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[shawnbuddy]

There is no queer subtext in the Cap/Bucky relationship, and I feel like I need to say "I told you so" that Gunn's comments were purely hypothetical, not a promise or a plan.

Marvel isn't going to turn perform a sexuality flip on an established character. Disney is not the company to expect this from.

Edit: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1367431&page=1

The old thread is filled with people jumping to the same conclusion on a weak PR response.



He did not remotely hint that there was a gay character, only broadly that there could be gay characters at some point in the future.

Not ruling it out =/= confirmed

He walked it back, probably because what's on screen is embarrassingly weak sauce, but he could only have been referring to the line when he gave this response when asked if Guardians had a gay character:

As reported by /Film, James Gunn made an interesting statement about the film when asked if he’d ever considered adding an LGBTQIA character to the Guardians franchise saying, “Absolutely. I would love to be able to. We might have already done that. I say watch the movie. Check it out. See what you think.”

https://www.themarysue.com/gotg-vol...-not-that-you-can-tell-from-the-actual-movie/

 

[Smoolio]

Yeah pretty crap, and disheartening. And here I was hoping for lesbian Elsa.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I would rather have scenes of the characters living their lives/experiencing their conflicts than being told through dialogue about their problems. Even Zack's bedridden mom got some screentime.

And because her dialogue was inconclusive, she isn't even really trusting the group with anything. Perhaps in the next movie!

I prefer what they did to forcing in a romantic relationship in a movie that clearly doesn't want to have any just to say "she's gay/bi/fluid"

You can't compare Zack's mom to adding a girlfriend just to say see Trini's queer.

Again if everyone was having romantic relationships and Trini had nothing but that scene that'd be different.

Also the Trini/Rita scene was hella Saphic too.

 

[duckroll]

I meant what reason do they have for doing it. Obviously places like Christian and Islamic countries do it for religious reasons. Taoism is the main religion of China and does not hate LGBT as far as I know.

Bigotry is the next main suspect but I would think with their overpopulation and the fact that they're trying to take title of the worlds leader from the US that they wouldn't have much of problem with LGBT. It's foreigners they hate.

That's a misunderstanding of homophobia. Homosexuality is not frowned upon because of religious reasons. It is frowned upon because it is seen as unnatural because it is different. It is because it is seen as unnatural and different, that it became demonized in religious viewpoints to begin with, not the other way round.

Conservative mindsets are built upon reinforcing the safe boundaries you grew up in, and rejecting anything outside of that as bad influence or "the other". It is the basis for most bias - homophobia, xenophobia, and expressed as racism, intolerance, nationalism, etc. Religion is a convenient excuse, but all these can and do exist in the absence of religion as well.

 

[MisterHero]

I prefer what they did to forcing in a romantic relationship in a movie that clearly doesn't want to have any just to say "she's gay/bi/fluid"

You can't compare Zack's mom to adding a girlfriend just to say See Trini's Queer.

Again if everyone was having romantic relationships and Trini had nothing but that scene that'd be different.

Also the Trini/Rita scene was hella Saphic too.

Being queer can be an identity issue rather than a relatioship too. They could've had something involving her parents, disagreeing with some homophobic bullies, or having issues with people with working relationships. But nope, pee in the cup. Lol.

I can read that scene with Rita the same way. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

It's a $100 million dollar movie. They can do better than this.

I've argued in the past that fucking Day of the Dumpster handled the kids better than this 2017 movie. But that comes from the TV kids knowing each other for possibly years and not forcing the Movie kids to learn everything in 11 days. That's a writing/pacing issue though.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Being queer can be an identity issue rather than a relatioship too. They could've had something involving her parents, disagreeing with some homophobic bullies, or having issues with people with working relationships. But nope, pee in the cup. Lol.

I can read that scene with Rita the same way. I'm not sure what to make of it though.

It's a $100 million dollar movie. They can do better than this.

But like she's seemingly not out at school or to her parents...

Yes I know they could have written it differently but it's not her defining characteristic and it's not her only problem in life... which imo is why that scene is awesome.

She's not the Queer Ranger, she's the Ranger who happens to be Queer.

Now if they start having relationships for everyone but her and/or give her a boyfriend in a sequel (that we'll probably never get) then we can say that this scene was nothing but right now it was a well excuted moment.

Also the pee in the cup moment was that she did actually tell them the truth.

 

[Chichikov]

Wait China bans LGBT in their movies? Why the fuck do they do that?

No they don't.
I mean, they have censors and a tight control over what foreign films get released in China, but there are gay films made in China, and foreign films with gay characters have been shown in the mainland. Fuck, even Moonlight got screening at the Beijing Film Festival (it's unclear if it gets a wide release though).
I have no idea about what it takes to get a movie approved for a release in China, and it is possible that having a gay character reduce your chances, but to say that having one prevents you from being there is flat out wrong.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Also I'm not really convinced it was the Power Rangers marketing that pushed this..

Reading around it seems to me it was the media attending advanced screenings and reacting and reporting on the scene and then reaching out for comments from the director and actor.

Which means it was not a marketing gimmick or false promise just a great scene in the movie.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

No they don't.
I mean, they have censors and a tight control over what foreign films get released in China, but there are gay films made in China, and foreign films with gay characters have been shown in the mainland. Fuck, even Moonlight got screening at the Beijing Film Festival (it's unclear if it gets a wide release though).
I have no idea about what it takes to get a movie approved for a release in China, and it is possible that having a gay character reduce your chances, but to say that having one prevents you from being there is flat out wrong.

Well the I guess the article is wrong then.

In Gunn’s defense, this situation is only partly his fault. If a blockbuster like Guardians of the Galaxy had a gay protagonist, it wouldn’t get released in China, a highly desirable overseas market.

 

[jwk94]

I'll disagree with what some said about Power Rangers. IMO PR Movie Trini should've been shown in a non-conforming relationship, not a weaksauce talking point. I go to movies to be shown something, not to be talked at.

I wonder if David Yost would agree to make Billy gay in the TV show, should he return. It would be like "He's been here all this time, and all those years as a Ranger/Mentor he still wasn't sure of who he was." Perhaps more than ever, kids have to deal with being LGBTQ+, the same applies to adults. It could be something great that PR dealt with. Probably not as cool if Sentai has tackled it already...

These kids/adults do NOT need countries in the world trivializing their issues by censoring our entertainment for them. Fuck those countries, and the TV/movie makers who have too much money but can't communicate the right thing.

Last we heard, Billy stayed on Aquitar to be with one of the Aquitian women. If he returned, and they wanted to scrub that relationship, he'd probably be bi.

 

[Chichikov]

Well the I guess the article is wrong then.

Anybody that claim to know exactly what chinese censors will do and based on what factors is straight up lying.

But when in doubt, throw LGBTQ people under the bus.

And to be clear, I'm not defending China's strict limitation on film release, and honestly, it's only fairly recently that showing gay people on films became acceptable there, so it's something to be proud of. I just don't think that there is a whole lot of evidence that having a gay characters in Marvel film will automatically get it banned in China.

 

[Escape Goat]

Power Rangers did it well.

Lol no.

 

[rackham]

I don't think saying a minority character needing to be well written is a bad thing to say. Hell, everything needs to be well written.

I'd rather have nothing than a stereotype of some minority

 

[excelsiorlef]

Lol no.

There's been good discussion in here on why or why it wasn't... Feel like adding to it?

Power Rangers shouldn't even count as an example in this story... it was the press talking about the scene after they watched advanced screenings that made it a big deal, not the Filmmakers talking it up ala Condon or answering questions about queer representation and fucking it up like Gunn.

 

[tearsintherain]

There is no explicit rule in China banning gay characters in movies, however gay characters were banned last year on TV shows along with smoking, adultery, drinking, reincarnation (?), and "abnormal sexual relations including homosexuality or perversion".
https://qz.com/630159/chinas-new-television-rules-ban-homosexuality-drinking-and-vengeance/

There are no strict rules when it comes to Hollywood movies, just that only 34 are allowed in per year (up from 20 a few years ago) and that a small group decides what is allowed and what is not, based on nothing more than what they think the country should see.

A lot of it is probably going to involve back door deals aka bribes/corruption, and a sort of cover your ass to ensure a movie doesn't spark any sort of protest or online outrage, whether its anti government / party, pro western, pro freedom, anti whatever, etc. Basically don't allow anything that would rock the boat and cause the party bosses to literally sentence to death the people who let the movie in.

So yeah, movies like The Martian (china helps!), fast and furious or transformers will get let through, anything that would potentially get anyone in China to question whether the government is bad will never be allowed in. The general feeling is that homosexual characters are ok, but not any sort of gay relationship shown on screen, and only for clearly Western characters to make the point that is what the West is like and China is different.

 

[Escape Goat]

There's been good discussion in here on why or why it wasn't... Feel like adding to it?

Power Rangers shouldn't even count as an example in this story... it was the press talking about the scene after they watched advanced screenings that made it a big deal, not the Filmmakers talking it up ala Condon or answering questions about queer representation and fucking it up like Gunn.

It's lip service at best. Its the appearance of being progressive with the least amount of effort given. Sulu being gay? That's cool but so what? Most people probably never even picked up on it. Beauty and the Beast was definitely overblown. Even Mitch and Cam on Modern Family fail to really fully embrace what it is to be gay. They're more sex less roommates than husbands. Remember Will and Grace? For all the good it did I could probably count the number of times Will was in a relation or touched another man on one hand.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's lip service at best. Its the appearance of being progressive with the least amount of effort given. Sulu being gay? That's cool but so what? Most people probably never even picked up on it. Beauty and the Beast was definitely overblown. Even Mitch and Cam fail to really fully embrace what it is to be gay. They're more sex less roommates than husbands. Remember Will and Grace? For all the good it did I could probably count the number of times Will was in a relation or touched another man on one hand.

Meh lip service would imply they had goals to get the gay crowd in with it or something when it's clear it is simply an element of Trini's character rather than her defining characteristic.

It was intended as representing a teenager still exploring and coming to terms with her identity and sexuality. It made her extremely believable.

They weren't setting out to make the world's first cinematic gay super hero... also that said what they didn't do is run from it when asked like Condon and Gad did.

Again they didn't make a big deal out of it, the press after seeing screenings did.

 

[NHarmonic.]

The nature of being a publicly traded company is that you can never have enough money. There's no such thing as too much of it.

Oh i get it, but still. I guess they would be the company in the best position to try and show the world these themes, even if they're taking a "huge risk".

It's just so disheartening in the end. I just want to believe that this company (probably the biggest entertainment company ever) could push this stuff forward but who am i kidding, anyway.

 

[starchild excalibur]

I'm sorry guys, but I saw Power Rangers with my girlfriend and we both totally missed the crux of that scene even with me having read up about it beforehand. The yellow ranger says that she's having problems and the black ranger says "Boyfriend problems?" She doesn't respond. Then he says "Girlfriend problems?"

Did I miss a response after the second part of the question? Am I misremembering that scene? Because in my memory she just doesn't respond at all and nothing else is mentioned of it. Are people reading her silence as an implicit "yes," because this moment was advertised ahead of the movie's release, or did we both somehow miss what should have been an unequivocally clear admission that she's lesbian? If it's the latter, then I'll accept that, but it was honestly unclear to me.

I've even seen people read that the family is into straight conversion therapy as evidenced by her mom telling the yellow ranger to pee in the cup, but the most literal surface reading of that is that she thinks her daughter is on drugs, which can be objectively tested for by peeing into a cup.

 

[AnkiRendan]

I'm sorry guys, but I saw Power Rangers with my girlfriend and we both totally missed the crux of that scene even with me having read up about it beforehand. The yellow ranger says that she's having problems and the black ranger says "Boyfriend problems?" She doesn't respond. Then he says "Girlfriend problems?"

Did I miss a response after the second part of the question? Am I misremembering that scene? Because in my memory she just doesn't respond at all and nothing else is mentioned of it. Are people reading her silence as an implicit "yes," because this moment was advertised ahead of the movie's release, or did we both somehow miss what should have been an unequivocally clear admission that she's lesbian? If it's the latter, then I'll accept that, but it was honestly unclear to me.

I've even seen people read that the family is into straight conversion therapy as evidenced by her mom telling the yellow ranger to pee in the cup, but the most literal surface reading of that is that she thinks her daughter is on drugs, which can be objectively tested for by peeing into a cup.

This is the same thing that happened to me. I knew about the "first queer superhero on the big screen" thing before I watched the movie, and when I saw it I was underwhelmed. I asked my two friends who I watched it with what they thought, and they didn't notice the scene at all.

I really don't feel like that scene was anything to brag about in terms of LGBT representation.

 

[starchild excalibur]

This is the same thing that happened to me. I knew about the "first queer superhero on the big screen" thing before I watched the movie, and when I saw it I was underwhelmed. I asked my two friends who I watched it with what they thought, and they didn't notice the scene at all.

I really don't feel like that scene was anything to brag about in terms of LGBT representation.

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by this scene. If I saw it alone I'd imagine I just missed something, but my girlfriend didn't pick up on it either.

There's nothing wrong with downplaying an LGBT character, but I kinda feel like they hardly wanted to acknowledge it at all. I mean - if I remember correctly - the yellow ranger literally doesn't respond to this question that's posited as a joke by the black ranger.

The movie did a better job showing a character with autism than it did with queer representation IMO.

 

[plagiarize]

For me Power Rangers did it right. It was incidental in the movie, and the film didn't have a romantic subplot, unless I'm remembering it really badly, straight or otherwise.

 

[The Albatross]

The article mentions beauty and the beast as the most infamous example, but they didn't advertise that Gaston's buddy was gay at all. It was completely unmentioned by Disney until people wrote about it online, either with scorn, Glee, or indifference. But I don't think Disney made any mention of it at all in the marketing, advertising, or hype. They just made a gay character and then a bunch of people complained/boycotted and a bunch of people were positive about it and the majority of people didn't care or think any differently.

I haven't seen beauty and the beast so I don't know if it was good or bad, but I don't think they advertised a gay character at all in the marketing.

 

[starchild excalibur]

The article mentions beauty and the beast as the most infamous example, but they didn't advertise that Gaston's buddy was gay at all. It was completely unmentioned by Disney until people wrote about it online, either with scorn, Glee, or indifference. But I don't think Disney made any mention of it at all in the marketing, advertising, or hype. They just made a gay character and then a bunch of people complained/boycotted and a bunch of people were positive about it and the majority of people didn't care or think any differently.

I haven't seen beauty and the beast so I don't know if it was good or bad, but I don't think they advertised a gay character at all in the marketing.

The director Bill Condon is the one who mentioned the gay moment. It may not have been formally mentioned in the marketing, but the director stating it in interviews is basically the same as Disney stating it, themselves.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I meant what reason do they have for doing it. Obviously places like Christian and Islamic countries do it for religious reasons. Taoism is the main religion of China and does not hate LGBT as far as I know.

Bigotry is the next main suspect but I would think with their overpopulation and the fact that they're trying to take title of the worlds leader from the US that they wouldn't have much of problem with LGBT. It's foreigners they hate.

control, the less control you have the less it seems like you have control over the stuff you do