Rebellion: Xbox One's eSRAM culprit behind sub-1080p; will catch up to PS4

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shinobi602

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Rebellion develops the Sniper games.
Bolcato stated that, “It was clearly a bit more complicated to extract the maximum power from the Xbox One when you’re trying to do that. I think eSRAM is easy to use. The only problem is…Part of the problem is that it’s just a little bit too small to output 1080p within that size. It’s such a small size within there that we can’t do everything in 1080p with that little buffer of super-fast RAM.

“It means you have to do it in chunks or using tricks, tiling it and so on. It’s a bit like the reverse of the PS3. PS3 was harder to program for than the Xbox 360. Now it seems like everything has reversed but it doesn’t mean it’s far less powerful – it’s just a pain in the ass to start with. We are on fine ground now but the first few months were hell.”
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Will the process become easier over time as understanding of the hardware improves? “Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”

The PS4 is thus more of a gaming machine in its core focus. “Yeah, I mean that’s probably why, well at least on paper, it’s a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up. But definitely there’s this eSRAM. PS4 has 8GB and it’s almost as fast as eSRAM [bandwidth wise] but at the same time you can go a little bit further with it, because you don’t have this slower memory. That’s also why you don’t have that many games running in 1080p, because you have to make it smaller, for what you can fit into the eSRAM with the Xbox One.”
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http://gamingbolt.com/xbox-ones-esr...080p-but-will-catch-up-to-ps4-rebellion-games
 
Bomb_shelter_2.jpg
 
Really? No amount of programming can allow the Xbox One hardware to run as well as the PS4 hardware. Why do they even bother? Do they think we're stupid?
 
In order to accommodate the eSRAM on die Microsoft not only had to move to a 12 CU GPU configuration, but it’s also only down to 16 ROPs (half of that of the PS4). The ROPs (render outputs/raster operations pipes) are responsible for final pixel output, and at the resolutions these consoles are targeting having 16 ROPs definitely puts the Xbox One as the odd man out in comparison to PC GPUs. Typically AMD’s GPU targeting 1080p come with 32 ROPs, which is where the PS4 is, but the Xbox One ships with half that. The difference in raw shader performance (12 CUs vs 18 CUs) can definitely creep up in games that run more complex lighting routines and other long shader programs on each pixel, but all of the more recent reports of resolution differences between Xbox One and PS4 games at launch are likely the result of being ROP bound on the One. This is probably why Microsoft claimed it saw a bigger increase in realized performance from increasing the GPU clock from 800MHz to 853MHz vs. adding two extra CUs. The ROPs operate at GPU clock, so an increase in GPU clock in a ROP bound scenario would increase performance more than adding more compute hardware.
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From this anandtech article back in November

Seems to draw the conclusion on the eSRAM link.
 
Doesn't make any sense.

How would a 7770 ever catch up to a 7850?

How would 32MB of eSRAM ever catch up to 8GB GDDR5?
 
And performance difference will remain the same, only now Xbone games will run in 1080p. Framerate and asset/effect details will still remain downgraded.

gruenel said:
Doesn't make any sense.

How would a 7770 ever catch up to a 7850?

How would 32MB of eSRAM ever catch up to 8GB GDDR5?
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It wont. Just look how Forza achieved 1080p60. Same will continue to happen with other Xbone games, assets will have to be downsized.

No ammount of SDK tweaking will speed up weaker Xbone GPU or enable developers to use more than 32MB of fast framebuffer.
 
This was known before the release of the system by anyone that could do the math. They should have put as much sram as possible on the chip.
 
DieH@rd said:
And performance difference will remain the same, only now Xbone games will run in 1080p. Framerate and asset/effect details will still remain downgraded.
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That's what I thought when I read the text. He was talking about resolution all the time, but not about framerate or image quality.
 
What's with this "on paper" bullshit? It is more powerful, end of. Why is it so hard to just admit it?
 
Corleth the Fey said:
Really? No amount of programming can allow the Xbox One hardware to run as well as the PS4 hardware. Why do they even bother? Do they think we're stupid?
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I'd assume that by "catch up" he just means that the gap between the two consoles will gradually become a little smaller as developers acclimate themselves with the best methods of utilising the small eSRAM pool. Naturally, the only thing that can overcome the PS4's raw GPU advantage is, well, better hardware, which isn't going to happen for obvious reasons.
 
if anything, games will get better on both as time goes by. Will be interesting to see what happens 3-4 years down the line.
 
We've known this for months, but... catch up? Really? So MS's tools and dev environment will get better and PS4's will stall?
 
The problem with these reports is that I don't think people disagree that the tools and optimization will make xbox one's game look better. Is that they say this on a vacuum in which PS4 tools will stay the same as they are right now.

Xbox one game will look better with time and so will ps4's. The gap will always be there.
 
But the Xbox One's GPU culprit that need a quite of catch up. Rare happens.

We know that 1080p is higher HDTV standard, but there is the image quality and framerate could make up the difference.
 
Corleth the Fey said:
Really? No amount of programming can allow the Xbox One hardware to run as well as the PS4 hardware. Why do they even bother? Do they think we're stupid?
Click to expand...

Ahah, you assume they say these things for the people in websites like NeoGaf. They say this stupid, nonsensical shit so the casual gamer who doesn't know any better will be fooled.
 
gruenel said:
Doesn't make any sense.

How would a 7770 ever catch up to a 7850?

How would 32MB of eSRAM ever catch up to 8GB GDDR5?
Click to expand...

It wont. Just look how Forza achieved 1080p60. Same will continue to happen with other Xbone games, assets will have to be downsized.

No ammount of SDK tweaking will speed up weaker Xbone GPU or enable developers to use more than 32MB of fast framebuffer.
 
at least rebellion have the balls to say it and are also working on both consoles and looking at weakness etc and working around them. props to rebellion.

nice to see they didnt say but xbone has cloud either they clearly know some shit
 
Doesn't PS4 have GPGPU, unified memory, and other custom features that will widen any 'performance gap' even if devs get a handle on the ESRAM? It seems like Gorilla is talking about getting around ESRAM's size/width bottleneck to 1080p, not necessarily framerate or other GPU performance issues.

Regardless, we've seen with Ryse Xbox is capable of good looking games. Not as good as PS4, but still good looking imo.
 
The most interesting thing about that article is the new SDK, which is probably the 8% of the reserved GPU power that MS are rumoured to be giving access to developers, although I wouldn't call 8% 'much faster.'
 
I like how much he downplays the hardware difference and even manages to throw a little misinformation in there about the PS4 never able to do media right.
 
I hate the disingenuous way some people try to downplay the power difference using the "well, at least on paper" term. Making it sound like the specs are meaningless, and only theoretical.

It is more powerful as a matter of fact, period. Stop insulting people's intelligence.

And what does any of this have to do with the ability to make impressive and fun games anyway? Both next-gen consoles are powerful enough to deliver that, why bother with the power issue when it has already been settled?

Just move on and focus on the fun games.
 
Biggzy said:
The most interesting thing about that article is the new SDK, which is probably the 8% of the reserved GPU power that MS are rumoured to be giving access to developers, although I wouldn't call 8% 'much faster.'
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I read a "much faster SDK "as more efficient in using the Xbox One's power, the access to the 8% gpu reserve can't be the only thing coming in the SDK.
 
travisbickle said:
Sniper Elite 3 not 1080p for xbox1?
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Did you read the article?

In the OP:

“Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”
 
Team Vernia said:
Did you read the article?

In the OP:

“Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”
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This part is disturbing. What is it supposed to be Xone? A virtual intellingence?No need to be obsequious.
 
Kuro said:
I like how much he downplays the hardware difference and even manages to throw a little misinformation in there about the PS4 never able to do media right.
Click to expand...

To be fair, I think Sony probably likes that on some level. It's really something only hardcore gamers are going to read or care about. This is Sony's selling point for the PS4

PS4 is just a games machine.
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Sure, it's not just a games machine, but it's what they want gamers to think of first and foremost when they think of the console.
 
Team Vernia said:
“Definitely, yeah. They are releasing a new SDK that’s much faster and we will be comfortably running at 1080p on Xbox One. We were worried six months ago and we are not anymore, it’s got better and they are quite comparable machines. The Xbox One is a bit more multimedia, a bit more hub-centric so its a bit more complex. There’s stuff you can and can’t do because it’s a sort of multimedia hub. PS4 doesn’t have that. PS4 is just a games machine.”
Click to expand...

Oh uh.. that's why I bought a PS4.
 
FranXico said:
I hate the disingenuous way some people try to downplay the power difference using the "well, at least on paper" term. Making it sound like the specs are meaningless, and only theoretical.

It is more powerful as a matter of fact, period. Stop insulting people's intelligence.

And what does any of this have to do with the ability to make impressive and fun games anyway? Both next-gen consoles are powerful enough to deliver that, why bother with the power issue when it has already been settled?

Just move on and focus on the fun games.
Click to expand...

Why do you automatically assume he's being disingenuous? He's working with both systems and has a lot more information on their inner workings, which is leading him to his conclusion.
 
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