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Will Sheff (Of Okkervil River) talks file sharing

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GilloD

Banned
http://jound.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=6772#6772

I’d like to clarify what Travis is saying about the band’s attitude towards file-sharing.

Over the nine-odd years that we in Okkervil River have been trying to make a living playing music, I’ve developed a kind of love/hate relationship with the world of file-sharing. The first good job I ever had was at the website Audiogalaxy.com, where I drew a respectable salary for writing music reviews and editorials as a kind of not-very-convincing camouflage for what was at the time one of the world’s largest file-sharing networks. At the time, my attitude about file-sharing was that it didn’t particularly hurt artists – most of whom were being ripped off by their labels anyway (it’s a little known fact that very few musicians actually make any money off of record sales) – rather, it helped spread the word about their music to people who, if they liked it enough, would buy the CD. I felt that the party who genuinely had cause to be frightened of file-sharing weren’t the tiny little indie bands but the colossal major labels; if you put out a Britney Spears CD with only one good song on it, I figured, people would just steal the one song and no one would buy the CD. When feeling grand – usually after one or two of the free 20 oz. Mountain Dews available in our office kitchen fridge and a few rounds at the Nerf hoop – I’d imagine a new and digitally reinvigorated world in which sales of major-label behemoths like Britney and Creed would plummet, in which major labels would topple, in which culture would be reinvented as a kind of meritocracy where anyone with artistic ambitions could draw a decent living by setting up a PayPal tip-jar on their little corner of the internet. Don’t laugh – you thought that, too.

About a year later, the RIAA finally came gunning for Audiogalaxy and shut us down. The dot-com crash hit, and everyone started wondering where the money was. I was taken into the special room at my offices – the one with the big, soft leatherette couches, the one reserved for hiring and firing – and fired. I loaded a box with my belongings and a pair of stolen Sony headphones and drove home from the gutted Audiogalaxy offices. A couple of weeks later I cast my lot with Okkervil River, and I headed out on my first major tour. I’ve spent more than half of the intervening five years on the road. After tour upon tour of paying more for gas than we were making at the shows, of skipping meals, of asking people in the sparse crowds we drew if any of them had available floor space where we could spend the night, I’ve finally managed to make it pay enough so that I draw roughly the same salary as a clerk at a 7-11. I use that comparison solely descriptively, as I couldn’t be possibly be happier to be making a living doing what I love. At the same time, with no health insurance and no house and no idea how long my “music career” will last, it’s kind of become everything I have. I try to use that fact as reason to throw all of my energy and my care into every single thing that I do; as a result, my attitude about file-sharing has become more complicated now that it has a direct impact on my life.

I’m not sure if file-sharing impacts our sales enough for it to hurt us. Sometimes I suspect that it does – other times I’m glad people get a chance to be exposed to our music. I do know that there’s a subscription-based service called Sound Scan that all industry professionals – labels, booking agents, promoters, publicists – look at regularly. Sound Scan estimates how many records you’ve sold in stores and over the internet, and it is used to determine how “big” you are. If you’re angling to have the opening slot on a lucrative tour or trying to get signed to a new label and someone takes a look at your Sound Scan numbers and doesn’t like them, it’s over. That’s an aspect of file-sharing that I’m not sure people take into account. In any case, I honestly don’t care quite as much about the commercial implications of file-sharing because they’re basically out of my control and I guess that inside I still do take the view that file-sharing can be radically empowering to fans and that I can trust those same fans to buy the records.

My real concerns with file-sharing are primarily aesthetic.

There’s a story by Jorge Luís Borges called “The Library of Babel.” It describes a fantastical library composed of an apparently infinite number of identical rooms. Each room contains 1,050 books. Printed on the pages are words whose lettering and order are apparently random. Because the library is complete, among the gibberish it also contains every book that is possible, every book that could ever be written. It also contains every imaginable variation of every book possible, whether that variation is off by thousands of letters or by a single comma. Borges adds that it must contain, somewhere, a book that explains the meaning and origin of the library itself – just as it contains thousands of variations of that book, true and false. He writes, “When it was proclaimed that the Library contained all books, the first impression was one of extravagant happiness. All men felt themselves to be the masters of an intact and secret treasure…As was natural, this inordinate hope was followed by an excessive depression.”

The internet – with its glut not only of information but of misinformation, and of information that is only slightly correct, or only slightly incorrect – fills me with this same weird mixture of happiness and depression. I sometimes feel drowned in information, deadened by it. How many hundreds of bored hours have you spent mechanically poring through web pages not knowing what you’re looking for, or knowing what you’re looking for but not feeling satisfied when you find it? You hunger but you’re not filled. Everything is freely available on the internet, and is accordingly made inestimably valuable and utterly value-less.

When I was a kid, I’d listen to the same records over and over and over again, as if I was under a spell. The record would end and I’d flip it over again, doing absolutely nothing, letting the music wash over me. My favorite record albums become like a totem for me, their big fat beautiful gatefolds worked as a shield against the loud, crashing, crushing world. I would have laid down my life and died in defense of a record like Tonight’s the Night or Astral Weeks. I felt that those records had, in some ways, saved my life. These days, with all the choice in the world, it’s hard for me find the attention span for a single album. I put my iPod on shuffle and skip impatiently to the next song before each one’s over. I don’t even know what I’m looking for.

Because my work is the most important thing in the world to me, I sometimes feel uncomfortable about it existing freely in the digital Library of Babel, these songs that I worked so hard writing and revising and rehearsing and recording and mixing (and re-mixing) and mastering (and re-mastering) shucked off the album and thrown up on the internet in hissy and brittle low-resolution versions with no kind of sequence or order, mixed in with odd leaked tracks and some sub-par live versions. In a world overstuffed with stimuli and choking on information, I feel like a musical album should have a kind of purity and a kind of wholeness, that every aspect of an album – from the sequencing to the artwork even down to the typesetting – should feels labored over and loved, and that the finished product should feel like a gift.

At the same time, I am a very ardent supporter of the way in which the internet empowers fans. I truly believe that the internet allows fans to connect with and participate in art in a way that’s far more meaningful than it’s been for decades, in a way that’s more akin to the way folk music worked in the 1920’s and for hundreds of years beforehand. Anyone who has ever been to a perfect rock show by their favorite band in a small venue can testify to the circuit of energy that is created at those shows between the audience and the band, to the way that energy washes up onstage from the crowd and is radiated back out again from the performers, to the way that it becomes less about an artist and an audience and it becomes entirely about a singular unrepeatable shared moment between a group of people. That’s why I go to shows, and that’s why I play music myself.

By the same token, those same great shows don’t always sound the same when you run a line out from the soundboard into a minidisk player and put it up online. For one thing, soundboard tapes are notoriously bad; everything that’s supposed to resonate through the air – like drums and amps – gets lost, while everything that’s miked or going direct sounds dry and ten times louder. Similarly, all those other ineffable things that resonate through the air – those things that are the reason we go to rock shows in the first place – simply can’t be captured through a line-out on a soundboard. I’ve heard a lot of the Okkervil bootlegs out there; some of them sound great and some of them make me wince. I don’t mind that they’re out there and I encourage bootlegging, but sometimes it’s painful for me to contemplate how there are hours and hours of terrible-sounding Okkervil River music readily available on the internet.

We’re going on tour again in the fall and we’ll probably be playing some new songs. I love sharing new songs and refining them live in front of people. However, I’m going to save some of the new songs for our next recording session – in spite of the fact that we could use the rehearsal – for the simple reason that I don’t want them to be heard first in versions that are inferior because we’re still working through them and they’re poorly from soundboards. I’m not at all asking that you don’t record and share shows; rather, I myself am going to try to choose some songs that I’m okay having shared in early versions.

Just as long as when the album comes out you don’t do that thing on the message board where you go, “hrumph, I much prefer the earlier version better, by the way. I find so much more pure the version from Madison where Will’s guitar is out of tune and he’s so wasted that he forgets half the words and then apologizes and starts the song over. And then he forgets them again.”

I typed up a reply which I'll replicate here for sake's sake:
Will,

Wonderfully written. Every now and then someone from a band fires off a missive and the blogsphere gets itself into a tizzy. Rarely are the thoughts so well organized and composed.

From the perspective of a fan- as unique as the perspective of the creator, I suppose- hearing a new song be born live and then hearing it on the record months, maybe years, later is a unique process that's been a real pleasure in the new digital age. I can completely understand not wanting to premiere something that isn't ready, but there's also something to be said for allowing us, as a fan base, to participate, however vicariously, in the process of song writing.

I think about Broken Social Scene's "7/4 (Shorelines)". I've got versions several years old. There are horns, sometimes, there are no horns, othertimes, there's a solo, there's no solo. And then the album version is a whole other creature, maybe in response to the kind of packratting I've done. But it has been an enlightining and pleasurable quest to sort of track it's development. And, of course, there's no greater joy than to finally hear it finished and mastered, the watery no-fi dream from a live show in Dusseldorf finally made complete.

So, while you've got every right and the world to hide your songs in a hatbox and we've got no reason to protest, I think it's worth considering the fact that we're not just hungry for the song to hear it, but to live it out, to expirence it. For better or worse, your songs are our Astralweeks and while that record is comitted to memory, your next record is still a possibility. It is a thing not-yet-done and our ability to play at that and to listen to the birth pains of a melody is maybe one of the crowning achievements of the digital music age.

At any rate, great post. I'm sure it'll be a refrence point for years to come. I do believe that this whole MP3 thing is good for all of us. Do I think it's made a lot of people lazy? Sure. But I think it's also set a lot of hearts on fire, too.
 

White Man

Member
I miss reading his writing on Audiogalaxy. Great band. Pity that "drinking so much he forgets the words" thing has happened both times I saw Okkervil. Otherwise, fantastic band.
 

VALIS

Member
Fair enough. I've had the same feeling, too, at times. Since I have over 100,000 songs and 20,000 albums on my hard drives, from turn of the century blues and folk to an album that was released last week, it does make them all feel cheap and inconsequential sometimes. A little less noteworthy and special than they should be, since that album is just #4,579 of 20,000. But that's really a problem in the listener (especially those of us who grew up on lps) and not the medium. I'd imagine you can still appreciate an album every bit as much now as you could at any other time, and having access to tens of thousands of rare, out of print and obscure records is really just monumentally wonderful. Yep, every individual album loses a little bit of distinctiveness this way, but what'cha gonna do? There are always trade offs and this one is worth it. Someone could go back to the pre-internet days of music listening if they wanted to. No one is stoppin' ya.
 

BuG

Member
Just as long as when the album comes out you don’t do that thing on the message board where you go, “hrumph, I much prefer the earlier version better, by the way. I find so much more pure the version from Madison where Will’s guitar is out of tune and he’s so wasted that he forgets half the words and then apologizes and starts the song over. And then he forgets them again.”
I remember reading someone saying almost exactly the same thing about one of Bright Eyes' "When The President Talks to God" performances.

Also:

I sometimes feel drowned in information, deadened by it.
I felt deadened by reading all of that.
 

White Man

Member
BuG said:
I felt deadened by reading all of that.

I think he makes a fair point. What was once somewhat rare is now ubiquitous. When I was a kid, I played the shit out of, say, The Karate Kid NES game, and I grew to love it and many other awful games in a sort of sado-masochistic way. Same thing goes for music. Since I have the option to listen to anything I want, whenever I want, I know I'm getting as much mileage out of albums I like. Or albums I could learn to like if I gave them more shots. The marriage of file sharing and music has bred an atmosphere of instant gratification for me, and I'm sure it's done the same for many other people.
 

vatstep

This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
VALIS said:
Someone could go back to the pre-internet days of music listening if they wanted to. No one is stoppin' ya.
I've sort of done that. When Napster launched, I was downloading ridiculous amounts of music. But now, it's been about three years since I've downloaded an album. I might sample a song here or there, but only to see if I like it. The only MP3s I have on my hard drive are from albums that I actually own. I mean, I really want to hear the new TV on the Radio, but I'm going to wait until I pick up my own copy off the shelf.

I like the feeling of purchasing and keeping a hard copy, and even taking the risk at buying something I'm unsure of. But on the other hand, every album that I buy goes directly onto my MP3 player. I live for that feeling of control and instant gratification. I listen to my collection on shuffle a lot, and I probably hit "next" about 15 times before I ever find something I want to hear. I guess I just prefer a little bit of the old and little bit of the new.
 
Oddly enough, all the bands I discovered on Audiogalaxy I play (and buy) the crap outta now. Wishbone Ash, Savatage, Atlanta Rhythm Section, Porcupine Tree, Focus...
 

swander

Member
GilloD said:
Wonderfully written. Every now and then someone from a band fires off a missive and the blogsphere gets itself into a tizzy. Rarely are the thoughts so well organized and composed.

:lol wtf

Is the band name from the actual river or the story?
 

GilloD

Banned
swander said:
:lol wtf

Is the band name from the actual river or the story?

What? I feel like "blogsphere" is a relatively well used term, silly as it may be.

Also, I figured GAF's collectively excellent music taste would be showerign OR with love. How did this happen, guys? How did you miss Black Sheep Boy?
 

Lambtron

Unconfirmed Member
This was a good article. I really, really love Okkervil River, and I learned of them through filesharing. I've since bought all their records, on CD and on vinyl, and seen them in concert 3 times (and unlike a lot of people I've read about, I've only had EXCELLENT experiences seeing them). I absolutely agree about the aesthetics of record releasing, it's something I'm extremely hung up on. It's why I spend probably more than I should on records.

Their music is the kind of music that is made better when listened to in the "whole" of an album. That's not to say that there aren't individual songs that are great, but they do sequence albums extremely well. It makes me sad that with a lot of the acclaim that Black-Sheep Boy got that there were probably tons of people who downloaded it, listened to it once, said "these guys suck," and just gave up on it. Their music is also the kind of music that gets far better with repeated listenings. There's a whole lot there to discover.
 

sefskillz

shitting in the alley outside your window
GilloD said:
Also, I figured GAF's collectively excellent music taste would be showerign OR with love. How did this happen, guys? How did you miss Black Sheep Boy?
****in great band. Shearwater is solid too, though their latest release was pretty hit or miss for me.
 

White Man

Member
Okkervil River rock.

jag39.300rgb4x4.jpg


MP3s from their site, for the uninitiated:

http://www.scjag.com/mp3/jag/forreal.mp3 - For Real, from Black Sheep Boy
http://jound.com/okkervil/mp3s/afavor.mp3 - A Favor, from Sleep and Wake-Up Song
http://www.scjag.com/mp3/jag/warcriminal.mp3 - The War Criminal Rises and Speaks, from Down the River of Golden Dreams
http://mp3.insound.com/download.cfm?mp3id=1383 - Westfall, from Don't Fall in Love with Everyone You See
 

=W=

Member
Good article. Great band.

I'm with White Man on this one (Don't Fall In Love With Everyone You See ftw), though I thought there were great live.
 
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