Support NeoGAF

[SolidSnakex]

Let me put it this way:

Ridge Racer V sold a lot on PS2: 611,507 in 2000 alone (and that's JP only - can't be arsed to find the final figure, I think it was ~750k) and it was also a HUGE hit in EU.

Ridge Racers was a huge hit on PSP (best selling EU PSP launch game, even!).

But Ridge Racer VI, X360 exclusive sold....~30k in Japan and 9k in US.

But getting Ridge Racer 6 was a huge deal man. Don't you remember?

 

[MassiveAttack]

MS Savings & Loan has been good to the impoverished Japanese development community over the years. Companies such as From, Atlus, Artoon, Level 5, Dream Factory and several others have benefited enormously from MS' deep pockets and tendency to overpay on both advances and royalties. Unfortunately, this has played directly into SCEI's hands on several notable occasions.

The theme continues unabated for next-gen only this time Maruyama will get the boot before MS bleeds too badly. Moore should shoulder a lot of the blame as well (has any Western executive spent so much time in Japan?) but it's Maruyama who will take the fall.

C'est la tristesse du temps.

 

[VALIS]

Let me put it this way:

Ridge Racer V sold a lot on PS2: 611,507 in 2000 alone (and that's JP only - can't be arsed to find the final figure, I think it was ~750k) and it was also a HUGE hit in EU.

Ridge Racers was a huge hit on PSP (best selling EU PSP launch game, even!).

But Ridge Racer VI, X360 exclusive sold....~30k in Japan and 9k in US.

Comparing life to date sales to one week sales? AWESOME! THIS THREAD IS AWESOME, TOO!

 

[jarrod]

Actually, we have been seen quite a few unspectacular 360 efforts from JP 3rd parties. So far only Capcom, Tecmo, From and AQ seem to be putting any real effort into their 360 stuff imo. Everything else seems relatively "B" grade or is multiplatform. Thankfully MS seems to be picking up the slack by expanding their JP development partners and funding new interesting projects with industry figureheads. Live Arcade may prove to be a lucrative deal for JP publishers too should it take off.

 

[SantaC]

But Ridge Racer VI, X360 exclusive sold....~30k in Japan and 9k in US.

it really did that bad?

 

[Solid]

Comparing life to date sales to one week sales? AWESOME! THIS THREAD IS AWESOME, TOO!

Why? You think it will pick up? :lol

 

[Izzy]

But getting Ridge Racer 6 was a huge deal man. Don't you remember?

I really hope MS paid Namco for more than just the development cost of RR6. Otherwise, they just killed a big franchise (for free!).

 

[Amir0x]

Comparing life to date sales to one week sales? AWESOME! THIS THREAD IS AWESOME, TOO!

To be fair to Izzy (who of course, is just spinning for Sony)... there's a 0.0000001% chance that Ridge Racer VI will ever come close to matching either PSP or PS2 Ridge sales.

 

[zork007]

It's my understanding that there were only ever a handful of games released for the Dreamcast that used Win CE.

Am I missing something here?, doesnt the Dreamcast operating system use the Win CE kernel?

 

[Srider]

Am I missing something here?, doesnt the Dreamcast operating system use the Win CE kernel?

Yeah, you are missing something. It was optional for the devs to use CE.

 

[Beowvlf]

So Sega just thought it would be a good idea to make a bunch of exclusives for a totally unproven console when their finances were in the toilet out of the kindness of their hearts?

One, MS didn't 'pay' for those exclusives, as others have already pointed out, and two, Sega didn't use any funds from MS towards other games not for the Xbox.

TFLO isn't a great example, as that game was killed thanks to MS rather than Level 5. There's the notion that a lot of the information Level 5 gained from R&D on the project went direct into DQ8/Rogue Galaxy though.

No. Unless of course you mean 'intellectual R&D', which isn't owned or controlled by anyone other than the individuals who possess it in their minds. Every single aspect of TFLO was 100% (or close to) the property of MS, and you best believe they didn't let Level 5 hang onto any of it.

A better example might be Shin Megami Tensei Nine, which MS evidently paid out the nose for, then Atlus farmed the game out to Nextech on the cheap while having R&D1 develop SMT3 PS2 internally with their newfound cash.

Again, NO! Honestly, why do people believe this shit?! There is no company in the fucking world who would do what you just described. Give millions of dollars to a developer and simply hope they do what they said they would... I'm still amazed so many actually believe this not only can happen, but that it did. FFS.

 

[jarrod]

That'll teach 'em. Didnt they see what happen to Capcom? Judas always get punished.

Always?

 

[jedimike]

Let me put it this way:

Ridge Racer V sold a lot on PS2: 611,507 in 2000 alone (and that's JP only - can't be arsed to find the final figure, I think it was ~750k) and it was also a HUGE hit in EU.

Ridge Racers was a huge hit on PSP (best selling EU PSP launch game, even!).

But Ridge Racer VI, X360 exclusive sold....~30k in Japan and 9k in US.

I guess that's what you get when you try to compete with an inferior product against 2 other racers. What was RR PS2 and PSP competing against? Oh yes, they were both the only racing games at their respective launches and were both one of the best games available on their respective consoles. If anything, it just proves how good the launch games for 360 were.

 

[VALIS]

To be fair to Izzy (who of course, is just spinning for Sony)... there's a 0.0000001% chance that Ridge Racer VI will ever come close to matching either PSP or PS2 Ridge sales.

I agree, but still, comparing LTD sales to sales for one week is quite ridiculous. Give the game a year first before deciding if it flopped.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I guess that's what you try to compete with an inferior product against 2 other racers. What was RR PS2 and PSP competing against? Oh yes, they were both the only racing games at their respective launches and were both one of the best games available on their respective consoles. If anything, it just proves how good the launch games for 360 were.

It competed with NFS, which is basically the biggest racing series outside of GT.

 

[MassiveAttack]

Again, NO! Honestly, why do people believe this shit?! There is no company in the fucking world who would do what you just described. Give millions of dollars to a developer and simply hope they do what they said they would... I'm still amazed so many actually believe this not only can happen, but that it did. FFS.

Err, what you just described happens with regularity in Japan. There is a rather fantastic example of this involving Vivendi Universal but I won't get into it unless someone here wants to hear more about it. That said, Jarrod is correct.

 

[Izzy]

it really did that bad?

Yes.

Namco's projection (for JP alone) was 500k. 470k to go!

 

[zork007]

Yeah, you are missing something. It was optional for the devs to use CE.

Im only asking, if the operating system is based on CE how can it be optional?

 

[jarrod]

No. Unless of course you mean 'intellectual R&D', which isn't owned or controlled by anyone other than the individuals who possess it in their minds. Every single aspect of TFLO was 100% (or close to) the property of MS, and you best believe they didn't let Level 5 hang onto any of it.

Er, I just meant the gained expertise that went into doing development for TFLO, not the actual assets. Level 5 reps have even commented on how making the game has affected them though and how they plan to do make a new game based on what they did with the project (TFLO 360 perhaps?).

Again, NO! Honestly, why do people believe this shit?! There is no company in the fucking world who would do what you just described. Give millions of dollars to a developer and simply hope they do what they said they would... I'm still amazed so many actually believe this not only can happen, but that it did. FFS.

Well, that's the rumor which has been supported by the j-crew here. And fortunately, their industry connections reach a little deeper than than fake Canadian NPD sources.

 

[Izzy]

I guess that's what you get when you try to compete with an inferior product against 2 other racers. What was RR PS2 and PSP competing against? Oh yes, they were both the only racing games at their respective launches and were both one of the best games available on their respective consoles. If anything, it just proves how good the launch games for 360 were.

Off the top of my head, at EU PSP launch Ridge Racers competed with Wipeout Fusion, Need for Speed, Midnight Club, Collin McRae Rally....which all sold well, but Ridge Racers came on top!

 

[jarrod]

There is a rather fantastic example of this involving Vivendi Universal but I won't get into it unless someone here wants to hear more about it.

I do!! Me! MEEE!!!

 

[Amir0x]

Off the top of my head, at EU PSP launch Ridge Racers competed with Wipeout Fusion, Need for Speed, Midnight Club, Collin McRae Rally....which all sold well, but Ridge Racers came on top!

Speaking of Wipeout, wth are they keeping some of them tracks Euro exclusive. I want them so bad, they looked awesome in that 1up show. And Wipeout is like my favorite PSP game that isn't GTA:LCS

 

[SolidSnakex]

I agree, but still, comparing LTD sales to sales for one week is quite ridiculous. Give the game a year first before deciding if it flopped.

Ridge Racers sold 70k its first week in Japan, followed that up with 30k. RR6 sold 25k its first week in Japan, and followed that up with around 7k. Ridge Racers sold 90k its first month in the US, Ridge Racer 6 sold 9k its first month.

 

[Acosta]

Given that with money Atlus took from MS they were able to do Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne, I would hay: I hope so!

Only joking I don´t think any japanese developer has robbed any money from MS, just that their project didn´t go well, that happens every place. I tink there will be very interesting japanese games for Xbox 360.

 

[jarrod]

Off the top of my head, at EU PSP launch Ridge Racers competed with Wipeout Fusion, Need for Speed, Midnight Club, Collin McRae Rally....which all sold well, but Ridge Racers came on top!

How well actually... this might be the best comparison for RR6? Do we have any idea how well RR6 sold in Europe either?

RR PSP did pretty well in America, but it got spanked by NFSUR overall. Had a 3rd high end option been available then (a la PGR3) RR probably would've been negatively impacted... how well did RR/NFS PSP sell in March and how well have RR/NFS/PGR 360 sold?

 

[jedimike]

Off the top of my head, at EU PSP launch Ridge Racers competed with Wipeout Fusion, Need for Speed, Midnight Club, Collin McRae Rally....which all sold well, but Ridge Racers came on top!

I find it hard to believe that all of those racers were available for the PSP launch... even if they were, only NFS and Midnight Club would be considered "competition". And again, RR is arguably the best of the available racers. The same can not be said of the 360 launch.

 

[Solid]

Always?

When they come to Sony it's for the better

Nah but seriously, maybe not always, but when you change your back on your biggest fanbase you're asking for trouble.

 

[Izzy]

Speaking of Wipeout, wth are they keeping some of them tracks Euro exclusive. I want them so bad, they looked awesome in that 1up show. And Wipeout is like my favorite PSP game that isn't GTA:LCS

Perhaps as an incentive to purchase a Euro PSP?

In the next few months we'll be getting Lemmings, Tales of Eternia and BOFV. And maybe even more bonus WF tracks!

 

[Izzy]

How well actually... this might be the best comparison for RR6? Do we have any idea how well RR6 sold in Europe either?

RR PSP did pretty well in America, but it got spanked by NFSUR overall. Had a 3rd high end option been available then (a la PGR3) RR probably would've been negatively impacted... how well did RR/NFS PSP sell in March and how well have RR/NFS/PGR 360 sold?

I'll only tell you the UK number because it's public. 1/5 of new PSP owners purchased RR at the UK PSP launch. Now that's very impressive - especially considering the competition (in the same genre, no less!).

 

[MassiveAttack]

I do!! Me! ME!!!

Here it is: As you might recall, Vivendi had a "Fast and the Furious" game in development for PS2/XBOX which they showed at E3 2003. They had contracted with Genki to develop the game but unbeknownst to Vivendi's American executives, Genki outsourced development of the game to a small team called Graphics Research. I don't want to get into how horrible Graphics Research is, but rest assured it is akin to commiting development suicide. Genki never informed Vivendi of who was actually handling development duties and with the US producer only dropping by every few months, it was easy to sweep such formalities under the rug.

Net result was that the game was canned after a year or so of work and the producer fired after it was discovered that he was aware of what was going on but failed to inform his bosses.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Here it is: As you might recall, Vivendi had a "Fast and the Furious" game in development for PS2/XBOX which they showed at E3 2003. They had contracted with Genki to develop the game but unbeknownst to Vivendi's American executives, Genki outsourced development of the game to a small team called Graphics Research. I don't want to get into how horrible Graphics Research is, but rest assured it is akin to commiting development suicide. Genki never informed Vivendi of who was actually handling development duties and with the US producer only dropping by every few months, it was easy to sweep such formalities under the rug.

Net result was that the game was canned after a year or so of work and the producer fired after it was discovered that he was aware of what was going on but failed to inform his bosses.

That's some high level ownage by Genki. :lol

 

[BlackClouds]

MS actually didn't even "pay" directly. They just offered SEGA a hugely attractive royalty rate (and some free advertising) in exchange for 12 Xbox exclusives to be released over the platform's lifetime... and as usual SEGA ended up getting screwed since their games didn't perform at retail (besides Sports and Sonic ports).

MS did fund the Xbox ports of Shenmue II and PSO 1&2 directly though.

And I hear that M$ repayed Sega for the JSRF/Sega GT bundle. At least Sega was claiming to be getting money from that deal. Hard to imagine Sega lost money on the deal.

 

[AirBrian]

Here it is: As you might recall, Vivendi had a "Fast and the Furious" game in development for PS2/XBOX which they showed at E3 2003. They had contracted with Genki to develop the game but unbeknownst to Vivendi's American executives, Genki outsourced development of the game to a small team called Graphics Research. I don't want to get into how horrible Graphics Research is, but rest assured it is akin to commiting development suicide. Genki never informed Vivendi of who was actually handling development duties and with the US producer only dropping by every few months, it was easy to sweep such formalities under the rug.

Net result was that the game was canned after a year or so of work and the producer fired after it was discovered that he was aware of what was going on but failed to inform his bosses.

Wow. :lol

 

[jedimike]

And I hear that M$ repayed Sega for the JSRF/Sega GT bundle. At least Sega was claiming to be getting money from that deal. Hard to imagine Sega lost money on the deal.

Why wouldn't MS pay Sega for the bundle? MS is selling Sega's games... shouldn't Sega be compensated?

 

[xaosslug]

Always?

isn't that a dif. situation? i always thought Nintendo screwed them. so they walked away.

 

[bud]

Impressive draw-distance.

 

[Shard]

isn't that a dif. situation? i always thought Nintendo screwed them. so they walked away.

It was more philisopical differences then anything else (Cart Vs. CD) that forced Nintendo and
Square to part ways.

Oh, and one could say Square was punished, not so much for doing work on the Playstation, but for TSW.

 

[jarrod]

Here it is: As you might recall, Vivendi had a "Fast and the Furious" game in development for PS2/XBOX which they showed at E3 2003. They had contracted with Genki to develop the game but unbeknownst to Vivendi's American executives, Genki outsourced development of the game to a small team called Graphics Research. I don't want to get into how horrible Graphics Research is, but rest assured it is akin to commiting development suicide. Genki never informed Vivendi of who was actually handling development duties and with the US producer only dropping by every few months, it was easy to sweep such formalities under the rug.

Net result was that the game was canned after a year or so of work and the producer fired after it was discovered that he was aware of what was going on but failed to inform his bosses.

Wow... got any other stories?

And I hear that M$ repayed Sega for the JSRF/Sega GT bundle. At least Sega was claiming to be getting money from that deal. Hard to imagine Sega lost money on the deal.

The bundle was a show of good faith on Microsoft's part after all SEGA's big new Xbox exclusives started failing. SEGA did get paid certain rate for each copy of their games bundled, but I doubt it was nearly enough to cover all their R&D costs for the platform. Make no mistake, SEGA still lost money on Xbox and some of their teams took hits as a result too (Smilebit, TJ&E Productions).

isn't that a dif. situation? i always thought Nintendo screwed them. so they walked away.

Nintendo screwed everyone back then. That said, Sony's no angel these days either.

 

[Beowvlf]

Here it is: As you might recall, Vivendi had a "Fast and the Furious" game in development for PS2/XBOX which they showed at E3 2003. They had contracted with Genki to develop the game but unbeknownst to Vivendi's American executives, Genki outsourced development of the game to a small team called Graphics Research. I don't want to get into how horrible Graphics Research is, but rest assured it is akin to commiting development suicide. Genki never informed Vivendi of who was actually handling development duties and with the US producer only dropping by every few months, it was easy to sweep such formalities under the rug.

Net result was that the game was canned after a year or so of work and the producer fired after it was discovered that he was aware of what was going on but failed to inform his bosses.

That's a nice story and all, and not saying you're lying or anything, but I willing to bet a lot of money that there is far more to this story than what you've stated here.

Why? See the word I bolded. Exactly. Breach of contract, contract evasion and negligent business practice lawsuits would've put Genki out of business so fast our heads would spin. If this went down exactly as you say it did, where are these lawsuits? Why is Genki still in business? Did Vivendi simply accept an apology? A producer getting canned is small potatoes compared to what would be within VU's rights if this 'scenerio' actually happened.

This is simply common sense.

 

[Hydro_Alexis]

Some of you disgust me! firstly namco is showing every japense developer what footsteps to follow! ridge racer launch game that shows full support and with classic's such as the football game and the GOTY 2006 that is going to be frame city killer (gonna be the new gta in terms of sales mark my words) it is a good time to be a x-box fan nintendo and sony wont even drop they next generation consoles till 2007/8 so its all good hail microsoft !!!!

 

[Blimblim]

Some of you disgust me! firstly namco is showing every japense developer what footsteps to follow! ridge racer launch game that shows full support and with classic's such as the football game and the GOTY 2006 that is going to be frame city killer (gonna be the new gta in terms of sales mark my words) it is a good time to be a x-box fan nintendo and sony wont even drop they next generation consoles till 2007/8 so its all good hail microsoft !!!!

Words fail me.

 

[urk]

First they came for the Xbots, and I did nothing.

 

[Matlock]

Some of you disgust me! firstly namco is showing every japense developer what footsteps to follow! ridge racer launch game that shows full support and with classic's such as the football game and the GOTY 2006 that is going to be frame city killer (gonna be the new gta in terms of sales mark my words) it is a good time to be a x-box fan nintendo and sony wont even drop they next generation consoles till 2007/8 so its all good hail microsoft !!!!

You invoked the Nazis, and didn't even use the right picture. For shame!

 

[Patrick Klepek]

To Ridge Racer 6's credit, it did come out alongside a hardware launch that also had Need For Speed and Project Gotham Racing 3. Who in their right mind outside of the hardcore would buy Ridge Racer? That wasn't an option with PS2/PSP. Unfair comparison.

 

[xsarien]

Some of you disgust me! firstly namco is showing every japense developer what footsteps to follow! ridge racer launch game that shows full support and with classic's such as the football game and the GOTY 2006 that is going to be frame city killer (gonna be the new gta in terms of sales mark my words) it is a good time to be a x-box fan nintendo and sony wont even drop they next generation consoles till 2007/8 so its all good hail microsoft !!!!

It's "Heil." If you're going to callously invoke one of the worst tyrants in the last century just to pledge support to a fucking video game console, at least have the common decency to check your spelling.

 

[Sysgen]

Some of you disgust me!
.
.
.

How apropos.

The worst thing though is that the mod on duty has not banned you yet.

 

[VALIS]

It's "Heil." If you're going to callously invoke one of the worst tyrants in the last century just to pledge support to a fucking video game console, at least have the common decency to check your spelling.

It's okay dude, you don't have to give him a hard time. He was actually trolling Microsoft. Feel better now?

 

[FightyF]

But getting Ridge Racer 6 was a huge deal man. Don't you remember?

Well it sold to nearly half the 360 owners in Japan. That's pretty awesome if you ask me.

In the States though, Namco has faced stiff competition with NFS and PGR3. Bad timing really.

As compared to the PS2...the launch was pathetic and it was pretty much one of the few titles that you could get that was above average. Same with the PSP.

 

[D2M15]

MS Word fails me.

 

[Mefisutoferesu]

I'm kinda curious about all these contract shenanagins as well. How is it that companies like Genki/Level 5/Atlus were able to escape being slammed with multi-million dollar lawsuits? I mean, have you ever actually seen what goes into the contracts in these multi-million dollar deal? The legalese is mind-numbing. Everything is gone over with a fine-tooth comb by TEAMS of lawyers. It honestly baffles me that the companies got away with this stuff and microsoft did nothing. How is it they even get any work now? I would imagine publishers would be very wary about them pulling another fast one, no? Jarrod, Massive can you guys sort this out for me a bit? Many thanks, as I imagine it'll be a heck of a long post.