Yooka-Laylee |OT| Reptile Rolling in the 90’s

Glasshole said:
No belittling going on in my post, please keep your projections to yourself. You're literally the one calling my statement stupid. I said it goes to show reviews have limited usefulness.
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That's not how what you said comes across at all. You were relating the impressions of a friend who was having trouble with parts that you couldn't fathom anyone finding difficult, then said that reviews or opinions can't be trusted. You were talking about not trusting the negative impressions of gamers in this statement as well. Your entire narrative was your friend not being a trustworthy source because he found it hard and you didn't. Unless your friend is a reviewer, you are discrediting the opinions of regular gamers with that.

There's tons of people in this thread who had trouble with those parts, myself included. I had trouble because they are poorly made and I cannot fathom that they were playtested. Bad control, not fun, too strict win conditions, bad design. That boss that you beat on your 4th try, I beat on my third. I still hated it because it was overly long and took way too long to progress through after you die, and they tacked it on after I had accomplished a crappy minecart part and the last thing I wanted to do was MORE minecart. It's just bad game design.

Edit: Sorry I called your statement stupid. I do think everyone's impressions are interesting to read, including yours.
 
Ugh why is there not an option to disable the camera auto centering. It's such a simple fix for the awful camera.
 
Hmmm, maybe it's taken more than one Pagie from me on the Cashino level?

I have 19 at the moment, can't get one for sure so thats 20 down. I have the 2nd Rextro, Kartos and Boss to do so thats up to 23. I have two more unaccounted for... I've checked some videos and can't see anything I am missing..
 
Lynd7 said:
Hmmm, maybe it's taken more than one Pagie from me on the Cashino level?

I have 19 at the moment, can't get one for sure so thats 20 down. I have the 2nd Rextro, Kartos and Boss to do so thats up to 23. I have two more unaccounted for... I've checked some videos and can't see anything I am missing..
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Quills and ghost writers?
 
I'm missing one pagie in the casino, too. Wonder where it is - or the coins for that matter...

But I made some good progress:

- beat the slide outside of world 5
- Collected every quill in the game
- collected every ghostwriter
- Completed world 1-3, missing only one page in 4 and 5.

The last regular page is beating Rextros high score in that fucking flappy bird game in world 5...I just can't do it right now.

Then there are 5 pages in the hubworld left and I've got no clue :D
 
Is this "slide" people keep mentioning the one with the little force fields that move left/right and spin around? Took me 2 tries...

That can't be what people were complaining about

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Salty Hippo said:
The slider challenge outside of world 5 represents everything that is wrong with Yooka-Laylee. Everything. Jesus fucking christ. This is a bad video game, guys.
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Alcotholic said:
I'm on it right now. There is no amount of forgiveness on it. The challenge is dumb and hard and unforgiving.
Edit: I beat it am not happy it was so hard. Many of the tasks or mini games in yooka Layla are too hard for no reason.
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Salty Hippo said:
It's because we're bad at the game mang. It's not because the timer is ridiculously tight requiring a near perfect run. It's not because the obstacles are badly designed. It's not because the sliding mechanics suck ass. It's not because the pattern is inconsistent which eliminates most of the possibility for memorizing and learning from them. It's not because you can't manually restart if you hit a wall once and ruin your run. It's not because the game doesn't refill your health after the times goes zero and you can go back to the beggining with 1 butterfly left and no possibility to recover because you already ate the butterflies that were around so you might as well kill yourself first.

It's a masterclass in game design. You just have to git gud.
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I mean lol.
 
-MD- said:
I had at least 3 seconds left on my 2nd run and got hit twice I believe. So you can make like 3 mistakes and still do it, seems pretty fair to me.
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I got hit once and missed by 1 second.

There's no reason to even have a timer. It feels like a mix of three separate challenges poorly merged into one.

- A timer
- Obstacles
- Going through rings

In Banjo Kazooie, the slide would have had only one of those challenges (probably the obstacles).
 
balladofwindfishes said:
I got hit once and missed by 1 second.

There's no reason to even have a timer. It feels like a mix of three separate challenges poorly merged into one.

- A timer
- Obstacles
- Going through rings

In Banjo Kazooie, the slide would have had only one of those challenges (probably the obstacles).
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Without the timer you'd just be handed a reward for sliding down a ramp.
 
People must not be speeding up/slowing down properly on this slide cause I just did it again.

Stalwart said:
So how's everybody liking it? Just finished Persona 5 so I'll be starting this up soon. Seems a lot of people aren't fans of the level design which is a shame.
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I like it enough that it pulled me away from Persona for a week.
 
Stalwart said:
So how's everybody liking it? Just finished Persona 5 so I'll be starting this up soon. Seems a lot of people aren't fans of the level design which is a shame.
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I think it's quite good but very flawed.


They should have probably had a more expansive beta (like maybe all of unexpanded World 1? Then they would have been able to change the camera at the least) and polish it more. And I can't help but note some of the worst DK64 traits creeping in with numerous buggy and poorly made minigames that you need to do to advance. Also shooting and controlling projectiles is absolutely unfun and they could have just copied Kazooie's way of doing it.

Besides all that I think it's pretty good and any Banjo fan will probably love it. The controls sans camera are good, I like the move set so far (im only on World 3 though) and some of the challenges are clever and engaging. But not all of them. I do wish there was more (or any?) interworld connectivity like in Tooie though. That one is actually my favorite by far of the Rare platformer line up.
 
Louis Cyphre said:
I have no patience for games like this where you can't fast forward conversations. That whole intro of over 5 minutes and not being able to skip all those annoying sounds was almost unbearable. Visually the game looks pretty good but a little too childish overall. Refunded my money.
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How can a visual design look childish? And what person who is an actual adult cares? You can't wait more than 5 minutes to actually play the game? Don't ever play Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword then.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
I got hit once and missed by 1 second.

There's no reason to even have a timer. It feels like a mix of three separate challenges poorly merged into one.

- A timer
- Obstacles
- Going through rings

In Banjo Kazooie, the slide would have had only one of those challenges (probably the obstacles).
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The rings barely factor into the equation since you can't miss them anyway, and the timer is there to keep it from being a pointless exercise in dodging some easily avoided obstacles. Once you have speed to think about it actually becomes a challenge. The way people talk about this slide you'd think it was Clinger Winger 2.0 or something.

Also, Banjo-Kazooie was no stranger to combing two of those elements into one challenge, such as the timed rings in Clanker's Cavern or the Rusty Bucket Bay engine room jiggy.
 
-MD- said:
Is this "slide" people keep mentioning the one with the little force fields that move left/right and spin around? Took me 2 tries...

That can't be what people were complaining about.
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It took me more than a few tries, but I too dont understand whats so bad about it aside from the course having elements that arent in sync with each run.

Its a late game challenge, like Luigis Purple Coins or something. Its going to be tough.
 
Camjo-Z said:
Also, Banjo-Kazooie was no stranger to combing two of those elements into one challenge, such as the timed rings in Clanker's Cavern or the Rusty Bucket Bay engine room jiggy.
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People tend not to remember Clanker's Cavern or Rusty Bucket Bay as the best levels in Banjo Kazooie for a reason.

There would be nothing wrong with the Pagie if the only obstacle was avoiding the obstacles.

A better example of a timed/ring challenge would be Boggy's races, since those were actually fun. But those are structured as a race within a stage, with a clear theme and a goal in mind, and the timer was strict (on the second race) but fair enough that you could do it without wanting to break the cartridge in half.
 
balladofwindfishes said:
People tend not to remember Clanker's Cavern or Rusty Bucket Bay as the best levels in Banjo Kazooie for a reason.

There would be nothing wrong with the Pagie if the only obstacle was avoiding the obstacles.
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There'd be "nothing wrong" with it because it would be easy, require no skill, and make you feel like you accomplished something even though you didn't. Keep that stuff in Mario where it belongs please, the day I die a few times and see an invincibility powerup appear in a Playtonic game is the day I know the '90s collectathon design ethos is truly dead.

And again, only 100 of 145 Pagies are required for completion. That's a compromise done entirely for the people who don't like hard challenges. Let's not forget that Banjo-Kazooie requires a full 94 out of 100 Jiggies to reach Grunty, and if you're not amazing at the game you'll surely need an extra 4 Jiggies on top of that for the double health upgrade.
 
Camjo-Z said:
There'd be "nothing wrong" with it because it would be easy, require no skill, and make you feel like you accomplished something even though you didn't. Keep that stuff in Mario where it belongs please, the day I die a few times and see an invincibility powerup appear in a Playtonic game is the day I know the '90s collectathon design ethos is truly dead.
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1. There are invincibility powerups in many of the arcade minigames, lol.

2. The Banjo games had an invincibility move.

3. No need to hate on Mario.

Also, that slide is fine. It's a challenge. The person complaining about it doesn't have much credibility after trying it only four times and then calling it trash. (Wow, four whole attempts!)
 
Camjo-Z said:
There'd be "nothing wrong" with it because it would be easy, require no skill, and make you feel like you accomplished something even though you didn't. Keep that stuff in Mario where it belongs please, the day I die a few times and see an invincibility powerup appear in a Playtonic game is the day I know the '90s collectathon design ethos is truly dead.
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Because Banjo totally didn't have jiggies that included such things as "casually climb to the top of this mountain (or just wait for the flying power then skip everything)" "ground pound this thing, once" "duck, hold R, and walk straight" or "walk up a small hill"

The challenge would be maneuvering around the electric gates without dying. That's all there would need to be. If that's too easy for you, then good I guess. I actually died to hitting the gates the first time I did it because I didn't know I could control my speed on a ramp.

I'm just imagining Yooka-Laylee's version of dropping eggs into the grave vases. It'd probably be timed. With a specific order. And they wouldn't tell you the order. The top of the mountain in Treasure Cove Trove would probably have some tedious minigame to get the jiggy. Every stage would have a Canary Mary race.
 
Glasshole said:
Friend of mine ragequit during the W4 boss fight, and needed 50 minutes on the Kartos sequence. He also complained about the 'almost impossible to beat' Rextro highscore in W4.

Long story short, I managed the Kartos ride on second try, and W4 boss on fourth. I beat the highscore (only found out later ofc) in my first W4 Rextro run and scored an even higher score for the pagie.

I don't consider myself a good 'gamer'. This is not a stealth brag. I just cannot fathom how anyone could deem these sequences too hard.

Just goes to show that you shouldn't blindly trust other people's 'reviews' or opinions.
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I platinumed the game, but that Kratos double-dose of non-fun in W4 took me an entire 1hr+ podcast to complete both sections. Granted, I did try to brute force my jumps most of that time(especially phase 1 of the boss), trying to perfectly nail the timing for speed that left me with little to no HP for the other phases. Once I started using my cannon more on the barrels, it was done stupid fast. That was kind of my fault though for trying perfect the jumps(which largely isn't possible for some sequences).
 
Pineconn said:
1. There are invincibility powerups in many of the arcade minigames, lol.

2. The Banjo games had an invincibility move.

3. No need to hate on Mario.
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A seconds-long powerup in a minigame isn't really what I was talking about, and Banjo's invincibility was tied to an limited resource that didn't automatically replenish when you died. Not at all comparable to a free powerup that lasts the entire level like in recent Mario games (which I enjoy, but have clearly catered more and more to casual players since NSMB in 2006.)

balladofwindfishes said:
Because Banjo totally didn't have jiggies that included such things as "casually climb to the top of this mountain (or just wait for the flying power then skip everything)" "ground pound this thing, once" "duck, hold R, and walk straight" or "walk up a small hill"

The challenge would be maneuvering around the electric gates without dying. That's all there would need to be. If that's too easy for you, then good I guess. I actually died to hitting the gates the first time I did it because I didn't know I could control my speed on a ramp.

I'm just imagining Yooka-Laylee's version of dropping eggs into the grave vases. It'd probably be timed. With a specific order. And they wouldn't tell you the order. The top of the mountain in Treasure Cove Trove would probably have some tedious minigame to get the jiggy. Every stage would have a Canary Mary race.
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I'm not going to pretend these games are toughs as nails or anything but they aren't afraid to have parts where they take the training wheels off, and that's not bad design just because it's hard.
 
The game being hard or challenging isn't bad game design. The game being unfair is bad game design and even though I find the difficulty on some of the pagies tuned up too high I wouldn't say they were unfair with exception of a few things.
 
jmartoine said:
The game being hard or challenging isn't bad game design. The game being unfair is bad game design and even though I find the difficulty on some of the pagies tuned up too high I wouldn't say they were unfair with exception of a few things.
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Exactly, i never felt like anything was unfair, per se. But there are situations where I feel there is extra difficulty for the sake of it, like having no checkpoints in the dark gem cave or requiring precision platforming with the plough. It's fine to be challenging but I am not down with having to redo entire sections because of one failure not able to be practiced. That's just busy work.
 
I expected to enjoy YL less the more I played it, but the opposite has been true. I enjoyed it initially, but it has really grown on me. I love the increased emphasis on platforming compared to Banjo-Kazooie.
 
bridegur said:
I expected to enjoy YL less the more I played it, but the opposite has been true. I enjoyed it initially, but it has really grown on me. I love the increased emphasis on platforming compared to Banjo-Kazooie.
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im still chewing on my thoughts on the game after completing it last night, but this sums up my overall experience with it. i was initially not super hot on the game, and I was thinking that might have to do with not being that hot on the banjo games to begin with. From world 3 onward when they start having more platforming sections in the levels instead of just a few, and you have more of the moves it started to really gel with me.

Even the stuff in this game I didnt enjoy (like the rextro minigames) more often than not my main criticism is they're just drawn out for far too long. if every rextro minigame only had to be played once and they were half the length (3 laps for the racing one instead of 5, 1 minute for the two timed ones instead of 2 etc) they still wouldnt be great but they wouldnt negatively stand out as much to me.
 
So I got all the ghosts in the first world and... are they supposed to drop a pagie? Because they didn't. :/ Maybe it just counted directly and I didn't notice?
 
I know that there are a few video guides available, but has anyone found any *text* guides/checklists for quills - even as work-in-progress? I've not found any yet myself, but these would be ideal to help with hunting down those last few in each world.
 
illusionary said:
I know that there are a few video guides available, but has anyone found any *text* guides/checklists for quills - even as work-in-progress? I've not found any yet myself, but these would be ideal to help with hunting down those last few in each world.
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Just use the Hunter tonic, they'll whistle at you when you're down to 10 or fewer.
 
Two Pikachus said:
Just use the Hunter tonic, they'll whistle at you when you're down to 10 or fewer.
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Yeah, I know, and am doing, but a checklist would still be helpful. I realise that it's likely too early for full lists just yet, but you never know! I'm down to 15 quills missing in world 1, though some of those will probably become obvious once I have the skills/moves to get the last couple of pagies.
 
Velocity:Design:Comfort said:
How can a visual design look childish? And what person who is an actual adult cares? You can't wait more than 5 minutes to actually play the game? Don't ever play Twilight Princess or Skyward Sword then.
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I liked Banjoo Kazooie and Viva Pinata but this was just silly and annoying at the same time with how the conversations are. As for those Zelda games you proved my point, why do they continue to make games where you have to sit there and watch the screen and listen to the annoying dialogue back and forth with no option to skip them? Don't tell it takes the game over 5 minutes to load.

I will sit patiently for some games like Zelda because they are very good titles, this one didn't appear to be even with my limited time with it. Oddly enough reviews aren't exactly raving about it either but don't let my views spoil anything, I'm just saying it's not for me.
 
Okay, I've put about 16 hours into the game so far. I am currently collecting and going for 100% before hitting up the final boss. I'm 2/3 of the way there and I gotta say, it's really good. Frame-rate issues, a wonky camera, and weird little bugs and issues are present for sure, but the overall quality of the game far outshines the bad. The Casino level was so ridiculously barren, I was afraid I'd call it quits, but after taking a break and going back to Tribalstack Tropics and expanding it, it felt fresh again and I couldn't be happier. I'm looking forward to 100%ing it and coming back in a year to relive it. I hope they continue with a sequel, if it is in the plans.
 
THEBONDIGTY said:
Me too. Despite the technical issues I think they delivered on their promise of a spiritual Banjo sucessor!
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Agreed completely. its exactly what they said they wanted to do. It certainly has some issues but I for one miss these types of games and it's scratching an itch I haven't felt since ~ 2000.
 
So I spent a solid hour trying to collect the Witch Hat in World 2 for the snowman. I drove all the way through the crystal caves, up the slide, and through the freezing ice caves. That was hard as fuck, because whenever I pushed down on the stick (you know, to REVERSE) Yooka would TURN and not just regularly back up. It made jumping on to the platform rage inducing. When I finally collected the hat, I realised I forgot about the god damn door beside Puzz that takes you to the top area.

Feel like an idiot, but that sense of accomplishment (however short) was awesome.
 
Mildly enjoying this so far but every inch of it leaves me wanting to see what it'd be with a bit more polish, budget and technical wizardry. This game desperately needs toggles for the auto centering camera and voices. Its not that they're bad but the audio mix makes them seem really loud and nasally. I feel like they should be lower pitch and less repetitive. That might have been a way to compromise between nostalgia and modern design.

I want to like this game more than I do but I'm glad it exists. If anything, I think a Yooka Laylee 2 could really be something special once they find their groove.
 
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