UN are marvel fanboys confirmed.
LOL This appears to be the case it would seem. Let us get Kamala Khan into the house ASAP
UN are marvel fanboys confirmed.
I can relate to people of different races, genders, body type just fine. What I can't relate to is the models being represented to us being white the vast majority of the time.
Maybe you're the one lacking in empathy.
Now is Ms. Marvel's chance.
They would receive flak for creating an ugly black woman. "Why do black women need to be ugly? Why can't they be gorgeous like the white Wonder Woman?"
If you're going to do it, you need to it separate; a black Wonder Woman with average boobs, an Asian Catwoman, and a Caucasian flatchested ugly Poison Ivy. And Batgirl with Asian, African and European ancestry with big boobs so the heavy-chested women don't feel left out.
The whole idea was fucking stupid to begin with so no big deal.
Has any major comic publisher developed a character intentionally to be ugly, to be empowering towards those who might not have a perfectly-proportioned face, or might have some scars or genetic defects? Why don't those people see any representation? Everyone has to be beautiful.
I know Marvel has gone in some weird directions at times with X-Men, but I don't think there's ever been a sense of "yeah, that character's ugly just like me!"
Marvel's been redoing a number of its long-standing characters like making a young, black, female Iron Man, black Spider-Man, female Thor. What if DC followed suit and made a flat-chested, black, visually unappealing Wonder Woman?
Well, why capitulate to people demanding "non-perfect" faces as you put it?What does the flak matter? Why capitulate to people demanding heroes with perfect faces? That's why you'd be making the changes in the first place, because you wouldn't care about anyone left clamoring for the classic archetypes.
Plus, making them separate seems like implying that other races are too thin-skinned to be able to deal with that. "We made the ugly hero white, because we knew you'd be too upset." Talk about patronizing.
If criticism is invalid or based on ignorance then it should not be listened to. Meeting people with unreasonable demands is not a step toward growth, but a leap toward folly.
DC listened to critics back when they had legitimate critiques and the character/book improved because of it. These critics are using images/depictions that are decades old and arguing out of ignorance, so ignoring them rather than listening to them is the right call.
The fact that people in other countries know the character does not mean that she should change her race to somehow accommodate those other cultures, particularly since she cannot be white/African/Asian/South American all at the same time.
Well, why capitulate to people demanding "non-perfect" faces as you put it?
I forgot he's not even originally from Earth. Another - for him not being relatable. Can we have Trump deport him already?
I don't think anyone is saying that this is the most pressing issue of our time (certainly not in a year of Trump, Syria or Brexit). Those that think this was a dumb decision are simply expressing the view that the criticism of Wonder Woman in the petition/some of the posts is poor and that the capitulation by the UN was dumb.
Because writers have done a shitty job making marketable superheroes that are of color. Also a lot of the 'first' heroes were white so they had little competition at the time and build their cache over many decades. The goal is to write good, marketable characters (of color) that are going to sell, not bitch and whine that the current successful white ones are successful.
This one was white. But she was also a woman and queer.
Start a petition to get a black hero there.
Then get another petition when Asian people are unhappy, so get Naruto up there.
Then get another petition when women are unhappy that there are two men and only one woman.
I mean, this can all snowball into ridiculousness really easily.
Are the majority of well-known comic heroes white? Yes. That's because they were created by white men in the middle of the 20th century.
We are making strides now to add more non-token diversity to the universes, which is great.
I don't see an issue with the U.N.'s choosing one who happened to be white as a fictional ambassador, though.
The petition should have been for more fictional ambassadors, not to get rid of Wonder Woman because she doesn't represent everyone. No one represents everyone.
LOL This appears to be the case it would seem. Let us get Kamala Khan into the house ASAP
Also speaking of critics, why is Wonder Woman White?? Same applies to Superman too, this is a legitimate question that I don't think has ever happened in DC headquarters. If an alien or unique race of people came to our world, why would they be automatically be Caucasian??
Has any major comic publisher developed a character intentionally to be ugly, to be empowering towards those who might not have a perfectly-proportioned face, or might have some scars or genetic defects? Why don't those people see any representation? Everyone has to be beautiful.
I know Marvel has gone in some weird directions at times with X-Men, but I don't think there's ever been a sense of "yeah, that character's ugly just like me!"
Marvel's been redoing a number of its long-standing characters like making a young, black, female Iron Man, black Spider-Man, female Thor. What if DC followed suit and made a flat-chested, black, visually unappealing Wonder Woman?
For the same reason people want to see representation of other races and body types.
Those are the ones that are prominent and popular, and that's not going to change until non-white characters are created that become as popular as they are or more popular. What we're seeing now is adults acting like little children where if white characters are popular and getting the limelight, they shouldn't get because characters in my color aren't!!! This is the victim complex whining that really does nothing rather just mindless whining. "If I can't have what I want, you shouldn't either!".I can relate to people of different races, genders, body type just fine. What I can't relate to is the models being represented to us being white the vast majority of the time.
Maybe you're the one lacking in empathy.
OK, let us look at this way. The critics are ignorant we both know that isn't it. But is their source of complaint completely Invalid?? Imagine a picture of Wonder Woman in the UN building in Pakistan, what kind of cultural sensibilities is being shown there??
Again, with regards to ethnicity, I would make her people ethnically ambiguous. No one is saying she has to be what western countries often define as racial categories or minorities ( A language that doesn't apply in the international space because white people aren't majority of Earth) She doesn't have to be White, Black, Asian etc. A smart choice is to make her ethnically ambiguous that people cannot pin her to a specific. There are a lot of multi-ethnic people who actually look this way, I would know because I have met them in real life. You cannot pin them to a box because they have traits from almost every tree so are we going to pretend that the artist community have never met an ethnically ambiguous person, have you never met an ethnically ambiguous person?
Nah, i'd prefer a good character.
Kamala isn't good. Oh my days, we have run dry boss. I cannot even think of many who fit the feminist archetype in comics aside Wonder Woman, the Marvel girls and maybe .....ooh dear, there isn't many is there?
Kamala isn't good. Oh my days, we have run dry boss. I cannot even think of many who fit the feminist archetype in comics aside Wonder Woman, the Marvel girls and maybe .....ooh dear, there isn't many is there?
My daughter is half Caucasian and half Japanese, so yes I'm familiar with different races, mixed race, ethnically ambiguous races, etc... Just because I disagree with what you're saying does not make me some sheltered person unfamiliar with the world.
I see an interesting double standard in what you say. You would be fine with Kamala Khan (a great character) who is 100% Pakistani, but you're not fine with Wonder Woman because she is white. That seems like an odd stance to me. Yes, Wonder Woman is not fully representative of the world, but neither is Kamala Khan. Making every character ethnically ambiguous seems like an extreme choice to satisfy those who are overly focused on whether an individual character represents them, particularly when discussing Wonder Woman who is (at times) so closely linked to Greek mythology.
Representation in fiction/comics matters, but representation should be looked at company/industry wide, not character by character. It's not realistic to have most characters be ethnically ambiguous, so the goal should be to have a range of characters with different backgrounds. So many characters, including Wonder Woman and Kamala Khan gain depth from their cultural background, so making everything ambiguous takes that away.
Squirrel Girl.
Why were people angry about this, exactly?
Read the article linked to the OP would probably be my first step, but then again I'm kinda weird.
Oh, I see. When I was a kid and saw those clothes with red/blue/white with the stars, I basically saw her as a female Captain America.
I read the article. It didn't clear anything up.
What does the characters "physical proportions" have to do with negating the characters long association with the UN in the comic book universe, in addition to the character's long standing work as an envoy of peace and figure of diplomacy?
That's a pretty dumb reason considering the circumstances.I guess it's fighting back against this idealized body for women. Y'know the coke bottle shape.
Black Superman and Wonder Woman exist already. Hell, Superman is even the President of the United States in that universe and overall he seems to be a better hero than his white counterpart.
Shouldn't that mean a woman doesn't need to have an "idealised body" to get a high position, not that it's impossible for those who do?I guess it's fighting back against this idealized body for women. Y'know the coke bottle shape.
That's a pretty dumb reason considering the circumstances.
That's a pretty dumb reason considering the circumstances.
Shouldn't that mean a woman doesn't need to have an "idealised body" to get a high position, not that it's impossible for those who do?
Again, all of these things are pretty petty excuses for complaints considering the circumstances.I think it's in combination with her being White, and though it doesn't explicitly mention it; I have no doubt her being an American creation with the flag symbolically used as part of her uniform played a part as well.
Again, all of these things are pretty petty excuses for complaints considering the circumstances.
Just because someone else sees something as reasonable doesn't mean it's not petty when viewed in a larger scope. By that logic everything is simultaneously petty and reasonable and both words no longer mean anything.To you and me it may be petty, but to others they may not be especially those in the international community. I don't know. I'm kinda surprised this was even on anybody's radar. This seems like one of those things that happen and people pay no mind to it.
I would love to see an age/gender/race/ethnicity/nationality breakdown of all the people who signed the petition for further research.
Why do we need Asia or Africa for Asian or black characters? Last time I checked America was the most diverse country in the world. Plenty of great non-white characters exist in comics and other media. We don't have to wait for them to be created, they already exist.Wonder Woman exists for already 75 years now.
Of course is well known and so she is perfect for this position. Maybe in a few years an anime character will join as well or there will be growing industry in Africa creating their own role models. But why take the existing ones away because others do not exist yet?
Those are the ones that are prominent and popular, and that's not going to change until non-white characters are created that become as popular as they are or more popular. What we're seeing now is adults acting like little children where if white characters are popular and getting the limelight, they shouldn't get because characters in my color aren't!!! This is the victim complex whining that really does nothing rather just mindless whining. "If I can't have what I want, you shouldn't either!".
Writers need to create popular, bankable non-white characters that resonate with the general public. Removing the white ones just because as of now for the most part most are white is idiotic. Frankly, the only thing I give a fuck about is that a character is interesting, not anything else. I also get that people want characters that are with their race color etc and that's totally fine. Wanting characters that are currently successful to not be as much just because there's too many of the race I'm not in is illogical, childish mentality on the other hand. Focus should be to create new characters that you can relate more to, not put down the current ones because they don't fit your relatability scale to a fucking t.
Wonder Woman not being an ambassador also doesn't do shit for non-white fictional characters. It's not like there's only one "honorary ambassador" that could ever be named.Wonder Woman not being Ambassador doesn't create a shortage of white role models or white representation.
No, but it does take representation away from women, who are an under represented group themselves.It's mindless whining for you because you don't fucking get it! Its more like " why do you have to get everything? Why can't I get shit?"
Wonder Woman not being Ambassador doesn't create a shortage of white role models or white representation.
Minority kids need this shit. White kids have always had it in excess.
Nothing except let the people making these decisions know that people want non-white characters in these roles too.Wonder Woman not being an ambassador also doesn't do shit for non-white fictional characters. It's not like there's only one "honorary ambassador" that could ever be named.
If white women are an under-represented group, what does that make women of color?No, but it does take representation away from women, who are an under represented group themselves.
I'm sure the lesson they'll be learning is that, and not "better do nothing lest someone else finds something objectionable".Nothing except let the people making these decisions know that people want non-white characters in these roles too.
Just because someone else sees something as reasonable doesn't mean it's not petty when viewed in a larger scope. By that logic everything is simultaneously petty and reasonable and both words no longer mean anything.
kids have huge imaginations, i don't think they have trouble relating to superheroes.
The fact that you're complaining because it's not the exact right representation that you personally want is sad. WW can be an empowering figure for all women regardless of race and you're more transfixed on the color of her skin then you are of the idea that a woman could be representitve of all women regardless of the color of theirs.If white women are an under-represented group, what does that make women of color?
Nah, if you turned this situation around and made it a statement about something negative happening to a group of minoroties people here surely would not brush it off as "Well I guess different things are just important to different people."The irony is your last sentence has more truth in it then you ever meant it to have. LOL
Well, damn. Guess we better stop asking to be seen and represented, then. There's no point.I'm sure the lesson they'll be learning is that, and not "better do nothing lest someone else finds something objectionable".