OK State Basketball player Marcus Smart shoves fan

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dorkimoe said:
Sorry but if someone called me something homosexualy related I would have laughed. These players are supposed to have thicker skin. And if it was the n word than its a little more understandable. But I don't see anyone yelling that in public like that. Sorry so I wouldn't believe him


Edit. Apparently the same fan has been doing it for years. If that's the case he needs to be moved. Can't constantly put a trouble maker that close.
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Yelling?

breh, people plan out and coordinate their racism before games now

http://www.balleralert.com/profiles...acist-costumes-versus-hbcu?xg_source=activity
enanogrande said:
How does the system being broken at all excuse Smart? You seem to be ignoring the fact that Smart didn't yell insults back, he physically assaulted the man, so yeah I can easily see how someone would see Smart's actions as being worse than the fans.

But even taking that into account, I fail to see anyone using Smart's actions to free the fan of any blame. They both stepped to far, and both should be reprimanded for their actions. The fan's actions don't automatically become okay once Smart shoved him, but neither does Smart shoving him become acceptable because of what the fan said.

Smart does have to take the high road. If he can't, then he's not cut out to be a professional athlete.

The fact that I criticize Smart in no way makes me an apologist for the fan, it means I hold Smart to a standard all athletes should be held to - that of a professional sportsman, not of a random fan in the stands. And since you obviously do not, I would say it is in fact your attitude that is 'what's wrong with the environment as a whole'.
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This is what kills me.

Just because someone puts on a jersey, they have to sit their and take everything you throw at them? That's not what they sign up for.
 
You know how it works. Fans in all sports throw all sorts of verbal bullshit at players, but the players cannot touch the fans. Crying about how he shouldn't have to put up with it isn't going to cut it. The players cannot touch the fans. There is no justification.
 
Machine said:
This feels like you are projecting your own personal perspective onto him. Smart is an elite basketball player who has been catered to for years. Despite these recent problems, some team is likely to take a chance on him and he will potentially end up making more money by the time he is 25 than many of us will make in a lifetime. It seems unlikely he has the same built-up issues and resentments as a normal guy. Besides, it's not just sports figures that face this type of abuse and harassment. Any public figure in sports, entertainment, politics, or whatever faces this shit. The more high-profile they are, they more they are subjected to it. Doesn't make it right but it's they way things are.
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Yeah he's gonna be rich so his feelings dont matter. I mean, how bad does he really have it?
 
DominoKid said:
Yeah he's gonna be rich so his feelings dont matter. I mean, how bad does he really have it?
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Nnobody worries about my feelings in my daily life and I think that's true for most people. Why are his feelings more important than mine or yours? Because he is a basketball player?
 
Machine said:
His age is the most irrelevant thing in all of this. Giving him any sort of pass because of his age is bullshit. A twenty year old is an adult and needs to act like one. (That applies to the heckler too)
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Eh?
It seems unlikely he has the same built-up issues and resentments as a normal guy. Besides, it's not just sports figures that face this type of abuse and harassment. Any public figure in sports, entertainment, politics, or whatever faces this shit.
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Okay, so going by this

He's going to be rich. So all that other shit means nothing.
He's a public figure (doesn't matter what kind), so there's no reason why he can't stone face through it all like Obama.
He's going to get this kind of abuse anyways, so fuck it.

There's a lot wrong with this.
 
LyleLanley said:
Tens of millions? Are you basing that off of potential endorsements?
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Anthony Bennett got 23 million from going one overall. Shane Larkin got less than 4 million and a team option for going 18th for reference. So yeah could be up to tens of millions. Depends how hard he freefalls
 
He'll be fine. Everybody's fine.

I hate that this shit happens. Fans are assholes. Players are arrogant hot dogs. The verbal abuse. The trash talking. The taunting from both sides. It's all bullshit. Nobody wants to just watch and the play the sport without all the extra nonsense. It makes sports, both fans and athletes, look like a bunch of assholes.
 
DY_nasty said:
This is what kills me.

Just because someone puts on a jersey, they have to sit their and take everything you throw at them? That's not what they sign up for.
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It is, unfortunately.

Listen, I would love for it to not be this way. Like I said, it's fucked up that the Fan will probably go unpunished, has probably done so for years while doing the same thing, and even if he does get punished it's only because Smart shoved him and brought attention to this incident.

But you have to understand that this is what they signed up for. We can debate wether athletes should be role models all day, or wether they deserve the attention they get. But the fact of the matter is that they do, and have to act like it. It's part and parcel of being an entertainer - because professional sportsmen are as much entertainers as they are athletes. It's what makes them generate so much revenue and in turn afford them the multi million dollar salaries they have.

If all Smart signed up for was playing Basketball, he should have stayed on the playground. Instead, he signed up for a career, and has to be held to higher standards. That's just the way it is.
 
enanogrande said:
It is, unfortunately.

Listen, I would love for it to not be this way. Like I said, it's fucked up that the Fan will probably go unpunished, has probably done so for years while doing the same thing, and even if he does get punished it's only because Smart shoved him and brought attention to this incident.

But you have to understand that this is what they signed up for. We can debate wether athletes should be role models all day, or wether they deserve the attention they get. But the fact of the matter is that they do, and have to act like it. It's part and parcel of being an entertainer - because professional sportsmen are as much entertainers as they are athletes. It's what makes them generate so much revenue and in turn afford them the multi million dollar salaries they have.

If all Smart signed up for was playing Basketball, he should have stayed on the playground. Instead, he signed up for a career, and has to be held to higher standards. That's just the way it is.
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No. It is not what they signed up for. Hell, you can't even get away with saying the type of shit typically heard at a college game at your local strip club.

The higher standards argument needs to be applied to the institution as a whole. But that's how the NCAA lives. Nobody ever bothers to talk about the shit show that they happily condone for the betterment of academics but this kind of thing happens all the time. Blame the student athlete for everything though.
 
Parch said:
You know how it works. Fans in all sports throw all sorts of verbal bullshit at players, but the players cannot touch the fans. Crying about how he shouldn't have to put up with it isn't going to cut it. The players cannot touch the fans. There is no justification.
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Right, there is no justification for thinking you can hurl insults with impunity.
 
Machine said:
Nnobody worries about my feelings in my daily life and I think that's true for most people. Why are his feelings more important than mine or yours? Because he is a basketball player?
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I never said his feelings are more important. Youre the one denying people their humanity based on career path. On some "dance for us, take the abuse and fuck how you feel" shit.
 
DY_nasty said:
No. It is not what they signed up for. Hell, you can't even get away with saying the type of shit typically heard at a college game at your local strip club. .
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If you want to start a "dialogue" on how terrible it is that players face verbal abuse, be sure to include the officials as well. I've attended a lot of college and professional football, basketball, baseball, and hockey games in my life and refs/umps face far more abuse than any of the players yet somehow they manage to cope with it. Hell, some of the smack talk between players is worse than anything directed at them from the stands.
 
DY_nasty said:
No. It is not what they signed up for. Hell, you can't even get away with saying the type of shit typically heard at a college game at your local strip club.

The higher standards argument needs to be applied to the institution as a whole. But that's how the NCAA lives. Nobody ever bothers to talk about the shit show that they happily condone for the betterment of academics but this kind of thing happens all the time. Blame the student athlete for everything though.
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This is going in circles. The NCAA being a shitshow and having the blame for allowing fans to be dicks does not in any way mean that we should be 'against putting more than a fraction of the blame' on Smart like you said, which is my argument with you in the first place. It means the NCAA shares the blame for the situation, but it doesn't in any way excuse Smart's actions. If you see this as me 'blaming the student athlete for everything', then I don't know what more I can say.
 
Machine said:
If you want to start a "dialogue" on how terrible it is that players face verbal abuse, be sure to include the officials as well. I've attended a lot of college and professional football, basketball, baseball, and hockey games in my life and refs/umps face far more abuse than any of the players yet somehow they manage to cope with it. Hell, some of the smack talk between players is worse than anything directed at them from the stands.
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Why do you have such a hard time swallowing the fact that it doesn't matter how much money someone (potentially) makes when it comes to being berated in this manner? This is 4th time you've responded with some passive or indirect shit.

But anyways... Yes, refs get shit from the stands too. Unlike players, they're actually required to take a compliment of third party classes that emphasize distancing themselves from the arena tempo and how to actually deal with that sort of thing. Referees also have the benefit of taking advantage of stoppages to handle such situations while players do not.

Also, player/player situations are, unlike most fan problems, handled using a standard that has been clearly put in place and enforced.

There's almost nothing stopping fans from doing whatever the hell they want short of rushing the court.
 
DominoKid said:
I never said his feelings are more important. Youre the one denying people their humanity based on career path. On some "dance for us, take the abuse and fuck how you feel" shit.
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Ignoring the fact that you seem to be intentionally misreading what I said to fit your narrative, I will state that "dance for us, take the abuse and fuck how you feel" applies to pretty much every employment situation and is not exclusive to the entertainment field. Read one of the retail employment threads that have popped up on NeoGAF over the years and look at the amount of shit people in customer service have to deal with. Yet somehow I don't see 20 year old clerks at Target shoving abusive customers.
 
I find it strange that for a forum where so many people go on and on about victim blaming, it seems to become "won't someone think of the poor perpetrator?" whenever the victim decides to retaliate in any way.

"He's should behave like a professional. He's not trained to be that way. Why are you people always playing the race card?"

"The dad should have stayed calm and called the police instead of attacking the guy who was in the middle of molesting his daughter."

"They shouldn't have attacked that guy. He was only harmlessly masturbating while peeking outside of their sister's window."

"She shouldn't have posted that conversation of the poor journalist making graphic sexual proposals to her. Now he's not gonna have a job and his life is ruined."
 
Devolution said:
Pejoratives like that make the calmest people I know go from 0-60

a62eunq.png
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Last person that called me that as an insult got punched in the face.

That was years and years ago but it's hard to remain calm when someone wants to drag your humanity back to 1842.
 
enanogrande said:
If all Smart signed up for was playing Basketball, he should have stayed on the playground. Instead, he signed up for a career, and has to be held to higher standards. That's just the way it is.
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This is straight up fucking dumb. He wants to play a pro sport so he should have to endure a bunch of assholes yelling at him? What kind of fucking logic is that? Do people yell offensive shit at you all day during your job? How about you shift the focus on the real assholes yelling racial slurs and offensive things at people doing nothing more then playing a damn game and stop blaming the person getting yelled at for no reason. Because that asshole in the stands is sure as hell setting a worse example for society then the guy who shoves him to stand up for himself.
Machine said:
Ignoring the fact that you seem to be intentionally misreading what I said to fit your narrative, I will state that "dance for us, take the abuse and fuck how you feel" applies to pretty much every employment situation and is not exclusive to the entertainment field. Read one of the retail employment threads that have popped up on NeoGAF over the years and look at the amount of shit people in customer service have to deal with. Yet somehow I don't see 20 year old clerks at Target shoving abusive customers.
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Because at Target the asshole yelling shit at him would be escorted out of the store, at a sporting event it's supported behavior. You say all this shit like it should just be swept under the rug that people treat other people like shit. The whole point is that these assholes shouldn't be yelling at, stalking or being rude to these celebrities and retail people in the first place. But your solution is just to say "It comes with the territory." Which is never going to make a better situation for any of these people. It's just going to perpetuate shitty behavior.
 
Honestly, I kind of wish he would've knocked that fan out. Fans need to be held at the same standards as players. Do people think if he turned around nicely & told the refs what the fan said they would have tossed him? I doubt it.

You can say it was a dumb move but in the heat of the moment no one knows what they would have done in that situation, but if it was me I prob wouldve pushed that racist fuck too. Embarrassing & sad situation.
 
I will never understand how people expect someone to be treated like shit in public and just take it.

You're also messing with an athlete who has been hyped all game long. It's just playing with fire and I don't blame Smart. The fans think they just can disrespect athletes like that? Fuck them.
 
DY_nasty said:
There's almost nothing stopping fans from doing whatever the hell they want short of rushing the court.
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What's your solution? Is there anything to do other than removing the heckler from the game and banning them from future events? How do you determine exactly when the heckling rises to a punishable level? Do you have a list of forbidden words? If a player taunts another player with one of the forbidden words, does he get punished the same way as a fan?
 
enanogrande said:
It is, unfortunately.

Listen, I would love for it to not be this way. Like I said, it's fucked up that the Fan will probably go unpunished, has probably done so for years while doing the same thing, and even if he does get punished it's only because Smart shoved him and brought attention to this incident.

But you have to understand that this is what they signed up for. We can debate wether athletes should be role models all day, or wether they deserve the attention they get. But the fact of the matter is that they do, and have to act like it. It's part and parcel of being an entertainer - because professional sportsmen are as much entertainers as they are athletes. It's what makes them generate so much revenue and in turn afford them the multi million dollar salaries they have.

If all Smart signed up for was playing Basketball, he should have stayed on the playground. Instead, he signed up for a career, and has to be held to higher standards. That's just the way it is.
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lol this is some complete nonsense. You could use the exact justification during the integration days when racist epitaphs were being thrown left and right in order to harass black players off of teams. You should never be forced to sign a contract stating you should take all sorts of verbal abuse because you got the "privilege" to generate millions of dollars for a school in exchange for a scholarship. The fan didn't buy himself the right to abuse students because of the paltry 20 dollars he paid at the door.

He kept his composure just fine, he didn't beat the shit out of the fan. What he did was nothing.
 
cashman said:
Nice. Hopefully he is suspended in time for the Texas game.
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I wouldn't worry about it. You guys were gonna beat us regardless (in case you didn't notice, we just lost to Tech with him), and I'm sure he'll be suspended (honestly, wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't finish out the season and just leaves to focus on preparing for the draft).
 
Zen_Arcade said:
This is straight up fucking dumb. He wants to play a pro sport so he should have to endure a bunch of assholes yelling at him? What kind of fucking logic is that? Do people yell offensive shit at you all day during your job? How about you shift the focus on the real assholes yelling racial slurs and offensive things at people doing nothing more then playing a damn game and stop blaming the person getting yelled at for no reason. Because that asshole in the stands is sure as hell setting a worse example for society then the guy who shoves him to stand up for himself.
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Go ahead, ignore all the other posts I've made on the subject where I make it quite clear that action should be taken to stop this and that my problem is with the way Smart reacted to this. Because not kicking a guy's ass (even when he deserves it) in some way means he should take their shit.

Do continue changing what I'm saying though, from "Smart shouldn't be excused for his actions" (what I'm actually saying) to "What the fan said is fine because the big bad guy shoved him", which is what you're accusing me of saying.

Tallshortman said:
lol this is some complete nonsense. You could use the exact justification during the integration days when racist epitaphs were being thrown left and right in order to harass black players off of teams. You should never be forced to sign a contract stating you should take all sorts of verbal abuse because you got the "privilege" to generate millions of dollars for a school in exchange for a scholarship. The fan didn't buy himself the right to abuse students because of the paltry 20 dollars he paid at the door.

He kept his composure just fine, he didn't beat the shit out of the fan. What he did was nothing.
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The above applies to you as well, understand the context of the discussion before comparing my comments to justifying racism.
 
Machine said:
What's your solution? Is there anything to do other than removing the heckler from the game and banning them from future events? How do you determine exactly when the heckling rises to a punishable level? Do you have a list of forbidden words? If a player taunts another player with one of the forbidden words, does he get punished the same way as a fan?
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Again. Player/Player interactions already have a standard in place and it's rules are enforced at an acceptable level.

But why are you spitting some rapid fire questioning like this is a complicated problem? This isn't just tolerated behavior, this is supported and encouraged in some areas. Security in the stands now has a very small function in that they only stop obvious physical interactions. They do nothing when it comes to keeping fans from displaying vulgar homemade signs or even preventing student sections from chanting outlandish shit as a whole. The leeway that institutions give fans when it comes to events clearly shows that they just don't care at all - and will allow even more shit to go down if you call in advance and order tickets in bulk.
 
entrement said:
I will never understand how people expect someone to be treated like shit in public and just take it.
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Verbal abuse does not justify physical abuse.

It doesn't matter where, who, or the circumstances. Physical abuse is against the law, and you're not going to win a justification argument. Go ahead and counter that verbal abuse with your own, but as soon as you punch a prick in the face, no matter how justified you think it is, you're not going to win legal sympathy.
 
Some naive motherfuckers in this thread. You think people don't yell racial slurs at players? Are you some bafoon that announced racism is over because Obama was elected or something?

Hell Ive heard that shit at highschool games in liberal ass new england. If you think that shit doesn't happen at a college game in Texas you're blind.

There's a reason these cowardly fucks only say it in huge crowds and not behind the team bus.
 
Parch said:
Verbal abuse does not justify physical abuse.
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I like how shoving a guy who's bigger than him once has been deemed "physical abuse," an "attack," and "assault" in this thread. Simmer down.

It doesn't matter where, who, or the circumstances. Physical abuse is against the law, and you're not going to win a justification argument. Go ahead and counter that verbal abuse with your own, but as soon as punch a prick in the face, no matter how justified you think it is, you're not going to win legal sympathy.
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He shoved him, he didn't punch anyone.
 
enanogrande said:
Go ahead, ignore all the other posts I've made on the subject where I make it quite clear that action should be taken to stop this and that my problem is with the way Smart reacted to this. Because not kicking a guy's ass (even when he deserves it) in some way means he should take their shit.
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Smart's reaction was exactly what it should have been. The fan saw the situation and realizes he can say whatever he wants and that no matter what the player is going to come out looking like the bad guy. It was either sit there and take it and yell something back and look like the bad guy or showing the guy that he shouldn't be talking that way, shoving him and come out looking like a bad guy.

Either way Smart was going to come out of it on the less favorable end, he might as well have made a point. And hell, maybe all these confrontations will actually amount to something and leagues will make better efforts at throwing out asshole fans who want to hurl personal insults at people they don't know. Because they sure as hell don't do anything that works now.

Not to mention shoving someone isn't "Kicking their ass". Jesus Christ, you're acting like he held him down and beat him. You're also ignoring the fact that the only way to get some people to stop giving you shit is to hit them, especially ones that see opportunities that favor them and see themselves as untouchable.
 
It seems like the fan says "I'm sorry about that" right before he got shoved.

If I was a Texas Tech player, I would definitely want to know what that fan said, because if he dropped the n-word than something should be done, regardless of what happens to Smart.
 
enanogrande said:
Go ahead, ignore all the other posts I've made on the subject where I make it quite clear that action should be taken to stop this and that my problem is with the way Smart reacted to this. Because not kicking a guy's ass (even when he deserves it) in some way means he should take their shit.

Do continue changing what I'm saying though, from "Smart shouldn't be excused for his actions" (what I'm actually saying) to "What the fan said is fine because the big bad guy shoved him", which is what you're accusing me of saying.



The above applies to you as well, understand the context of the discussion before comparing my comments to justifying racism.
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You're saying he should act more professional in the face of racism and verbal abuse because he "signed up" for big time basketball. That's your justification for him not being excused, what other context are you trying to pull out? I understood the context just fine, you should probably argue the point I made instead. There is a line that can be crossed when you get too personal in attacks as a fan and there is no unspoken contract that players sign up for to ignore that level of abuse. What he did was barely anything.
 
Zen_Arcade said:
Smart's reaction was exactly what it should have been. The fan saw the situation and realizes he can say whatever he wants and that no matter what the player is going to come out looking like the bad guy. It was either sit there and take it and yell something back and look like the bad guy or showing the guy that he shouldn't be talking that way, shoving him and come out looking like a bad guy.

Either way Smart was going to come out of it on the less favorable end, he might as well have made a point. And hell, maybe all these confrontations will actually amount to something and leagues will make better efforts at throwing out asshole fans who want to hurl personal insults at people they don't know. Because they sure as hell don't do anything that works now.

Not to mention shoving someone isn't "Kicking their ass". Jesus Christ, you're acting like he held him down and beat him. You're also ignoring the fact that the only way to get some people to stop giving you shit is to hit them, especially ones that see opportunities that favor them and see themselves as untouchable.
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Or, he could do like I said in my first post here, and take his problems with the issue elsewhere. Either with the NCAA or, if they do nothing about it like has been acknowledged repeatedly in the thread, by using the media as a tool.

But let's keep acting like physical violence is the way to go in this situation.

And no, he didn't kick his ass, even though he certainly deserved. The shove is quite mild actually. But physical contact is physical contact.
 
LuchaShaq said:
Legally it doesn't but morally we as a society need to learn that fucks like that need a beat down and a pretty severe one at that.
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Damn right he does. I've smacked a few idiots for less. I don't recommend doing it in front of cameras on national TV.

Some assholes deserve it, but it doesn't change the legalities. Douchebags get away with running their mouth all the time, and as soon as you touch them then it's boo hoo, they're suddenly the victims.

It's not right, but it's the way it is. Legally, verbal abuse does not justify physical abuse. Like it or not, that's the way it is. In this case it's just a push and no big deal, but there's no way the player is going to win the justification argument.
 
If you look at the broadcast, when smart gets closer to the fan it looks like the fan is saying "sorry about that". At least that's the speculation going on in some sports sites
 
ito007 said:
If you look at the broadcast, when smart gets closer to the fan it looks like the fan is saying "sorry about that". At least that's the speculation going on in some sports sites
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You're right.. it kind of does look like he's saying sorry about that
That's strange because from the video that seems to be when Smart decides to push him
 
It literally doesn't matter what you say. A player shouldn't push anyone like that. He can walk over and get security to escort them out.

People who attend college basketball games can say some insane shit. Never warrants any physical engagement.

I've heard terrible things at the few college basketball games I attended. Hell, my roommate was an antler.

Some idiot could have said "Your crackhead n_____ mom should have aborted you with her pipe." If you can't keep your composure, you should learn to. You're on the tv now playing with the big boys. Tune the morons out.

And people above me are saying we as a society have a moral responsibility to beat people for saying stupid shit? Come on. That's not the way to handle these people.
 
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