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[GameAddict411]

The hardware is the hardware & everything has a maximum capacity.



WiiU;
CPU - Tri-Core IBM PowerPC "Espresso" @ 1.24 GHz 3 MB L2 cache
GPU - AMD Radeon "Latte" 320 shaders @ 550 MHz (0.35 TFLOP/s) Fillrates: 4.4 Gpixel/s, 8.8 Gtexel/s
RAM - 2 GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz (12.8 GB/s) (1 GB available for games)34 MB eDRAM @ 550 MHz

PS4;
CPU - Octa-Core (2 quad-core modules) AMD x86-64 "Jaguar"-based Shared 4 MB L2 cache (Cores 0-3: 2 MB, Cores 4-7: 2 MB
GPU - AMD Radeon "Liverpool" 1152 shaders @ 800 MHz (1.84 TFLOP/s) Fillrates: 25.6 Gpixel/s, 57.6 Gtexel/s
RAM - 8 GB GDDR5 RAM @ 5500 MHz (176.0 GB/s) 256 MB (2 Gb) DDR3 RAM (for background tasks)

XboxOne;
CPU - Octa-Core (2 quad-core modules) AMD x86-64 "Jaguar"-based @ 1.75 GHz Shared 4 MB L2 cache (Cores 0-3: 2 MB, Cores 4-7: 2 MB)
GPU - AMD Radeon 768 shaders @ 853 MHz (1.31 TFLOP/s) Fillrates: 13.6 Gpixel/s, 40.9 Gtexel/s
RAM - 8 GB DDR3 RAM @ 2133 MHz (68.3 GB/s) (5 GB available for games) 32 MB eSRAM (on-die)

The XboxOne is a 10 but the PS4 is a 11.

The wii-u specs in this post are in-accurate.

 

[Chobel]

I guess the thing is that devs will have a target in terms of performance (framerate and resolution) and the PS4 will reach that target easier. They will then spend their time optimising on Xbox One.

1) He didn't say this.
2) Some games might meet this criteria, but many games won't. Expect in the future that PS4 will struggle run games at 1080p/60fps (30fps), xbone will struggle even harder.

 

[Respawn]

Things like this always make me wonder why 1080p is so important to some people. I would rather have a lot of bells and whistles at 720p than empty 1080p. If you can get both that's wonderful and to be preferred. However, if you can't then just make it pretty... then again I also like retro pixel graphics, so people tend to shoot down my dismissal of 1080p here..

Detail my friend. Especially in a sniper game where you have to look far into the map.

 

[CoG]

I hear Forza 5 quoted often as the poster child of Xbone development. "Look, if you have a developer who knows what they're doing, 1080p/60 is easily achievable". What exactly do you mean by the bolded?

Forza uses a bunch of shortcuts (cheap AA, static lighting, sprites, it goes on). It may work on a racer where everything is blurring by but on a FPS game it will look hideous.

 

[jelly]

I'm still surprised Microsoft got it wrong. Engineers must have been disappointed in the executives for cutting them off at the knees to accommodate the TV philosophy. The inside story of development will be interesting if it ever comes to light. I imagine some people raised concerns from the beginning that it wasn't an ideal design and they should do something else which would probably be the PS4.

 

[PG2G]

Why would a developer use the line 'just for playing games'? Surely he would say something along the lines of 'is optimised for gaming.' That very much looks like a crafty way of making the PS4 look inferior in some way.

Because from a developers perspective it is just for playing games. All of the resources are available to them and they don't have to worry about a bunch of rules about multitasking and what not.

I wouldn't read too much into it.

 

[cyberheater]

But what about ps4 fan who want better graphic?

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

 

[Prelude.]

I wonder when this PR parity bullshit will stop. Kojima, save us.

 

[sechsterangriff]

This is the point Microsoft needs to understand. Stop with the "on paper" and "theoretically" more powerful shit and just make good games. Stop arguing hardware. You lost, get over it.

Seriously, it's a lost battle and it's not something that's going to change. There is no "on paper", the specs are final and hardware is out there and is what it is.
At this point Microsoft's marketing team should be pointing guns at the heads of any of their employees stupid enough to make hardware comparisons at this point. Just say as developers get more comfortable with hardware and tools the games will look better, and stop right there.

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

I seriously doubt that. This time around both platforms share the same architecture with one's specs clearly weaker than the other's. What this means is as games get more resource demanding, the impact of this difference in specs will have will only get bigger.

 

[Montresor]

But what about ps4 fan who want better graphic?

Did you read his post? He said the news bodes well for XB1 fans who will be getting multiplatform titles. Why should an XB1 fan be concerned with a PS4 fan that wants better graphics?

To answer your question - the PS4 fan doesn't need to worry. PS4 multiplats will be better performing versions all gen long.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

That delta is only going to decrease if developers intentionally gimp the PS4 versions of their games. And there's really no indication that they plan on doing that. Games nowadays are being built on high end PC's and ported down to consoles, so there'd be no reason for them to continue to scale the PS4 versions back to a point where the Xbox One is within distance of it.

 

[Artorias]

Yes, I'm sure the XB1 hardware will evolve over time and eventually catch up. Because clouds.

 

[beast786]

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

 

[EventHorizon]

Xbox is already out in the field. It's too late to improve the hardware specs. You can make it cheaper, you can't make it faster.

Actually I have this crazy theory that MS will do just that. They'll come out with an improved SKU that has more hardware capabilities. Devs will be required to support both SKUs, but that shouldn't be hard since the new SKU will have a similar architecture just better specs. Games on the new SKU would be able to run at greater resolution and image quality, better FPS, and/or support VR.

It'll be just like PC development now except with only two configurations to target. In fact I expect Sony to do the same. I think the industry has now standardised on X86 design so all future releases will simply improve on that architecture. Backwards compatibility will be a given.

 

[RulkezX]

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

Not as games continue to look better and add more bells and whistles.

If 1080p/30 on X1 is the base then it will always run a lot better on PS4 .

If the base is xxxxp/yyfps on PS4 then comprimises will be getting made on X1 to either match the res/ps ( cut effects) or match IQ ( cut the fps/res)

 

[Respawn]

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

I don't think so but to each their own eh.

 

[jelly]

Forza cut a lot of corners to hit 1080p/60fps.

Can't wait to hear Greenwald spin the lack of different weather or night time racing for the whole generation. The thesaurus will be on fire.

 

[Hoo-doo]

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

Doubt it. Sony will keep improving their tools just as Microsoft will be improving theirs.

PS3 was hamstrung by it's architecture the entirity of it's generation. Sure some devs were amazingly proficient with it, but the ease of use of the xBox 360 architecture created an inherent performance gap in multiplats throughout the generation.

 

[ethomaz]

They can release more Cloud eSRAM.

 

[Eiolon]

Sometimes I wish Sony would have priced the PS4 at $499 to match Xbone, but included more horsepower to compensate and make it more obvious that it was more powerful. Then we wouldnt have to deal with the comparison.

 

[Darksol]

I wish these talking heads would put up or shut up. Want me to believe that Xbox One is just as powerful and will close the gap? Put out something that proves it. Until then, I'll just assume you're talking shit and deceiving the feeble-minded.

 

[Slashlen]

Things like this always make me wonder why 1080p is so important to some people. I would rather have a lot of bells and whistles at 720p than empty 1080p. If you can get both that's wonderful and to be preferred. However, if you can't then just make it pretty... then again I also like retro pixel graphics, so people tend to shoot down my dismissal of 1080p here..

1080p is a simple bullet point. You don't have to get into the gritty details of rendering to understand that 1080p > 720p in a vacuum. I agree that bells and whistles at a lower resolution can be better, but people will focus on the easy-to-read numbers like resolution and framerate.

 

[ElTorro]

I am so looking forward to how this discussion will evolve after the release of Halo 5...

I'd put my money on 720p/60fps.

 

[Ricky_R]

Actually I have this crazy theory that MS will do just that. They'll come out with an improved SKU that has more hardware capabilities. Devs will be required to support both SKUs, but that shouldn't be hard since the new SKU will have a similar architecture just better specs. Games on the new SKU would be able to run at greater resolution and image quality, better FPS, and/or support VR.

It'll be just like PC development now except with only two configurations to target. In fact I expect Sony to do the same. I think the industry has now standardised on X86 design so all future releases will simply improve on that architecture. Backwards compatibility will be a given.

I know MS is a pioneer in many shitty things, but I really doubt they will be with this.

 

[Scottiths]

Detail my friend. Especially in a sniper game where you have to look far into the map.

Excellent point, I hadn't thought of that. I have noticed it's harder to see into the distance in things like cod. Never attributed it to resolution though. My point remains despite that though. In a racing game where you never see too far (or seeing distant detail isn't really important to gameplay) would it not be better to try to max the effects that players will notice (like lots of particles in a nearby fire or explosion)?

 

[beast786]

Sometimes I wish Sony would have priced the PS4 at $499 to match Xbone, but included more horsepower to compensate and make it more obvious that it was more powerful. Then we wouldnt have to deal with the comparison.

720----1080p

Is already not obvious ?


30fps --------60fps


Is already not obvious?

 

[Kysen]

Actually I have this crazy theory that MS will do just that.

This year would be the best time to do it as well. The fewer boxes in the wild the better. How many still game on their launch 360s? Heck my model doesn't even have HDMI.

 

[Disaster Nebraska]

Here's the thing: Sony has a track-record of squeezing power out of hardware. Microsoft's studios do not. While I'm sure Microsoft will release better toolsets (just like more internal studios are "in the plans" and more 1st party exclusives are "in the plans" etc) so will Sony. And you know what? Based on the PS3 vs 360, Sony proved they have the development talent - over and over again - to push their hardware, even to the point of overcoming very real disadvantages (360 RAM vs PS3 RAM; 360 GPU vs PS3 GPU).

Does Microsoft have this same talent? I dunno. Maybe, but they haven't proven it yet. The last proof I saw was Halo 4 and that was mostly due to Corrinne Yu, who now works for ND.

 

[LoveCake]

The wii-u specs in this post are in-accurate.

I know, they are the ones on Wiki.

My point is that devs can do all the tweaking & optimisation they want to but if the hardware is just better on one system than the other, the more powerful device will always perform better, while devs are tweaking & optimising tools & code to catch up to the PS4 the same thing will be going on with the PS4 because they will be tweaking & optimising the tools & codes to get the best out of the hardware.

Everyone was saying that the WiiU's eDRAM would be able to make up for the lack of DDR RAM but it cannot just like the X1's eSRAM cannot make up the difference between GDDR3 & GDDR5.

 

[TAS]

Damage control 101 boys

 

[RulkezX]

This year would be the best time to do it as well. The fewer boxes in the wild the better. How many still game on their launch 360s? Heck my model doesn't even have HDMI.

I'd wager not many at all, RROD says hi.

 

[jelly]

Actually I have this crazy theory that MS will do just that. They'll come out with an improved SKU that has more hardware capabilities. Devs will be required to support both SKUs, but that shouldn't be hard since the new SKU will have a similar architecture just better specs. Games on the new SKU would be able to run at greater resolution and image quality, better FPS, and/or support VR.

It'll be just like PC development now except with only two configurations to target. In fact I expect Sony to do the same. I think the industry has now standardised on X86 design so all future releases will simply improve on that architecture. Backwards compatibility will be a given.

While I think backwards compatibility is an easy given going forward I think Sony and MS would rather cost reduce and make more profit on the same hardware than offer better specs sooner rather than a generation later.

 

[Brohan]

No. Optimization. If the target is 1080p at 30fps. Once the PS4 version has got there. They can spend the rest of time optimising on Xbox One to get as close to that target as possible.

This bodes will for future multi-platform titles. Hopefully the performance gap between both next gen platforms will diminish. At least Xbox One fans will get to enjoy 1080p titles.

Why assume devs will spend less time on the PS4 version just because it might be easier to hit a certain target on the PS4.. i mean a good dev would want their game to shine right? Trying to get most out of both systems.

The idea that once they hit 1080p 30fps on ps4 they will go and put extra time into the xbox one version to try and get the same results sounds pretty fucking stupid to me and it would definitely make me lose respect for said developers.

 

[Cave Johnson]

So, according to this developer, the X1 has access to the "Hyperbolic Time Chamber", to close the power gap right?


I don't care if these so-called developers have access to both devkits, the fact that they're deliberately trying to downplay our intelligence while acting as if they were neutral makes me more resentful of their attitude. If this is the kind of mindset they're espousing, I wonder how it translates to their game development?

That being said, since the gap will clearly be "closer" once the next SDK rolls in does this mean they're going to stop working on the PS4 until visual parity is achieved? If they want to be PC, I'd suggest they stop trying to start flamewars just for the sake of publicity, it's immature and childish and only invites disdain to them.

 

[chadskin]

I can't wait for hUMA.

 

[TeRey09]

I actually agree and accepted that it's weaker awhile back. I want an Xbone for the features and games first and foremost. As that is what sells me on a system. But power-wise, it is still a next generation console over it's predecessor and that is enough for me. It will still have some gorgeous games that play great.

Preach.

 

[CurlySaysX]

The XboxOne will no doubt catch up to what the PS4 is capable of right now, but it will not be able to keep up.

 

[Hoo-doo]

Why assume devs will spend less time on the PS4 version just because it might be easier to hit a certain target on the PS4.. i mean a good dev would want their game to shine right? Trying to get most out of both systems.

The idea that once they hit 1080p 30fps on ps4 they will go and put extra time into the xbox one version to try and get the same results sounds pretty fucking stupid to me and it would definitely make me lose respect for said developers.

Right, that's why we saw all devs work so hard on those PS3 multiplats last generation. To really make them shine.

That's not going to happen. You pick a lead platform, and last-generation it was the x360 in nearly every case.
Hopefully, with the sales and the power advantage, the majority of devs pick the PS4 as the lead system this generation.

Edit: i read your post wrong, I actually agree with you completely.

 

[fastford58]

I am so looking forward to how this discussion will evolve after the release of Halo 5...

I'd put my money on 720p/60fps.

I'm willing to bet 720p/sometimes hitting 60, no lower than 30, with a lot of fluctuation. I highly doubt a locked 60. Akin to KZSF.

 

[Bradf50]

No. Optimization. If the target is 1080p at 30fps. Once the PS4 version has got there. They can spend the rest of time optimising on Xbox One to get as close to that target as possible.

This bodes will for future multi-platform titles. Hopefully the performance gap between both next gen platforms will diminish. At least Xbox One fans will get to enjoy 1080p titles.

I don't usually get involved in hardware threads, but I do tend to read them quite a bit. I own both machines and hopefully that doesn't happen. The Xbox One deserves to be behind as it's the weaker of the two, and noticeably so. The PS4 deserves to be where it is as it's the better designed machine and it seems to be paying off. Yeah I hope the Xbox One gets more 1080p titles, and I hope the visuals will improve somewhat. If your on this forum and bought an Xbox One, you knew that it was weaker and would get the worse looking multi-plat games. So as was said by Adam Orth "Deal with it". They are both going to get awesome exclusives and I'm looking forward to it.

 

[TheRealTalker]

Doesn't make any sense.

How would a 7770 ever catch up to a 7850?

How would 32MB of eSRAM ever catch up to 8GB GDDR5?

It wont. Just look how Forza achieved 1080p60. Same will continue to happen with other Xbone games, assets will have to be downsized.

No ammount of SDK tweaking will speed up weaker Xbone GPU or enable developers to use more than 32MB of fast framebuffer.

Thought the same thing


I also said COD could likely be 720p because of this... The next one will likely be 1080p if they use the same old assets


But games that are more graphically intense will STILL go for the sub 1080p option

 

[michaelius]

So i guess microoft started paying for graphic parity already because apart from crippling ps4 version performance I can't imagine what kind of magic can negate 50% faster GPU.

 

[pompidu]

Disastrous anisotropic filtering
http://abload.de/img/ao067c8i.png

Insane track asset reduction
http://i.imgur.com/semvdyJ.jpg

Mortal Kombat crowd
http://abload.de/img/dat_3d_crowd_1akezo.jpg

Total reliance on ineffective shader-based AA techniques [aggressively semi-hidden by blur and dof]
http://abload.de/img/1920x-1g4enh.jpg

The screenshots hurt my eyes. This cannot be from the final game right?

 

[Chobel]

I'm sure the PS4 versions will for the most part have the better performance.
But the huge performance delta we are currently seeing with multi-platform games will reduce significantly.

Still with the wishful thinking, I thought you're at acceptance stage.

 

[benny_a]

Still with the wishful thinking, I thought you're at acceptance stage.

Months and months of denial in every thread about this topic leaves a mark.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Wrong thread!

 

[Cimeas]

Right, that's why we saw all devs work so hard on those PS3 multiplats last generation. To really make them shine.

That's not going to happen. You pick a lead platform, and last-generation it was the x360 in nearly every case.
Hopefully, with the sales and the power advantage, the majority of devs pick the PS4 as the lead system this generation.

Edit: i read your post wrong, I actually agree with you completely.

Actually, I'd wage most devs pick PC as the lead system this generation.

 

[CoG]

1080p is a simple bullet point. You don't have to get into the gritty details of rendering to understand that 1080p > 720p in a vacuum. I agree that bells and whistles at a lower resolution can be better, but people will focus on the easy-to-read numbers like resolution and framerate.

It's not a bullet point. 1080p as been the de facto HD standard for years. Would you buy a TV or Blu-ray player that didn't output 1080p? The PC I had five years ago was rendering at 1080p 30 - 60fps. There's no excuse why this generation of game console cannot render at the native resolution of today's sets. Sub 1080p upscaled looks pillowy.

 

[neptunes]

The hardware is the hardware & everything has a maximum capacity.



WiiU;
CPU - Tri-Core IBM PowerPC "Espresso" @ 1.24 GHz 3 MB L2 cache
GPU - AMD Radeon "Latte" 320 shaders @ 550 MHz (0.35 TFLOP/s) Fillrates: 4.4 Gpixel/s, 8.8 Gtexel/s
RAM - 2 GB DDR3 RAM @ 1600 MHz (12.8 GB/s) (1 GB available for games)34 MB eDRAM @ 550 MHz

PS4;
CPU - Octa-Core (2 quad-core modules) AMD x86-64 "Jaguar"-based Shared 4 MB L2 cache (Cores 0-3: 2 MB, Cores 4-7: 2 MB
GPU - AMD Radeon "Liverpool" 1152 shaders @ 800 MHz (1.84 TFLOP/s) Fillrates: 25.6 Gpixel/s, 57.6 Gtexel/s
RAM - 8 GB GDDR5 RAM @ 5500 MHz (176.0 GB/s) 256 MB (2 Gb) DDR3 RAM (for background tasks)

XboxOne;
CPU - Octa-Core (2 quad-core modules) AMD x86-64 "Jaguar"-based @ 1.75 GHz Shared 4 MB L2 cache (Cores 0-3: 2 MB, Cores 4-7: 2 MB)
GPU - AMD Radeon 768 shaders @ 853 MHz (1.31 TFLOP/s) Fillrates: 13.6 Gpixel/s, 40.9 Gtexel/s
RAM - 8 GB DDR3 RAM @ 2133 MHz (68.3 GB/s) (5 GB available for games) 32 MB eSRAM (on-die)

The XboxOne is a 10 but the PS4 is a 11.

I thought PS4 devs only had access to 5.5 GBs?

 

[XBOX WON]

“Yeah, I mean that’s probably why, well at least on paper, it’s a bit more powerful. But I think the Xbox One is gonna catch up.

welp , i believe this guy ( he is a developer after all ) .