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[FloatingDivider]

I've been watching the Olympic games for the last few days and I can't help but notice how much I internally seem to be evaluating the legitimacy of performances. If I see a competitor leave anywhere between 1 to 8 competitors standing there, with their dicks in the wind, my mind immediately starts wondering how hard they're juicing up. When you're beating the best in the world, who are most likely also doping, by what appears to be miles, how can I not be suspect? While I'm aware that, traditionally, you're supposed to adopt an innocent until proven guilty stance I find myself unable to do so consistently. I mean, the writing is clearly on the wall. We have evidence of doping on every type of scale imaginable, from individuals to entire nations.

It's been ongoing ever since the East Germans dominated the Montreal Olympics and it clearly hasn't stopped because Russia recently got caught, and I doubt they're the only state sponsored doping program around.

Brazil apparently suspended drug testing on their athletes until the Olympics started which seems rather suspect to me. Furthermore The list of people that have been caught and suspended includes a who's who of past medal winners and international superstars. The BALCO scandal, the Festina affair, the Lance Armstrong case, the list goes on infinitely. It also seems like the athletes in question rarely get caught by a drug test, but usually get found out because someone breaks the Omerta and talks.

Clearly they've figured out how to either evade, or simply fool the current drug testing guidelines. And I can only assume the drugs are more tailor made and don't have as many side effects because the people that get caught don't tend to look to out of place like they may have in the past.The future is going to get even weirder, because it seems like we're at a point where genetic doping is starting to become a real possibility and we might start seeing genetic wonder athletes in a few decades time and at that point I imagine the "cheaters" will be virtually impossible to detect.

I'd be interested to hear what you guys think about all of this stuff because I always think it casts some real shadows on the current state of sports in general. While I can't seem to stop myself from enjoying the spectacle, I do wonder if the spectacle has made us all way too gullible.

 

[azyless]

I have no tolerance for cheaters. My position is that if you get caught even once you should be done with competition. It's frustrating that doping is always ahead of testing, as it stands you only hear about cheaters 4 years after the fact when everyone's moved on. They still get their medal, their price, etc. while clean athletes get none of the publicity.
I'm also annoyed by the general hypocrisy from americans considering some athletes they cheer for.

 

[Boozeroony]

I have no tolerance for cheaters. My position is that if you get caught even once you should be done with competition.
I'm also annoyed by the general hypocrisy from americans considering some athletes they cheer for.

The hypocrisy of the British federation regarding Armitstead is staggering.

 

[azyless]

The hypocrisy of the British federation regarding Armitstead is staggering.

Okay ? I'm not british and I don't follow cycling so I have no idea what you're talking about.
I'm sure americans aren't the only ones being biased. They tend to be the most mediatized and generally successful though, so I'm more aware of it.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I'd welcome doping just so we can see the extent of what the human body is capable of under chemical influence. Imagine the monsters of humans it could produce. It would be even more exciting to watch them compete.

 

[Lightning Count]

I'd welcome doping just so we can see the extent of what the human body is capable of under chemical influence. Imagine the monsters of humans it could produce. It would be even more exciting to watch them compete.

Fuck that.

As a wrestling fan it killed me seeing a lot of my favourite wrestlers dropping like flies due to using steroids in the prime.

We'll see these people dying in their forties or younger, that's not good.

 

[FreedomFighter]

I'd welcome doping just so we can see the extent of what the human body is capable of under chemical influence. Imagine the monsters of humans it could produce. It would be even more exciting to watch them compete.

I more or less agree with this stance. It would be nice if there was integrity in the games but that's very naive at this point. Sometimes I think, like all drugs, prohibition is just futile. The Olympics is no different, so many people are doping and. And NOT getting caught by staying a step ahead of the testing methods used. So at this point, maybe we should just consider making it safer to dope.

I've gotten back into MLB that last couple years but goddamn was baseball so much more enjoyable back when I was a kid during the doping era. I wouldn't mind seeing juiced super humans competing in Olympic sports either.

 

[ExplodingKetchup]

I find it hard to believe that most athletes in certain sports (swimming, cycling, running etc) aren't on something. It just seems like they need to be to actually have a shot at winning. Even if they technically pass the drug test, they're probably just using something they're not testing or some new supplement.

I can't think of any other policy besides the one they have, though. The other option is basically - 'openly allow doping', which is kinda fucked up for both the audience and the athletes.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

I'd welcome doping just so we can see the extent of what the human body is capable of under chemical influence. Imagine the monsters of humans it could produce. It would be even more exciting to watch them compete.

I hope you're joking. Hollywood back in the star system days and before actors were free agents essentially did this to maximize the usefulness they'd get out of their actors. It ruined many lives.

 

[agentofatlas]

I'm ok with it. It being legal and regulated might help reduce some health risks (which are sometimes overstated). Also some substances are great for injury recovery and might help an athlete prolong his/her career or at very least recover well from years of wear and tear.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

I hope you're joking. Hollywood back in the star system days and before actors were free agents essentially did this to maximize the usefulness they'd get out of their actors. It ruined many lives.

As long as the extent of a chemical's effects have been studied and communicated to a person before hand, and they consensually agree to it, then I'm not about controlling what they can inject into their bodies. People are typically against doping in order to maintain an imagined 'integrity' of something. But as far as I see it genetics already compromised that. Some people it doesn't matter how hard they train, they will still not reach the level of competition as others.

 

[Duffman]

I'd welcome doping just so we can see the extent of what the human body is capable of under chemical influence. Imagine the monsters of humans it could produce. It would be even more exciting to watch them compete.

Nah. Doping shouldn't ever be allowed in sports for health reasons alone. There has been several shady heart attack deaths of young athletes who most likely have used EPO for example. It fucking sad to see people die like that.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...t-is-it-and-has-anyone-died-as-a-result-of-it

 

[Ducarmel]

Zero tolerance

They need to hold countries more responsible too if what op said is true about brazil.peru drug testing.

I'm ok with it. It being legal and regulated might help reduce some health risks (which are sometimes overstated). Also some substances are great for injury recovery and might help an athlete prolong his/her career or at very least recover well from years of wear and tear.

How would you make it fair? Any little wiggle room for legal ped will just make it so that those that can afford the best doctors/drugs will perform best.

 

[Haunted]

I'm not watching the Olympics this year, I'm too ashamed of the corrupt IOC president (re: Russian doping) and denying that whole thing my attention and viewership is the only way I know to make my opinion heard.

It worked with the Tour de France (plummeting viewership and prestige after continued scandals in the early 2000s led to significantly diminished reporting and has reportedly accelerated attempts to finally, actually clean up the sport) and while I think that the Olympic marketing machine is too big to have the same thing happen anytime soon, I'm doing my part. Sad for the legit athletes, but it's the only way to pressure those responsible.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

As long as the extent of a chemical's effects have been studied and communicated to a person before hand, and they consensually agree to it, then I'm not about controlling what they can inject into their bodies. People are typically against doping in order to maintain an imagined 'integrity' of something. But as far as I see it genetics already compromised that. Some people it doesn't matter how hard they train, they will still not reach the level of competition as others.

So you're okay with helping people hurt themselves for possible short-term gains?

 

[Septimius]

I'd welcome doping just so we can see the extent of what the human body is capable of under chemical influence. Imagine the monsters of humans it could produce. It would be even more exciting to watch them compete.

This is a horrible statement.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

So you're okay with helping people hurt themselves for possible short-term gains?

I'm okay with people making decisions for themselves as long as they are given information before hand, are of the capacity to understand that information and thereby give consent. Many athletes are already hurting themselves for short-term gains, but nobody cares until doping is involved.

 

[Ogni-XR21]

Last Week Tonight on doping.

 

[shintoki]

They could clean it up... but

 

[GankzyMcfly]

They should just regulate this shit and have a juicers olympics and a clean olypmics... Clean olympic would be real extremely lame, id argue the majority of high performance athletes in general are all on something.

 

[SamVimes]

As long as the extent of a chemical's effects have been studied and communicated to a person before hand, and they consensually agree to it, then I'm not about controlling what they can inject into their bodies. People are typically against doping in order to maintain an imagined 'integrity' of something. But as far as I see it genetics already compromised that. Some people it doesn't matter how hard they train, they will still not reach the level of competition as others.

That's incredibly stupid. Like I can't believe how you even thought of this. What you want to do is encourage athletes to destroy their lives, otherwise they have no chance to compete. grats

If you want legal doping that doesn't harm the athletes thatìs completely different.

 

[MikeHattsu]

I'm okay with people making decisions for themselves as long as they are given information before hand, are of the capacity to understand that information and thereby give consent. Many athletes are already hurting themselves for short-term gains, but nobody cares until doping is involved.

Hm... What about young athletes? Aren't there people as young as 13 competing?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

That's incredibly stupid. Like I can't believe how you even thought of this. What you want to do is encourage athletes to destroy their lives, otherwise they have no chance to compete. grats

If you want legal doping that doesn't harm the athletes thatìs completely different.

Many athletes already put their body through an absurd amount of stress that has the capacity to absolutely destroy their lives. I don't see how scientifically controlled doping would be any different.

Hm... What about young athletes? Aren't there people as young as 13 competing?

I don't know. But a 13 year old wouldn't be of the capacity to consent to chemicals as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Aztechnology]

Jesus the people who would allow people to potentially be seriously harmed from drug usage to suit our desire for entertainment are horrifying.

 

[Calabi]

As long as the extent of a chemical's effects have been studied and communicated to a person before hand, and they consensually agree to it, then I'm not about controlling what they can inject into their bodies. People are typically against doping in order to maintain an imagined 'integrity' of something. But as far as I see it genetics already compromised that. Some people it doesn't matter how hard they train, they will still not reach the level of competition as others.

The Olympics is especially supposed to be all inclusive, so much so they even have the refugees group. Doping would extremely disadvantageous to the poorer nations, so much so it would likely be pointless in them competing. Its not just about integrity its about having a level playing field. I can see in the not too distance future genetic manipulation playing a large part, how far do you let these modifications go. At that point it wouldn't even just be about money but about how ethically corrupt the country is and how willing it is to play around with human lives.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Jesus the people who would allow people to potentially be seriously harmed from drug usage to suit our desire for entertainment are horrifying.

I don't really care or watch sports, so it's not for my 'entertainment'. I just also don't care of a consenting adult wants to inject adrenaline into their body to gain an advantage with their training.

The Olympics is especially supposed to be all inclusive, so much so they even have the refugees group. Doping would extremely disadvantageous to the poorer nations, so much so it would likely be pointless in them competing. Its not just about integrity its about having a level playing field. I can see in the not too distance future genetic manipulation playing a large part, how far do you let these modifications go. At that point it wouldn't even just be about money but about how ethically corrupt the country is and how willing it is to play around with human lives.

Aren't smaller/poorer country already essentially at a disadvantage due to things like their smaller pool, worse nutrition, and inability to import foreign athletes/trainers? Isn't that why Romania has suffered in sports they used to dominate (gymnastics I believe)? Because richer countries are snatching up their training.

 

[duckroll]

Encouraging systemic self abuse to forward careers is a disgusting social suggestion. The assumption that it is okay because people are making personal decisions is society neglecting responsibility in seeing that by encouraging it we force systemic abuse on those who want to perform for us at all. Hence it no longer becomes a real choice.

 

[Duffman]

Aren't smaller/poorer country already essentially at a disadvantage due to things like their smaller pool, worse nutrition, and inability to import foreign athletes/trainers? Isn't that why Romania has suffered in sports they used to dominate (gymnastics I believe)? Because richer countries are snatching up their training.

Then why would you put them in an even bigger disadvantage by allowing doping?

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Then why would you put them in an even bigger disadvantage by allowing doping?

Well for one I don't know how expensive 'doping' is. I can get an adrenaline injection for like $15. Which seems it'd be significantly cheaper than having to import a world class trainer from halfway across the globe.

 

[Anticol]

I am conflicted aboutit, if steroids are used in a proper way it can enhance the natural capacities of anyone by a lot, seriously steroids are not as bad as people think, just like anything else they are bad if they are used in the wrong way or if people abuse them.

It is also not only used by athletes, movie/tv starts have used them as well, and nobody seem to criticize them. There are many examples of people gaining 30 pounds of muscle in 4/5 months for roles in movies but "nobody" notice it or say anything about it.

And it is easy to go after the germans of the russians but plenty of popular athletes have used them and most of them haven't been caught or are protected.

 

[Chumly]

I believe most dopers get caught especially in western nations. It's easier if you have the government actively covering your tracks (Russia). Dopers may not get caught initially but either from samples being held for years or eventually someone gets ratted out. So not all cheaters will get caught in this Olympics but within the next 10 years the majority of the cheaters will be caught.

Also doping should never be allowed. It ruins people's lives and should not be encouraged.

 

[Goldfishking]

Man this thread already.

If you're looking for a sporting event brimming with drug fuelled athletes pushing themselves to the limit only to drop like flies then you're missing the point of the Olympics.

 

[Duffman]

Well for one I don't know how expensive 'doping' is. I can get an adrenaline injection for like $15. Which seems it'd be significantly cheaper than having to import a world class trainer from halfway across the globe.

If doping was allowed the development of new, more complex and more effective substances would skyrocket because you wouldn't need to think about how to hide it in a doping test anymore. It would be naive to think that the most effective stuff would only cost 15 dollars per dose/use.

 

[Chumly]

If doping was allowed the development of new, more complex and more effective substances would skyrocket because you wouldn't need to think about how to hide it in a doping test anymore. It would be naive to think that the most effective stuff would only cost 15 dollars per dose/use.

Agreed. Western countries with lots of money and government sponsored Olympic programs like Russia and China would dump billions into perfecting the best substances.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

If doping was allowed the development of new, more complex and more effective substances would skyrocket because you wouldn't need to think about how to hide it in a doping test anymore. It would be naive to think that the most effective stuff would only cost 15 dollars per dose/use.

Well I'll iterate again that I limit it to things an athlete can make an informed decision about. So basically it would be drugs whose health effects already been studied significantly. Which generally speaking requires what, a decade or more of research? Not talking about people mixing some new drug up in their lab today and injecting it into their athlete tomorrow. But maybe I am naive. I just don't see there being a huge investment market in 10-20 year old studies just to give your Olympic athletes a boost. I never got the idea the Olympics were that important to a country.

Edit: Though now I think of it it kinda makes it sound like NASCAR where manufacturers test out new designs which eventually make it into consumer models for a benefit to safety, fuel consumption, etc. But in this case the Olympians would be the NASCAR cars, and the research can possibly go on to help certain people.

 

[The Maverick]

If you don't think the majority (85%+) of the athletes at the Olympics are doping, I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[vikki]

Is it wrong rthar I assume all high level athletes are or have used PEDs? I just assume everyone is doing what they can to get an advantage.

 

[lenos16]

Most of those athletes are probably doped up on something anyway. It just depends on who has the better drugs.

 

[agentofatlas]

Zero tolerance

They need to hold countries more responsible too if what op said is true about brazil.peru drug testing.


How would you make it fair? Any little wiggle room for legal ped will just make it so that those that can afford the best doctors/drugs will perform best.

Isn't that what's happening now? Countries with better sports tech, training and doctors are always gonna perform best.

 

[correojon]

Well, the US basketball team doesn´t have to pass the antidoping tests, they reply only to the US Agency of doping instead of to the World Antidoping Agency or OIC. I think it´s the condition the NBA put to allow it´s players to partake in the Olympics. So, it´s hard to believe they´re clean.

 

[NEO0MJ]

I more or less agree with this stance. It would be nice if there was integrity in the games but that's very naive at this point. Sometimes I think, like all drugs, prohibition is just futile. The Olympics is no different, so many people are doping and. And NOT getting caught by staying a step ahead of the testing methods used. So at this point, maybe we should just consider making it safer to dope.

Even if some drugs were legalized do you really think athletes would restrict themselves to them if there's something unauthorized that offered an even bigger boost, regardless of how it might have severe consequences later?

 

[Striek]

Its naive to think doping isn't endemic. I have no doubts 95% of medal winners will have taken some variant of outlawed drugs to get to where they are. Its damned silly we put up with the charade that steroids are used by the evil few but the majority can still win with their natural talent.

It isn't problem countries, it isn't problem sports, its being the best of the best. If you aren't using, you aint winning.

 

[old]

I assume most of these sports are like pro sports here in America. Which is to say every competitor is a walking pharmacy. They just haven't banned those specific substances yet.

 

[TTG]

Jesus the people who would allow people to potentially be seriously harmed from drug usage to suit our desire for entertainment are horrifying.

Have you heard of this underground hardcore sports league where athletes get into collisions that are not unlike car crashes multiple times a game? They develop serious brain damage, which they are at risk for from a young age, not just in the pros. God, if only I could recall this obscure organization... ooooo ... so close, got it!

EDIT: also worth noting that side effects of anabolic steroids are much less dangerous than multiple concussions and addiction to pain meds used to treat injuries.

 

[Vastag]

Jesus the people who would allow people to potentially be seriously harmed from drug usage to suit our desire for entertainment are horrifying.

Take into account that most elite athletes are already being seriously harmed just by taking part in this kind of sport competitions. Gymnasts, boxers and similar, people that compete in contact sports like hockey, football or rugby, etc... are already destroying their bodies for entertainment even if they are not using drugs. Being a high level athlete is anything but healthy.

 

[Duffman]

Well I'll iterate again that I limit it to things an athlete can make an informed decision about. So basically it would be drugs whose health effects already been studied significantly. Which generally speaking requires what, a decade or more of research? Not talking about people mixing some new drug up in their lab today and injecting it into their athlete tomorrow. But maybe I am naive. I just don't see there being a huge investment market in 10-20 year old studies just to give your Olympic athletes a boost. I never got the idea the Olympics were that important to a country.

Edit: Though now I think of it it kinda makes it sound like NASCAR where manufacturers test out new designs which eventually make it into consumer models for a benefit to safety, fuel consumption, etc. But in this case the Olympians would be the NASCAR cars, and the research can possibly go on to help certain people.

So would there still be doping tests in your model? Because it would indeed be naive to think that athletes would only use those scientifically studied and allowed substances.

Btw I also believe that Usain Bolt and most other high profile top athletes use PEDs systematically. Allowing doping altogether would just create even more fucked up situation in my opinion, though.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Take into account that most elite athletes are already being seriously harmed just by taking part in this kind of sport competitions. Gymnasts, boxers and similar, people that compete in contact sports like hockey, football or rugby, etc... are already destroying their bodies for entertainment even if they are not using drugs. Being a high level athlete is anything but healthy.

Yeah. I find it rather disingenuous that people are putting the athlete's health as their first priority when the very act of high level competition is already a threat to their health. I mean, that one dude broke his leg at this year's Olypmics. His career, if not completely ruined, is now going to be damaged due to the delay caused by recovering. Then there are Olympians have died in the past, both during competition and during their training. So I have to ask them, is all doping really that much more dangerous than the fact they're competing alone?

So would there still be doping tests in your model? Because it would indeed be naive to think that athletes would only use those scientifically studied and allowed substances.

I guess I'd say yes, if only so we know what drugs athletes are on. But I don't think I'd disqualify them on that fact alone. But if a country/drug manufacturer was learned to have given an athlete a drug without all the health benefits/risks being disclosed to that athlete, that is denying the athlete their right to make an informed decision about a drug, then I would disqualify the country from competition. Additionally I would sue who ever is responsible for failing to disclose that information, both as the Olympic committee as well as providing financial/legal support to the victim (see: the athlete) so that they may also sue.

 

[shira]

I have no tolerance for cheaters. My position is that if you get caught even once you should be done with competition. It's frustrating that doping is always ahead of testing, as it stands you only hear about cheaters 4 years after the fact when everyone's moved on. They still get their medal, their price, etc. while clean athletes get none of the publicity.
I'm also annoyed by the general hypocrisy from americans considering some athletes they cheer for.

Caught = cheat?

But if everyone is doping it just means you teams med/biochemistry team is better

 

[jett]

Lately I've taken to assume most top athletes dope, either with "legal" substances (that haven't been banned yet) or illegal substances (hidden away in the system by top drug designers). I'm not sure what you can do about it.

 

[Fluvian]

I personally believe that if the Athletes want to dope they should be allowed to. You think I care about fair competition? you think anybody watches the Olympics and goes "Gee I'm loving this fair competition" NO!. They wanna see Michael Phelps swim as fast as he possibly can, they wanna see Usain bolt run as fast as he can and they want to see Tom Daley......spin? as fast as he can. And they can all do those things much better on steroids.