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[ZeoVGM]

China's middle class is the size of the entire US population.

That's a lot of iPhones, cars, and movie tickets.

Kinda sad that Hollywood can just throw up dreck blockbusters and foreign markets will eat it up because they value spectacle over quality.

Or they like the movies? Fast 8 was tons of fun and is fresh on RottenTomaotes so that's not a case of a "dreck blockbuster" doing better in a foreign market.

And again, Suicide Squad did incredibly well in America. Don't pretend we're some high mark of taste.

 

[caliph95]

Or they like the movies? Fast 8 was tons of fun and is fresh on RottenTomaotes so that's not a case of a "dreck blockbuster" doing better in a foreign market.

It pretty much just a case of certain kind of movies doing good overseas than anything about quality

 

[Peru]

Kinda sad that Hollywood can just throw up dreck blockbusters and foreign markets will eat it up because they value spectacle over quality.
.

I mean, that's not what's happening. Asia, Europa, whatever, have a culture of high quality cinema and many great films that, in contrast, never make it in the US. You might ask, why do almost none of the great films presented at the European Film Awards make an impact in the USA? The fact is, no other place makes bigger budget films than Hollywood, and so in certain markets, what the US film industry can offer that the local can't, is huge spectacle. That becomes its core selling point. It doesn't mean that the local crowds don't like quality films, just that this kind of film is not made there, and so is an attractive ticket. Add to this that the context of the productions is often lost, so Transformers will seem as 'substantial' a film in China as Star Wars, and you have plenty of reasons why the third big Transformers release becomes the event of the month in Chinese theaters.

 

[LegendofDragoonLives]

Pirates about to hit 750m at that rate? Damn.

 

[Z3M0G]

Why doesn't the rest of the world care when a movie is bad

Have you seen THEIR movies??

Spoiler

I LOVE a lot of movies from China, Japan, and other parts of Asia... but most people in the West would turn their nose up to them pretty darn quickly. As Western produced films, they would be straight-to-DVD in most cases.

What blew my mind was Pacific Rim in China.

The Chinese Jaeger team was portrayed as total losers. Why did they like it❓

Do you think Canadians hate every Movie / TV Show / Etc from the US that pokes fun at Canadians? We usually laugh the hardest at it.

 

[darkinstinct]

Head Animator? As in "animated the head of Shrek"? That's amazing. When will we get movies by the people that clipped Tom Cruise's fingernails?

 

[ZeoVGM]

Head Animator? As in "animated the head of Shrek"? That's amazing.

It's getting bad these days when I legitimately question if someone's being serious or not in moments like this.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Lol. Its 'new' because its the 20th generic Marvel film in 5 years on top of being a 2nd reboot. But a new Mummy is too much!
America is totally tired of old franchises and wants something new!!!! How's Saw 8 coming along?

That's being reductive and you know it. Comparing a currently popular genre to an individual series of films is disingenuous, and ignores any gaps in quality to boot.

You're posting on an American-centric forum that constantly complains about Transformers films, Hollywood's current repetitive nature, and so on. The box office seems to reflect that, which means this forum's views on the subject aren't too out of the norm for the country. So how does that not line up with what I said?

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

They absolutely haven't wised up. I believe he is perhaps the single most popular thing on Netflix actually. He's up there. Netflix virtually never give out numbers, except for some metrics for their biggest things, and they did recently say something like the average American Netflix viewer has seen over 2 Netflix Adam Sandler movies.

He is easily their biggest and most popular film maker. That is how much intelligent and original American viewers are over everyone else. While in Europe almost every top movie in their respective country is some highly regarded comedy and regardless it is made for adults not children.

It's a uniquely American thing that most of its cinema is simple, and must be understandable for an 8 year old and an 80 year old. That is not the case in the rest of the world.

You really have a rose-colored view of non-american cinema. The french comedies you mentioned in your posts are considered to be absolutely terrible 99% of the time around here by most critics and they review much more poorly than those Hollywood movies "made for children" as you call them. And the "adult films"? They make no money at all and exist only thanks to governement subsidies for the most part. Nobody goes to see them. There are exceptions of course and I'm painting with a broad brush but so are you.

When everything Christian Clavier does somehow makes money, I don't think you can say that french audiences have better taste than americans. Adam Sandler probably has a better filmography than Clavier. There's good and bad everywhere and american cinema is still one of the most celebrated in the entire world, including in publications like Les Cahiers du Cinéma. It's not just Hollywood blockbusters.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

This is making the news now?

Take a look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOttfoJ4ygU

We've still have some years to go until asian (mostly chinese) audiences become savvy and fatigued enough for Hollywood to actually start doing something about the quality anc creativity of its movies. Meanwhile they'll probably keep churning sequels, reboots, remakes and 'universes'.

 

[Z3M0G]

I've heard that some studios are shifting away from making a "good" movie by western standards, because they realize that the film may do well in a foreign market. So dialogue, narrative structure and other things are changed to be easier for non-native English speakers to digest, or to give room for translation changes that can affect the overall quality of the film.

I'm conflicted about this, because on one hand they're bringing the films to a new audience, but on the other hand the motivating factor is profit. Why make a film with consistent pacing and without unnecessary flashbacks when you can ask the director to make changes that will make the film more palatable to foreign audiences?

This is a huge part of it. If you spend time watching movies from other regions, you will understand how their films tend to follow different formulas than our own. Hollywood doesn't make movies just for NA anymore. For good reason.

Business is business.

We will still have art pictures though... these are not the films that will win Best Picture at the Academy Awards. Those aren't going away.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

China's middle class is the size of the entire US population.

That's a lot of iPhones, cars, and movie tickets.

Kinda sad that Hollywood can just throw up dreck blockbusters and foreign markets will eat it up because they value spectacle over quality.

In time they'll start asking why not both, but for now it's a god send to the studios that they can just CGI some poorly slapped together dailies and make a billion bucks without a competent editor or daft script.

As if spectacle driven blockbusters aren't hits in the US.

America is truly the land of indie cinema and art in motion pictures.

 

[Ratrat]

Crap.

 

[lightskintwin]

As if spectacle driven blockbusters aren't hits in the US.

America is truly the land of indie cinema and art in motion pictures.

LOL Haven't you heard, us Americans have got better taste.... except when voting for our president.

 

[Ratrat]

That's being reductive and you know it. Comparing a currently popular genre to an individual series of films is disingenuous, and ignores any gaps in quality to boot.

You're posting on an American-centric forum that constantly complains about Transformers films, Hollywood's current repetitive nature, and so on. The box office seems to reflect that, which means this forum's views on the subject aren't too out of the norm for the country. So how does that not line up with what I said?

Gaps in quality? The three sequels I mentioned earlier were positively recieved. Marvel is the one churning out tired sequels that people eat up. People on this forum complained about Iron Man, Thor or Avenger sequels all the while lining up for the next one.

So basically the cure to franchise fatigue is Marvel. They can make endless superhero rehash films but god forbid a rare movie featuring pirates and mummies exist. The American public would never watch something so unoriginal!

 

[AmFreak]

Kinda sad that Hollywood can just throw up dreck blockbusters and foreign markets will eat it up because they value spectacle over quality.

Says man from country where great movies constantly bomb or don't even get released because they aren't from the us, while superhero movie #674 will rake in hundreds of millions.

 

[poppabk]

Huh? The entire premise of this thread is that these terrible big budget movies (like The Mummy/Transformers aren't making much money anymore (or at least as much as they have in the past) in the states and are depending on foreign markets for their box office bucks.

Plenty of terrible big budget movies are making money in the US though. It just seems like any big blockbuster is going to be a hit overseas, most likely due to China restricting western releases.

 

[Ratrat]

Says man from country where great movies constantly bomb or don't even get released because they aren't from the us, while superhero movie #674 will rake in hundreds of millions.

The biggest crime.

 

[True Savior]

Saying US audience have good taste 😂😂

 

[lightskintwin]

To be fair, Marvel movies are usually good, plus the Superhero genre is what's in vogue for now.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

To be fair, Marvel movies are usually good, plus the Superhero genre is what's in vogue for now.

Yeah, they're actually well received by the majority of critics.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

Need a subscription to read the full article. I would like to know their opinion on why this is a trend

 

[Ratrat]

To be fair, Marvel movies are usually good, plus the Superhero genre is what's in vogue for now.

This was the original post:

Thanking them for allowing Hollywood to keep recycling the same crap every year so they don't feel pressured to try something new? No thanks.

The domestic intakes are dropping specifically because American audiences are sick of the same franchises. When something kind of new comes out like Wonder Woman, they'll still go see it. Of course intakes for Pirates 5, Bayformers Whatever, and Tom Cruise Mummy are low - we're sick of them.

You dont find that silly?

I mean, if it makes you guys feel better. America has great taste and likes original films. Rest of the world sucks.

 

[lightskintwin]

This was the original post:

You dont find that silly?

I mean, if it makes you guys feel better. America has great taste and likes original films. Rest of the world sucks.

I mean obviously that's ridiculous of Americans having better taste, but the reality is that Superhero films are trending and currently in the height of their popularity and audiences American or not are interested in watching them.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

Gaps in quality? The three sequels I mentioned earlier were positively recieved. Marvel is the one churning out tired sequels that people eat up. People on this forum complained about Iron Man, Thor or Avenger sequels all the while lining up for the next one.

So basically the cure to franchise fatigue is Marvel. They can make endless superhero rehash films but god forbid a rare movie featuring pirates and mummies exist. The American public would never watch something so unoriginal!

Which sequels are you referring to? Spider-man films? Cause those got trashed and still get trashed regularly, including on this very forum. And they made less money, too. If you mean some other sequels, then that's okay, but I admit I'm not 100% certain as to which sequels you're talking about atm.

I'm not sure why you're trying to make an argument about Marvel's sequels being tired, since they keep being commended for trying different things within their cinematic universe. Most people have been praising Guardians 2 for the tight character work and trippy sci-fi nature, Civil War for the conflict between the two stars of the MCU, Winter Soldier for being a thriller-lite film, everyone's looking forward to the fresh tone of Thor Ragnarok... Thor The Dark World was seen as generic and as a result made less money than the other post-Avengers outings for the main MCU heroes. Marvel making a bunch of superhero films doesn't automatically mean that they're "tired," despite what you're trying to claim.

And again, you're being reductionist. Pirates was sold as another Johnny Depp wacky film affair, and Mummy was sold as another Tom Cruise action film (goofy sound effects plane trailer, anyone?), both of which we've been flooded with for the past two decades. So yes, American audiences are sick of them, and they didn't show up in theaters, Dark Universes be damned.

This was the original post:

You dont find that silly?

I mean, if it makes you guys feel better. America has great taste and likes original films. Rest of the world sucks.

I didn't say America has great taste - I said that Americans want something different than what they've been getting, but Hollywood will keep these franchises going since they make money in their new overseas markets. You assumed I was trying to say that Americans have superior taste, when I didn't say anything of the kind.

 

[Ratrat]

I was talking about Alien, Cars 3 and F8. 2017 movies with positive reception but did considerably worse than usual domestically.

Its at the very least a counter argument to Transformers and Pirates bombing due to just fatigue or ratings.

Movies bomb for different reasons. Its not because one market values originality.

 

[MisterR]

They absolutely haven't wised up. I believe he is perhaps the single most popular thing on Netflix actually. He's up there. Netflix virtually never give out numbers, except for some metrics for their biggest things, and they did recently say something like the average American Netflix viewer has seen over 2 Netflix Adam Sandler movies.

He is easily their biggest and most popular film maker. That is how much intelligent and original American viewers are over everyone else. While in Europe almost every top movie in their respective country is some highly regarded comedy and regardless it is made for adults not children.

It's a uniquely American thing that most of its cinema is simple, and must be understandable for an 8 year old and an 80 year old. That is not the case in the rest of the world.

Oh fuck off with that, the rest of the world eats up Hollywood garbage just like the US does. That's why these films are making so much outside the states. There are good quality movies released all the time in the US as well, that aren't aimed at kids.

 

[lightskintwin]

I was talking about Alien, Cars 3 and F8. 2017 movies with positive reception but did considerably worse than usual domestically.

I think it simply boils down to what's currently trending in America is sometimes different than what's trending in other countries.

Not much else to it than that.

 

[caliph95]

I think it simply boils down to what's currently trending in America is sometimes different than what's trending in other countries.

Not much else to it than that.

Nothing much complicated and the fact the "best" "spectacle" is made in america because Hollywood can throw an entire country gdp at a movie

 

[jmdajr]

Or they like the movies? Fast 8 was tons of fun and is fresh on RottenTomaotes so that's not a case of a "dreck blockbuster" doing better in a foreign market.

And again, Suicide Squad did incredibly well in America. Don't pretend we're some high mark of taste.

We made Twilight a hit!

 

[caliph95]

We made Twilight a hit!

TBF to Americans they did "well" worldwide as well

 

[lightskintwin]

We made Twilight a hit!

Twilight was the beginning of the YA movie adaptation book craze trend that hit it's height with Hunger Games, and started to wane afterwards.

 

[Ratrat]

Twilight was the beginning of the YA movie adaptation book craze trend that hit it's height with Hunger Games, and started to wane afterwards.

Not before giving birth to 50 Shades of Grey.

 

[caliph95]

Twilight was the beginning of the YA movie adaptation book craze trend that hit it's height with Hunger Games, and started to wane afterwards.

How many of them did well besides HG and Twilight

 

[DeathyBoy]

LOL, this old egocentric view.

The rest of the world actually has much better taste than America. The top performing movies in the rest of the world tend to be from their own country. Number one Chinese movie the last decade is an R rated Chinese comedy. In France its an r rated French comedy.

The rest of the world tends to watch good cinema for adults, while English speaking countries tend to watch crappy movies for children, even the adults. The top movies in America and Britain, are all movies made for children and are very simple.

I find it funny that Americans are blaming the foreign market, ummmm, Hollywood would collapse without the foreign market. Ticket sales have been plummeting in America for two decades straight. If anything Americans should be bowing down and thanking the Chinese and the rest for saving their asses.

What rubbish.

All countries make a mix of good and shit cinema. The idea that somehow Europe and Asia create endless masterpieces is some ludicrous twaddle.

 

[Beren the Empty-Handed]

I was talking about Alien, Cars 3 and F8. 2017 movies with positive reception but did considerably worse than usual domestically.

Its at the very least a counter argument to Transformers and Pirates bombing due to just fatigue or ratings.

Movies bomb for different reasons. Its not because one market values originality.

Cars 3 is still early in its run. Its opening weekend is on par with the original Cars and not much less than Cars 2. And if it ends up doing significantly worse than 2 despite being better received, wouldn't that be due to fatigue?

Furious 7 made more money domestically and was about on par with Fate, but doesn't that fact just strengthen the fatigue argument? If there's no large difference in quality or reception, why else would it make less if it wasn't fatigue?

Alien Covenant got trashed left and right from most people I know, and most of this board as well. That and people were still pissed at Prometheus. I'm really not sure what reception your referring to, because people weren't very happy with it from what I can tell.

None of those movies provide a good counter argument if you're trying to say that fatigue isn't the cause of lower intake. Sequels making substantially less is EXACTLY what would indicate fatigue. Fate wasn't really worse, but still made less money. Pirates 5 seems to be significantly worse, and bombed. Wouldn't it make sense to say that Pirates 5 is just an extreme case of what happened to Fate? Isn't that possible?

 

[lightskintwin]

Not before giving birth to 50 Shades of Grey.

Sure, and when the first movie hit, it capitalized during the height of the book's popularity and trending YA craze. It was a global success. By the time the 2nd movie came out, you already see it taking a hit despite it still being a global success.

 

[MartyStu]

Oh I'm a snob who definitely think it's the former, though I haven't watched FotF and I heard decent things.

Speaking as someone who lives in one of the markets where these movies over-perform, I think it's a combo of high production values/VFX and hype enough premise. The majority don't give a shit about dialog/acting/script/pace since it's not in their native language, and good and terrible movies sometimes end up sounding the same after being run through translation/subtitles.

This is a very important point.

 

[kswiston]

What rubbish.

All countries make a mix of good and shit cinema. The idea that somehow Europe and Asia create endless masterpieces is some ludicrous twaddle.

China is having a Hollywood resurgence this year because the local offerings are low budget trash far too often. The Mermaid shows the potential of local Chinese films vs Hollywood studf there, but too few local studios are trying to make good films. Even if "good" just means good action and set pieces.

 

[lightskintwin]

China is having a Hollywood resurgence this year because the local offerings are low budget trash far too often. The Mermaid shows the potential of local Chinese films vs Hollywood studf there, but too few local studios are trying to make good films. Even if "good" just means good action and set pieces.

Hell, I didn't think The Mermaid was that good. One of the weakest Stephen Chow films I'd seen.

 

[Hari Seldon]

The real reason is that Muricans have huge houses that can support massive TVs and therefore there is very little need to go see a movie, unless you want to gtfo of your house with your kids and go see a kids movie.

Also, American TV fucking CRUSHES American Cinema anyway. If I have time to kill to watch something it is 9/10 times going to be something in the HBO, Starz, or Netflix back catalog rather than a movie.

 

[Fuchsdh]

Mostly I appreciate China burst the bubble of long-standing that "it's stupid American films for their dumb audiences" ruining movies. Clearly there's a market for this shit.

How many of them did well besides HG and Twilight

The opening films of a few did well, they just fell off a cliff afterwards (Divergent, Percy Jackson.) The vast majority did sputter immediately, though, although to be fair, I think some of the more egregious adaptations came before HG and HP wrapped up (the sadly abysmal adaptations of The Darkness is Rising and The Giver come to mind.)

 

[Spuck-uk]

It's kinda crazy how much better America's CGI is than everyone else's.

The studios doing the CGI are more often than not outside America.

 

[Sirpopopop]

Seems pretty good to me. Are those franchises usually in the 80-90 range? Whats your point.

Their scores qualify as fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.

You were replying to a poster talking about movies like Baywatch being a sign of negative reviews ruining a movie's BO(19% on RT), by pointing out those three movies as examples of poorly reviewed movies that were successful. It's the only way your reply to said poster makes sense.

Unless you meant to say, "I agree that negative reviews can sink a movie. Alien: Covenant, F8, & Cars 3 had decent reviews and did not flop." Given the information at hand, that statement would make a more fact based reply than the one you gave.

Furthermore, let's look at the three franchises that you supposedly say usually score in the 80s/90s:

Cars - 74%
Cars 2 - 39%

Fast & Furious - 53%
2 Fast 2 Furious - 36%
Tokyo Drift - 37%
F4 - 28%
F5 - 77% (BO jump too!)
F6 - 69%
F7 - 79%

Alien: 97%
Aliens: 98%
Alien 3: 46%
Alien: Resurrection: 54%
Prometheus: 73%

Only two out of the 14 films in these franchises scored in the 80s/90s. Your premise of, "These films usually score in the 80s/90s," is factually false.

If you want to include scores of 70% or greater the number jumps to six out of 14. Still not enough to qualify as "usually." The recent entries in these franchise either keep with overall series quality or improve upon it. Thus, they further the argument that good reviews matter, as all 3 films were decently successful.

 

[lightskintwin]

The studios doing the CGI are more often than not outside America.

I'm pretty certain he meant the CGI used in American films.

 

[kswiston]

Hell, I didn't think The Mermaid was that good. One of the weakest Stephen Chow films I'd seen.

I'm not going to speak for what is good and not good to Chinese Audiences. Their Hollywood Top 5 is Furious 8, Pirates 5, King Kong, XXX3, and Resident Evil 6. Transformers 5 will be #2 on that list after this weekend.

The local stuff isn't offering enough of what they are getting from those.

Kung Fu Yoga and Journey to the West 2 made big money there this year though.

 

[Ratrat]

Cars 3 is still early in its run. Its opening weekend is on par with the original Cars and not much less than Cars 2. And if it ends up doing significantly worse than 2 despite being better received, wouldn't that be due to fatigue?

Furious 7 made more money domestically and was about on par with Fate, but doesn't that fact just strengthen the fatigue argument? If there's no large difference in quality or reception, why else would it make less if it wasn't fatigue?

Alien Covenant got trashed left and right from most people I know, and most of this board as well. That and people were still pissed at Prometheus. I'm really not sure what reception your referring to, because people weren't very happy with it from what I can tell.

None of those movies provide a good counter argument if you're trying to say that fatigue isn't the cause of lower intake. Sequels making substantially less is EXACTLY what would indicate fatigue. Fate wasn't really worse, but still made less money. Pirates 5 seems to be significantly worse, and bombed. Wouldn't it make sense to say that Pirates 5 is just an extreme case of what happened to Fate? Isn't that possible?

I said just fatigue or ratings. We've already established Americans viewing habbits arent dictated by RT% and originality so im not sure what you are still going on about.
Maybe you want to say Americans have very selective fatigue when it suits a narrative.

Their scores qualify as fresh on Rotten Tomatoes.

You were replying to a poster talking about movies like Baywatch being a sign of negative reviews ruining a movie's BO(19% on RT), by pointing out those three movies as examples of poorly reviewed movies that were successful. It's the only way your reply to said poster makes sense...

What?
Im sorry you typed all that out first. But you seem to have completely misunderstood the post.

 

[Shadowhelper]

You really have a rose-colored view of non-american cinema. The french comedies you mentioned in your posts are considered to be absolutely terrible 99% of the time around here by most critics and they review much more poorly than those Hollywood movies "made for children" as you call them. And the "adult films"? They make no money at all and exist only thanks to governement subsidies for the most part. Nobody goes to see them. There are exceptions of course and I'm painting with a broad brush but so are you.

When everything Christian Clavier does somehow makes money, I don't think you can say that french audiences have better taste than americans. Adam Sandler probably has a better filmography than Clavier. There's good and bad everywhere and american cinema is still one of the most celebrated in the entire world, including in publications like Les Cahiers du Cinéma. It's not just Hollywood blockbusters.

No I don't.

I never said non America cinema is better. I said its different. And it is. Popular American cinema is aimed at a younger audience. I don't know how anyone could really deny that.

As for what is better, which I never qualified, its really a matter of preference. If you read my post more carefully, I specifically said the top movies are highly regarded, in China anyway, not that I highly regard them. I used those words specifically, because I am not qualifying one as better, and specifically so people wouldn't misunderstand and be inevitably offended, as silly as it is to be offended.

Anyway, my point was, that I think was clear is, that American audiences are certainly not more intelligent or more sophisticated than foreign audiences as some people were implying.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

No I don't.

I never said non America cinema is better. I said its different. And it is. Popular American cinema is aimed at a younger audience. I don't know how anyone could really deny that.

As for what is better, which I never qualified, its really a matter of preference. If you read my post more carefully, I specifically said the top movies are highly regarded, in China anyway, not that I highly regard them. I used those words specifically, because I am not qualifying one as better, and specifically so people wouldn't misunderstand and be inevitably offended, as silly as it is to be offended.

Anyway, my point was, that I think was clear is, that American audiences are certainly not more intelligent or more sophisticated than foreign audiences as some people were implying.

I agree with your last sentence. But I find it hard to reconcile this post with your previous interventions in this thread, like these examples:

The rest of the world actually has much better taste than America.

The rest of the world tends to watch good cinema for adults, while English speaking countries tend to watch crappy movies for children, even the adults.

You were clearly making a pretty harsh judgment call. And popular cinema all around the world is always aimed at wide audiences, that's why it's called popular cinema.

 

[slightconfuse]

Is it just attrition? Just a pure numbers game?