The final Tonight Show with Jay Leno

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Hadoken said:
I read the book and I don't remember Conan telling NBC to fire Leno. NBC made the deal with Leno to give him a show at 11:35pm first. Leno agreed with a handshake without even calling Conan to talk about it. That sounds like it's set in stone. And I don't recall Conan "hearing" about this new time slot. He was told by NBC after they made the deal with Leno. Conan's contract didn't include a time slot. NBC can put his show at anytime.
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Conan had his publicist draft his "proclamation" speech, which was essentially telling NBC it was either him or me.
Also a handshake agreement with Leno was not set in stone. It easily could have been changed if they thought the idea wasn't a good idea.

None of this ugliness would have happened if Conan went to Leno in the first place instead of dealing behind his back.
Leno seemed sad to leave last night, but he & Fallon discussed it & both were in agreement before NBC announced it.

Leno last Tonight Show before this didn't have him crying & pouring his soul out because he knew he wasn't ready to leave & would be back.
 
ShabbadooJr said:
So he pulled a Leno? There was bad blood in 1992, bad blood in 2009, and possible bad blood now. Who is the only constant? Leno.
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Err, no the constant is NBC. They have a shitty way of doing business.

Look at how they handled Katie Couric.
Look at how they handled Ann Curry.
Look at how they handled Scrubs
Look at how they handled Community (and begrudgingly decided to renew it)
Look at how they handled all of the major celebrities who got their rise to fame on the network.

They over promise and then have no problem telling you that you're shit out of luck. Why do you think their ratings are in the gutter? No one wants to pitch a decent show to them anymore because they're scared NBC will run it into the trash.
 
Everyone in town knew that when that 'four year plan' was announced, Conan was effectively telling everyone the Tonight Show was his. Bottom line. It was a power grab, and anyone who thinks otherwise is out of touch.

Conan didn't have to do that. He didn't have to agree to it. And even after it was announced, he still didn't have to go along with it. Conan was the one benefiting from that crazy plan, not Leno -- so Conan should be the one to accept blame for how it all went down.

It was an insane thing to agree to, and guess what? It led to an insane outcome. It doesn't matter if it was execs, Zucker, his management, anyone. If Conan didn't like the idea, he didn't have to go along with it.

Then he plays the victim when it all goes south? Give me a fucking break.
 
AlphaSnake said:
Why does Leno have to ask for Conan's permission? Conan still had the Tonight Show name. Who in God's name could've thought Conan would be so pissy about a 30 minute difference? Even if the 30 minute lead-in with Leno didn't work out, Conan went on a crazy tirade instead of trying to ride the wave. It's show business, shit happens. Ride it out and if things are still bad, the company will make another move and hopefully fix it. But instead, he chose to quit.

It's also not Leno's company and it's not his job to ask for Conan's permission or calling him to break the news or ask him if it's okay. NBC were his employer, it's that fucking simple. They break the news, not Leno.

Leno couldn't breach his contract and leave NBC just as much as NBC couldn't afford letting him leave. Why do people fail to realize this? Leno had NO control or power over what was going on.
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Simply put? Conan cared more about the Tonight Show than he cared about himself. Leno cared more about himself than he did anything else. In fact, Leno cares about exactly one person - Jay Leno. I hope he suffocates on his own cock because I know if he could swallow it he would.
 
AlphaSnake said:
Why does Leno have to ask for Conan's permission? Conan still had the Tonight Show name. Who in God's name could've thought Conan would be so pissy about a 30 minute difference? Even if the 30 minute lead-in with Leno didn't work out, Conan went on a crazy tirade instead of trying to ride the wave. It's show business, shit happens. Ride it out and if things are still bad, the company will make another move and hopefully fix it. But instead, he chose to quit.

It's also not Leno's company and it's not his job to ask for Conan's permission or calling him to break the news or ask him if it's okay. NBC were his employer, it's that fucking simple. They break the news, not Leno.

Leno couldn't breach his contract and leave NBC just as much as NBC couldn't afford letting him leave. Why do people fail to realize this? Leno had NO control or power over what was going on.
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That half hour difference makes the "Tonight Show" into the "Tomorrow Show."
 
Leno tried to pull the same "it wasn't me!" shtick when his management team helped him screw Carson and Letterman.

I'm surprised people still buy into it.
 
Seth C said:
Simply put? Conan cared more about the Tonight Show than he cared about himself. Leno cared more about himself than he did anything else. In fact, Leno cares about exactly one person - Jay Leno. I hope he suffocates on his own cock because I know if he could swallow it he would.
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LMAO. This logic and reasoning is beyond stupid.

You sound like a five year old that needs to give it a rest. Conan screwed Conan and acted like a whiny brat about it for weeks on end, and even to this day. He wanted the Tonight Show so badly that he strong-armed NBC execs to give it to him.

And this is coming from someone who subscribes to and spends way too much time watching TeamCoco vids on YouTube every other day.
 
I just wish Conan's show was nearly as funny as he used to be on Late Night. I have no idea where Andy Richter came from and who thought it was a good idea to have him play such a large role in his show now.
 
Seth C said:
Simply put? Conan cared more about the Tonight Show than he cared about himself. Leno cared more about himself than he did anything else. In fact, Leno cares about exactly one person - Jay Leno. I hope he suffocates on his own cock because I know if he could swallow it he would.
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Leno only cares for himself & his cars... and the ton of charities he constantly gives to & the homeless he worked with & the countless actors, comedians & employees he gave a break to.
 
Draconian said:
I just wish Conan's show was nearly as funny as he used to be on Late Night. I have no idea where Andy Richter came from and who thought it was a good idea to have him play such a large role in his show now.
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Is this a joke? You do know Andy Richter was part of Conans show for years on late night, right?
 
See You Next Wednesday said:
Leno only cares for himself & his cars... and the ton of charities he constantly gives to & the homeless he worked with & the countless actors, comedians & employees he gave a break to.
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Lol forreal. I think Lenos got lame humor but he's helped a lot of ppl too

Sure he was a snake in the late night game but that's what made him get the show and make so much money too.

Conans show sucks ass now btw. He was great when he was on late night

Boo hoo poor Conan. Anybody playing the victim card during that, be it either Leno or Conan deserved no sympathy. I wish a comedian says that on Conans show as bluntly as possible
 
I like how things like research and facts from "The Late Night Wars" that Leno himself doesn't dispute are completely ignored by the crowd that can't get off of Jay's junk.
 
Seth C said:
Simply put? Conan cared more about the Tonight Show than he cared about himself. Leno cared more about himself than he did anything else. In fact, Leno cares about exactly one person - Jay Leno. I hope he suffocates on his own cock because I know if he could swallow it he would.
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wut
 
Draconian said:
Yeah, but I have no idea why he came back. He's just not that funny to me. I get that he's good friends with Conan, but meh.
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I don't understand Andy's purpose, either, to be honest. He really doesn't do much of anything on the show. He's almost never involved in any of the remote sketches. He does some of the buddy-role segments that require two people (a'la In The Year 2000)...but that's about it.
 
CartridgeBlower said:
Everyone in town knew that when that 'four year plan' was announced, Conan was effectively telling everyone the Tonight Show was his. Bottom line. It was a power grab, and anyone who thinks otherwise is out of touch.

Conan didn't have to do that. He didn't have to agree to it. And even after it was announced, he still didn't have to go along with it. Conan was the one benefiting from that crazy plan, not Leno -- so Conan should be the one to accept blame for how it all went down.

It was an insane thing to agree to, and guess what? It led to an insane outcome. It doesn't matter if it was execs, Zucker, his management, anyone. If Conan didn't like the idea, he didn't have to go along with it.

Then he plays the victim when it all goes south? Give me a fucking break.
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Why do you think Conan did the contract the way he did it? It was because of the way Leno took The Tonight Show in the first place. Do you think Carson was benefiting when Leno took over? Why the fuck would the guy being forced out ever benefit?

Don't you think it's smart to plan your future and make sure that it pans out the way you expect it? I don't think Conan had a choice in how he handled it honestly. Where he screwed up is not having a strong contract for his tenure as The Tonight Show Host.

Conan isn't innocent in how things went down, but Leno does deserve some of the blame. If he actually accepted that his time was done as host (like Carson did) none of this would have happened.

NBC deserves blame as well, you should really make sure your talent properly communicates and that they are comfortable with how things progress, but the head of the company was different during each of the past 3 Tonight Show changeovers. I wouldn't really call them constant and the main reason why things went sour. Leno is the only true constant here. And we know for a fact he is quite the snake when it comes to these negotiations. He also seems really passive as well. Like how do you let NBC push you out? Your show is number 1. Lock that shit up. I don't understand the guy.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
Late Night was way better post-Andy. Conan reached his prime when Andy left. Joel and Max were much better 2nd bananas.
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Fully agree with this — I liked Andy a lot on Late Night, but the new show just seems to have too much of him. It actually turns me off of the show a bit.
 
After watching the Seinfeld compilation on Comedians getting coffee, it's pretty obvious that Dave seems to be siding with Leno now (both in this current situation, and during the Conan thing), and he really likes Jay.
 
SoulPlaya said:
After watching the Seinfeld compilation on Comedians getting coffee, it's pretty obvious that Dave seems to be siding with Leno now (both in this current situation, and during the Conan thing), and he really likes Jay.
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Yep.
 
http://www.eonline.com/news/508460/...-show-ratings-the-biggest-audience-since-1998

Jay Leno's last Tonight Show was one for the ratings record books. The host's last episode brought in 14.6 million viewers, the show's biggest audience since the night Seinfeld ended in May 1998.

Leno's farewell is the fourth biggest Tonight Show with Jay Leno telecast, only bested by the episode following the Cheers finale (May 1993, 22.4 million viewers), Leno's debut (May 1992, 16.1 million viewers) and the aforementioned post-Seinfeld finale episode (15 million viewers).
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Anyone have number on Conan's Tonight Show final & Leno's first Tonight Show final?
 
AlphaSnake said:
Why does Leno have to ask for Conan's permission? Conan still had the Tonight Show name. Who in God's name could've thought Conan would be so pissy about a 30 minute difference?
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Conan cared more about the history of The Tonight Show than Leno did. Conan didn't want the show to start past midnight since then it wouldn't be "Tonight" -- it would have went against the show's own name.

The heads at NBC at the time were the main ones to blame for the mess. They agreed to the horrible "The Jay Leno Show" during prime time which caused many NBC shows to move their airing time. Some shows even got canned since some had to move to the "death slot" which is considered as prime time on a Friday night -- a night in which most people go out of the house. This is on top of many local NBC news stations complaining about how their ratings were down since The Jay Leno show was their lead-in. And since NBC local news ratings went down, so did The Tonight Show with Conan's ratings. The prime time Jay Leno show created a domino effect.

So I blame NBC but I also blame Leno due to his (horrible) short live prime time show that caused so many other shows to be impacted negatively, as well as him being on TV acting all nice to Conan and calling him "a good friend" when passing the torch to him when he obviously thought differently.
 
Just saw Leno's last show. Watching him tear up while talking about his parents and brother's deaths in the first years of the show was tough.
 
I always liked Leno. Hopefully a retirement for the late night talk show business means that he works on making a show on cars. Something on the Discovery Channel or History would be great.
 
SomewhatGroovy said:
There is no way to quantify that. You have filled the gap between the lines with your own interpretation. You also seem to take that event very personally.

The reality is, again, that Jay Leno contributed more to the industry than Conan can ever hope to. It is documented who Jay has helped put a career together for. He sacrificed his normal comedy routines, comedy he is respected for even by his rivals, to put a platform for people who come to his show. His agenda has always been people in the industry.

In the past two weeks alone, some huge household names have come on and gave emotional testimony to his generosity so attacking him is attacking their integrity.

And ultimately, Jay doesn't run nbc. It boggles me how many people forget this. If the reverse were true, he would still be working at nbc.
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I guess we are ignoring how Jay never let comedians on TTS or had a guest host. (Two things Carson did to help young comics)

Though Jay was Johhny's guest host and he ended up stealing his show so maybe Jay was afraid of the karma police...
 
Ryck said:
I guess we are ignoring how Jay never let comedians on TTS or had a guest host. (Two things Carson did to help young comics)

Though Jay was Johhny's guest host and he ended up stealing his show so maybe Jay was afraid of the karma police...
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This is a bold face lie. Terribly too.
 
Ryck said:
I stand corrected, I remember that being a thing comics were pissed about guess he changed it up in his later years? (Still never had a guest host though)
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I don't think this was ever true. Any proof here? (Not the guest host thing, the comedians thing)

BTW, when have other late night talk show hosts had on guest hosts? Dave only had ones during serious medical issues. There are contracts in place for these things. I don't think Jay could just have a guest host for no reason. He has to have a valid reason. Otherwise, he may be liable under his contract with NBC.
 
Ryck said:
I stand corrected, I remember that being a thing comics were pissed about guess he changed it up in his later years? (Still never had a guest host though)
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Dude...what the...I remember as early as the 1990s he had comedians on the show. You're confused with someone else. I would watch NBA on NBC playoff games, and after games watch Leno, and he would have all sorts of different comedians.
 
Ryck said:
I stand corrected, I remember that being a thing comics were pissed about guess he changed it up in his later years? (Still never had a guest host though)
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So what? It's not as if Letterman, Conan, Kimmel, et al. regularly - or ever - have guest hosts for the sake of guest hosts, and Leno's too much of a workaholic for there to be any need for a guest host anyway.
 
Steve Allen had guest hosts because he also did a Sunday night show and eventually it became his primary concern so he started taking Monday and Tuesday off. I don't recall if Jack Paar ever regularly had guest hosts. Carson used guest hosts as a way to work less and take more vacations. Leno never had a problem doing 5 nights a week, standup on the weekend, and he never took vacations so he didn't have the need for guest hosts.

The point of the guest host was never to give anyone exposure. Generally they were already fairly well known. People like Judy Garland and Frank Sanatra did it. Even Jay was a successful comedian with regular TV exposure (on Letterman no less) by the time he became guest host.
 
That Leno has friends in the business that he didn't stab in the back isn't really that much of a defense. Ok, he's not Jeffrey Dahmer, but he's still kind of scummy. Good night, sweet chin.
 
Why don't we ever see Leno's apparent top tier stuff--his Vegas stuff--that people talk about that he's been doing for years and racking in cash with?
 
Ninja Scooter said:
It sounds crazy to anyone because he irrationally put it on this pedestal where it no longer belonged. Nobody who remembers Carson's hey day watches Conan and his core audience knows the Tonight Show as the unfunny show Jay Leno hosts.
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Calling Conan's passion for the Tonight Show "crazy" or "irrational" is like calling Leno's passion for cars crazy and irrational. Different things have different meaning to different people.


Conan's contract was up and he should have been paid double. If NBC won't pay him what he's worth, then why should he stay? The Tonight Show is why. If Conan stays and works for peanuts, then he can have the Tonight Show once Leno's done with it. Conan wants to get that in writing specifically because of what happened to Letterman. Conan didn't force Leno out, he just wanted to have a date stamped on it. If Leno had said he needed five more years (NBC didn't ask him), I'm sure Conan would have waited, because he really wanted the Tonight Show, but he would have demanded more money if he had to wait longer.

Conan's Tonight Show ratings were down, but it was never about Conan's ratings. Leno's primetime show was the one that got canned because of an affiliate revolt, and Leno had a massive payday coming because of it. NBC asked him what it would take to get him to give up that payday, and he asked for his old job back, knowing that meant he was asking for Conan's head. NBC proposed a "compromise" of just pushing Conan back halfway, but it basically amounts to the same thing.

Conan asked for the Tonight Show, and he paid his dues to get it, but what he got was nothing more than a brass nameplate. A useless relic, worth about as much as his antique microphone. It would cheapen the Tonight Show for Conan to accept that, so he walked away. Some people say that's crazy, but what's he working for if the one thing he cares about is a lie? Money isn't everything. People who say "He turned down Tonight Show money and got a big payoff, so what's he bitching about? He won" are the sort of people who look at money the same way that Leno looks at a steam engine and Conan looks at Charlie Chaplin.
 
Cheerilee said:
Calling Conan's passion for the Tonight Show "crazy" or "irrational" is like calling Leno's passion for cars crazy and irrational. Different things have different meaning to different people.


Conan's contract was up and he should have been paid double. If NBC won't pay him what he's worth, then why should he stay? The Tonight Show is why. If Conan stays and works for peanuts, then he can have the Tonight Show once Leno's done with it. Conan wants to get that in writing specifically because of what happened to Letterman. Conan didn't force Leno out, he just wanted to have a date stamped on it. If Leno had said he needed five more years (NBC didn't ask him), I'm sure Conan would have waited, because he really wanted the Tonight Show, but he would have demanded more money if he had to wait longer.

Conan's Tonight Show ratings were down, but it was never about Conan's ratings. Leno's primetime show was the one that got canned because of an affiliate revolt, and Leno had a massive payday coming because of it. NBC asked him what it would take to get him to give up that payday, and he asked for his old job back, knowing that meant he was asking for Conan's head. NBC proposed a "compromise" of just pushing Conan back halfway, but it basically amounts to the same thing.

Conan asked for the Tonight Show, and he paid his dues to get it, but what he got was nothing more than a brass nameplate. A useless relic, worth about as much as his antique microphone. It would cheapen the Tonight Show for Conan to accept that, so he walked away. Some people say that's crazy, but what's he working for if the one thing he cares about is a lie? Money isn't everything. People who say "He turned down Tonight Show money and got a big payoff, so what's he bitching about? He won" are the sort of people who look at money the same way that Leno looks at a steam engine and Conan looks at Charlie Chaplin.
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Leno never asked for his old job back. He left the ball entirely in NBC's court.
 
Cheerilee said:
Calling Conan's passion for the Tonight Show "crazy" or "irrational" is like calling Leno's passion for cars crazy and irrational. Different things have different meaning to different people.


Conan's contract was up and he should have been paid double. If NBC won't pay him what he's worth, then why should he stay? The Tonight Show is why. If Conan stays and works for peanuts, then he can have the Tonight Show once Leno's done with it. Conan wants to get that in writing specifically because of what happened to Letterman. Conan didn't force Leno out, he just wanted to have a date stamped on it. If Leno had said he needed five more years (NBC didn't ask him), I'm sure Conan would have waited, because he really wanted the Tonight Show, but he would have demanded more money if he had to wait longer.

Conan's Tonight Show ratings were down, but it was never about Conan's ratings. Leno's primetime show was the one that got canned because of an affiliate revolt, and Leno had a massive payday coming because of it. NBC asked him what it would take to get him to give up that payday, and he asked for his old job back, knowing that meant he was asking for Conan's head. NBC proposed a "compromise" of just pushing Conan back halfway, but it basically amounts to the same thing.

Conan asked for the Tonight Show, and he paid his dues to get it, but what he got was nothing more than a brass nameplate. A useless relic, worth about as much as his antique microphone. It would cheapen the Tonight Show for Conan to accept that, so he walked away. Some people say that's crazy, but what's he working for if the one thing he cares about is a lie? Money isn't everything. People who say "He turned down Tonight Show money and got a big payoff, so what's he bitching about? He won" are the sort of people who look at money the same way that Leno looks at a steam engine and Conan looks at Charlie Chaplin.
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Great post, I've tried articulating this before but couldn't manage it as well
 
AlphaSnake said:
Leno never asked for his old job back. He left the ball entirely in NBC's court.
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Leno's primetime show was not supposed to be cancelled. He had NBC's word that it wouldn't be, and it said so in Leno's contract. But it was. And he was owed $150 million because of it.

Leno agreed to forfeit $150 million if they gave him Conan's job. It doesn't really matter if it was Leno's idea or if it was just NBC knowing exactly what Leno wanted. Leno agreed to it.
 
It's almost like folks aren't entirely villains, or entirely saints, they're a mottled admixture of vanity, striving, grace and benevolence in different proportions. In this case I don't think it's hard to believe that Leno was intensely obsessed with being on The Tonight Show in a way that *to almost everyone* appears intensely mercenary and calculated. Conan's affection for the show seemed much more, well, sentimental, and reverent. Neither is some naif, of course, and the "personality" that is most opaque is really NBC's executive board and how they "negotiated" this clusterfuck.

Oh well, at least they managed to get the EPL on TV without commercials, that's nice.
 
Cheerilee said:
Leno's primetime show was not supposed to be cancelled. He had NBC's word that it wouldn't be, and it said so in Leno's contract. But it was. And he was owed $150 million because of it.

Leno agreed to forfeit $150 million if they gave him Conan's job. It doesn't really matter if it was Leno's idea or if it was just NBC knowing exactly what Leno wanted. Leno agreed to it.
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Conan left first. NBC decided to put Leno at 11:30 (because, like you said, it would be too costly to just cancel him) and Conan's Tonight Show at 12:00 and Conan refused. Conan and NBC then agreed on a buyout and with Conan out of the fold, NBC put Leno back in the Tonight Show.
 
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