I've seen it as low as $99, it gets every feature you could possibly ask for, and the ink yields are incredible. We're talking 2300 pages on a $38 cartridge, and that's OEM pricing. 1.6 cents per page for black and white. 2 sided printing, wireless, eprint, mobile printing, wifi direct, sd cart slots, USB drive slot, wired network connection if it's needed, fax, 50 sheet auto document feeder, expandable for a second tray... Seriously, it's the king. Great speeds too at 19 and 15 pages per minute. Regular price is $200, but you can always find them on sale for 149, sometimes 129, and right now 99. You could get them for 69 a couple weeks ago. I almost bought one for myself and I have absolutely no need for it.
There are two other options in the 8610 series, which are the 8620 and 8630. The 8620 adds some size to the flatbed scanner so you can do legal size flatbed scans, adds some screen size to the LCD display (From 2.65" on the 8610 to 4.3" on the 8620), and it gets slightly faster speeds (About 10%). The 8630 is the 8620 machine but with the accessories added in the box; A second 250 sheet paper tray and a second set of color ink (Worth about $55). For businesses that don't want to buy a huge color laser printer, this is also a fantastic option, but we'll stick with consumer level people for now.
The one thing to keep in mind about the 8610 is the potential "sticker shock" of the ink. You'll be spending a good $95 on a set of ink for it to get the high yield black and the standard colors. This gets you 2300 prints on the black and 700 on each color. That's close to laser printer level yields at the cost of one black toner for pretty much any non-brother printer. It is actually worth it, assuming you print a lot. Generics exist as well, although I wouldn't really recommend generic inks for a machine like this. You can make use of HP's Instant Ink program too, although the ink is a better deal.
----------------------------
There are other manufacturers to choose from obviously, but HP and Brother kind of have those 3 markets (Which make up 95% of consumers) on lock right now. Epson makes some decent office/home printers in their Workforce line, but the comparable HP models are pretty much always slightly lower cost, more reliable, and better built. Canon makes very good laser printers, just as good as Brother, but the toner cost is out of control in comparison. Canon and Epson both make great photo printers, but I decided to leave those out as you're better off just going to service centers for photos nowadays, unless you need to print photos on a very regular basis. Brother makes feature heavy inkjet printers at good price points, but they are the absolute cheapest built printers in the world and the ink costs are very average (Although generic pricing is very good and very easy to find consistently). HP laser printers have nicer build quality than the Brother ones, but when you replace HP toner you're also replacing the drum unit, so the price gets spiked up a bit. Samsung is another option in lasers, but typically overpriced. If you JUST want a color laser printer they have some nice cheap options, but they'll still kill you on toner pricing compared to an inkjet. Lexmark has some options that use a very cheap ink (Literally 5$ for a cartridge), but they went out of business so it wouldn't be a good long term option.
-------------------------------
Hope SOMEBODY reads enough of that to help themselves with
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
A few things about printers since there's a lot of misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread;
Hope SOMEBODY reads enough of that to help themselves with
Thanks for the knowledge drop!
GifGafIsTheBestGaf
Member
EDIT: good post^^^
those are a goddamn pain in the ass when they start giving problems, sweet when they work but yeah not worth it at the end. i have to admit im interested because this are from fabric modified to work like this not just some hack job from a dude.
however for the office i ordered a mfc-8710dw and its all good, dont miss the color at all
And that was after years of strugling with aftermarket CISS
The bad thing is, those printers aren't really reliable (anecdotal evidence) as far as i know.
those are a goddamn pain in the ass when they start giving problems, sweet when they work but yeah not worth it at the end. i have to admit im interested because this are from fabric modified to work like this not just some hack job from a dude.
however for the office i ordered a mfc-8710dw and its all good, dont miss the color at all
terrisus
Member
This has been the case for ages.
You really think they're going to give away for free what they're making the most money on?
terrisus
Member
Hope SOMEBODY reads enough of that to help themselves with
This is a very good rundown of information.
That said, in a thread where we have people thinking buying an entire new printer is a better deal than dealing with ink, it may be a bit too much >.>
How much was it? I'm running low on ink.
Oh i know. They work fine for a while but when they fuck up they fuck up big time. That's why i better got a color laser printer and never looked back.
Wish they sourced the information of the graph but...
That's it, next time I have to print something I'll just buy Vodka.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
We have an old Canon AIO. The printer part of it borked a long time and now it's a very heavy and unwieldy scanner. Got a basic HP laserjet and it's been going strong for years.
I want to get another scanner but they're so much more expensive than cheap AIO's (even though they're better).
I want to get another scanner but they're so much more expensive than cheap AIO's (even though they're better).
quickwhips
Member
This. Dell1320cn for 200 have had for 4 years on stock toner.
CrunchyFrog
Member
As a former Office Depot tech salesman, I agree with absolutely everything Doominated said above.
spot on
Got it on sale, I think it was 80 after all was said and done off amazon.
The replacement cartridges are like $14, it's only black and white though.
I've only replaced the cartridge like once in the two years I've had it and that was because the one it comes with is only half full.
Hope SOMEBODY reads enough of that to help themselves with
That was nice, could you recommend me the best cost effective printer for photography? I don't want to print huge photos so a normal sized one is ok, whenever I print poster sized + photos I just go to a specialized place
CadetMahoney
Member
When you buy a printer:
1 - see if it can be hacked for free (none of this fee bullshit scams).
2 - see if it has a CISS (Continuous Ink Systems) available for it and proven to work.
Otherwise do not buy.
My Epson RX560 is hacked and has those CISS (Continuous Ink Systems) installed where I just buy the bottle refills on ebay.
Before I had to spend money traveling to computer fair and get ripped off. I'm sure I've saved much $$$ over the two years since installing it.
1 - see if it can be hacked for free (none of this fee bullshit scams).
2 - see if it has a CISS (Continuous Ink Systems) available for it and proven to work.
Otherwise do not buy.
My Epson RX560 is hacked and has those CISS (Continuous Ink Systems) installed where I just buy the bottle refills on ebay.
Before I had to spend money traveling to computer fair and get ripped off. I'm sure I've saved much $$$ over the two years since installing it.
Doominated
Member
The thing with photo printers is that, unfortunately, none of them really qualify as "cost effective". HP, Epson, and Canon are really the only manufacturers making consumer level photo printers anymore. Assuming you don't want to spend more than $200 anyway.
Each one of them have one "main" high level printer, and they're slightly different in ways that fit different needs;
HP
Photosmart 7520 - $149-199
The 7520 from HP is the oldest of the three I'll be listing, so it's likely to be replaced soon. That being said, I can't imagine much of a different direction being taken by HP with whatever replaces it. It runs a 5 cartridge ink set, three CMY colors and two black cartridges. The main black cartridge is used for your documents and general blacks, while the 2nd black cartridge is a smaller capacity black cartridge that only gets used in Photo prints. It helps product better blacks, greys, and shading than a standard black like you would get in the 7520's little brother, the 6520. It helps give off a little bit of a shine/gloss finish to strong blacks, while fading fairly nicely for shading and greys.
The main advantage the 7520 gets over the other two is that it's a very solid all in one machine in comparison to the options from Canon and Epson. It's proven to be a very reliable machine. It also does sport the highest resolution options, but you have to use HP photo paper to make that work. Otherwise the resolution is comparable to the Canon option.
Ink cost is roughly $70 per set on the cheapest OEM options. You can get generics, but HP goes to extreme lengths to deter generics in their machines. Yield is only about 300 prints for that $70 set, and only rated at 130 prints on the small black photo cartridge.
Epson
Epson Expression 620/820 - $99-149/$149-199
The 620 and 820 are brand new printers from Epson that replace the 610 and 810. They are, for all general purposes, pretty much on par with the 7520 from HP. The main differences between the 620 and 820 are feature related, such as the 820 having an auto document feeder for multi page scans + faxing, but the photo quality is exactly the same between them. The printable resolution is a little different with these, as they print in resolutions up to 5760x1440 instead of the 9600x1200/2400 HP and Canon do. I have no experience with the differences personally, but I'm sure someone into photography would have a better idea on what kind of difference that makes.
Ink cost is just a little bit less than the HP 7520, but we're splitting hairs on that one because we're talking, literally, a couple dollars. On the plus side, Epson has always been a little more lenient about generics than the other two brands, so you're more likely to get away with cheaping out on ink.
Canon
Canon PIXMA 7520 - $149-199
Yeah, it has the same model as the HP photo printer. Not a typo.
I'm a little iffy on suggesting this one just yet; We got them in where I work, only to have them (And its little brother, the 6620) shipped back to the warehouse only a day after putting them on the shelf. Something like that screams manufacturer recall to me, so I don't know if I can say it's a good idea to buy just yet.
That being said, the Pixma 7520 has a card up its sleeve that the HP and Epson printers don't which should, theoretically, allow it to produce better quality prints. The Pixma 7520 uses a 6th cartridge for Grey prints. That would mean its shading, fading, and general quality would see noticeable upgrades over the Epson and HP offerings. Of course, that does mean that you have another cartridge to replace in your set when you run out, which drives prices up.
As far as ink cost goes, you're looking at about $75-80 for a full OEM set. However, the awesome thing about Canon is that there has always been a very dedicated following for creating generics for their machines. While they aren't quite as lenient as Epson are, you're far more likely to get a good set of generics with a Canon printer than you are anywhere else.
---------------------------
Sooooo, in other words...
My personal opinion is that I really, really want to be able to suggest the PIXMA 7520. But having them sent back at work makes me hesitate a lot. The difference between the 620/820 and the HP 7520 are pretty much negligible; I'd lean more toward the 620 assuming you don't need a fax/feeder as it's much cheaper when on sale than the other two options. You're basically saving a full set of ink cost wise and not sacrificing any quality.
Maybe wait a couple weeks to see how the situation with Canon works out, and see if HP releases an update to the 7520; It's out of stock in most places and getting harder to find in general, which indicates a sell-through to clear stock.
This used to be much more cut and dry btw. Usually one of the three would go feature heavy, one would go with the extra grey/black cartridge, and one would go with 2 extra "light" color cartridges to get more vibrant pictures. The last couple cycles they've basically just been imitating each other however and leaving their better quality printers in the $300-500 range. If $300 isn't out of the question and you want more vibrant pictures, you can get the Epson XP-950, but its much more expensive than the other options I listed.
katsubento
Member
A few things about printers since there's a lot of misinformation and lack of knowledge in this thread;
1 - For those who buy new printers when you run out of ink and have a stockpile of printers you don't know what to do with, Staples (And I think Best Buy too, not sure) do free recycling on pretty much all technology. Staples will also give you 2$ credit through their (free) rewards program on each ink cartridge too, and since most machines run quad cartridge sets now, it's an easy 8$. There is a small stipulation where you have to buy at least 30$ worth of ink within 180 days of your recycling to get the credit, but you could always just give the cartridges to someone else who does actually buy ink if you don't plan on doing that.
2 - Buying a new printer every time you run out of ink is NOT economically smart, no matter what way you try to slice it. With the exception of some of Epson's consumer line models, EVERY manufacturer only gives you "starter" ink on their inkjet printers. Depending on the manufacturer, this gives you 10-25% print capacity of the "full" cartridges. On the "disposable" inkjet printers that retail for $35-80, that's typically 20-50 prints at best. You're paying more than a dollar per page, not to mention wasting time setting up a new printer every time you have to print. Instead of just replacing your printer each time you run out of ink, do yourself a favor and spend 15-20 minutes doing a little research to find yourself a halfway decent printer that fits your needs as far as cartridge yield goes. They DO exist.
3 - Someone else mentioned this, but if you don't print "often" but when you do you need more than just a couple pages, never count out the option of going to a service area for it. Places like Staples and Office Depot have self service machines that have flash drive ports and cost 10-12 cents per page to print in B&W. That's a much lower cost per page than buying a new low end printer, even if it were to come with full cartridges. Color is usually 50-60 cents per page, which can get expensive, but still cheaper than the cost of a "cheap" inkjet printer, where they usually kill you on color costs.
4 - The idea that a color laser printer is a more economical choice than a color inkjet printer is FALSE. It's actually the complete opposite in the consumer space. Color Laser printers under the 500-600 price range (And I'm talking PRINTERS, by the way, not All In One machines) typically have 2-3x the cost per page of inkjet all in ones that are close to half the price. The advantage you get with color laser printers is that they're much easier to service/fix than an Inkjet machine, they're somewhat more reliable as far as longevity, toner doesn't "dry out" the way ink can, and they're more consistent with their prints. It's not until you break into business-class level pricing that you'll actually see Laser printers be a "cheaper" option than Inkjet if you have to deal with color.
Just for comparison's sake, we'll compare the Brother 3170C, a color laser printer that you'll typically find in the $199-279 price range, to the HP 8610, an inket all-in-one printer that you'll typically find in the $129-149 range (And currently as low as $99).
Initial Cost - Way in favor of the 8610, by more than 50% in some cases
Functions - Again, in favor of the 8610. It's a full printer/copy/scan/fax/autofeeder for half the cost of the "pure printer" 3170
Features - It's close. They both offer wireless, two sided printing, and mobile printing. But the 8610 gives you the ability to e-mail an order straight to the printer. From ANYWHERE. 8610, again, wins in this category.
Speed - The 3170 wins this one pretty handily. It gets a consistent 23 pages per minute rating regardless of color or black and white, while the 8610 is 19/15. Being that it's a laser printer, it's probably going to spit out the first page quicker than the 8610 can as well.
Print Cost - This is the important part. Going off of MSRP for an entire set of ink/toner, the 8610 completely annihilates the 3170. The 3170 costs just under $300 to get an entire set of toner, which would yield 1400 print per color cartridge and 2500 on the black. The 8610 on the other hand would run you right under $125 for an entire set of ink, and would get you 2300 prints on the black cartridge while yielding 1500 prints on each color. Yeah, you read that right, 125 vs 300 for almost exactly the same yield.
And before anybody says "Well, you can get generic toners for way cheaper!", you can do the same exact thing with the ink cartridges. And they both have the exact same pros and cons to doing so.
5 - Speaking of "drying out", most inkjet machines now a days regularly run a test page or internal sweep test to make sure your ink doesn't dry out on you, as long as it's connected to a power outlet. So it;s not even an "advantage" for laserjets anymore as long as you're not buying a complete piece of crap printer.
ANYWAY, here's a short list of printer options that can fit most consumer level needs, for anybody who does that whole "My ink's out, let me go buy a new printer!" thing. Like I said before, there ARE options that will make it pointless to do that. I'll organize it by user type.
"I print a small to moderate amount, and only in black and white"
If you're in this camp, your best bet at the current moment is one of Brother's base line HL series printers. There are 4 options here, depending on your printing needs, but unfortunately, this series is at its end of life cycle point and is on its way out. They have been extremely reliable machines with great toner price yields for YEARS. Hopefully their replacements follow suit.
You start here with the Brother 2240, which can run you anywhere from $50-100 depending on if you get a refurb or a decent sale. It's the definition of a basic printer; Black and white only, about 20 pages per minute. No special features, no extra functions. It just prints. If you want features like wireless and duplex printing, go for its twin, the HL-2270. It's typically 20-30$ more expensive, but the features are certainly worth it if you need it.
If you need more functions, like copying and scanning, you get 2 (Technically 3) options. The 2280 is the print/copy/scan version of the 2270; literally the same printer with a flatbed copier slapped on top. Usually $100-150, this is arguably the most popular consumer level printer in the US right now. It's fantastically reliable and gives every home feature the standard person needs.There is an upgrade that offers a fax/autofeeder on it known as the 7360, but you lose the wireless and duplex printing features, and it costs $50 more. There's an additional upgrade to that one, the 7860, which is another 50-100 price jump that gets you everything. But, chances are, if you're in this camp, you're not looking to spend $200-300.
The toner on this line is all the same; it uses the TN420 and TN450, which get you 1200 and 2600 pages of yield respectively (You only need one; it's a "low yield/high yield" option scenario). The toners cost between $40-70 for OEM toners, and get as low as $10 each for generics.
As I said, these models are all getting replaced, or in some cases, already have been. Toner costs on the new models remain pretty much the same (Cheaper, if anything), while the initial costs are a little higher ($10-20 usually). It's unknown how reliable the machines are yet though. The new model numbers are 2320, 2360, and the 2700, which replace the 2240, 2270, and 7360/7860 respectively. The 2280's replacement will be the 2520, which isn't out yet.
"I print a small to moderate amount, and need color"
Hear me out on this one, because it's going to sound like a weird way to do ink at first.
HP recently brought out this new program called "Instant Ink". It's a program where, for a subscription fee, you get a certain amount of "prints" per month. You don't have to worry about buying cartridges. You don't have to think about when you're going to run out. You don't even have to monitor anything yourself. HP handles everything for you. They even send you new cartridges when your old ones are about to run out.
I know anybody reading this just rolled their eyes when they saw "subscription". It's not a contract. It's a subscription that you can literally cancel at any time. And your unused prints "rollover" to the next month. Pricing is $2.99/50 prints, $4.99/100 prints, and $9.99/300 prints. You pay monthly. That's 6, 5, or 3 cents per page to print, and it doesn't make any difference if you're doing color, B&W, photos, letter size, legal. Just "pages". It's a seriously awesome offer and very surprising coming from HP.
There are only certain printers that work with it, although it looks like HP's looking to make all of their new consumer level printers work with the programs. It's a really simple way of making a printer selection, as you can just choose whichever one fits your price and feature needs, as opposed to worrying about ink costs. The printers it works with that I know of are;
HP OfficeJet 4630 - Basic All in one printer. Print/copy/scan/fax with wireless. Slow, less than 10 pages a minute, and no extra features, but it gets the job done and it's pretty small. Runs in the 99$ range.
HP Officejet Pro 6830 - The nicer, more reliable, sleeker version of the 4630. Great feature list in a somewhat compact size. Typically $129-179
HP Officejet Pro 8610/20/30 - The king. Seriously, the fucking king of consumer level inkjet printers. I wouldn't recommend instant ink with it however, as the page yields on the ink are so amazing that you're actually better off buying ink.
HP 4500/5530 - Print/Copy/Scan machine (No fax) that are more compact and sleek than the other options. Slowish speeds, but feature heavy and quiet. $79-130.
I would recommend the 5530 if you don't need/want a fax (Which means you lose auto document feeder for scanning), 4630 if you need a space saver with every function but not the features, and the 6830 if you need the features but you're strapped on space. As stated, 8610/20/30 is king.
"I print, sometimes a decent amount, and have to have color"
There's really only one option in this category now. It's the HP 8610 series or go home at this point. I've seen it as low as $99, it gets every feature you could possibly ask for, and the ink yields are incredible. We're talking 2300 pages on a $38 cartridge, and that's OEM pricing. 1.6 cents per page for black and white. 2 sided printing, wireless, eprint, mobile printing, wifi direct, sd cart slots, USB drive slot, wired network connection if it's needed, fax, 50 sheet auto document feeder, expandable for a second tray... Seriously, it's the king. Great speeds too at 19 and 15 pages per minute. Regular price is $200, but you can always find them on sale for 149, sometimes 129, and right now 99. You could get them for 69 a couple weeks ago. I almost bought one for myself and I have absolutely no need for it.
There are two other options in the 8610 series, which are the 8620 and 8630. The 8620 adds some size to the flatbed scanner so you can do legal size flatbed scans, adds some screen size to the LCD display (From 2.65" on the 8610 to 4.3" on the 8620), and it gets slightly faster speeds (About 10%). The 8630 is the 8620 machine but with the accessories added in the box; A second 250 sheet paper tray and a second set of color ink (Worth about $55). For businesses that don't want to buy a huge color laser printer, this is also a fantastic option, but we'll stick with consumer level people for now.
The one thing to keep in mind about the 8610 is the potential "sticker shock" of the ink. You'll be spending a good $95 on a set of ink for it to get the high yield black and the standard colors. This gets you 2300 prints on the black and 700 on each color. That's close to laser printer level yields at the cost of one black toner for pretty much any non-brother printer. It is actually worth it, assuming you print a lot. Generics exist as well, although I wouldn't really recommend generic inks for a machine like this. You can make use of HP's Instant Ink program too, although the ink is a better deal.
----------------------------
There are other manufacturers to choose from obviously, but HP and Brother kind of have those 3 markets (Which make up 95% of consumers) on lock right now. Epson makes some decent office/home printers in their Workforce line, but the comparable HP models are pretty much always slightly lower cost, more reliable, and better built. Canon makes very good laser printers, just as good as Brother, but the toner cost is out of control in comparison. Canon and Epson both make great photo printers, but I decided to leave those out as you're better off just going to service centers for photos nowadays, unless you need to print photos on a very regular basis. Brother makes feature heavy inkjet printers at good price points, but they are the absolute cheapest built printers in the world and the ink costs are very average (Although generic pricing is very good and very easy to find consistently). HP laser printers have nicer build quality than the Brother ones, but when you replace HP toner you're also replacing the drum unit, so the price gets spiked up a bit. Samsung is another option in lasers, but typically overpriced. If you JUST want a color laser printer they have some nice cheap options, but they'll still kill you on toner pricing compared to an inkjet. Lexmark has some options that use a very cheap ink (Literally 5$ for a cartridge), but they went out of business so it wouldn't be a good long term option.
-------------------------------
Hope SOMEBODY reads enough of that to help themselves with
This was very informative. Thanks
DietRob
i've been begging for over 5 years.
Wow.. I didn't think it was possible for someone to write over 3000 words in two separate posts about printers.
Jesus. I promise I'm going to read all of that tomorrow because my printer did just run out of ink 2 days ago but just had to jump in here and say GAWD DAMN.
Jesus. I promise I'm going to read all of that tomorrow because my printer did just run out of ink 2 days ago but just had to jump in here and say GAWD DAMN.
grap3fruitman
Banned
That's how they kept Terminators from being reprogrammed. The printer industry is Skynet.
Messofanego
Banned
I'm glad I finally know this now, cause have been wondering the same thing about cartridges vs printers costs.
Messofanego
Banned
Ok, should buy a Brother mono laser printer, then. £50 doesn't seem that bad, compared to the cumulative price of cartridges we've paid for with crap Canon and HP printers that go busted after a year.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
I was looking at printers...
Anyone know which printer has the cheapest ink option that isn't going to mess up the machine? I put in cheaper ink in my printer and it stopped reading the ink. I'd like that not to happen.
Anyone know which printer has the cheapest ink option that isn't going to mess up the machine? I put in cheaper ink in my printer and it stopped reading the ink. I'd like that not to happen.
Speaking of printers, you know what were awesome?
These guys:
For all the advances of printers since then, nothing makes a nice, long poster like a Dot Matrix printer.
Wow! Going to have to look up a video of that. I remember owning one of these.
Side note: Wait, terrisus was banned? Nooooo!
Yeah a Brother toner cartridge lasted me all four years of college. They're cheap in the long run, print faster, look nicer, and (because I'm strange) smell good too.
Might want to look at service manuals to see about cleaning the nozzles. I've had work printers we resuscitated that way. Cheap ink can clog those up badly. Sadly I'm not sure what ink you really need—usually not worth it to go with the cheapest option IMO.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yep. Got two laser printers. First one was just black. Recently bought colour one. Would never go back to inkjet.
breadtruck
Member
For the same reason console makers sell their systems at a loss. The money is in the support (software, ink, etc)
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Is it how it detects the ink? Like the ink works if it's pressed down. A tape job seems to give it some life, but now it won't ever read the cartridge.
- Status