More_Badass
Member
I gave the game a try in spite of those GIFs, not because of them. I dismissed the series for years because that's all I ever saw of these games
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Yakuza 0 |OT| Yes, you can start with this one!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
lucebuce12
Member
I didn't mean it as some sort of slight to the game. I haven't played it myself but all that i've seen of the game looks fantastic and it certainly deserves all the sales that it got.
I'm still just a bit salty that a game like NieR:Automata that came "out of nowhere" managed to sell over a million copies while a game like Yakuza 0 didn't even reach 500k. This is where I believe the PC version comes into play.
Son Of Sparda
Member
^
It's okay luce, trust me Yoko Taro and Drakengard series really deserved those sales. Before Nier Automata, the Drakengard series was very underrated just like how Yakuza is right now.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1319598
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1329069
It's okay luce, trust me Yoko Taro and Drakengard series really deserved those sales. Before Nier Automata, the Drakengard series was very underrated just like how Yakuza is right now.
Well, I'm sorry to hear that. But we did our best to try and explain what the series is and what it isn't, past the ridiculous gifs.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1319598
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1329069
More_Badass
Member
I read those threads. To be honest, none of those threads really get across the nature of the stories here. They certainly talk about what you do, what the general gameplay is like, the mechanics, the minigames, but none ever made me think these games were ever as serious or narrative focused as they are
That's really all there is, and only one of those - "deep crime sagas" - even really hints at it. Everything else gives a completely different impression of the story and game. The accompanying GIFs also colored how one would consider those comments about the story. How deep and serious could a story be if it includes those things? (Not at all, would be the assumption)
That's the "newcomer who doesn't follow the series" perspective.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I see what you mean.
And thank you for your input. I'll definitely bring this stuff up if we ever decided to make other Yakuza threads in the future.
More_Badass
Member
If anything, the big focus in those threads on mechanics, minigames, and whatnot versus how little story is mentioned made it seem like story was an afterthought compared to fighting and minigames in the series
lucebuce12
Member
To be fair, Yakuza 0 was deliberately made to harkin back to the crime infested origins of the series. Yakuza 1 and 2 were heavily "grounded" crime based stories about the Yakuza.
While Y3,4 and 5 were also about the Yakuza, they were definitely more personal stories and shit sometimes got real out of hand. Though the saving grace for Y4 and Y5 was that the individual parts of the game that are dedicated to each protagonist honestly felt like separate games in their own right, having almost entirely different tones.
Akiyama's part in Y4 is a straight up Noir story, Tanimura's part in Y4 felt like a Chinese cop thriller, Shinada's story in Y5 was
, the videogame version.
Point is that while we were trying to sell Y0 we really didn't know how good and how gritty the story was. The series has gotten all over the place quite frankly. If we had known then what we know now about the story, perhaps we would've highlighted the story more.
While Y3,4 and 5 were also about the Yakuza, they were definitely more personal stories and shit sometimes got real out of hand. Though the saving grace for Y4 and Y5 was that the individual parts of the game that are dedicated to each protagonist honestly felt like separate games in their own right, having almost entirely different tones.
Akiyama's part in Y4 is a straight up Noir story, Tanimura's part in Y4 felt like a Chinese cop thriller, Shinada's story in Y5 was
Hot Fuzz
Point is that while we were trying to sell Y0 we really didn't know how good and how gritty the story was. The series has gotten all over the place quite frankly. If we had known then what we know now about the story, perhaps we would've highlighted the story more.
Son Of Sparda
Member
One thing that I wanna add is that, it's a little hard from our perspective as long time fans to judge how good the story in each game is. Being fans of the series and having stayed with these characters and their stories through different games, you really reach a point when you wonder "is this story really as good as I feel it is, or am I enjoying this because I have played Yakuza 3, Yakuza 4, etc and known these characters for years"
It's hard to see and judge the story in each game without considering the fact that your view as a fan might be skewed. And that's a problem that you largely don't have when you talk about mechanics and gameplay. It's much easier to judge those stuff and understand how newcomers might enjoy them. As a result it's easier to focus on those parts.
But you are absolutely right, we should talk more about the great stories and characters that is found within the series.
More_Badass
Member
I was thinking something similar, but wasn't sure how to word it in my other post As a veteran, you're probably acclimated to the stories and how they're told, so it doesn't seem as unique and impressive as it might to someone checking out the series for the first time
Yep I'm excited for Yoko Taro. I can't wait to play Nier:Automata but I'm waiting for a sale on Steam as I think my PC could play it way better than my OG PS4. It's still US$50 where i live. Will happily bite at US$30.
But my guess is that (and I'm sorry if it sounds incredibly shallow) is that Nier is a Japanese game without any of the Japanese cultural attachments. Japanese games that don't sell themselves as Japanese seem to do great with the western audience, things like Bayonetta or Dark Souls or Street Fighter or even things like Mario. It's only when it becomes steeped in Japanese culture like Yakuza or Way of the Samurai that people become disinterested because I think gamers associate themselves with western culture more. I think even Sleeping Dogs had trouble to begin with until it got some deep discounting on PSN/Steam and then people realised it was a great GTA clone so it got a bigger following. I also don't think the subtitles help at all for Yakuza, I know many people who aren't willing to read subtitles even for movies.
Is there a Japanese game with a strong Japanese flavour that was a complete bonafide hit? Shenmue might be the only one I can think of, but even that had a English dub.
Those were good threads and fun times, if I do say so myself!
But I have to apologise somewhat because I hadn't played the game when I made that thread, so I was just 'hoping' it was good. It just turned out to be one of the greatest games ever for me!The thread I made, it was based on past titles, particularly Yakuza 4 and 5 as they were the latest and extrapolating what Yakuza 0 possibly could be given what we'd seen in preview clips. It was a mix of what the game was about and what it was like to play the game without focusing on the story. I think most people like myself tried to keep away from spoilers and enjoy it fresh going into the game. I'm someone that's always happy to wait for the western release even if it means waiting a year or two.
eyeball_kid
Member
To some extent it's probably hard to convince newcomers about the quality of the story because it's so impressive despite its budget, and the wacky gifs don't exactly say "gripping stories, characters you'll care about, and acting performances that seem too good for a videogame." Some of my favorite moments in Y0 are the low-boil scenes between two characters, which is hard to get across with any kind of gif. But I think there's enough people talking about the quality of the story and characters now that people are starting to get interested.
I don't think I even really understood the fight mechanics until I played Y0. I knew it was a brawler, but most of what I had seen was the heat move gifs. I didn't realize the fighting mechanics (for a beat-em-up) were so complex and so fun, though maybe it helps that Y0 has such a diversity of styles. I think a video link to someone stylin' on thugs in Rush mode or something could help get across that the fight system has a lot of nuance. Just a thought.
Anytime I mention Yakuza, it's normally about how good/crazy the story is which doesn't get many responses so I'm glad zero is doing well.
It was a struggle being a fan since 3 as you wouldn't know if they were going to continue to localize it and now we have 2 coming out in a short period.
It was a struggle being a fan since 3 as you wouldn't know if they were going to continue to localize it and now we have 2 coming out in a short period.
Shadowman16
Member
The only bright side of this was that I broke down and just imported the entire series from Japan. Best decision I made, especially since two of the best games in the series (Ishin and Kenzan) are still Japan only.
But it is great seeing far more people enjoying 0 especially, and I can't wait for the Kiwami OT in a couple of months to see how people enjoy the original Yakuza game.
Alright, I'm going to check in with my local EB in the morning and see if I can nab a copy, I'm a bit late on this one. I'm already sold on the game, but I have a few questions before I jump in.
So, is it a fairly typical open world structure, main missions, side missions, weird optional stuff in the world (eg. the playable arcade games), I've heard stuff about Real Estate, is it a major component?
How is the combat? I can't actually think of any AAA brawler-type games, I'm not that into 2D brawlers, but anything from character-action games to Batman-style combat I adore -- I can't really think of anything to compare the combat too here, I'd just like to someone talk about what makes the combat feel great and work.
Oh and I know this is a prequel and all, but is there anything I should know about the story before going in? As everyone says this is a prefect series entry point, but I just thought I'd double check.
Finally, if anyone has any hot tips in general that would be appreciated.
So, is it a fairly typical open world structure, main missions, side missions, weird optional stuff in the world (eg. the playable arcade games), I've heard stuff about Real Estate, is it a major component?
How is the combat? I can't actually think of any AAA brawler-type games, I'm not that into 2D brawlers, but anything from character-action games to Batman-style combat I adore -- I can't really think of anything to compare the combat too here, I'd just like to someone talk about what makes the combat feel great and work.
Oh and I know this is a prequel and all, but is there anything I should know about the story before going in? As everyone says this is a prefect series entry point, but I just thought I'd double check.
Finally, if anyone has any hot tips in general that would be appreciated.
Son Of Sparda
Member
I think the success of Nier was due to a number of things. From having a really good presence at different gaming events/conferences, to being made by a studio that has a lot of passionate fans, and then having an English demo months before its release. It also helped that the game had a very good dub and being an action game made it much easier for people to understand how it works.
I think the problem with Yakuza is that it's still not very well marketed. The marketing with Yakuza 0 was much better than past entries but they still have ways to go.
As for any other apparent Japanese game managing to be a success in the west. We just had Persona 5 do amazing numbers here.
Well, here is where the nicheness of the series comes to play. If you type "Devil May Cry combo", you'll get tons of great videos that you can show to other people to explain what the game is and how it works, but for Yakuza? You can't find any of those. Further more, Yakuza 0 was the first mainline entry to add styles so the gameplay systems were unlike what we had seen before. Add the fact that you couldn't even use the share button in the first playthrough of Japanese version, so it should be easy to see how difficult it was at the time, to find right videos to explain these stuff.
lucebuce12
Member
The game is divided into 4 components.
Main story > Side Business > Substories (or side quests) > Fun Activities. The Main story is usually separate, but those last 3 can occasionally intersect. e.g a substory that's only accessible by progressing in your side business, etc. Yes, it's somewhat standard open world in that you have the freedom to play at your own pace and do (or not do) whatever you feel like. The Real estate is the Side Business for Kiryu, and Cabaret Club management is the side business for Majima.
It's a beat em up. The Arkham/Sleeping Dogs comparison is really not apt. Look up videos online, or if you've played Spikeout then it's quite similar. (Makes sense since they shared project heads)
All you should know is that Kiryu is the most manliest man to ever walk the face of the earth.
For Hot tips, I'll repost what I posted in another thread just recently.
Remember that there is no autosave. You have to save at a phone in your home base, or on the streets.
Just play at your own pace. The game is fairly slow but starts to open up by chapter 2 so you can just follow the main story, or do substories at your own pace it's up to you.
Substories (side quests) aren't marked on the main map, but you CAN obtain an item later on for both characters that reveals the start location for them.
The game allows you to finish every single side activity before the ending of the game, as well as AFTER finishing the story so don't worry about that.
And finally:
Son Of Sparda
Member
For combat stuff, I suggest reading this. It might give you an idea on how the combat works.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=225416182&postcount=2
It is an OW game but it features a small yet dense environment. Don't expect this to be GTA. Don't expect it to be like any other game, really. But yes, the mission structure is pretty obvious as to what is side mission and what are the main stuff.
As for tips.
- Saving is manual and done by phone booths
- Stock up on health items/stamina drinks, especially before going into big fights
- Don't equip charismatic autobiography
Edit: Ah, I see that luce has already beaten me to this
More_Badass
Member
It's not like your typical open world game. I wouldn't even call it open world. More like open neighborhood. The world is small but dense and lively. I can't really think of any other game to compare it to
It's very story driven, you always have an objective but there are side missions to stumble upon and side stuff to do throughout the world that really makes the place feel lived-in and charming. It's more of an action JRPG feel, with random battles with thugs and other people, an inventory, skill trees, and so on.
The combat is really satisfying. 3D beat-em-up, that just feels powerful. It never gets old getting into fights because seeing your hits land and pulling off spine-shattering finishes is so fun. Every fighting style feels unique, and there are tons of contextual finishers to discover
eyeball_kid
Member
I was speaking generally about the series, but I get what you're saying. I think actually I had a good idea of the fighting system going into Y0 compared to the previous entries, so YakuzaGAF did a good job there. In the past, my understanding of Yakuza (aside from the first one, which at the time I assumed was a JP knockoff of GTA) was basically that it was a beat-em-up with over the top super moves and wacky humor and emulated Sega games. Maybe back in the Y3-Y4 days the fighting system just wasn't that refined?
The combat feels sort of like a simplified Tekken? Basic moves, grabs, blocking, evasion techniques, and you have a skill tree to unlock more advanced moves. You can choose to either lock on to one person, or control the direction of your attacks. Which one you want to do depends on the style you're using and the combat situation. Each character has three styles, which you'll want to switch up depending on the situation. Kiryu's Rush mode is good for dealing with groups of enemies, as is Majima's breakdancing mode. Heat moves are powerful moves that are triggered by situations, such as being close to a wall, or having an object nearby you can pick up and smash over their heads. There are tons of these moves and require specific situations to trigger, so it keeps the fights fresh. You can also use weapons and guns (and so can enemies), and there's a ton of them to find. IMO they're a bit clumsy, so I only used them when I had to (generally when I was fighting a large group).
Boss fights are more about learning their attack patterns, getting a few hits in, then dodging and strafing around them. They hit hard and especially early in the game you have to avoid going toe to toe with them.
It was my first Yakuza and had no trouble with the characters; the game does an excellent job of introducing everyone, they don't assume you know. The only thing that may be confusing at first is the yakuza organizational stuff, which is kind of convoluted. Feel free to ask here if you don't understand.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
The JRPG comparison brings me to one minor thing I kinda miss in 0. I don't know if the first games had this, but 4 and 5 at least had a whole bunch of random townsfolk NPCs that you could talk to, apart from the sidequest characters and shop owners that are still present in 0.
They had the usual flavor dialogue you'd expect from RPG townsfolk but it gave even more life to the city, especially when their dialogue would change over the course of the game.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Ah I see.
The truth is that before Yakuza 0, we didn't really try that much to bring more people on board. Y3-Y4 were released in somewhat timely manners and with Y5 we were just happy to get the game in whatever form we could.
It was when they announced Yakuza 0 that most of saw an opportunity to sell more people on the series, so we pushed for that game.
More_Badass
Member
I like that they just dropped you into the deep end of the Yakuza politics/hierarchy stuff, rather than easing you in. Kind of has that GoT backstabbing/alliances/warring factions appeal in that way. You learn on the go (ie GoT not having some big expositions scene about what the Hand of the King is in the pilot, but you learn throughout the episode in how the characters talk about titles, past events, and context)
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Time to play!
eyeball_kid
Member
Yeah you're right, it is very GoT in that way. I wonder if the Japanese audience is more familiar with the inner workings of the yakuza? But it wasn't impenetrable, and I kind of liked trying to figure out all the political relationships.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Already know this catfighting game is going to CONSUME me...
I spent more time on the Arcade I ever expect to, beating the girl employee high score lol
You can always cheese the bosses by baiting them into an attack.
And yeah what an amazing fight. I felt so on top of the world after that.
I think that's the problem right there. I don't think Sega know exactly how to market it and I don't have any ideas either, but it delivers expected profits so they just keep making it. I mean they even had all the youtubers play the game this time around like Angry Joe (which probably gets a lot of mainstream views) and it only moved the needle slightly on sales.
And your other comment about Yakuza gameplay vs DMC gameplay is on point too. I'm not going to lie, first impressions of Yakuza makes it look like a stock standard brawler.
And I was blown away by the Persona 5 numbers. There is a hunger for a good JRPG, and though I expected good numbers for it, its at 1.5m shipped? That's crazy for a JRPG based on teens and school life and takes 100 hours to finish.
So, I'm done with 0.
Wow.
Undoubtedly the best in the series, but also such a well made game in general. Not to say older games weren't well designed, but everything is so cohesive and connected in 0 that I found it genius, but I actually worry we won't ever get another game like this in the series.
The game was a blast to play on Hard from a combat perspective, and all the mini-games I tried were super fun.
The story was great too and perhaps my favorite along with 3's, followed by 2's.
Now, story stuff:
The good
-They didn't take the easy way and made it pure fanservice and went for a very creative plot that involved both characters
-
-It's good to have romance back in Yakuza, and it's handled very well and without much cliché
-The entire ending was top notch and powerful
-They made Nishiki's selfish and uninteresting ass actually likeable and now Y1 will feel more satisfying
The bad
-Where in hell was Yumi
-Kazama is yet again just a living legend but barely a character
-Kashiwagi is very underutilized for some reason
-Enough with tragic women worth a billion yen who have to go though hell and back to motivate the protagonists, geez.
-
But yeah that's it, fantastic game, and oh, bosses were the best in the series too, and boy I feel this is the first time the series has genuinely good music since Y2. Y5 was good too but not enough.
Now I'm super stocked waiting for Kiwami. I'm so ready for Majima Everywhere.
Wow.
Undoubtedly the best in the series, but also such a well made game in general. Not to say older games weren't well designed, but everything is so cohesive and connected in 0 that I found it genius, but I actually worry we won't ever get another game like this in the series.
The game was a blast to play on Hard from a combat perspective, and all the mini-games I tried were super fun.
The story was great too and perhaps my favorite along with 3's, followed by 2's.
Now, story stuff:
The good
-They didn't take the easy way and made it pure fanservice and went for a very creative plot that involved both characters
both avoided making them meet and have inconsistencies with future games.
They never meet but they're aware of each other's participation in the conflict and realize they're indirectly co-operating. That's genius because it makes their relationship in future games make a lot of sense. They don't know each other that much but have a deep trust
-The entire ending was top notch and powerful
-They made Nishiki's selfish and uninteresting ass actually likeable and now Y1 will feel more satisfying
The bad
-Where in hell was Yumi
-Kazama is yet again just a living legend but barely a character
-Kashiwagi is very underutilized for some reason
-Enough with tragic women worth a billion yen who have to go though hell and back to motivate the protagonists, geez.
At least they didn't kill her, I'd have been so pissed
It takes balls to kill off characters but they went overboard probably because they couldn't make up excuses for them to not show up in other games... Lame. I mean Tachibana was overkill and not letting him meet his sister before dying was totally unnecessary
But yeah that's it, fantastic game, and oh, bosses were the best in the series too, and boy I feel this is the first time the series has genuinely good music since Y2. Y5 was good too but not enough.
Now I'm super stocked waiting for Kiwami. I'm so ready for Majima Everywhere.
Shadowman16
Member
Some of the weapons are crazy. My favourite in the series has always been the Marlin spear. You catch a Marlin and then mod it with a staff and you get a super fish/weapon hybrid. Its crazy and brilliant at the same time!
N° 2048
Member
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
One of my favorite, underrated sidequests was the one where you rescue an old lady from a group of thugs and in turn she tried to pull you into a pyramid scheme involving a can of water.
More_Badass
Member
For all the NPC interactions in Watch Dogs 2, or the detail in GTA, I find the world here feels more alive than any of those because something is always happening. You're either notice something to deal with, or something stuff that stumbles into your way.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
Don't do it.
Mediking
Member
So there's no substory there or cool character to join Kiryu's firm or something?
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
No, nothing like that. Just CP and a trophy.
#1 defender
Member
Reposting myself from earlier in the thread:
With that said, you don't have to bother with it if you're not trying to platinum the game.
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
Mediking
Member
That sounds over-complicated for a fanservice minigame. I won't do it again. Lol
Just like with the stupid mechanic of rolling the right analog stick in a circle to pick the option in that telephone minigame. Like why choose such an awkward motion???
Charlouie Jonesman
Banned
To simulate the old-school rotary dial.
#1 defender
Member
Fair enough, i wouldn't have done it either if i wasn't going for the platinum.
Because it mimics old phones with a circular dial. It's a bit awkward, but i thought that mini game was fairly amusing.
allintospace
Member
Just finished chapter 1 and first impressions are pretty good. I like the Sega arcade feel I'm getting from it, pleasantly reminds me of the 90s. The story is certainly intriguing and has already surprised me once. The combat I haven't gotten to grips with at all yet as I've forgotten a lot of what the tutorial told me. I've only glanced at the sphere grids as well. It's all pretty nifty so far tho.
The only thing niggling me is the buildings, stores and people. I don't know what I can and can't interact with at the moment. It's a bit confusing.
The only thing niggling me is the buildings, stores and people. I don't know what I can and can't interact with at the moment. It's a bit confusing.
Glad you're enjoying it.
Use the map in the menu to tell you what shops and buildings you can go in.