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[Ceadeus]

Let me be someone somewhat cool

 

[caligula13]

I don't get the game pass hate. it is a cheap way to test so many games without buying them. and with the rising prices of games, why not?

 

[Baemono]

I don't get the game pass hate. it is a cheap way to test so many games without buying them. and with the rising prices of games, why not?

Cause people want healthy competition, and it was a terrible idea that ruined Xbox, and they kept doubling down at every sign showing this was a terrible idea until forcing themselves to become 3rd party.

It's like keep punching yourself in the face while your teeth are falling appart. Dentits love it, but you should really stop, not taking a bigger bat with nails on it to go harder

 

[caligula13]

Cause people want healthy competition, and it was a terrible idea that ruined Xbox, and they kept doubling down at every sign showing this was a terrible idea until forcing themselves to become 3rd party.

It's like keep punching yourself in the face while your teeth are falling appart. Dentits love it, but you should really stop, not taking a bigger bat with nails on it to go harder

well, excuse me, I am the dentist in your story and since those companies don't give a frack about me, as we have seen over and over again, I will gladly use Game pass to save money. And to be honest, I don't see this whole xbox thing as a sign of unhealthy competition.

 

[TheChumpNation]

Lol. So it's barely grown since last year, where any reasonable interpretation of the numbers showed subs had, if anything, declined slightly as the increase was due to the death of Gold.

Gamepass subscription numbers have essentially been stagnant for years now.

 

[mayham2199]

It's amazing people in this thread still don't understand what Microsoft's aim is, they're second highest in revenue only to Sony and considering the install base size difference not that far behind them at all only a couple billion per quarter.

It wouldn't surprise me if the end goal is gamepass on PS5 at this point. Software sales and subscription services is where the money is it's the reason they're the richest and largest company in the world. Hardware isn't it, it's a loss leader.

They don't care where you play games, they just want your money.

I agree with you about software sales but your wrong about the hardware. Sony uses the hardware to create an ecosystem where they get 30% of all the software that is sold on their hardware. There's a reason Apple makes so much money from the Iphone and there's a reason Sony is still ahead of MS in revenue and they didn't need to spend 70+ billion to get there. It's hilarious how you can't see that the biggest company in mobile and in gaming both used their hardware to get to that position. They simply gave other game companies access to their ecosystem and raked in the money.

The EU ruling isn't something I'm even worried about they made it clear during the whole Apple case that consoles were different.

 

[playbignbox]

Cause people want healthy competition, and it was a terrible idea that ruined Xbox, and they kept doubling down at every sign showing this was a terrible idea until forcing themselves to become 3rd party.

It's like keep punching yourself in the face while your teeth are falling appart. Dentits love it, but you should really stop, not taking a bigger bat with nails on it to go harder

Man, you have to be really naive to believe that people criticize GamePass because they want "competition".

And MS didn't become a third party because of GamePass, they became a third party because of the low installed base of the Xbox, which is not GamePass' fault. In fact, I know many people who only bought an Xbox because of GamePass, you can be sure that hardware sales without this service would be worse.

 

[Mattyp]

As much as I think gaming would be better if all hardware was open, I don't think governments should decide this. The courts make a clear difference between general purpose devices like smartphones and between luxury devices like gaming systems.

If open gaming systems are truly better then I believe we will see that shift happen anyway. In fact, I'd say it's already happening with the growing popularity of PC gaming.

And you know that the US court has also forced Apple to change how their store works, right? In a different way than in the EU, but I would argue that the US ruling may be more damaging to Apple.

I don't agree with it either, I buy an iPhone because it's a closed ecosystem instead of androids wash of shit. I don't think any government should get involved but I feel that's where this is heading, it's the only closed off ecosystem left at this point but when you look at the picture side by side the same rules by law should apply.

I agree with you about software sales but your wrong about the hardware. Sony uses the hardware to create an ecosystem where they get 30% of all the software that is sold on their hardware. There's a reason Apple makes so much money from the Iphone and there's a reason Sony is still ahead of MS in revenue and they didn't need to spend 70+ billion to get there. It's hilarious how you can't see that the biggest company in mobile and in gaming both used their hardware to get to that position. They simply gave other game companies access to their ecosystem and raked in the money.

The EU ruling isn't something I'm even worried about they made it clear during the whole Apple case that consoles were different.

Yes they gather that 30% because they're the only store front in town, this is my point of the battle of Apple, governments, epic, Microsoft even on Apple devices. They've pushed and pushed to open that environment so Apple will loose that 30%, once Sony looses that 30% they've handed over a massive hardware base that's already established.

Why are consoles different but? The they're no different than that of an iPad or iPhone except they don't make calls. The EU cannot help its self in industries they have no creation in, watch this space over the next 5-10 years. That's where I truely believe this is headed and we'll see Gamepass on PlayStation.

 

[Humdinger]

ROG Ally and potential future console plans might ramp this up quite a bit. Game Pass as it was known up until now and what it can be from now on are two different things.

No, it won't. Anyone willing to pay the price for the Rog Ally X, which people are speculating will be priced at around $1,000, will already be hardcore Xbox fans. They are the type to already be subbed to GP. So they won't add to the numbers. Besides, as others have pointed out, these Rog Ally handhelds don't sell all that well.

To be honest that's not a bad number at all to have as a recurring income. Taking the absolute worst case scenario, say they only had 12 million people which are ultimate and full paying customers - this is likely to be higher but again worse case. 12m * 14.99 - 20% (VAT in UK but apply local taxes) and that equates to almost 145m a month. Multiply that by 12 and you get 1.75bn. I've left out currency but these values apply to US / UK currently.

That's quite a chunk of beans to pay for licensing / play-time and new acquisitions to the platform. I guess it must be working as the service recently only seems to be getting better with content both from MS and third-parties. I know people love to hate it, but it seems to make a lot of sense for them.

Don't forget to account for the costs of game development, marketing, and all of the managerial and support structures. That always seems to get overlooked in the revenue discussions. MS has taken on huge development houses, and they each have huge operating expenses attached.

When you give away games for cheap Day 1 on GP, you undercut the main source of revenue - game sales. If that truly "worked" for them, they would not have done the 180 and began releasing everything on Playstation. That's the only way they could keep GP sustainable.

 

[mckmas8808]

Don't forget to account for the costs of game development, marketing, and all of the managerial and support structures. That always seems to get overlooked in the revenue discussions. MS has taken on huge development houses, and they each have huge operating expenses attached.

When you give away games for cheap Day 1 on GP, you undercut the main source of revenue - game sales. If that truly "worked" for them, they would not have done the 180 and began releasing everything on Playstation. That's the only way they could keep GP sustainable.

It shocks me that people seem to either forget or plain not understand the bolded.

 

[Humdinger]

It shocks me that people seem to either forget or plain not understand the bolded.

Easy to be impressed with big revenue numbers, I guess. They forget about the expense side of the equation.

 

[nowhat]

Easy to be impressed with big revenue numbers, I guess.

It's the only way to be impressed, because Microsoft hasn't released dedicated profit numbers (or hardware sales) for the gaming division in what seems to be an eternity.

 

[Jigsaah]

He also makes perfectly valid points.

Yea I don't disagree with them either. That's not what I'm asking for. When all is said and done, what do the financials say. That's all I'm asking for. I don't understand why this is so difficult? My thinking is that regardless of these points...if the financials are strong then something has to be working? If you review my initial post that started all this, the question was "Can somebody explain to me how this (gamepass) is not sustainable?

Topher I think had the best answer so far.

 

[mayham2199]

Why are consoles different but? The they're no different than that of an iPad or iPhone except they don't make calls. The EU cannot help its self in industries they have no creation in, watch this space over the next 5-10 years. That's where I truely believe this is headed and we'll see Gamepass on PlayStation.

I don't remember the whole court case anymore but it had something to do with the fact that Iphones are so important and used for business. Also they are specialized devices just for gaming while the Iphone is a multipurpose PC like device. Consoles and Ipads are way different. I have attorneys who use Ipad to present court case exhibits, you can't do that with a PS5. Have another attorney who remote into the terminal server with his Ipad. You can't do that on PS5. There's no office applications to setup email or do office work either.

Even if the EU tried to enforce it it would only apply to the EU just like Apple. So don't expect Sony to open the store everywhere. Just like in the EU you can get PSN refunds because the EU forces Sony to allow this but not in the US. I can guarantee the FTC wont give a shit about this at all.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Yea I don't disagree with them either. That's not what I'm asking for. When all is said and done, what do the financials say. That's all I'm asking for. I don't understand why this is so difficult? My thinking is that regardless of these points...if the financials are strong then something has to be working? If you review my initial post that started all this, the question was "Can somebody explain to me how this (gamepass) is not sustainable?

Topher I think had the best answer so far.

That's the thing: Microsoft NEVER shares them.

 

[StueyDuck]

I don't get the game pass hate. it is a cheap way to test so many games without buying them. and with the rising prices of games, why not?

I don't think it's hate about Game Pass itself, no one is angry that it's cheap.

more that it's created a race to the bottom, much like how the mobile gaming market went.

there is also the argument of content for contents sake rather than curation and quality for the customer.

I'd argue all the subscription models, not just gamepass are inevitably going to have a long term detrimental affect on the industry.

The question is whether the industry can pivot or adapt, or whether "make things cost more" a la Nintendo, is going to be the answer.