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[Naked Snake]

Okay, my question is: Based on what we know of the PS3 hardware and seen in game trailers, and understanding CG lighting technology; do you think the following images will be achievable in-game (at 60 fps?), after the console has been out for say 2 to 3 years?

I'm talking about lighting simulation, polycount, and resolution/image quality matching that in a fully functional and polished next-gen game world (not necessary a racing game; Polyphony could probably nail that in GT6 or something, but what about other developers/genres?)

Those images are promotional art renders by Namco for Ridge Racer 6 on XBox 630, the game itself looks pretty good but obviously there's a big gap between the renders and the in-game real-time graphics:

For more images, or if the above pics don't show up, go to: http://www.gamedaily.com/xbox360/title/screenshots/?id=3324&page=3

Are my expectations too low or too high?

 

[Gek54]

Probably, did you not see the GT Vision demo?

 

[Speevy]

Well, since Sony finally became the only console maker and hosts the franchise, I'd say so.

Btw, have you seen this Project Gotham Racing 3 game yet?

 

[Shompola]

The cars in RR6 allready looks like this IMO and PGR3 bitchslapes it IMO. Your expectations are too low.

 

[CosmicGroinPull]

PGR3 is already pretty close to that, isn't it?

 

[BigBoss]

Does PGR3 run at 60fps?

 

[HomerSimpson-Man]

Regarding the thread's question, yes.

 

[Speevy]

Click the first video:

http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=66301

 

[SolidSnakex]

This is GT5's cars

 

[Tenacious-V]

PGR3 already spanks those renders. So yes!

 

[imastalker co.]

This is GT5's cars

i don't remember seeing any of that at E3. did they bust out a new trailer for TGS?

 

[Gek54]

Does PGR3 run at 60fps?

HooHaa!

 

[Naked Snake]

Yeah I should have mentioned that I haven't seen much/any of PGR3, don't know why I didn't stumble on any media of it (lack of interest maybe), I'll check the links out.

Yeah saw GT Vision and it looked awesome, but the video quality was pretty bad which could be very deceiving in judging final image quality (kind of like some scans tend to do), does PGR3 have FSAA comparable to those RR6 renders?

 

[SolidSnakex]

i don't remember seeing any of that at E3. did they bust out a new trailer for TGS?

Yep its from the TGS trailer. Kaz said those were the only 2 cars (and an incar for the Evo) they had finished, everything else in the trailer is just a spiced up GT4 (more cars, high res, HDR ect).

 

[sly]

Where can I watch the Vision GT vid?

 

[Naked Snake]

Ridge Racer V renders for what it's worth:

http://img54.photobucket.com/albums...allpapers/wallpaper_ridge_racer_v_02_1024.jpg

http://cinder.retrogames.com/backgrounds/rr5800.jpg

http://members.fortunecity.com/paperworld2/games/gamme54.jpg

http://trouveastuces.free.fr/fonds/videog/ridge_racer1280.jpg

Are the last 2 official? Never seen them before.

 

[imastalker co.]

Where can I watch the Vision GT vid?

i would like to know this as well since IGN doesn't have it and gamespot is down apparently.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

i would like to know this as well since IGN doesn't have it and gamespot is down apparently.

gametrailers.com has one IIRC.

 

[sly]

gametrailers.com has one IIRC.

Thanks a lot. Downloading now.....


http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1675

 

[SolidSnakex]

Thanks a lot. Downloading now.....


http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1675

That's not it, that's the E3 trailer. I'm uploading the TGS trailer right now.

 

[isamu]

RR6 in game screens already bitchslaps those renders(and PGR3 for that matter), so yes.

 

[Speevy]

RR6 in game screens already bitchslaps those renders(and PGR3 for that matter), so yes.

Uh...what?

 

[imastalker co.]

That's not it, that's the E3 trailer. I'm uploading the TGS trailer right now.

awaiting orders sir

 

[Pimpwerx]

Doesn't RR6 already have those car models? I can't see shit at the site (might be my host file blocking the images), but if they're the same RR6 renders, then I thought the in-game footage looked the same. Enlighten me. PEACE.

 

[Gek54]

The RR6 models have VERY apparent and hard polygonal edges you can see even from that distance. The renders do not. The GT Vision spec cars have visible ploly edges as well but just look how close you have to be to even make them out for those who actually can see them at all.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Here's the Vision GT TGS trailer

http://s42.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=21DZ3XPUV89H91BTQUNI5WGJ1T

I've been watching it and noticed that for some reason they've added 3D rims to the GT4 car models. Anyway, the lighting near the end when the cars come out the tunnel is awesome.

 

[theREBELins]

What a retarded question

 

[Hitler Stole My Potato]

Seeing how PGR3 looks like this:

...I'd say that those renders have already been surpased by a launch title. God only knows how much better they'll be around the 3rd or 4th generation.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Anyway, the lighting near the end when the cars come out the tunnel is awesome.

That shot and the camera angles in the pit stop are already among the best applications of HDR Ive seen in real time up to this point (and this was just applying it to PS2 assets for the most part). The saturation and "warmth" of the sunlight is just dead on. PolyD is going to slay next-gen.

 

[Kleegamefan]

The visuals shown in GT Vision is just out of this world....

 

[isamu]

If RR6 comes out with the PS3 next spring and looks similar to those GT-Vision graphics may Lord have mercy of on my soul, and this forum....

 

[Speevy]

If RR6 comes out with the PS3 next spring and looks similar to those GT-Vision graphics may Lord have mercy of on my soul, and this forum....

Are you implying that the reason RR6 looks somewhat lackluster is because it's on the 360?

 

[SolidSnakex]

That shot and the camera angles in the pit stop are already among the best applications of HDR Ive seen in real time up to this point (and this was just applying it to PS2 assets for the most part). The saturation and "warmth" of the sunlight is just dead on. PolyD is going to slay next-gen.

We should get to see atleast a full course done and the cars at Sony's February show. All we know now is that it's 60fps, 20+ cars on track and will have real time damage. It'll also probably be the first game to feature the new Skyline since Nissan and Polyphony have formed a very good relationship.

 

[DCharlie]

"All we know now is that it's 60fps, 20+ cars on track and will have real time damage"

is all this confirmed from an interview? I've not been keeping up with GT so i've missed everything.

 

[SolidSnakex]

is all this confirmed from an interview? I've not been keeping up with GT so i've missed everything.

He's mentioned that they're aiming for real time damage in an interview already and has said that 60fps is a must for the series. The 20+ cars comes from the video as its an example of where GT5 is headed.

 

[MrSingh]

We should get to see atleast a full course done and the cars at Sony's February show. All we know now is that it's 60fps, 20+ cars on track and will have real time damage. It'll also probably be the first game to feature the new Skyline since Nissan and Polyphony have formed a very good relationship.

and don't forget the best (and free) online mode.

 

[Liquid]

He's mentioned that they're aiming for real time damage in an interview already and has said that 60fps is a must for the series. The 20+ cars comes from the video as its an example of where GT5 is headed.

2009 release if he plans on doing all that. GT4 was delayed how long for the nixed online play?

 

[SolidSnakex]

2009 release if he plans on doing all that. GT4 was delayed how long for the nixed online play?

Well he's said 2007, but I think it'll be around 2009 also.

 

[hukasmokincaterpillar]

Well he's said 2007, but I think it'll be around 2009 also.

Well if they decide to do 700+ cars at that quality you're probably right. I'd expect a more GT3 esque catalogue though, and Holiday '07 at the latest.

 

[Ryudo]

and don't forget the best (and free) online mode.

The best and free dont go together.

 

[God's Hand]

I don't know how game development works, but why doesn't the GT team just create super insane detailed car models in their favourite 3D app and downgrade them for every new generation? Sounds like they keep having to remake the cars...

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well if they decide to do 700+ cars at that quality you're probably right. I'd expect a more GT3 esque catalogue though, and Holiday '07 at the latest.

I'd be fine with that. I want a new GT as soon as they can finish it. I just don't know how fast that can be with all they're adding. I'd be happy if they released Vision GT as a launch title (as in the upgraded GT4 in the trailer, not with the new car models).

 

[arhra]

I don't know how game development works, but why doesn't the GT team just create super insane detailed car models in their favourite 3D app and downgrade them for every new generation? Sounds like they keep having to remake the cars...

Automatic mesh detail reduction doesn't work very well, so they'd have to manually tweak the shit out of them anyway. In fact, that's probably exactly what they do anyway, except using high-detail models from the manufacturers as a base.

 

[jett]

I sure hope so, because those renders don't really impress. The in-game models are not the same btw, they're decidedly more angular, it's easily noticeable when looking at the windows.

 

[monkeyrun]

I believe it'll be possible in PS3's 1st gen games.

 

[Borys]

Are you implying that the reason RR6 looks somewhat lackluster is because it's on the 360?

Are you still thinking games on PS3 won't be more impressive both tech-wise and art-wise than on 360?

 

[Speevy]

Are you still thinking games on PS3 won't be more impressive both tech-wise and art-wise than on 360?

Art-wise? Uh...I guess that depends on the developer.

Tech-wise? Sure. I mean, that seems to be the case, since the PS3 is the more powerful platform.

That's not what he posted, though.

If RR6 comes out with the PS3 next spring and looks similar to those GT-Vision graphics may Lord have mercy of on my soul, and this forum....

This quote implies that RR6's graphics are just a consequence of the Xbox 360's technical capabilities and that Namco could actually match Polyphony's game if it were on the PS3.

One glance at PGR3 tells you that's a load of crap. Namco's the reason RR6 looks like it does, not the 360 hardware.

 

[Rorschach]

Holy crap @ GT Vision. Hooray for 60fps

 

[Chrono]

About Gran Turismo on PS3 - can sony even afford not to have their mainstream killer app out in 2007? November 2007 is my guess.

 

[Pimpwerx]

I assume the damage modeling might compound the design process for GT5, since modeling cars was the most time-consuming aspect of GT3. I expect a GT3-sized library and a release in 2007. If they've already got a demo testbed for the game, then they must be working on car models now. They had none at E3, and two completed ones at TGS. I'd love to hear from someone who's seen them cataloging cars like they did during the GT2000 days. They no doubt have tons of data for all the old pre-2005 cars, but they'd need to still collect data for 2006 models. I don't think they'll have many of them in high detail, though. Odd that they'd finish a Gen3 RX-7 and the current-gen Evo first.

The damage modeling (if it's actually gonna be put in) would add more problems to designing the cars. Not to mention, I would positively hate it if it's done wrong...which it probably will. There's not a single racing game that had a damage model I liked. Papyrus came the closest. But I see no need for useless, inaccurate car damage that does nothing to enhance the game. I don't really plan on driving into other cars or into walls. I'd rather they focus more on handling/physics and interactions with different surface road surfaces than damage. Aerodynamics modeling would be good too, as current games suck in that department. That and improve the graphics and increase the car counts. I'll remain adamant about car damage. I've wrecked at 90+ mph. No game comes even close to modeling that. And if they did, it wouldn't be very fun at all. PEACE.