This, this, this one bajillion times. American obession with stereotypes and the whole faux outrages a la "bu, bu, but people is making fun of my tribe, they are laughing at people like me somebody staph theeeeem" is utterly ridiculous and uppity. I am as nerd as they come, and always enjoyed Big Bang Theory, "nerd equivalent of blackface" or not.
Why is the Big Bang Theory so reviled, yet the IT Crowd is considered good?
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This, this, this one bajillion times. American obession with stereotypes and the whole faux outrages a la "bu, bu, but people is making fun of my tribe, they are laughing at people like me somebody staph theeeeem" is utterly ridiculous and uppity. I am as nerd as they come, and always enjoyed Big Bang Theory, "nerd equivalent of blackface" or not.
Messypandas
Member
I watch BBT and enjoy it, but even I accept its dire. Its a show where you get invested in the characters idosyncracies, which is why the joke is funny about windows 7 to everyone but people watching it for the first time. Theres more lulls than highs, but the episodes with leonards mother and Sheldon bonding got some genuine belly laughs from me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_0wXDCU6wM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_0wXDCU6wM
I've thought about it some more, and here's the main difference:
The IT Crowd: The characters being nerds are a means to an end.
The Big Bang Theory: The characters being nerds and an end in itself.
One sets up the punchline, the other is the punchline.
I still say this in appropriate situations. Only my girlfriend gets it, but that's OK.
The IT Crowd: The characters being nerds are a means to an end.
The Big Bang Theory: The characters being nerds and an end in itself.
One sets up the punchline, the other is the punchline.
I still say this in appropriate situations. Only my girlfriend gets it, but that's OK.
VeryGooster
Banned
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
The story arcs from BBT where the characters have to deal with growing out of a self-perpetuated man child stage are the most poignant, possibly because they hit pretty close to home.
For instance, in one of the earlier seasons, there's a female physician Howard meets at a club while trolling for booty. He takes her to work on the promise that she will get to drive a Mars rover by remote. Of course, it all goes horribly wrong and he ends up screwing up a multi billion dollar mission because of it. Who amongst us hasn't tried their darnedest to impress a girl only to have it all go wrong?
Later in that same season, the same girl starts dating Leonard and practically moves in with him, spending so much time at his place that Sheldon starts demanding she pay rent. When she suggests that she and Leonard just stop pretending and move in together for real, it exposes a bunch of commitment issues Leonard has, he being content for the half-arsed status quo to continue. I watched that episode with my then girlfriend (now wife) while we were having the exact same conflict and it gave me all sorts of uncomfortable feels.
Not to mention Howard's arrested development and codependent relationships (his mum, Raj), Raj's crippling social anxiety and dealing with being a brown boy in a dating market where whiteness is the default and Sheldon's grappling with the mundane interactions we all take for granted. Add Penny's nonexiststent acting career, Amy's endearing attempts to make up for a lonely friendless childhood in adulthood (and homoerotic admiration for Penny) as well as Bernadette's obliviousness to so many of Howard's flaws and you get a great show.
That's what the show is about, not some throwaway geek references here and there. If Leonard and Sheldon had a poster of a hot rod up beside their door instead of a replica of the Valyrian steel greatsword Ice, the jokes would work exactly the same way.
But sure, trot out the Bazinga hate if that's your thing.
For instance, in one of the earlier seasons, there's a female physician Howard meets at a club while trolling for booty. He takes her to work on the promise that she will get to drive a Mars rover by remote. Of course, it all goes horribly wrong and he ends up screwing up a multi billion dollar mission because of it. Who amongst us hasn't tried their darnedest to impress a girl only to have it all go wrong?
Later in that same season, the same girl starts dating Leonard and practically moves in with him, spending so much time at his place that Sheldon starts demanding she pay rent. When she suggests that she and Leonard just stop pretending and move in together for real, it exposes a bunch of commitment issues Leonard has, he being content for the half-arsed status quo to continue. I watched that episode with my then girlfriend (now wife) while we were having the exact same conflict and it gave me all sorts of uncomfortable feels.
Not to mention Howard's arrested development and codependent relationships (his mum, Raj), Raj's crippling social anxiety and dealing with being a brown boy in a dating market where whiteness is the default and Sheldon's grappling with the mundane interactions we all take for granted. Add Penny's nonexiststent acting career, Amy's endearing attempts to make up for a lonely friendless childhood in adulthood (and homoerotic admiration for Penny) as well as Bernadette's obliviousness to so many of Howard's flaws and you get a great show.
That's what the show is about, not some throwaway geek references here and there. If Leonard and Sheldon had a poster of a hot rod up beside their door instead of a replica of the Valyrian steel greatsword Ice, the jokes would work exactly the same way.
But sure, trot out the Bazinga hate if that's your thing.
The Blue Jihad
Member
Both shows are pretty mean-spirited, actually. ITC might be a bit more subtle about some things, and as a result, appear more good-natured about its characters, but both shows take a very dim view of their "nerd" anti-characters. For every moment of Moss' understated genius, Roy is a bumbling fool. Jen and Douglass are the very real and very terrifying representation of actual management layers within a corporate IT hierarchy.
BBT follows along similar "horrible human being" tropes. Sheldon is a tragically awful person, though he has grown over the course of the show. Leonard is the worst kind of social outcast (he can function in social situations, but he's a complete asshole). Raj is deranged. Howard started as one of the creepiest, Oedipal sociopaths in recent sitcom memory, but even he's turned a corner with his marriage to Bernadette. Penny is still lousy, even though she tries.
Amy, on the other hand, is probably the only truly good person on the show. She's grown immensely, she's forced Sheldon to grow, provided Penny and Bernadette with a rather insightful mirror...and I'll venture that her relationship with Sheldon is the philosophical heart and core conceptual underpinning of the show: that these people need to grow up, ditch their ill-conceived notions about what the world should be, carve a decent life for themselves, and learn how to be adults. The irony is that it applies to everyone there, not just the four guys.
And I think that's the core difference between ITC and BBT. ITC is very narrowly focused, and benefits from that laser focus. BBT is more of an ensemble piece, like Friends (though I'd say BBT is far more tolerable), with a broader subject matter.
BBT follows along similar "horrible human being" tropes. Sheldon is a tragically awful person, though he has grown over the course of the show. Leonard is the worst kind of social outcast (he can function in social situations, but he's a complete asshole). Raj is deranged. Howard started as one of the creepiest, Oedipal sociopaths in recent sitcom memory, but even he's turned a corner with his marriage to Bernadette. Penny is still lousy, even though she tries.
Amy, on the other hand, is probably the only truly good person on the show. She's grown immensely, she's forced Sheldon to grow, provided Penny and Bernadette with a rather insightful mirror...and I'll venture that her relationship with Sheldon is the philosophical heart and core conceptual underpinning of the show: that these people need to grow up, ditch their ill-conceived notions about what the world should be, carve a decent life for themselves, and learn how to be adults. The irony is that it applies to everyone there, not just the four guys.
And I think that's the core difference between ITC and BBT. ITC is very narrowly focused, and benefits from that laser focus. BBT is more of an ensemble piece, like Friends (though I'd say BBT is far more tolerable), with a broader subject matter.
Currency doesn't exactly make good comedy. The Simpsons these days is full of current references, but it's nothing compared to the old episodes which only relied on subtle, timeless references. (Ones you didn't even need to "get" to enjoy.)
I'm only offended by TBBT because it's a bland, typical American sitcom. "Friends" drained my love of them way back in the '90s, with very few exceptions since then.
The characters in The IT Crowd don't have to "grow up and change". Sentimental nonsense would just dilute the writing.
But I guess that's the difference between shooting for 24 episodes, and shooting for 200 episodes.
NinjaBoiX
Member
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm entertained and sporadically amused by it. It regularly puts a smile on my face, but rarely gets a genuine laugh from me.
But it is kind of shit. It's weird. Like many things I like, I know it's a bit lame, and maybe I shouldn't really like it, but I do.
*ahem*
To me it really doesn't feel like all this character growth is the core of the show, it's more like "these are nerds and they do nerdish things lol" and as time went by they needed new characters and actual growth for the current ones or it would get stale. There are some nice aspects to it, Howard growing up and Amy bringing Sheldon back down to Earth and making him more liveable, but it feels to me like this stuff happens around the core aspect of "nerds, lol". I don't have any issues with "bazinga" and I really wish that people defending the show would be so quick to resort to bringing this up every time.
Without the laugh track, the show would die pretty quickly, whereas IT Crowd would do pretty well without it's laugh track. I mean, people mock the clips of the show without any laugh track, but why? Watch them and tell me why the artificial audience is laughing at every second line.
out0v0rder
Member
Bbt is one of the highest watched shows on tv right now. IT crowd isnt even made anymore. So um.......you wrong OP
I like you, can I add you on Friendface?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
UK Comedy is generally better than the US variety.
Except in the animated department, but that's because of a lack of UK animation more than anything else.
Except in the animated department, but that's because of a lack of UK animation more than anything else.
Tesseract
Banned
you're so wrong, you are shame.
whatever maynes. both shows are good, let's get uppity and draw lines in the sand between disposable comedies!
Yes, TBBT is the one that is written by nerds. Which is why The IT Crowd is better, if we use the quality of nerd-written webcomics as a frame of reference.
Tesseract
Banned
Yes, TBBT is the one that is written by nerds. Which is why The IT Crowd is better, if we use the quality of nerd-written webcomics as a frame of reference.
bbt's writing is advised by scientists, enjoyed by scientists. i guess i don't see why one needs to be better than the other.
Fudgepuppy
Banned
Tesseract
Banned
seriously brah, les just enjoy things and stuff, y'know?
Messofanego
Banned
This thread just reinforced my view of why IT Crowd is so much better and not deserving to be in the same league as TBBT.
TBBT is based in reality, which is why its dumb reference jokes don't stand the test of time like IT Crowd that doesn't rely so much on that. Other people nailed it in that someone doing something nerdy is the joke in TBBT. Not as far as minstrel show but more like "haha laugh at these nerds!", and I don't know any nerds who actually like TBBT.
This is the only clip I find funny in TBBT with the date experiment.
TBBT is based in reality, which is why its dumb reference jokes don't stand the test of time like IT Crowd that doesn't rely so much on that. Other people nailed it in that someone doing something nerdy is the joke in TBBT. Not as far as minstrel show but more like "haha laugh at these nerds!", and I don't know any nerds who actually like TBBT.
This is the only clip I find funny in TBBT with the date experiment.
NinjaBoiX
Member
In one episode, Sheldon is playing RDR with the d-pad. Can you even do that?
I don't know any, so they must not exist at all!
Messofanego
Banned
equippedwithtowel
Member
Because one is better written then the other. Having accurate scientific references in a show is meaningless if you don't use them cleverly. Anyone with the internet could look up the tech side of BBT in fifteen minutes if they wanted to.
This right here is GAF.
AmaterasuOkami076
Member
I think both are pretty great, didn't realise I was in the minority this much. Meh. 
HappyBivouac
Member
I`m starting to think "it`s funny if you know the characters" is a nice way of saying "it`s funny if you like uncreative, predictable, obvious, safe, low-hanging-fruit humor, laughing not because of creative absurdity but because the character says exactly what you expect and you find yourself thinking `oh that is SO Sheldon.`"
In other words, funny if you have a dull sense of humor.
In other words, funny if you have a dull sense of humor.
Father Ted was much better than the IT crowd. Such a pitch perfectly written show. Current cream of the crop though is the recently ended The Thick of it. It's just flat out incredible in every way. Malcolm Tucker is possibly the best written sit com character ever. Of course it also helps that Peter Capaldi is fantastic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjAyazqtQj8 very NSFW. But that's the fun of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjAyazqtQj8 very NSFW. But that's the fun of it.
Tesseract
Banned
a great part of what makes seinfeld so funny is the building continuity. and curb, arrested, bbt, so on. that's all it means.
Dorito Pope
Banned
they're both shit.
come at me gaf.
come at me gaf.
So using a context for a joke make it somehow unsophisticated? In situational comedies it is almost always beneficial to know the characters involved. It's kind of what sitcoms are based on. I imagine that IT Crowd joke above is funny if you know the characters--I certainly don't, and I don't get what's funny about it.
Messofanego
Banned
We don't need to, the doritos already did.
Fattony12000
Member
They are both garbage. As much as it pains me to say that about my one true love, Graham Linehan.
RIP:
Black Books
Big Train
Father Ted
RIP:
Black Books
Big Train
Father Ted
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
This.
There's more character-derived humor than nerd humor.
It's also quite sympathetic to nerd culture *and* rages on it.
It's pretty simplistic sitcom stuff, and it's not great although it amuses me.
I didn't get itno IT Crowd despite generally liking British humor. I should give it another try, although I found the boss-lady and the owner drawn too broad to really enjoy them. My gold standard for the overbearing self-important boss is David Brent, so I suppose that's not fair as Office UK is one of the best TV comedies ever.
Jack Remington
Banned
Hit the nail smack on the head. Most of the jokes in The IT Crowd aren't about the main characters being nerds.
Said the guy who made an account based on a joke that is never getting old anytime soon.
Am I doing this right?
I will admit the new clips of Leonard's Mom and Sheldon definitely reflect better on the show then the absolutely worst clips I have seen.
Evolution_1ne
Banned
" what the flip are you looking at? think this is a mothaflippin joke!"
Moss is legend
Moss is legend
jossueinacoma
Member
I cant be in love if its plastic
Messofanego
Banned
Was hanging out with some buddies, and they asked me what I watch. They asked if I watched TBBT, I don't know probably because I'm a nerd or something. I really wanted to go "bitch please!" but just said its jokes are in the characters being nerds and if I wanted a funny show about nerds I'd watch IT Crowd.
Then they all were nodding in agreement. Even TBBT watchers are aware of the superiority.
Then they all were nodding in agreement. Even TBBT watchers are aware of the superiority.
SpinningBirdKick
Banned
The IT crowd is more authentic, it's TV but it has roots in real geeks/nerd culture.
Big bang is trying to portray geeks/nerds but not from their point of view rather what the public in general thinks they're like.
Big bang is trying to portray geeks/nerds but not from their point of view rather what the public in general thinks they're like.
Use bad language, Moss...
........................BLOPPERS!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjd8HobrTzA
I think this is very much correct.
That's a fairly recent thing, I'd say - other than Aardman's stuff and explicitly young kids' stuff there's really not a lot of UK animation out there, whereas back in the 80's, the kids stuff was brilliantly subversive and appealing to adults, too.
Basically, I want the return of Cosgrove Hall...
...and this guy...
Damn, beat me to it.
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