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[Rran]

SCIV isn't noticeably easier than Super Mario World, Link to the Past, Super Metroid etc. Some people say that it's easier compared to its own prior games but that also applies to the Metroid, Zelda, Punch-Out, and Final Fantasy SNES sequels as well.

Plus, playing SCIV on Hard Mode is a serious challenge comparable to some of the toughest action games in the series (although you have to put in a password to access it).

This is a classic action game and it needs more respect I tell you.

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

SCIV isn't noticeably easier than Super Mario World, Link to the Past, Super Metroid etc. Some people say that it's easier compared to its own prior games but that also applies to the Metroid, Zelda, Punch-Out, and Final Fantasy SNES sequels as well.

Plus, playing SCIV on Hard Mode is a serious challenge comparable to some of the toughest action games in the series (although you have to put in a password to access it).

This is a classic action game and it needs more respect I tell you.

Historically games with arcade roots are punishing to make you burn more money.
At some point devs realize that it makes no sense to gatekeep the full content of the game when the money is already paid in full. So games become less punishing in terms of infinite continues etc.

Edit: Ignore the following that was actually unrelated for Castlevania 4, as IGA was only involved from the tenth title onward.

Also, IGA was famous for stating he makes sure all his games have NO "unavoidable damage". As in if you know what you are doing you can always be able to do 1 hp runs of his games. That was his promise in being "fair" to his players. So maybe once you no longer have fixed lives the game just isn't as deadly.

 

[BennyBlanco]

This may be a hot take but I like Bloodblines better. SCIV still a banger tho.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Have there really been people saying it's easier than LTTP or SMW? I can't believe that. Like, SMW does have some tricky stages, but overall it's quite an easy game if you're even remotely familiar with 2D platformers. LTTP is rather smooth-going though there are a couple places where you need to do some clever puzzle-solving which can leave you stumped for a bit (not hard to solve tho if you're observant). Also some rooms in the final dungeon can be stressful but that's to be expected (and I don't remember Ganondorf himself being super-hard).

SCIV is more consistently challenging than those two games, but it's within their realm of overall challenge I'd argue. Granted, I never played SCIV on Hard Mode. Didn't know it had one. Even so, I generally only look at Normal Mode when discussing a game being hard or easy in relation to other games.

 

[kevboard]

CV4 gets flag for its general design, not necessarily the difficulty.
the omnidirectional whip largely makes items less important for example.

but also Castlevania is a series that was all about precision, timing and harsh difficulty up until then. so imagine in a modern scenario if Fromsoft released Dark Souls 4, and it dramatically reduced the difficulty... that wouldn't be taken well by the fans either. and it would clash with the concept of a souls-like as well.
just like the lower difficulty and changed controls clashed with some of Castlevania's design concepts.

the other games you mentioned weren't about any of that. the main focus of Metroid is exploration and small puzzles, and Super Metroid delivered in that regard for example.

same with Zelda basically...

 

[Rran]

Have there really been people saying it's easier than LTTP or SMW? I can't believe that.

Not specifically, but any time I see this game discussed, by far the most common criticism is that the whip "makes things too easy." Which I always found weird because other beloved SNES games don't get that kind of scrutiny (I rarely hear people complain about SMW's difficulty level).

Honestly I found CV3 too difficult, if anything. At least, the US version where they made it even harder. That final stretch demands perfection.

CV4 gets flag for its general design, not necessarily the difficulty.
the omnidirectional whip largely makes items less important for example.

but also Castlevania is a series that was all about precision, timing and harsh difficulty up until then. so imagine in a modern scenario if Fromsoft released Dark Souls 4, and it dramatically reduced the difficulty... that wouldn't be taken well by the fans either. and it would clash with the concept of a souls-like as well

I'd argue that going from Zelda II (or even Zelda 1) to A Link to the Past was a similar reduction in challenge.

I think there's some truth to the whip's strength but I don't really mind. For me it's kind of like Mega Man's Mega Buster charge making the secondary weapons less useful. It's an adjustment but not a game-breaker IMO. The clock is great, the ax and holy water have their place and the cross is still pretty awesome, especially if you can get multiples.

 

[Kacho]

I never liked Castlevania IV. Dracula X is the better SNES CV.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

fandoms are weird like that, they improved the controls so it plays much better so now it's "too easy".
Same thing happened with cod zombies and you still have people crying about "bring back classic zombies", no thanks bruv it controls like shit if you go back to it; it's also still plenty difficult, just not the masochistic, nobody gets to enjoy this difficulty the gatekeepers cry about.

 

[kevboard]

I never liked Castlevania IV. Dracula X is the better SNES CV.

while true, I don't like that one either, for the sole reason that Rondo of Blood exists, and is the same game but better.

 

[TerribleAtThisGame]

It might stem from the opening few levels being legitimately very easy. It ramps up after that and gets pretty hard as well. It's just that the first impression especially coming from CIII feels way different. Imo at least.

 

[Kacho]

while true, I don't like that one either, for the sole reason that Rondo of Blood exists, and is the same game but better.

I was 13 when X hit the SNES and had no clue about Rondo at the time. I knew there was something special about X and that soundtrack is still S-tier. In hindsight though, yeah it's just a stripped down Rondo port.

I didn't play Rondo proper until the PSP remake in 2007.

 

[March Climber]

This may be a hot take but I like Bloodblines better.

I never liked Castlevania IV. Dracula X is the better SNES CV.

Agreed with both of these.

Super Castlevania 4 just always looked and felt off, like someone making a Street Fighter game in the style of Mortal Kombat.

 

[simpatico]

I don't think SCIV is easier than SMW. That's for fucking sure. I think the difficulty is right where it should be. Hard to explain how 'next gen' the game felt when it released. Guess you had to be there.

 

[Kacho]

Agreed with both of these.

Super Castlevania 4 just always looked and felt off, like someone making a Street Fighter game in the style of Mortal Kombat.

Yeah, good way to describe it. I could never quantify why, but it did look and feel off. Didn't feel "tight." It was the only Konami game from that era I didn't click with.

 

[Rran]

Yeah, good way to describe it. I could never quantify why, but it did look and feel off. Didn't feel "tight." It was the only Konami game from that era I didn't click with.

For me it's comparable to Mega Man X--pretty different from the original games but with a lot of neat new wrinkles. Biggest difference is that SCIV never really got a follow-up while MMX got plenty. So SCIV is still unique in its series. I guess you could say all that about Bloodlines as well but for me that one was the one that felt a little "off" for whatever reason.

 

[kunonabi]

The game is absolutely brain dead easy. It's basically a series of stage 1s until you get to the castle and even those aren't much better. The cross is stupidly OP and as cool as the 8 way whip is the enemies aren't designed for it so they all end up incapable of posing any threat.

Super Mario World is super easy too that but that doesn't make sciv any less of a crushing disappointment.

 

[Kacho]

For me it's comparable to Mega Man X--pretty different from the original games but with a lot of neat new wrinkles. Biggest difference is that SCIV never really got a follow-up while MMX got plenty. So SCIV is still unique in its series. I guess you could say all that about Bloodlines as well but for me that one was the one that felt a little "off" for whatever reason.

I have no love for Bloodlines, but it was an undeniably badass game and I'd rank it way above CVIV. It captured that 90s 'tude vibe like Contra Hard Corps (which was SSS-tier).

 

[Rran]

The game is absolutely brain dead easy. It's basically a series of stage 1s until you get to the castle and even those aren't much better. The cross is stupidly OP and as cool as the 8 way whip is the enemies aren't designed for it so they all end up incapable of posing any threat.

Super Mario World is super easy too that but that doesn't make sciv any less of a crushing disappointment.

I don't really get this. The waterfall level (3) has plenty of tricky pits and you have to be pretty consistent to reach the dragon boss without taking too much damage along the way. The stage right after it has that long crushing floor section that requires a fair amount of forethought or else you'll die.

In most of the game, your deaths are going to come from the insta-kill spikes, traps, and pits rather than the enemies so the whip doesn't help with those.

 

[March Climber]

For me it's comparable to Mega Man X--pretty different from the original games but with a lot of neat new wrinkles. Biggest difference is that SCIV never really got a follow-up while MMX got plenty. So SCIV is still unique in its series. I guess you could say all that about Bloodlines as well but for me that one was the one that felt a little "off" for whatever reason.

For me it was always like the Gamecube MM game: Mega Man Network Transmission, when they tried to make a side scrolling experience like the old Mega Man games, but using Battle Network's look. It felt off, Megaman was a stiff 3d model, he moved slow, and he had a weird jump.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

CV4 is boring. And half of it is the game is, in fact, ridiculously easy compared to the NES games.
The level design is much less inspired. Even if the whip wasn't 8-way, the enemies are often too slow and puny to pose any threat, and Simon's jump isn't totally committed like it was before. It's hard to get killed by mobs, and it's hard to completely miscalculate a jump. So the only challenge the game has is in the trap stages, and in some bosses.
Add to that the fact that the game is completely linear and pretty long (even the best speedruns are above 30 minutes). This is one game that would have benefitted immensely from having branching paths like CV3.

Rondo>>>Bloodlines>>>>>CV4.
Heck, I'd even put Game Boy CV2 above CV4.

 

[Bitstream]

Agreed with both of these.

Super Castlevania 4 just always looked and felt off, like someone making a Street Fighter game in the style of Mortal Kombat.

Wow, look at those ray traced reflections

 

[ReyBrujo]

Mostly because SC4 added 8-way whipping which made the game somewhat easier when before you had to jump and aim. However, I heard exactly the opposite, that the sprites are so large many enemies come without notice compared to the NES version.

 

[kevboard]

For me it's comparable to Mega Man X--pretty different from the original games but with a lot of neat new wrinkles. Biggest difference is that SCIV never really got a follow-up while MMX got plenty. So SCIV is still unique in its series. I guess you could say all that about Bloodlines as well but for me that one was the one that felt a little "off" for whatever reason.

the difference with Mega Man X is that it came out after 6 mainline games that all had only iterative changes.
Castlevania 4 was the... well... 4th mainline game in the series. and only the 3rd mainline game to follow the same formula, as CV2 tried and failed at being a proto-metroidvania kinda thing.

Mega Man was pretty stale, and Mega Man X rejuvenated the series with faster gameplay and a more dynamic moveset.

Castlevania didn't really need this. and it shows, as basically no other game in the seires after it tried to be like it. Rondo of Blood and the other linear sequels were way closer to CV3 again, and with Symphony of the Night it finally made a successful transition into the metroid-like action adventure genre, and coining the term metroidvania.

and today, the most revered classic CV games are CV3 and Rondo of Blood, with Bloodlines and CV1 often not far behind.
that shows imo that CV4's changes just didn't jive well with what people want out of a linear Castlevania.
the main fan-group of CV4 are SNES kids that remember it as an impressive launch title for the console.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Mostly because SC4 added 8-way whipping which made the game somewhat easier when before you had to jump and aim. However, I heard exactly the opposite, that the sprites are so large many enemies come without notice compared to the NES version.

The bats are particularly annoying in CV4. Most are hidden above a black background and will swoop down just when you think you're on safe ground.

 

[kevboard]

Wow, look at those ray traced reflections

if they were raytraced, they'd actually look perspectively correct ... who the fuck was responsible for these reflections? did that guy ever see a reflection in real life? wtf?

"yeah, let's squish the reflections! that's how reflections look... right?"

 

[McGILLAZ]

Interesting topic - I have always thought most, if not all of the SNES titles that were "sequels" with the "Super" prefix were considered easier than their NES counterparts, especially Super Castlevania, Super Metroid, Contra III, etc. In my mind some of it comes down to programming as the games themselves are more accessible....and then there's another part of me that has seen from generation to generation of gaming consoles, that games tend to focus more on how they look and play, rather than challenge.....then something like Demon's Souls comes around and flips it all on its head. What do I know!?

 

[Kacho]

Super Nintendo games were just better designed and generally easier because of that.

Not always the case though.

Contra 3 was way harder than the NES games. And Dracula X was a notorious ball breaker.

 

[kunonabi]

Super Nintendo games were just better designed and generally easier because of that.

Not always the case though.

Contra 3 was way harder than the NES games. And Dracula X was a notorious ball breaker.

Unlike the PC engine version funny enough which was also piss easy.

 

[Signalis]

This may be a hot take but I like Bloodblines better. SCIV still a banger tho.

After SoTN, Bloodlines is my 2nd favourite Castlevania game. Got it for my birthday and played the living shit out of it on my Megadrive. I have so many fond memories of it. Still have my Megadrive copy till this day.

 

[intheinbetween]

Loved SCV IV however it felt too clunky, slow movements, heavy jumping.. on the other hand the OST was amazing and almost a launch day title it was quite impressive coming from old Castlevania games on the NES

 

[Feather049]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this lol. I've had many other users on the internet tell me they go as far as to DISLIKE the game because it's TOO EASY. Apparently. I don't get it - I never felt like it was easy (maybe the first stages, but not beyond that) and rather challenging at many times.

The same people I encountered seem to think so due to how you can whip in 8 directions, unlike the previous entries. Which is funny, because that is partially why it's one of the best ones of the classicvanias for me. 8-direction whip is an upgrade for me. I don't understand.

 

[Feather049]

Loved SCV IV however it felt too clunky, slow movements, heavy jumping.. on the other hand the OST was amazing and almost a launch day title it was quite impressive coming from old Castlevania games on the NES

The same can be said for most classicvanias. The physics, movements, and gameplay haven't aged particularly well. They're still great in my opinion, but it's definitely the reason why I enjoy the metroidvania side of the franchise more.

 

[ByWatterson]

This may be a hot take but I like Bloodblines better. SCIV still a banger tho.

Bloodlines is GOATed.

 

[NT80]

I played all sorts of difficult games around that time period and never found CV4 to be easy at all. I remember Stages 3, 4, 8 and the final stage being brutal. I thought it was a great game and really liked the innovation of the new whip mechanics. I never owned the NES CV's so was only able to play CV1 most of the way through and a bit of CV2 but the gap between playing those and 4 was a bit too long for me to directly compare.

SOTN is a CV that's too easy. I wish that were harder and had better bosses.

CV Rebirth is brilliant but overlooked.

I need to play Rondo of Blood to see what the fuss is about as well as Bloodlines and Chronicles. Isn't Chronicles supposed to be stupidly hard?

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

IMO SC4 is not easy. It's just easier than the previous games because of its better controls. Simon moved like a disabled man in the original Castlevania, don't even get me started on the fucking medusas or the scythe boss. Annoying is an understatement.

Anyway, if you want a really hard Castlevania, try Haunted Castle, the arcade machine game. THAT is hard.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Bloodlines is probably a bit better but I still think IV is a classic.

Rondo is better than both.

 

[kevboard]

IMO SC4 is not easy. It's just easier than the previous games because of its better controls. Simon moved like a disabled man in the original Castlevania, don't even get me started on the fucking medusas or the scythe boss. Annoying is an understatement.

the controls weren't better, they were simply different.

the games immediately after CV4 went back to the old controls.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

I'll never understand the "they made the controls too good, now it's bad" argument. The aesthetic, the music, the art direction: everything was on another level. Treasure knocked it out of the park with that one. It will always be my favorite Castlevania.

 

[kevboard]

I'll never understand the "they made the controls too good, now it's bad" argument. The aesthetic, the music, the art direction: everything was on another level. Treasure knocked it out of the park with that one. It will always be my favorite Castlevania.

it's not about good or bad controls. they fundamentally changed the controls, which created a completely different feel and a completely different way to approach basically any obstacle.
and that change clashed with the typical design of Castlevania at times.

imo Rondo of Blood controls way better than CV4, but Rondo of Blood returned to the general feel and style of controls of CV3. so the quality of the controls is not the issue, and I'd argue CV4 controls worse than CV3 in some ways, particularly when you have to swing with the whip

 

[AngelMuffin]

I think it has the perfect amount of challenge.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Castlevania IV and Bloodlines were amazing games. Konami in peak form for both of these. Dracula X not so much. A bastardized port, like Metal Gear on the NES. Zero reason to play it today with easy access to Rondo of Blood (which was Konami in peak form again).

 

[Sorcerer]

4 is super easy, it cannot be denied, able to clear it twice in a row withought losing a life. The whip while tons of fun, just breaks the game.

I'll never forget that one stage that consists of broken stairs one has to leap across to traverse to the bottom. I simply leaped all the way to bottom, effectively skipping the entirety of that section.

That being said, the whip and the ease of the game make the game super enjoyable, great graphics for the time and a fun, goofy sense of humor in spots. Also loved that the character models were huge compared to CastleVania on the Nes.

I loved the game so much it got me through the entire winter, and part of spring when it came it out.

 

[Dacvak]

I just played through Super Ghouls and Ghosts, and I can tell you wholeheartedly that that game is BULLSHIT.

The amount of time I spent on the last level (after I looped back to the beginning once) was about 5x more than I spent with the entire rest of the game. It's beyond brutal.

Between that and The Lion King, Super Castlevania might as well be a Kirby game.

 

[joey Dubs]

It will always be my favorite Castlevania despite its flaws.

 

[sigmaZ]

I'll never understand the "they made the controls too good, now it's bad" argument. The aesthetic, the music, the art direction: everything was on another level. Treasure knocked it out of the park with that one. It will always be my favorite Castlevania.

Yeah. I like the play baseball with broken arms because it ups the challenge cause I'm hardcore like that and it makes me feel special.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I just played through Super Ghouls and Ghosts, and I can tell you wholeheartedly that that game is BULLSHIT.

The amount of time I spent on the last level (after I looped back to the beginning once) was about 5x more than I spent with the entire rest of the game. It's beyond brutal.

Between that and The Lion King, Super Castlevania might as well be a Kirby game.

The Lion King isn't that hard. I beat it several times as a kid. Of course it took some time, but it was a fine game. Yes, the difficulty ramped up a bit in the later levels and figuring out the final level wasn't easy, but when you get it, you can't lose.
Super GnG… eh, it's GnG. I somehow managed to beat the first loop back then, but not the second. Never made it without savestates.

CV4 though? When I first emulated it, I remember getting to the castle first try without using continues. While to this day, I can't even beat stage 3 of the original CV consistently.

 

[Sticks]

Never liked the look so never finished it

 

[Ozzie666]

The music is still epic. The slow down's at the time of release increased the difficulty

The game is still great. But as I've gotten older I liked Blood lines more and Rondo is just fantastic.

Did people complain or argue this much when SOTN came out and totally changed the forumula?

 

[Dacvak]

The Lion King isn't that hard. I beat it several times as a kid. Of course it took some time, but it was a fine game. Yes, the difficulty ramped up a bit in the later levels and figuring out the final level wasn't easy, but when you get it, you can't lose.
Super GnG… eh, it's GnG. I somehow managed to beat the first loop back then, but not the second. Never made it without savestates.

CV4 though? When I first emulated it, I remember getting to the castle first try without using continues. While to this day, I can't even beat stage 3 of the original CV consistently.

Yeah, Lion King actually isn't too bad once you know what to do. I just remember getting super stuck on the Scar fight, not knowing that there was some weird controller input you had to do to just toss him off the edge.

Super GnG is actually relatively easy on the first loop. There are obviously a lot of BS deaths that are completely unavoidable until you know they're coming, but it's about the same difficulty as a Mega Man game. But good lord, the last level (before the true final boss) on that second loop is INSANE. The game forcing you to use that dogshit princess bracelet weapon turns that stage from a reasonably difficult experience to an absolute mountain of frustration.

It took me, no joke, probably 8 hours JUST to beat that stage on the second loop. (And then I one-shot the final boss right afterwards, no deaths.) It would have been easy if I had used savestates, since the difficulty also comes from the sheer amount of RNG it takes just to get another shot at the second-to-final boss, but I was determined to raw dog it.

I'm trying to think of another SNES game that has ever given me that much trouble, and I'm drawing a blank.

 

[kunonabi]

The music is still epic. The slow down's at the time of release increased the difficulty

The game is still great. But as I've gotten older I liked Blood lines more and Rondo is just fantastic.

Did people complain or argue this much when SOTN came out and totally changed the forumula?

Backlash from the old heads like me was minimal and didn't start getting more vocal until it was obvious we were never getting challenging classicvania games again.